Got room for another newbie?

[Missouri Mama]

Greetings all!

Have been lurking in the shadows for a short while...figured it was time to come outta hiding. :D

I'm nothing fancy...am pretty much a career housewife, with a couple of pre-teen munchkins...do some artsy type things (wood-carving, sculpting, portrait drawing...lotsa beadwork), hiking, biking, gardening (am a gardening nut)...who also dreams of relocating to one of your lovely islands someday. We're poor folk, so it's gonna take a while to pull it off. If/when we do come...we won't come to exploit or invade or anything. We're really laid back folks who don't want to step on toes or be disrespectful in any way.

We know we won't ever be Hawaiian as I've seen others ask on here. (oh boy!) We come open-minded & respectfully...wanting to learn about your culture but, also staying true to our own (but will keep it to ourselves. LOL) We wanna mesh! :) My Mom's an enrolled member of the Santee tribe...and I've got some Lakota & Commanche in me (though other than the dark hair, I'm white as a ghost! hehe) so, can understand perhaps a little about other folks coming in and taking over someone's homeland....and because of that we're pretty mindful about being respectful in "other people's homes," so to speak.

Right now, I'm researching my heart out about the islands...and am an eager "student" open to anyone's and everyone's experiences & advice they have to share. We're planning a trip to visit in about a year & a half (hopefully...we'll see how that goes). We aren't too big on big touristy stuff (can't afford it anyway!) and are more an outdoorsy family...so will be going off the convention beaten path. So, anyways!

Here ya go ya'll. Have at me. (GRIN) You got yourself one big blank canvass to work with. :)

Missouri Mama

[1stwahine]

Aloha and Welcome to Hawai'i Threads! We're one big OHANA... :)

[kimo55]

We're one big OHANA... :)
definition of ohana:
"One big dysfunctional screwy mess, ready to bit yer head off."

(hey. why would ohana be all in caps!?)

One important thing that isn't reviewed or brought up when people say they are researching Hawaii for their iminent move, are the original voices.

So much emphasis on location...
"ooohhh.. I think i will live on the windward side. It is calling me."
so much reviewing of schools, markets, where the bigbox stores are... homes and neighborhoods... How convenient a neighborhood is...
Toitally missing the views and mana'o of the kanaka maoli, which is the soul of Hawaii.
Recommend going through these links. and trying to understand what is being said here.

http://ilio.org/
http://www.hawaii-nation.org/links.html
http://www.hawaii-nation.org (http://www.hawaii-nation.org/)
http://www.hawaiianlinks.com/hl/sovereignty.html
http://www.freehawaii.org/links.html
http://www.mauiculture.net/kuhikuhi/ea.html
www.moolelo.com (http://www.moolelo.com/)
http://www.global-town.com/about_hawaii/hawaii_links.htm
http://www.cord.edu/faculty/steinwan/hawaiilinks.html
http://www.instanthawaii.com/cgi-bin/hawaii?Sovereignty

[1stwahine]

definition of ohana:
"One big dysfunctional screwy mess, ready to bit yer head off."

(hey. why would ohana be all in caps!?)

no special reason, maybe my caps was stuck? have a great day BroKimo...go pick on someone else. :)

[kimo55]

maybe my caps was stuck? go pick on someone else. :)


But someone else's caps are never stuck. Yours always is...

[pzarquon]

Welcome to the 'Threads, Missouri Mama, and good luck in researching and following your dream. You should visit, several times, before really making the move, and definitely stay for more than a week. If you go off the beaten path, you'll learn much more than you will with a group, but even then it'll take some time to know whether you're seeing the truth, or what you want to see.

And don't worry about getting your head bit off. Only a few... okay, only one of us really does that reliably. And frankly, you could say you're not really a member of the `ohana until one of your threads is stomped on, in which case, you've been inducted early. Congratulations!

