To Spank Or Not To Spank?

[pzarquon]

The dilemma of spanking (http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2005/Mar/08/il/il01a.html)
Fewer than half the respondents to an American Demographics survey earlier this year said spanking was acceptable punishment. In the past, various studies have found up to 90 percent of parents spanked their children at least occasionally. But 70 percent of respondents to the American Demographics survey said that children's behavior today is worse than it was a decade ago, and that permissive parents are partly to blame.
Under what conditions, if any, is a swat to the okole (or elemu) justified?

[1stwahine]

I speak for myself. Not to Spank. Nobody deserves to be hit, especially a child. Children are inquisitive and active, their children. With LOVE, nurturing, guidance and a spiritual foundation...children will grow into productive and caring adults like the ones who reared them. Spanking is considered Child Abuse. Teach with Love, HUGS, Kisses and Rewards...no problem child! I never did spank my children and I could never think of spanking my grandson, Anotonio or any of my future grandchildren. There's no choice for me...my vote, NOT TO SPANK! :D

[Kilinahe]

I said I'd never spank.

That changed REAL QUICK, the day Katie was feeling particularly defiant and darted into a crosswalk after I repeatedly told her to stop and wait for me to catch up to her.

Thank God she had the walk light.

But right then, I knew her life might have been in danger and I saw no other way to communicate to her how serious the situation was. so I swatted her on the butt. She never did it again.

Yes, I spank, but only when they do something dangerous and verbal warnings go unheeded. I really feel like I don't have any choice in that case.

[gcvt]

I was a less-than-perfect little kid, got my fair share of spankings and I turned out fine. However, it was usually only when I deliberatly disobeyed orders or did something that put myself or someone else in danger...kinda like Kilinahe mentions.

What I don't get is when parents spank their children for things like crying, asking for a cookie...that kind of thing. So I guess I think it's okay in certain situations, but that it's often done too frequently and for the wrong reasons.

[alohabear]

The Bible says "Spare the rod...spoil the child."

[808blogger]

The Bible says "Spare the rod...spoil the child."
well i agree spare the rod but.....
"spoil the child" end up with a spoiled brat adult.....
I bet we can all identify adults that were spoiled at children.
Spoiling children is a bad thing. It never teaches them any sense of self discipline, tolerance or patience. The goal of raising a child is produce a well balanced HUMAN ADULT. that is not achieved by over indulgence. or "spoiling"

[craigwatanabe]

I never believed in that Dr. Spock mentality of sparing the rod and spoiling the child. His advice spawned an entire generation of 20-something year olds who feel they are the only generation that has experienced suffering (hmmm maybe spanking would have really given them something to suffer about).

Spanking can be appropriate if done right. One sting across the butt should send the message that you as a parent mean business. Two is getting your digs in, three times means you need anger management classes.

And the spanking should be done immediately after the incident, not when Daddy gets home hours later.

Yup we all said it: I got spanked and I still turned out alright. Then there's those who were spared the rod and look how they turned out: SPOILED ROTTEN.

So lets see if there's a direct correlation between those of us who got spanked and our political affilation. I got spanked and I turned out a Republican. :eek:

Next...

[1stwahine]

I never spanked my kids. Whenever they would do something wrong or be really naughty, I would give one of my looks which I still do to my grand neices and nephews. They didn't come out spoiled or rotten. They became US Soilders, productive, caring, young adults that I am proud of.

As for me? I had lickings with a leather belt. Became mean ( not now, I sweet) Was a Teenage Rupublican. Now, Registered Democrat who votes for not the party but for the individual. Who would love to go with a leather belt around Chinatown and whack whack all the EBT Alcoholic Druggies, Addicts, and lazy Bums!

Then spank all the Politicians, Policemen, and Community Leaders for ignoring the problems!

Hey, People! Don't forget the Pot Lock Picnic on April 2nd, Saturday @ Ala Moana Magic Island. Email me on private message for more information or ask Admin. Mahalo. Have a safe and wonderful weekend!

[kupomog]

I think my mom spanked me all of...one time when I was a kid. Because I was being an absolute brat and I deserved it. Spanking is something that I think all of my relatives do when they have to, and it works. I think some kids just need a spank, really. But not some full blown, beating-their-heads-into-the-ground thing. Just a swift little swat on their booty or arm and a verbal reprimand. I see so many kids on those lame talk shows that just walk all over their parents. It's disgusting. All these grown people crying about "I can't control my 3 year old, he doesn't listen, he breaks everything , he kicks me, and I can't stop him." I'd love to see them get a spanking.

[Mocha]

All suggested forms of "punishment" have been used by countless of parents, caregivers of kids. I used to wack my one son and it never did any good...I just got a sore hand. As I look back I was the frustrated parent taking out the frustration on my son. Knowing that now I think I'd have spanked less. :o

[prettyday]

my mom spanked a couple of times; I still have trouble forgiving her; but that's because there was more going on than 'stay away from the hot stove...'
HOWEVER!!! Bless her and my grandmaman I never met; she taught me "THE LOOK."
My husband still remarks, "take it easy," when someone is not right to him or so on, he says "Don't give them the 'Whole' Look, they'll wilt on the spot!"
"the look"
nothing like it. ...nnnnnoooooothing!!!

[kimo55]

my mom spanked a couple of times; I still have trouble forgiving her;
My mom and dad both spanked all us kids when we got outta line. and there was no forgiveness, cuz none needed. They did the best they could with the tools and knowledge they had. And I am none the worse for wear. And I love and accept and appreciate them and all they did for us in our upbringing. And I worked at Montessori years ago, and was very gentle with the keiki. (no violent tendencies were generated from occasional spanking from small keed time)

[prettyday]

My mom's anger stemmed from frustration...I do understand and support the spanking in so many instances...and being closer to animals than humans, how can I not understand the love that manifests itself in a cautionary smack!

