End Of Times?

[1stwahine]

On the other thread Pope Benedict XVI, it started to become an exchange for Pope Jokes. I am not a Catholic. However, I respect everyone's spiritual beliefs even when they don't have one. I am a Christian and I do believe there is a GOD and that only through his son, Jesus can I be saved.

There have been many times in my life that I have hated God. One, being the death of my husband. I hated going to church and didn't understand the sermons cause I didn't want to. Today, that has changed for many reasons to explain.

I am not writing or trying to convience anyone to believe. Last days or End Of Times has been mentioned lately. I did a google and found an interesting site by Miles Stir. http://www.endtimesreport.com/ or http://www.endtimesreport.com/prophecy.html

[kimo55]

There have been many times in my life that I have hated God.

well, I hear he's not too happy about some of us 'down here' either.

I am not writing or trying to convience anyone to believe. Last days or End Of Times has been mentioned lately.

"Time" does not end.

[Glen Miyashiro]

"Time" does not end.Sure it does. It began once, didn't it? One day it'll end. I just don't think it'll be as soon as Aunty Lynn thinks.

[kimo55]

It began once, didn't it?

nope. a measure of 'time', yea, sure. But not 'time' itself.

[1stwahine]

Whatever time it will be. Now, tomarrow or twenty years from now...I am ready. While in my grave, I shall wake to the glorious 2nd coming of Jesus Christ. It's not what time I think it will occur. Nobody knows for certain. It is all by God's time, his time and our time is quite :) different from all accounts.

Ok, I btter go take a Lithium and Dapakote. I'm getting manic. ;)

Love and aloha,

Auntie Lynn aka Auntie Pupule

[kimo55]

ok, say this "end of times" actually comes.
and it is based on a certain leader of a relatively young religion. "jesus the christ."

Will this affect, to any degree (and if so, how?); other peoples of other countries and cultures, who have followed even earlier, much older religions and THEIR leaders? such as Gautama the Buddah.
Zorosaster.
Khrishna.
K'ung Fu Tzu
and all other deities, gods and goddesses from time immemorial.

[1stwahine]

Bro Kimo, I admit I am not an expert in this field of what you want to know. I only know from what I have learned, seen and have gone through my whole life...the awesome feelings of being touched by the holy spirit is beyond words or explanation. I've witness my own late husband's excitement to go to heaven and begging to stop his tube feedings.

Yes, many religions are far older that the one I believe in, which is simply that, "No one shall go before the father (GOD) but through his son, Jesus Christ." "Ask in the name of his son, Jesus, and it shall be granted."

So I will not further dispute what ever you may have to say on religion. It's your right and the way you view spiritual beliefs. Christianity vs other Religions. One day when we shall all see, if and when that "time" comes.

Aunty Lynn aka Auntie Pupule

[kimo55]

Yes, many religions are far older that the one I believe in, which is simply that, "No one shall go before the father (GOD) but through his son, Jesus Christ." "Ask in the name of his son, Jesus, and it shall be granted."



Can you envision the possibility of another religion's verse from their holy scripture going sumpin la deess:

"No one shall go before the father (GOD) but through his son, Gautama Buddah." "Ask in the name of his son, Gautama, and it shall be granted."

and if so, would that be less real than others? and why?
and if not, why not.
and if maybe, why maybe.

[1stwahine]

Gob bless you BroKimo. May the Holy Spirit touch you and make you see the truth and the light. Have a beautiful day. ;)

Auntie Lynn aka Auntie Pupule

[kimo55]

May the Holy Spirit touch you



aaahhh yes. wholly spirits. wheah's dat martini!?

[Menehune Man]

Can you envision the possibility of another religion's verse from their holy scripture going sumpin la deess:

"No one shall go before the father (GOD) but through his son, Gautama Buddah." "Ask in the name of his son, Gautama, and it shall be granted."

and if so, would that be less real than others? and why?
and if not, why not.
and if maybe, why maybe.

Throughout history there have been many wise, fearless of authority or other
non-conformist persons. The thing with Jesus is that He didn't show any attributes of insanity while stating that He was "The Way". Second: He didn't go for mankind's type of power or material gain which granted others also have not. Third: It's documented in Roman history of the true healing of the sick, lame, blind, etc. And lastly that He really isn't in the tomb of His burial. The old Testament has hundreds of prophesys that Jesus of Nazareth fulfilled. Some that were definitely beyond a mere man's control. So these things are why I believe that He is the Messiah (Christ). Amen

[kimo55]

The thing with Jesus is that He didn't show any attributes of insanity while stating that He was "The Way".



and you were there to gain ocular proof and personal confirmation of his sanity level?


do not ever forget; the gospels of jesus were written down ages after his death. By his followers. Who were physically able to claim any thing they want. and they did.
Think about it; they were not even around when he said "boo!".


and also do not ever forget the Bible and all its versions have been written and rewritten through the ages by monks who did nothing allll day long but hand write the dern thing over and over.
How fallible do you think they were?

As the bible has been translated and retranslated over and over through the ages, mathematical averages tell us errors will occur. The bible is not the word of god. It is the words of man (many men) who think they remember what some other dudes said this one dude may have said. and then, this went through the multitudinous translations and tampering until our modern age, where we have the most popular; the King James Bible. Nowhere near a shadow of the Aramaic, Hebrew, Greek original.
But don't forget: the first translation of the English Bible was initiated in 1388. Heck of a long time after the death of the guy they are quoting.