[1stwahine]

But someone else's caps are never stuck. Yours always is...

i'm not making more excuses for me kimo but one of the reasons it gets stuck a lot even on my emails is that i suffered two strokes as well as many TIAS. So, yeah, sometimes it's on purpose, sometimes it's not.

don't forget the picnic BroKimo! Looking forward to meeting you and the rest of the members that is going!

[kimo55]

don't forget the picnic BroKimo!


don't tell me what to do.
I am forgetting the pique-nique
at least I am trying to, with it being mentioned on each and every thread here.

[1stwahine]

don't tell me what to do.
I am forgetting the pique-nique
at least I am trying to, with it being mentioned on each and every thread here.

calm down, count to ten...having a bad day? come auntie, honihoni! :)

and if you don't, can't come to the picnic...no problemo. just don't spoil it for everyone else whoses in a great mood. Then again this wouldn't be hawai'i threads without your sense and affection of ALOHA! :eek:

[Miulang]

Right now, I'm researching my heart out about the islands...and am an eager "student" open to anyone's and everyone's experiences & advice they have to share. We're planning a trip to visit in about a year & a half (hopefully...we'll see how that goes). We aren't too big on big touristy stuff (can't afford it anyway!) and are more an outdoorsy family...so will be going off the convention beaten path. So, anyways!

Here ya go ya'll. Have at me. (GRIN) You got yourself one big blank canvass to work with. :)

Missouri Mama

Yes, respect for the culture in which you are visiting and the people who live there is always important. As for going off on the "beaten path" when visiting the 'aina, please do so with some caution. It would be much better if you could hook up with a local person before you get to Hawai'i who can tell you where off the beaten path is safe and where it is not. It would be even better if you can get a local to show you the off the beaten track places. There are some places in Hawai'i where even locals won't tread. And that kind of information you won't get in any tourist guidebook.

Miulang

[Lei K]

Welcome Missouri Mama! I lurked for quite a while myself before actually joining. There can be many a conflicting views between people on this board but I think it's actually refreshing that not everyone agrees here. It's nice that people can disagree and move on. Anyway, I hope you find a lot of useful information on ALL aspects of Hawai'i here.

Kimo, I love www.moolelo.com. I exchanged many emails with Uncle Charlie about 2 years ago. He helped me with so much and was incredibly kind to me. I had a lot to learn and still have so much more to go in learning about the Kanaka Maoli part of me. He's very passionate and helped light my fire when it came to educating myself. I think you had a wise and helpful selection of links for anyone thinking of moving to Hawai'i. I often give people who ask me about Hawai'i simular links.

[kimo55]

just don't spoil it for everyone else whoses in a great mood.


I know, I know;
"the wicked man is pissing you off again"..
but I can't spoil it for anyone except "everyone else whoses in a (hypersensitive, reactionary) mood..."

[kimo55]

Kimo, I love www.moolelo.com. I exchanged many emails with Uncle Charlie


I email him alot. da bruddah won't email me back.

and I have invited him a few times to chime in on some of our related important native concerns we churn here on this board....

[1stwahine]

I know, I know;
"the wicked man is pissing you off again"..
but I can't spoil it for anyone except "everyone else whoses in a (hypersensitive, reactionary) mood..."

dat response made me smile :D ...you not wicked. you just kimo. as for having hypersensitive,reactioanry moods :confused: , it comes with being bi-polar which I don't apologize for but hate :mad: having it. i wish you whatever makes your day and everyday a happy and safe one.

just me,
auntie lynn

[Missouri Mama]

Hey all!

Wow! Thank you guys/gals for the warm response!! I told the hubby today on the phone (he was takin' a lunch break...works about 50 minutes from where we live, and that's in no traffic) that I'd worked up the courage to come outta hiding here. Told him that I was fully expecting on having my nether regions shredded and handed back to me on a platter if Kimo didn't like me! :p ;) :D (said good-naturedly) THANK YOU FOR being so nice everyone!
--------

Thank you (((1stwahine))). You're so sweet!

--------

Kimo....