[Miulang]

my mom spanked a couple of times; I still have trouble forgiving her; but that's because there was more going on than 'stay away from the hot stove...'
HOWEVER!!! Bless her and my grandmaman I never met; she taught me "THE LOOK."
My husband still remarks, "take it easy," when someone is not right to him or so on, he says "Don't give them the 'Whole' Look, they'll wilt on the spot!"
"the look"
nothing like it. ...nnnnnoooooothing!!!
In Hawai'i, the locals call "The Look" "da Stinkeye". If you give anybody da Stinkeye, dey going back off, for sure! ;)

Miulang

[pzarquon]

In Hawai'i, the locals call "The Look" "da Stinkeye". If you give anybody da Stinkeye, dey going back off, for sure!Well, except if dey stay lookin' fo' one beef, li'dat.

I don't think parents should smack their kids around, but there's a pretty big difference between an action taken out of concern and one taken out of anger. I got swatted with a shoehorn when I was a kid, but I know for damn sure I deserved it every time. Nothing was being "taken out" on me. I was being shown the right and true path. :p

Then again, I now have an odd aversion to the things, and don't have one in the house...

[makalika]

Whose parents didnt spank their kids? Humans are animals just like dogs. You smack your dog on the nose while they are young and they are trained with no need to punish them corporally anymore after the first month or so. Kids are the same. They learn authority and right/wrong when they are young through spanking when appropriate. Limit it to the bottom and we all know with common sense the difference between spank and beating. By the time your child is 7 you most likely wont ever have to spank em again. By that time they know who the boss is, and they are old enough to discipline with the spoken word and limitation of privileges.

[Miulang]

A "light pat on the 'okole" (where there is natural padding anyway) is waaaaay different than a bashing on the head or other body part. Shaking a child is also considered abuse.

The same adults who abuse kids by beating them or shaking them so violently that the kids suffer brain damage are probably also the ones who show road rage, too. They have an adult body with a childlike immaturity about how to deal with their frustration.

Miulang

[1stwahine]

Whose parents didnt spank their kids? Humans are animals just like dogs. You smack your dog on the nose while they are young and they are trained with no need to punish them corporally anymore after the first month or so. Kids are the same. They learn authority and right/wrong when they are young through spanking when appropriate. Limit it to the bottom and we all know with common sense the difference between spank and beating. By the time your child is 7 you most likely wont ever have to spank em again. By that time they know who the boss is, and they are old enough to discipline with the spoken word and limitation of privileges.

I'm a parent and I didn't spank my kids. I would raise my voice and give one stink eye that every local madda does and they would listen. No question asked or giving me problems. Then again, my late husband was the one who handled things if and only when it was needed without me around. Reason, anything that would make my kids cry, would make me cry too.

My newborn grandson will get the same upbringing from me as I gave to his mother. No spanking. Babies and children are precious and lttle angels.
K, i'm tired. not feeling good today too. i'll check back laters!

love, auntie lynn

[mel]

I say spank the auction spammer.

[craigwatanabe]

nah...spank the monkey and let's get our quarter's worth!!! :eek:

[tarzan]

I say spank, everyone needs it sometimes....

-Will :)

[Peshkwe]

I say spank, everyone needs it sometimes....

-Will :)


Huh???????

[Keith H.]

So lets see if there's a direct correlation between those of us who got spanked and our political affilation. I got spanked and I turned out a Republican. :eek:

Next...

Nope. My mom never failed to spank me whenever my behavior crossed the line. Don't blame me--I voted for Kerry. And Gore. And Clinton. :)

[kimo55]

lets see if there's a direct correlation between those of us who got spanked and our political affilation. I got spanked and I turned out a Republican. :eek:

Next...


I was spanked when it was appropriate and required.

I HATE politics.

[1stwahine]

I was spoiled, spanked and then some. Raised, not in a normal sense of a childhood ( would never change it). Parents were involved with cadidates running for office (big money donors), Neil Blaisdell and John a Burns. So, I guess I became like them. I vote for the candidate not the party. Although when I was a mere teenager, I was President for TARS (Teenage Republicans) of Hawaii. Hmmm...I wonder if that's why I became NUTS? ;)

[craigwatanabe]

That's interesting because I was born and raised a Democrat simply because my parents were and that Dan Inouye's sister-in-law was my Den Mother when I was a cub scout. We had to pass out re-election flyers in our Cub Scout uniforms for then State Senator Inouye in our neighborhood. Kinda seems unethical in these days, but it was 1969 then.

I stayed a staunch Democrat until the fall of 1984 when I took a Politcal Science class at UH Manoa and because it was an election year (Reagan vs Mondale) two people were picked to do a mock presidential debate. I lost and had to be Ronald Reagan. I protested but to no avail. Participation in this debate as a candidate covered my mid-term exam.

Not only did I have to represent a party I hated but I had to do a good job for a good grade. So I bit the bullet and became Ronald Reagan.

After numerous interviews with party officials at their HQ and reading as much as possible on Reagan to understand his persona (and it was a great one) as well as understanding the Republican's positions I was ready for the debate.

I spoke of our nation's need to build up our Navy's armada to a 600-fleet flotilla to tell the then Soviet Union we will deter a Soviet attack on their shores with our fleet. My professor told me that President Reagan would never say such a politically incorrect statement to our cold war enemy much less in a debate.

I told him I think he would, so we agreed that if he did mention what I said in his actual debate, I would pass with an A for accurately reading the president's mindset and behaviour.

Well Reagan said exactly that and I passed. But it was during the note-taking when I was fishing for information about the Republican party that I realized my beliefs followed the Republican party. I was a Christian, I was against abortion (but not for the nation), I believed the welfare system needed a major revamping, I believed in a market driven economy and I believed in a strong military. I still believe in these principles and quite frankly, a lot of people do too. Remember Democrats go to church too.

So I realized I was a Republican much to my surprize. I don't consider myself an extremist as I did vote for Inouye as he brings in the money to our local economy and I'm not blind to that. Abercrombie...when he cut his ponytail I lost my confidence in him (I voted for him when he first ran).