"One big dysfunctional screwy mess, ready to bit yer head off." Honestly, sounds a wee bit like my family. LOL (wink, grin)

I really appreciate your input...and the time you took to post all of those links for me. Too cool! I was secretly hoping someone would take pity on me and post some important places for me to go and learn...

I'm here because I want to understand, learn and hopefully be taught by those that truly matter (not that everyone doesn't matter...hope you guys/gals know what I mean! I'm not saying it too well!! Let's try this again...looking to learn from non-newbies, from folks born and raised in Hawaii ...maybe that sounds better?), Sorry, if I offer offense to anyone....don't mean to. I mightta just stuck my foot in my mouth on that one.

In all my digging around on here...it's so hard to get past all the touristy stuff and get at the valuable information. Out of dozens of links that pop up (when I'm searching for myself), I generally only find a couple that has anything worth a poo. So, Thanks, big time! I look forward to following all of your links.

I'm also completely open to any & all opinions, observations... I WANT that advice, and everyone's opinions & observations. I want it blunt and from the hip. So, PLEASE let it fly around me. I wanna hear it. I wanna learn what's important...and learn it the right way. And generally, I've got a real thick hide, so please nobody feel like you gotta treat me with kid gloves.

-------

Shoot I sure ramble don't I? Sorry!
--------

pzarquon.....thanks so much for the input! Your advice is much appreciated! Sounds like smart suggestions. Will do.

...And frankly, you could say you're not really a member of the `ohana until one of your threads is stomped on, in which case, you've been inducted early. Congratulations!

ROFL!! Cool!
--------------

Miulang...Thank you for you kindness in bringing those points up. Really, really appreciated. Please, PLEASE feel free to jump in anytime with any advice and observations. I'm honored by your and everyone else's help...and welcome it. I'm a real dummy here...but, wanting to learn so thank you!

--------------
(((LeiKaina)))) Thank you. I agree with your perspective too...nice that everyone can voice their opinions here.


Gosh everyone...don't know what to say. I knew ya'll were sweet people (you too (((Kimo))) wink, grin!) from reading on here... I just wasn't expecting such a nice welcome.

I promise to be the best newbie I can be on here...for as long as ya'll will have me. :)

Missouri Mama

[kimo55]

,,, I was fully expecting on having my nether regions shredded and handed back to me on a platter if Kimo didn't like me!


hey! I resemble that comment!

[Missouri Mama]

LOL

Kimo, big thanks. I only had one of those links (the last one). I'm glad you did all that for me. I haven't yet looked deeply into these very important issues ...but, I've been aiming too...and have been hoping to find folks such as yourself that were intimately familiar with them. Nor, did I know the extent of the issues (I'm sure I still don't...not even close!) Thanks for the guidance...I've bookmarked all of those for my late night reading time. Hope you'll feel free to add more ...as often as you feel necessary or inclined. That goes for everyone.

I'm glad you brought up these topics...it broke the ice on issues I very badly wanted to ask about but, didn't know how to politely bring up on my own.

I ain't gonna ask my questions on these issues yet though....cause I wanna know what I'm talking about before I ask those questions!! Probably most of those questions will be answered over time as I go through those very extensive repositories of info.

I gotta say ya'll...all the time, and more and more...I feel guilty about even thinking of moving to your islands. Much to think about.

Big thanks! :)

Missouri Mama

[kimo55]

here's an udder:


www.oha.org

[pzarquon]

I gotta say ya'll...all the time, and more and more...I feel guilty about even thinking of moving to your islands. Much to think about.Careful consideration and reconsideration is a good thing. Making connections with locals and getting to know their varied perspectives is a good thing. But still deciding to follow your dream and heart is also a good thing.

My wife decided to move out here, sight unseen, to attend UH. A decade and three beautiful hapa kids later, it was definitely the right choice, although I'm certain had she mentioned her idea at a site like this (had they existed at the time), she'd have gotten a lot of warnings and grief.