But as a child, I was paddled to the point where the word koa paddle brings shudders to me...drilled koa paddle sends a shiver up my spine when it get's mentioned. So do the words: Belt, Belt buckle, Rice paddle, yard stick, or anything my mom could get her hands on for my dirty lickings. :D And now look at me...a Republican!! :eek: Friggin Warmonger...and yes I'm a U.S. Veteran to boot!

[1stwahine]

Craig, first of all, thank you for your service in the Armed Forces. I never really did appreciate anything concerning War Vets. I learned alot when my own children went to War.

Second, our generation took the spankings and the paddlings. Most of us came out pretty good. The generation of today lacks something. I don't believe in spanking...but yesterday, after chuch my 8 year old nephew couldn't stop touching everything in sight. Needless to say, he does it purposely and my sister asked me to take care of the problem. I didn't even say one word or raise my hand, the kid started screaming as if someone was killing him. People started to stare. I did what I used to do for my own kids. I started to scream like he was. I no shame. I'm crazy!

He shut his mouth and behaved like a little boy should. I called this morning and he went to school without the usual acting up and giving problems. He was told Aunty Lynn coming. ;)

[zztype]

I didn't even say one word or raise my hand, the kid started screaming as if someone was killing him. People started to stare. I did what I used to do for my own kids. I started to scream like he was. I no shame. I'm crazy!

He shut his mouth and behaved like a little boy should. I called this morning and he went to school without the usual acting up and giving problems. He was told Aunty Lynn coming. ;)Too much!! Awesome, Auntieeee!! I goin' call you up when my kid ack up!!! Mahalo for the great idea!

Blaine

[pzarquon]

I did what I used to do for my own kids. I started to scream like he was. I no shame. I'm crazy!Hmm. Well, this might work with screaming, but the "backatcha treatment" doesn't work with all bad kid behavior. Like, say, biting. Not that anyone here would know anything about that, no sir.

Gotta admit, though, seeing Lynn or any grown adult throw a toddler-like tantrum would probably scare me straight. At least for a while...

[1stwahine]

You're welcome ZZType. It works. The best one I did was when my son wanted one of the toys they sell in 7/11 by the doors. He gave a tantrum screaming, crying & kicking on the ground. Told my husband to hold my purse and walk out. He did. I threw myself on the ground and gave my son a tantrum too. He looked at me and wen shut up so fast. Never did give me any more tantrums! Must have told my daughters too. They never did try it on me.

[Peshkwe]

You're welcome ZZType. It works. The best one I did was when my son wanted one of the toys they sell in 7/11 by the doors. He gave a tantrum screaming, crying & kicking on the ground. Told my husband to hold my purse and walk out. He did. I threw myself on the ground and gave my son a tantrum too. He looked at me and wen shut up so fast. Never did give me any more tantrums! Must have told my daughters too. They never did try it on me.

LOL!!

Now me...I draw attention to it, I mean that's what the kid wants right? So I get loud and call all kinds of strangers over to watch the show....give applause and ask for the kid to do it again.

Me, I got switched on the back of the knees alot (not too hard)....but that was 'cause they went backwards and I looked like a chicken...but I took care of my lil bro and sis and used to beat the crap out of them.

[kimo55]

... one of the toys they sell in 7/11 by the doors. He gave a tantrum screaming, crying & kicking on the ground. Told my husband to hold my purse and walk out. He did. I threw myself on the ground and gave my son a tantrum too. He looked at me and wen shut up so fast. Never did give me any more tantrums! Must have told my daughters too. They never did try it on me.


genius.
absolute.
sometimes, aunty, you surprise me.

[tvguy]

I thought of this thread while watching "Super Nanny" last night....couldn't stand it after a couple of minutes. Kept yelling at the TV for the mom to give the kids couple slaps! :)

Seriously though, I think there comes a time when parents need to establish their authority role, and the things the kids on TV did, me and my siblings, AND my kids would NEVER get away with. The show was making me SO angry!!! The 8 year old daughter was hitting her mom because mom wouldn't let her use the phone. Then she started pouring food on the kitchen floor. AUWE! If kids can't learn from their parents to listen and respect authority, they'll never listen to anyone.

[1stwahine]

I also don't like the Nanny Show. Spanking is up to the individual on their children. period. However, now that I'm all of sudden with two grand daughters, ages 4 & 5 who are active, precious and manipulating at the same time...my patience is fast becoming limited.

My son finally had to sit them down in the room and tell them, that if Grandma gets mad, it will be worse than their mommy,their daddy and him put together. He told them I had eyes all over my head and keen ears. They believed and now listen and are good little girls. Easy to watch without a raise of my hand.

Every morning, they ask me if I took my pills!hehehehehehehehe ;)

[adrian]

I've been "slapped" by my parent's hand (on the face and leg), belt (ranging from 1/2 inch to 4 inches) and back scratcher (but the belt was the one that hurt the most).

I guess its for diciplinary reasons, but if a kid gets slapped by a belt when he dropped juice on the floor, then that's abuse.

It depends on how the parents got raised; they learn from their parents and tend to do to their kids what they had when they were kids.

[BABYGIRL]

I Think Too Many Kids Are Running The Show These Days And Really Deserve A Good Spanking So No I Am Not Opposed To Spanking. I Look At It Like This As A Child If You Do Something Wrong There Are Consequences For Your Actions And It Is Probably Going To Be A Spanking. If You Do Not Figure Out Consequences As A Child Or Young Adult Then As An Adult If You Screw Up Then The Consequence In Some Situations Is Prison! That Is Not What I Want For My Children.
But I Am Very Disturbed When People Get Out Of Hand And A Spanking Becomes Abusive. So I Can See The Pros And Cons Of The Spanking Issue.

[islandguy]

Pro 13:24 He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him quickly.