I befriended a fellow named James online a few years back who made the same spontaneous decision to move here from Alaska. He and I traded a few e-mails, I set him up with a blog to document the journey, and he too hopped that plane. So far, so good, and he's still writing about his life (http://www.hawaiistories.com/james) here in the islands.

To be sure, the internet is littered with many "Paradise Lost" tales, tragic stories of a hopeful island arrival only to be destroyed by unemployment, poor attitudes (albeit from both sides), loneliness. But, nothing ventured, nothing gained, and more than a few folks could also testify that Hawaii was exactly what they wanted, and needed, and that they ended up bringing something to the islands that benefited them as well.

Plan for the worst, hope for the best. Since you cared enough to visit, then post, here, I'm pretty confident you'll attain the latter.

[kimo55]

One thing many don't keep in mind, (and some even refute for some strange reason...)
Is...
Hawaii MAY be the 50th state, but it is an island separate/separated from "the states" in many ways.
From the innate resentment of many for the illegal overthrow of the kingdom, to the annexation against the wishes of many islanders, to statehood in 1959,
http://www.hawaii-nation.org/statehood2.html

to the californication that Honolulu is, and has been experiencing, to local papers becoming haole-ized to every damn thing in da islands being bought up by mainlanders and multinational corporations... to... well I gotta stop somewere.

and it is a completely different culture. and it is imbued with a completely different approach to:
business.
social interaction.
driving.
respect for the aina and the ocean and waterways.
etc.
and so on..
ad infinitum...

many come here and want to bring their complete culture here with them.
(McAffee thread)
and don't try to "when in rome, do as da romans do..."

and some just plain wanna act like jerks and maybe unknowingly alienate locals. Who knows. maybe they will learn. maybe they dun wanna. ever.
small manini stuffs, like daily communication means alot.
current case in point:
A female friend I go sailing with, now has her childhood sweetheart she hangs with. Fresh off da boat, a mainland haole dude.
So, I share with him part of my six pack of Foster's (It's canadian for beer, eh!) which I just bought at ABC an hour previous.
He takes it and turns to me and sez:
"uhhh... it's not very cold!"

whot!?
last time I shareshare wit dat bukatahdeh haole crab!
wanted to bop dat bum into da briney.
Run dat runt ovah da railing.
dump dat dummy deep into Davey Jones Locker.
shove dat shuck'n'jive turkey sharply into the crow's nest shroudlines.
quickly keelhaul dat clumsy caustic californee-ite.
gleefully gain much gladness by making dat goober go walk da gangplank.
pound dat putrid pile of parrot poop into a pod of porpoises (who turn out to be sharks.)

(sometimes, jezz gotta take a break from da mainlanders, present company excepted.)

ah well. takes all kinds to make up dis cwazy woild.

[pzarquon]

So, I share with him part of my six pack of Foster's (It's canadian for beer, eh!) which I just bought at ABC an hour previous. He takes it and turns to me and sez: "uhhh... it's not very cold!"Oh, dear Kimo, some things are rude no matter what the host culture. No doubt had he similarly griped while guest on a British yacht, someone there would've had the same instinct to bop him into the briney. There are many stories one could tell about newcomers to our islands "not getting" the local way, but this one is one of simple tact and graciousness (or the lack thereof), and reflects poorly on the goober, regardless of place or color.

Missouri Mama and other newcomers to the 'Threads, to get some background, or at least a better understanding, of our dear Kimo's specific point of view, check out some other haole is as haole does (http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showthread.php?t=2529) threads. Familiar territory for some.

[kimo55]

and reflects poorly on the goober, regardless of place or color.



Yuuuup,yup,yup,yup,uhuuuh.
But he certainly, at dat moment, helped to stereotypify (newly coined word, © 2005, Kimo) that ol' ugly american thing again!

[LikaNui]

to get some background, or at least a better understanding, of our dear Kimo's specific point of view, check out some other haole is as haole does (http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showthread.php?t=2529) threads.