[BABYGIRL]

Just last night after I had already posted my reply I took my kids to toys r us and on the way back to the car I saw a family (mom, dad, son and daughter) walking to their car and the boy must have been about 10yrs old or so and he was mad at his mother so he was yelling at her and hitting her! Smacked her in the face and punched her in the arm and chest! I couldn't believe it when all she would do is tell him to stop it and he would reply "your rude, I hate you". The father just kept walking the car car like nothing was going on, got in the car and did or said nothing to his son who was abusing the mother. :eek:

This is the problem with today's society if you spank you kids they can call the cops on you for abuse and if you let them run wild they will end up abusing you! No respect at all. :confused:

I beleive in spanking like I said, but I hardly ever have to spank my children not because they're angels but because they respect me enough not to make me take it to that point. But if the day ever came that my child was screaming at me and smacking me in the face in public or in private it will be an ugly day in my house! There is no way I would put up with that.

You have your children you love, protect, and take care of them. You do what's best for them and always keep them safe to the best of your abilities and in turn they should respect and love thier parents.they should make the best out of thier lives and when your old they should take care of you. ( in a perfect world I know but it sounds good :o)

God bless our children but also god bless us for doing the best that we can!

[1stwahine]

I was thinking of this thread yesterday. Yes, we do our best in raising our children. They become who they are mostly due to what we instill in them. However, they are also not with us every minute, especially when they attend school, activities, etc. Environment, friends play alot into a growing child's life and how they tend to behave. Oh, then the teenage years arrive. I was fortunate that I didn't have to go through what many parents say is a normal phase.

Yesterday, I got into a spat with my youngest and mother to my grandson, Antonio. It hurt. I wanted to smash her so much...I didn't care that she's a cop. I just wanted her mouth to shut up! I held my composure.

This morning I'm glad I didn't hit her. I'm sure she wouldn't hit me back either. It doesn't matter. I believe that no one should be hit, no matter the circumstances. Sometimes in the heat of things, we may want to do some spanking. Is it to release our frustrations too?

My grand daughters sleep with me till the big move. They yackity yack until I'm blue in the face from telling them to take a time out...eh, go sleep! Children are precious and to raise them is an honor that we as parents must do our best.

Ok, I'm finished. I'm going to take a pill. I'm going to call my daughter.

Auntie Lynn aka Auntie Pupule

[dick]

I was never hit (which is what "spanking" is... come on, call a spade a spade) by my parents. Physical violence of any kind was simply not tolerated. Hitting a child does nothing but reinforce the idea that dealing with difficult situations can only be done through weak resorts to dumbed-down violence. It's a pretty twisted way to raise a kid if you ask me. Anyway, why are only small children "spanked?" You never see 200-pound teenagers getting "spanked." I suspect those parents are afraid of getting a little taste of their own medicine.

[sinjin]

I was never hit (which is what "spanking" is... come on, call a spade a spade) by my parents. Physical violence of any kind was simply not tolerated. Hitting a child does nothing but reinforce the idea that dealing with difficult situations can only be done through weak resorts to dumbed-down violence. It's a pretty twisted way to raise a kid if you ask me. Anyway, why are only small children "spanked?" You never see 200-pound teenagers getting "spanked." I suspect those parents are afraid of getting a little taste of their own medicine.

Who said anything about "only"?

Have children of your own?

Small children are often spanked because they are still immune to reason.

I suppose you think violence never solved anything?

[jdub]

my dad had the phantom spank...you never saw it coming and it scared the bejesus out of you...but you knew you earned it...like the death penalty, it wasn't much of a deterrent, but it was effective punishment...

[sinjin]

my dad had the phantom spank...you never saw it coming and it scared the bejesus out of you...but you knew you earned it...like the death penalty, it wasn't much of a deterrent, but it was effective punishment...

The thing is that if you've spanked and are prepared to do so again and the kid knows it, you may never have to spank again afterall. Timeouts and such nonsense are rarely effective with toddlers who hit and bite other children. I know, I have one.

[sinjin]

I know it's just your signature... but it sure looked inappropriate with the pictures of your child above it.... lmao ;) (Sounds like your beating your children) :eek:
That's funny. I hadn't thought of it.

For the record I am a proponent of spanking when appropriate. This applies to adults in general as well as my own children.

[1stwahine]

That's funny. I hadn't thought of it.

For the record I am a proponent of spanking when appropriate. This applies to adults in general as well as my own children.

Hmmm..I sure like to meet you and see how'd you like how my Whack! Whacks! feel.

Auntie Lynn

btw: I Don't believe in Spanking in Children! :eek:

[sinjin]

Hmmm..I sure like to meet you and see how'd you like how my Whack! Whacks! feel.

Auntie Lynn

btw: I Don't believe in Spanking in Children! :eek:

I promise to give you that chance some day Auntie. :D

Spanking may not be necessary for all kids but below a certain age there's no reasoning with them. My son is very strong willed and defiant. If I don't get a handle on him now, God help me later. Time outs seem to have little lasting value. Swats hardly any better.

P.S. Know that I used to go to clubs that served up floggings as part of audience participation in the entertainment. :p Nails aren't nearly as hard as I am.

[Glen Miyashiro]

P.S. Know that I used to go to clubs that served up floggings as part of audience participation in the entertainment. :pHeh heh. I know a place here in Honolulu that does that, too.

[MadAzza]

Oh, you had to bring this up. Now TimKona is going to barge in and demand public beatings for delinquent elementary students!

Not that I'd necessarily disagree with that ...

[sinjin]

Heh heh. I know a place here in Honolulu that does that, too.
That's good to know. I imagine there's some interest in shibari/kinbaku in Hawaii as well.

[Da Rolling Eye]

Republican. Spank. Only one on the butt or back of the upper leg and not just any ol time I feel like it. In restaurants.....da magic pinch. ;) Mel can get pretty rambunctious and nothing short of raising my voice at her will get her attention. When she acts up in public places, raising my voice isn't an option. A well placed tweak on her derriere usually gets her attention right quick and she'll stop what she's doing so we can talk to her. After that, I just have to raise my hand making a pinching motion with my thumb and indes finger. :D

[Pua'i Mana'o]

My husband and I made a decision a long time ago to give up spanking. Instead we have committed ourselves to raising intelligent children, empowered and responsible for their own behavior and the consequences thereof, and I am quite pleased at not only how they have lived up to their obligations, but how much harder my husband and I have had to work at *our* parenting to be present and conscientious of our words and deeds. Our evolution of our parenting had much to do with my husband and his martial arts training; the higher up in belts he went, the more strongly he believed that striking our children, even with the most noble intentions, was wrong for our family.

Don't get me wrong: my kids' folks are NOT wimps. But we fundamentally believe that if you keep high standards, kids will break their own necks to live up to them as best as possible. If you raise them by showing them that anger gets the best of you and you resort to bullying those you love, they will mimic that behavior. Call kids "stupid" all their lives, and by golly we will be talking about those stupid adults when they grow up.

In our case, my kids' mother is a tita. I have often joked that "I won't spank you when you are young and innocent. That energy will be saved for the day that you come at me as an insolent teenager. Helllooooo smackdown". Mahalo ke Akua: with a couple of teenagers already in the home, I am quite pleased at their abilities to troubleshoot and resolve. Fight--but resolve. And fight only when necessary. And like my husband is fond of saying "fight until you forgive". (took me years to understand what the heck that meant).

My children are all strong-willed individuals. But they are thoughtful and respectful, and have their own moral codes of which I am so very proud.

[1stwahine]

Pua'i Mana'o, BRAVO!!! You made my DAY!

Dances around my computa. Wait. Dis not my BLOG! :eek:

Dances around my computa with clothes on!!!!! :p

BRAVO!!!!!!!! :D

Auntie Lynn

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Mahalo Auntie :)

Unfortunately, discussions on spanking can become quite contentious, because nobody intends to be a bad™ parent. We took flak from well-intentioned relatives when we made these decisions. And the kids didn't grow up as perfect, manicured and well-behaved...I mean, c'mon. Kids are kids. But each and every time we had a situation arise, then it was up to us to parent them, and we didn't spare the rod. A good shepard does not use his rod as a weapon to beat the flock. It is a tool to guide them. If we had to "stop, drop and roll", then we did it. No social constructs of "time out, kiddo!". Nope; we hashed whatever needed to right then and there. Get it out, own up to it, and resolve it. No insulting. No p/a behavior. No extraneous bull.

Sometimes it was harder. Tempers flare. Injustices are done, feelings get hurt, stewing takes time. As much as possible, we must be aware of our actions and each potential repurcussion. And own it. Be responsible for it. That is the stuff that develops one's morals. Our ethics is the cumulative of our behavior, but our morals--our beliefs and intentions--is the stuff of that old Greek saying, "our character becomes our fate".

(btw: I didn't always think like this; it took time and being married to a big Hawaiian bradda, who was military, and has been influenced by martial arts for years).

[MadAzza]

I never believed in that Dr. Spock mentality of sparing the rod and spoiling the child. His advice spawned an entire generation of 20-something year olds who feel they are the only generation that has experienced suffering (hmmm maybe spanking would have really given them something to suffer about).

There seems to be a misunderstanding here. The phrase "Spare the rod and spoil the child" means "If you spare the rod, you will spoil your child."

It does not mean you should spare the rod, and spoil the child. It means that you should whack the kid, or he will be a spoiled brat.

Dr. Spock did not believe in "spare the rod, spoil the child." He believed in spoiling the child.

[MadAzza]

Whose parents didnt spank their kids?

Mine. We certainly never deserved it, either.

Whoops! I thought these posts were from May, not March.

Sorry to drag up old stuff!

[CranBeree]

when i was a kid, my mom use to give us whacks...5 min late? after 6 pm curfew..whack with the leather belt..broke something, gave her a hard time etc out came the belt..i think the most extreme was i forget what i did but she made me kneel down in salt in front of an altar and ask forgiveness for my sin..um i think i was only 6..LOL but i came out okay i think, but as for me and my husband as parents we don't believe in spanking..gosh there are some days that warrant it mind you, but i gotta say my kids are well behaved for the most part...oh and that evil eye thing really really works!

[timkona]

madazza - Oh, you had to bring this up. Now TimKona is going to barge in and demand public beatings for delinquent elementary students!

Seems to me student performance is inversely proportional to the paddlings in school, when judged over the course of time. No doubt that this trend can be traced directly to liberalism, and their efforts at emasculating teachers to promote academic mediocrity, and fairness, at the expense of the brightest and most able students.

I've read that Hawaii was the most literate society around back at the turn of the century. I wonder what happened. Nowadays, students who do well in school are villified by some, especially their ignorant peers. Judging by school performances on tests, one could logically conclude that the idiots are quickly becoming the majority.

Was it the cover of some national magazine that blared a 30% dropout rate headline?? Not my kid.

[kaneohegirl]

Seems to me student performance is inversely proportional to the paddlings in school, when judged over the course of time.


bring back the paddlings.... worked wen we was kids!

[craigwatanabe]

Yeah there was a time when students were afraid of teachers...now it's the other way around. Something went wrong somewhere between the 80's when corpral punishment ended and now.

Oh that's right...it's when students learned about the ACLU. :eek:

[sinjin]

I didn't always think like this; it took time and being married to a big Hawaiian bradda, who was military, and has been influenced by martial arts for years.

As usual your position seems well considered and worthy of respect. My only question would be how old was your youngest when you chose to no longer spank or were none of your children ever spanked?

[Pua'i Mana'o]

As usual your position seems well considered and worthy of respect. My only question would be how old was your youngest when you chose to no longer spank or were none of your children ever spanked?


My children were 7, 4 and 2 when we made this decision. My husband has never hit any of them; I was the spanker.

[sinjin]

My children were 7, 4 and 2 when we made this decision. My husband has never hit any of them; I was the spanker.

What was your discipline method of choice with the younger ones?

[MadAzza]

Yeah there was a time when students were afraid of teachers...now it's the other way around. Something went wrong somewhere between the 80's when corpral punishment ended and now.