To everyone: Can we not turn this into a racial issue, please? I'm starting to get a little uncomfortable with the direction this is headed.
We all (correctly) don't want haoles to insult Hawaiians and other locals, so perhaps it's best to set a good example by not having us locals insult haoles, eh?
:(

[kimo55]

... set a good example by not having us locals insult haoles, eh?
:(


azz why I tried to turn it around soooo.....
us islanders were only insulting (a select few) mainlanders!
Nuttin' ray shull bout dat eh!?

[Missouri Mama]

Hi all! Much has been posted since last I peeked in on here! Cool!

Everyone...please know...I haven't taken any offense at anything that's been said. I also HOPE like HECK that I somehow haven't caused any friction here...that sure wasn't my intent. I extend my deepest apologies if somehow I've caused anything to develop. I beg your indulgence...I'm still learning the ropes here. Please correct me and stick me in line...if I step out.

Kimo.... thanks! I've added the new links to my rapidly growing collection! I am reading what you share with interest and find it all valuable...something positive to learn from everything. We sure don't want to be one of those "ugly americans." We don't believe we will be...we just don't fit the profile. That guy sounds like a real jerk. He wouldn't go over well up here in my community either.

A bit more background on us, perhaps it will allay some worries a bit...perhaps not... I think it's necessary from what I'm hearing regarding bad experiences everyone has had.

I evacuated my family out of the metropolitan Kansas City area 3+ years ago. There were a number of factors contributing to why we left...basically, it just wasn't an environment we wished to live or raise our kids in. We didn't like the fast-paced, shallow, keep-up-with-the-joneses lifestyle. We didn't like the "concrete jungle." A person could live near a person for months...and still not know their name. Folks just weren't friendly and could give a lick less about another. If you were nice...people either looked at you like you were nuts, or swiftly took advantage of you. We didn't like that. So...I moved us out of the KC zone. Quite a ways out...until I found a place where time seemed to have been turned back a bit. A small town with a pop. less than 5,000 folks. Most of the time...feels like "Mayberry" here... or one of those scenes out of an old Norman Rockwell mag cover.

We like community. Though moving here got us closer to what we were seeking to find in many ways...and get away from in others...it still isn't exactly what we are looking for.

My family and I...could be considered oddballs in a number of ways. Though both of us have families and friends that devoutly follow (sometimes fundamentalist) Christian ways.... we don't and aren't. We do have the very highest of respect for all other beliefs and cultures though.

We follow Native American spirituality, we do our best to follow what is called the "red road"...which I'm discovering is very similar in several aspects to that of Native Hawaiian philosophy and religion. I have MUCH to learn on Hawaiian ways...but, so far...to me anyway, the similarities appear to be there.

We value the earth. We feel it is sacred. Everything is precious and has importance. We just treasure what is around us. One of our very wise ancestors once reputedly said...(to paraphrase) ..."the ground itself is sacred. Even the dirt itself. Our ancestors are buried beneath our feet, therefore the very dirt is holy." It goes beyond that...our ancestors also believed one couldn't own the land...or sell it for that matter...it belonged to everyone and noone. Alotta good that did. I could go on & on...

My husband and I both carry Native American blood in our veins and though we were both raised "white" (and mostly look it)....our families pretty much turned their backs on their parents' and grandparents' ways...we chose to re-embrace it. It's right for us.

Anways...

My point is...we aren't your typical white folks. We view things completely differently from the majority of people...and so far from what I've been able to discover...mirror many of the beliefs concerning the land and water and creatures that Hawaiians hold. We don't think it will be difficult for us to do as the "romans do." I've always loved that phrase! LOL The older we get, the more we wish to be surrounded by the pure unadulterated beauty that only nature can provide...and by people that do hold these same or similar values as important, along with the love of community and family. Even though it sounds like Hawaii is under attack by money hungry development/ers....we still believe that it truly is one of the last patches of paradise left. We hope there will be room for us, if/when we can make it there. We strive only to fit in...and live peacefully. It is important to us how we are viewed & accepted in this regard. As I've said...and I believe it...we know we would be strangers in someone else's land and home....and I do feel guilty thinking of moving there. You guys/gals have been through much...and it doesn't appear to be anywhere near over yet (if I'm reading things right).