I'm pretty sure corporal punishment ended in the schools long before the 80s! At least, in my neighborhood in the Seattle area it did -- it ended in the sixties there, I'm pretty sure. I don't remember anyone getting whacked when I was in school.

[craigwatanabe]

I was the Bad parent, my wife was the good parent. When the kids were bad, they were sent to: The Watanabe School of Discipline. I was so effective that my co-workers wanted to "enroll" their kids in my school. Basically it was Boot Camp for kids, no physical abuse, just lots of hard work and a stern voice that commanded attention. Once they got in line then respect and a reward structure replaced the toughness, they pretty much came out good kids. My oldest boy (now 21) says he understands why I was like that and he told me it helped keep him straight during the peer pressure times of his life.

But now I have my last kid, Jesse and for some reason I just dote over him instead of "MAY THE WRATH OF GOD BE UPON YOU FOR YOUR EVIL WAYS". I think this one's gonna be my bachi for being such a meanie to my other five boys. :(

[Pua'i Mana'o]

What was your discipline method of choice with the younger ones?

talk talk talk talk, make the kids talk talk talk talk. Grab child, physically remove the kid from the situation, and talk talk talk talk. Oh yeah, and never swear at them, nor call them names.

[craigwatanabe]

I'm pretty sure corporal punishment ended in the schools long before the 80s! At least, in my neighborhood in the Seattle area it did -- it ended in the sixties there, I'm pretty sure. I don't remember anyone getting whacked when I was in school.

Lucky for you. I remember the koa paddle in Principal Nishijo's office at Kalani High School. That was in the late 70's.

But Maddie, see what lack of corporal punishment did to you? :D Not only did you become a professional in words, but you became one with an editorial sting to it to boot! :eek:

[kaneohegirl]

yep I started school I think in 76 and had um alla way thru elementary....keeds respected da teachers back den cause they knew they could get sent to the principals office for a couple of good whackshttp://www.alohaworld.info/lanai/images/smilies/smileyrubbahslippah.gif nowadays they mouth off an distract the classes and jus plain disrupt learning because they can.... sad

[i-hungry]

interesting posts in this thread. everyone has their opinions on the subject.

i think it depends on the situation and the child. they would have done something seriously wrong to warrant punishing them with spanking.

some kids will never need to be spanked. if they don't cross a line when very young and they can be reasoned with when they are old enough then there's no need to spank them. if a tree grows they way you want it then it doesn't need a trim.

but to say you would never spank and you have kids that don't need it then it doesn't mean its wrong. its just not needed in your case.

i'm not a violent person. i love kids. but i wouldn't skip spanking if the need arises. i would definitely try to reason with them first. i also would try to arrange things to there would be less of a chance that the child would misbehave. i would try to negotiate with the child if possible. spanking would be the last resort.

as far as spanking a 200lb kid, well that's a bit late. the discipline problem is out of hand if you feel that person needs to be punished in the fashion. i think spanking should be done a lot earlier. other types of punishment when they get older. of course, i'm assuming that the 200lb kid is an older teenager and not a younger child. :)

for the actual spanking, it should be on the butt and not violent. if the pain is there to the next day then its way past the level of strength needed.

i think the past couple generations have the least amount of spanking compared to the earlier generations. but kids "seem" worst now. i don't think spanking solve all of the problems of today but i don't think it made things worst. of course i'm not talking about the abusive parents because they did it wrong anway.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

interesting posts in this thread. everyone has their opinions on the subject.

i think it depends on the situation and the child. they would have done something seriously wrong to warrant punishing them with spanking.

some kids will never need to be spanked. if they don't cross a line when very young and they can be reasoned with when they are old enough then there's no need to spank them. if a tree grows they way you want it then it doesn't need a trim.

but to say you would never spank and you have kids that don't need it then it doesn't mean its wrong. its just not needed in your case.

i'm not a violent person. i love kids. but i wouldn't skip spanking if the need arises. i would definitely try to reason with them first. i also would try to arrange things to there would be less of a chance that the child would misbehave. i would try to negotiate with the child if possible. spanking would be the last resort.

as far as spanking a 200lb kid, well that's a bit late. the discipline problem is out of hand if you feel that person needs to be punished in the fashion. i think spanking should be done a lot earlier. other types of punishment when they get older. of course, i'm assuming that the 200lb kid is an older teenager and not a younger child. :)

for the actual spanking, it should be on the butt and not violent. if the pain is there to the next day then its way past the level of strength needed.

i think the past couple generations have the least amount of spanking compared to the earlier generations. but kids "seem" worst now. i don't think spanking solve all of the problems of today but i don't think it made things worst. of course i'm not talking about the abusive parents because they did it wrong anway.

These are interesting points and I would like to dialogue about them, using my experience. My children were all spanked; my eldest until she was 7, my middle until 4 and my youngest until 2.

My decision to stop spanking and use different methods of discipline was not easy. Did my kids' behavior change that they stopped "needing a spank"? No; MY behavior changed that I stopped "needing TO spank". And until this very day, with my youngest in elementary school still yet, there are times when I, from gut instinct, would rather crack 'em a good one to stop doing what s/he is doing and instead do it the way I want him/her to.

But something does happen when resolving it over the table instead over my knee. Over time habits form. Dropping the idea that we "punish" our loved ones and focus on discipline and resolution instead, it spills over into other areas. It breeds respect. And kids that are respected emit the same.

I will never expect that a kid act beyond his/her age level. But I can expect from myself that I demonstrate the maturity and foresight that my adulthood and experience has afforded me towards those who should be using those hard times as opportunities to learn how to handle not getting what s/he wants, or being treated by/treat others fairly. And, I can expect to hold them to high standards if I hold myself to the same.

And I do.

[Hellbent]

i was spanked. i think as most have said, if it is used only sparingly.
i cannot stand the people who just wack the hell out of their babies. i dont have any kids yet, but i will never be like them. i am thinking of this time i was working at longs moilili and this lady had a 3 year old kid by the hand and wacking the hell out of him. he was caught by the hand, and was trying to run away, but went in circles while the lady swatted at him. i dont remember what the kid did, but it made a big scene.

[1stwahine]

It was great to re-read this thread again!

Good Morning everyone!

Have a great day!

I'm off to work....

Auntie Lynn :D

[cherla42]

No Spanking. More often than not spanking is only a way to relieve your own frustration...if your honest about it. Your children learn most everything from you they will also learn to raise a hand and hit when they are frustrated.

[sinjin]

No Spanking. More often than not spanking is only a way to relieve your own frustration...if your honest about it. Your children learn most everything from you they will also learn to raise a hand and hit when they are frustrated.
Except when it's not just one's frustration. How does one reason with a 2yr. old? How many times should little Kimo be allowed to put his finger in the socket before a swat is preferable?

[Leo Lakio]

How does one reason with a 2yr. old?You've distilled the essence with this question. A two-year-old isn't capable of reasoning, in the sense that an adult mind defines the concept. You have to recognize that whatever discipline you might think is appropriate will be processed and perceived differently by the mind of a toddler, and act accordingly.

[lurkah]

You've distilled the essence with this question.
Ho da hybolic, eh Uncle? :p Sorry, couldn't resist.

By the way, I just wanted to mention that cherla42 speaks from the heart, as she has a vested interest in the welfare and well being of the little girl in this story (http://starbulletin.com/2006/04/07/news/story07.html).

[blueyecicle]

There's a fine line between beating and spanking.

What people called spanking in the 50's could really be considered beating.

We were raised with "spanking"....I don't think 150 swats till we bled was "spanking".

You would think with that kind of history I would be totally anti-spanking.
But with 3 boys....I don't know.

I think discipline is in the way you perform it. Spank or no spank.

When my dad came to give me one swat that didn't even hurt I was more terrified then when my mother gave me 80. Her's hurt and bruised but when it came to dad it was the disappointment he had in me that hurt more.

It was the tone and the fear not the actual hitting.

I think spanking is done wrong, completely wrong.

When I was a kid if someone sat down calmy and explained why and what and how then gave me a swat I would remember it and use it to learn, if they came a wailing and yelling and beating...well, that's just NOT spanking.

So how many cents is that? Have I passed 2 yet (: :D

[Leo Lakio]

[INDENT]Ho da hybolic, eh Uncle? :p Sorry, couldn't resist.
Nor should you, lurkah, nor should you.

[hawaiidreaming]

some need a spank more then others but as long as you show them love as well i think its ok, specially if they are real bad some days

[Leo Lakio]

some need a spank more then others but as long as you show them love as well i think its ok, specially if they are real bad some daysI can imagine abusive spouses using this same logic, unfortunately.

What a mixed message it sends to the developing mind of a child: "I love you, you know that?" - WHAP! (Love = Pain)

[cherla42]

Except when it's not just one's frustration. How does one reason with a 2yr. old? How many times should little Kimo be allowed to put his finger in the socket before a swat is preferable?
There are covers for sockets. As far as how many times...what ever it takes...usually a lifetime lol. What if adults received a spanking for mistakes they made on a daily basis. We would all be black and blue!

[LocoBoy]

Posted by Leo Lakio: What a mixed message it sends to the developing mind of a child: "I love you, you know that?" - WHAP! (Love = Pain)
IMHO, I dont think thats actually how it's meant/done. The post below I think better explains what is meant.


Posted by Blueyecicle: When I was a kid if someone sat down calmy and explained why and what and how then gave me a swat I would remember it and use it to learn,

I use different methods of dicipline including time outs, extra chores, taking away priveledges and sometimes in combination. The mere mention of taking away their video games causes an amazing change od attitude in my home, lol.

[blueyecicle]

IMHO, I dont think thats actually how it's meant/done. The post below I think better explains what is meant.




I use different methods of dicipline including time outs, extra chores, taking away priveledges and sometimes in combination. The mere mention of taking away their video games causes an amazing change od attitude in my home, lol.

I use that to but it doesn't always work on my boys!
I have even stripped the room! But there are complications...as in any family...a birth mother who does not discipline at all...a grandmother who visits...other "issues".

[sinjin]

There are covers for sockets. As far as how many times...what ever it takes...usually a lifetime lol. What if adults received a spanking for mistakes they made on a daily basis. We would all be black and blue!
I don't spank for mistakes. I spank for continued disobediance after time-outs and multiple warnings of impending corporal consequences. Also, I happen to support spankings for adults in certain circumstances.

[hawaiidreaming]

I can imagine abusive spouses using this same logic, unfortunately.

What a mixed message it sends to the developing mind of a child: "I love you, you know that?" - WHAP! (Love = Pain) haha very funny , as if :confused:

[LocoBoy]

Posted by Sinjin: Also, I happen to support spankings for adults in certain circumstances.

Oh my, please do tell :p :D .

[sinjin]

Oh my, please do tell :p :D .
I meant the kind against their will, you dirty, dirty thing. :rolleyes:

[Leo Lakio]

I meant the kind against their will, you dirty, dirty thing. :rolleyes:Combined with your signature: The beatings will continue until morale improves.that message is so complete.

[pzarquon]

Beating kids is child abuse; spanking isn't (http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070206/LIFE21/702060307/1210/LIFE) (Commentary)
California Assemblywoman Sally Lieber, D-San Francisco, has proposed a law that would prohibit parental spanking of children younger than 4. The law, not yet drafted, would make spanking a child 3 or younger a crime punishable by a fine and/or jail time.

"I think it's pretty hard to argue you need to beat a child 3 years old or younger," said Lieber.

I agree with that. In fact, I'll expand that to include any age child. But of course, Lieber is using "beat" to mean any swat to a child's rear parts, and in so doing, she is revealing a predilection for emotional hyperactivity, the province of the demagogue.

[Ecntrc]

i give em sasas on the hands or muli. not hard and not more than once.