I hope this helps a little...I also hope ya'll will continue with your input...the good, the bad and the ugly!
------------

pzarquon...I can't thank you enough for your input and perspective. I'm sure I'll be coming back to reflect on what you've said many times as time goes on. The link you provided is very helpful too. Thankyou so very much.
-----------
(((LikaNui)))

Again...

Please know I didn't intend to trigger any friction here. I hope I didn't. I'm just here to learn and hopefully make some friends along the way. Please let me know if I step out of line in any way.

Missouri Mama

[1stwahine]

Aloha Missouri MAMA! no pilikia (worry), this is normal. we have different views and sometimes we can seem like we are fighting with eash other...i take that back. sometimes we do, lucky this is on the internet, cause some would get their okoles (rear end in hawaiian) kicked. nevertheless, we are an ohana (family), dysfuctional as most families are and we love each other...at least I do. so, girlfriend...check out the other threads and go getum!

Once again, aloha to hawaii threads! ;)

1stwahine

[Missouri Mama]

((((1stwahine)))) Glad to hear it. Cool! :) ...and a big thanks for making me feel at home.

[kimo55]

and here's a very good article for all those that want to understand this foreign country just a little more...

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/current/ln/bob


link, current as of today. may be outdated soon.

[Missouri Mama]

Greetings everyone!

I wish to thank everyone for their help with this "newbie." This newbie has chosen to keep her family home (is that cheering going on in the background?) LOL

Extensive reading on this board enabled me to dig "deeper" in my research on Hawaii. One thing I never mentioned is that at a couple of points in my life...that's what I did...research for a few different groups/org.'s via the internet...so I used to be quite good. Takes me longer now (sometimes much much longer), but I can still ferret out the important stuff....just need topics & "key words" to go on.

A few keywords I ended up using: Hawaii + prejudice, haole, relocation, schools, homeless, "blue tarp," employment, natural resources, blog, business startup, economic growth & development, waste disposal, sovereign, favoritism, nightmare...the list went on.

I'm not going to say what I would normally after reaching the conclusions that I have. I really don't think this board would be receptive to it, nor really do I have a right to, I suppose. Suffice it to say Hawaii has problems (duh!) Doesn't everywhere? Not like Hawaii! It does seem to be divinely unique in a number of disturbing areas. Some of these deep-seated problems are of "haole" cause...just as many seem to be locally rooted. I very unique chemistry...mix of problems...one feeding off of and perpetuating the other in some regards. It's going to take a major revamping of your society in so many areas to fix these problems... I really feel bad for you guys (and that's not said sarcastically.)

Some of these problems, you guys seem to wish to cling to and are both knowingly & unknowlingly perpetuating. I've seen other ethnic groups & communities do this. It is a very, very sad thing....all of this + a situation where a group of people BOTH love and hate the source of their livelihood: "give me all of your money/ now go home." My own people, are among those I point a finger at, I do know a little about what I'm talking about. I'm going to stay "home" and live in an area where I can help and not be hated just for my very existence.

Enough.

Ya'll have a mess...and can keep it as far as I'm concerned. :D I'm thankful I discovered what I have before moving over. Neither will I be visiting. I'll keep my money to myself. One person doesn't impact your society much...but, when a flood of us does...whoo, you guys are going to have problems. You're beginning to see that now..it will grow. Like I said, I really do feel sorry for you guys.

I say thanks to all of you for your part in helping me to discover what I have...and I do so without malice. My very best to all of you, you have a VERY long road ahead of you.

ADMIN

Please feel free to terminate my account.

MM