[Beachboy]

if you grew up in Hawaii, the chances are you were on the wrong end stick,hand, etc... It's part of growing up with 'Aloha'. When I was young I was give usually a choice of tool that would be used against my now calist okole. Auntie normally would give me her plastic hair brush. Uncle gave me the choice of belt, or tree branch!:eek:

With my 8yr old. I started with the soft spoken rational,"why we don't do this" angle. When that no longer worked. The stern loud voice was good for a few years...then it lost it's effect? My oldest realized that an ass wiping wouldn't follow all the screaming. So these days yelling can be follwed by a single spank to the okole,or a swift kick to the okole. Either way only one "whack" is forthcoming, and it is followed with an explantion as to why it went down the way it did.

I feel like I'm in a hard situation. Trying to explain to an 8 yr old why he is getting spanked isn't easy. He can't see any love in his father's disipline!? But I tell him if I didn't love him, I wouldn't correct him on anything. It's because I love you that I correct your actions!

Kids have tough time understanding "tough love"!

[Miulang]

if you grew up in Hawaii, the chances are you were on the wrong end stick,hand, etc... It's part of growing up with 'Aloha'. When I was young I was give usually a choice of tool that would be used against my now calist okole. Auntie normally would give me her plastic hair brush. Uncle gave me the choice of belt, or tree branch!:eek:

With my 8yr old. I started with the soft spoken rational,"why we don't do this" angle. When that no longer worked. The stern loud voice was good for a few years...then it lost it's effect? My oldest realized that an ass wiping wouldn't follow all the screaming. So these days yelling can be follwed by a single spank to the okole,or a swift kick to the okole. Either way only one "whack" is forthcoming, and it is followed with an explantion as to why it went down the way it did.

I feel like I'm in a hard situation. Trying to explain to an 8 yr old why he is getting spanked isn't easy. He can't see any love in his father's disipline!? But I tell him if I didn't love him, I wouldn't correct him on anything. It's because I love you that I correct your actions!

Kids have tough time understanding "tough love"!

You going stop spanking da kid when he gets bigger than you, yeah?:D

Miulang

[craigwatanabe]

Trying to explain to an 8 yr old why he is getting spanked isn't easy. He can't see any love in his father's disipline!? But I tell him if I didn't love him, I wouldn't correct him on anything. It's because I love you that I correct your actions!

Kids have tough time understanding "tough love"!


Remember, there's a difference between discipline and punishment. Spanking a child is punishment. An obedient child shows discipline.

BTW...welcome to the Big Island:)

[sinjin]

Beating kids is child abuse; spanking isn't (http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070206/LIFE21/702060307/1210/LIFE) (Commentary)California Assemblywoman Sally Lieber, D-San Francisco, has no children of her own. Persona non grata.

[craigwatanabe]

I remember one year back in Honolulu my wife took me to a presentation by a professor of early child hood education. She was spouting off the virtues of Dr. Spock and denounced spanking as outdated.

So educated was she, that when asked if she had any kids of her own, she blushed as virtually everyone in the audience were parents of preschoolers. You see she had none. And suddenly her credibility went out the door.

A professor educated in ECE with no children, telling parents how to raise theirs. What a concept. I walked out.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

And then there are parents like me.

I didn't spank my kids. I cracked them. I didn't whisper. My voice was deadly low. I didn't raise my voice. I hollered angrily. I never swore at them. They heard me swear under my breath.

And yes, I snuggled them, cried with them, made them laugh, had all of those wonderful warm, airy and sincere moments, too.

But when I chose to change my parenting habits from an authoritarian pov to a positive pov, there was a lot of change that I had to undergo within myself. I had to be completely honest with myself that I wasn't doing it 100% for their own good. A bigger part than I would ever admit to at that time had to do with being frustrated, angry, wanting them to simply listen, chill, modify their behavior to what I was willing to tolerate.

And there was the lesson I needed to learn: how to tolerate. How to cope. How to tell the difference between what they needed at that moment (guidance, plus tolerance, plus instruction, plus removal, etc) and what I was feeling/choosing to exhibit.

Positive parenting is waaaaay harder than authoritarian discipline. It has paid off, though. My kids are well-behaved, not too aggressive, soft-hearted, and yet will champion for the next guy if they think he's getting picked on. And how many parents would say that about a couple of teenagers?

[Leo Lakio]

Positive parenting is waaaaay harder than authoritarian discipline.I made a conscious choice not to have a child until I learned not to let my anger manifest itself in the act of striking another.

She's 26 now.

[craigwatanabe]

I made a conscious choice not to have a child until I learned not to let my anger manifest itself in the act of striking another.

She's 26 now.

Days, months, years? :D

Okay okay, one thing I learned was tolerance and compromise. My compromise came because I am old school and my wife is modern day ECE that opposes everything I learned about corporal punishment. Okay I won't hit my kids but boy dey get the suuupppperrrr long lecture and at the end after their ears are ringing I hit with maximum guilt.

I raised my kids like a drill seargent until they were old enough to understand my "in your face" intimidation. Then it was time to turn on the supportive parent. I learned that you can use the intimidation method up until age 12. After that at 13, hormones and peer pressure kick in and any attempt to yell at your teenage kids will result in them shutting you out. So I learned to back off on the verbal assault when they enter their teen years and provide a more supportive role as they mature.

That seems to work as all my adult kids and the one becoming an adult in 2-months seem to appreciate me better.

[Leo Lakio]

Days, months, years? :D Probably hours away, if I drive non-stop.

[craigwatanabe]

Probably hours away, if I drive non-stop.

Hmmm it seems one woman who was a space shuttle astronaut used a diaper, and another who is the house speaker wants to use a bigger jet to get there non stop.

what is it about women and jets. First Hanabusa then Peloski. AND THEY'RE BOTH DEMOCRATS IN OUR FEDERAL GOVERNMENT!!!

I know we should tell Nancy Peloski instead of a bigger jet, she ought to wear adult diapers if she's so concerned about getting there non-stop.