At the Second Council of Constantinople many passages and gospels were eradicated completely from the Bible for many reasons; quell arguments and divisiveness among and between churches and factions... get rid of much writings that just may offer the opportunity for the masses to gain too much knowledge = power...
(after all, the masses must be subjugate to the Church, lest it lose control over the minds of the proletariat. And we see the church has done a damn good job of keeping the lemmings in line; they have them chanting in unison; "God said it, I believe it and that settles it.")

Can you imagine a Bible almost twice the size it is now?
This could be YOUR bible. Instead it is in the form its in now because of simple human decisions. Judgements and dictates made by guys with their own agendas and of course, egos and human fallability, guys no better nor worse than anyone reading this.

[Pedro]

Kimo,
You are right that the bible may have been altered and changed to fit our livelihood. It was said that when Jesus was around a historian named Josephus Flavious documented and wrote a statement about Jesus being a new radicle. Inside of his statements, one of em mentioned something about Jesus being a healer but some scholars have conflicting debates as to wether he really wrote it, becuase as one scholar said it looked like it was secretly etched in. Christianity itself is an intermingling of Pagan holidays to get Some of the pagans to convert. But when I think of Christianity I think of what the Conquestidors(don't know if I spelled it right) did to the Mayans and the Aztecs, making them into slave's destroying their wonderful culture and slaughtering their village leaders all in pursuit of gold, and claiming land. That was not godly of them. But where you are coming from is from a biased point of veiw. Of course their is a lot of great religions dating back well before Christianity ever made it's triumphant appearance, of which I respect. These religions became the guidlines of peoples lives and the make up of their society, and establshment of their culture. Christianity is by in someways the samething, as before. It doesn't matter if you believe or if you have dogmatic beliefs about it or not. As long as people question the here after we will always have religions to answer it, but even with an answer you never know truelly untill you die and when you do die you can't come back to let other's know their is something after death because you would be alive. By beleiving in something greater give's a man purpose but not necessarily, but by beieving in himself. I respect Christianity because I have friend's who are Christian who have character, and are willing to help out with whatever problems I have. Yet I have friends who are aethius, Buddhis, what not and so forth who are good people. But if you should email again than I know you are seeking answers that you will never get from a book, from word of mouth, it is you who have to establish truth in yourself as to what you are and what you believe in.

[Menehune Man]

Wow Kimo,
I just wrote why "I" believe. You have the right to your own opinions. Attacking me and my personal beliefs in written form along with mocking all Christians is out of line. All religions have wonderful followers as well as people that aren't living their faith. It took 500 years before the first writings were done on Atila the Hun and most historians believe the life of Atila is acurate. It was only a few years after Jesus' death that the first writings happened. And many people that were there and knew all about it were still alive. I'm going back to writing poems. Have a great day.

[arrakis]

i believe in dioxyribonucleic acid and subatomic particles and quasars and neanderthals and the cenozoic era.
i don't believe in gods or ghosts and religions or superstitions.
with the growth in scientific knowledge and high tech gadgetry,man still has not evolved beyond that caveman who believed in spirits and that the sun was a god.

Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people.
Carl Sagan

But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.
Carl Sagan

[kimo55]

Kimo,
You are right that the bible may have been altered and changed to fit our livelihood.

"may have been"? make no mistake;
It has DEFINITELY been changed to fit much more than our livelihood.

Conquestidors(don't know if I spelled it right) did to the Mayans and the Aztecs, making them into slave's destroying their wonderful culture and slaughtering their village leaders all in pursuit of gold, and claiming land.


sounds familiar...

But where you are coming from is from a biased point of veiw.

well, that may be so, and that also may be said of each and every stance posited by each and every human alive on the earth; insofar as we are functioning with a finite mind, trying to understand the '"infinite".
And we all have varying degrees of understanding, and varying degrees of knowledge. But "where I am coming from" is also based on decades of study in the area of comparative religions (the exoteric and the esoteric) and researching the multitudinous monotheistic and polytheistic philosophies, religions, theologies of all ages and cultures. So I can safely assume I for one am just a wee bit less "biased" than most.
To study the religions of the world and their origins requires an open mind; an unprejudicial mental stance, one that is NOT settled on one perspective, and since THAT is what "biased' is, I think your description of me is very much off.

[kimo55]

You have the right to your own opinions. Attacking me and my personal beliefs in written form along with mocking all Christians is out of line.



Well, that is your opinion that I attacked you and mocked ALL christians.
Is is also my opinion that my point could well be beyond the grasp of those that prefer to be personally offended by, as you say "my own opinions" and the general comments and observations on the general mass followers of a particulary young cult...

[kimo55]

i believe in dioxyribonucleic acid and subatomic particles and quasars and neanderthals and the cenozoic era.
i don't believe in gods or ghosts and religions or superstitions.


There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

William Shakespeare, "Hamlet"

[Pedro]

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

William Shakespeare, "Hamlet"


Make no mistake I am begining to like you. But like you I have no answers and so much questions that go unspoken, unheard of and laughed quietly in the dark. But you and I will get no answers, well at least not now and by bashing Christianity we don't get any more answers but mixed feelings and sore bruises. When I am a hundred maybe I will have life's answer's and maybe not. Maybe not. Shucks!

I believe that wether their is a God or not their is a reason why we live. And everybody has a passion in life that make's them strong and able to perservere. One of my questions is when the chips are down and you about had enough how do you go on? Their is no answer... When you lost everything in your life worth losing. What is their to gain by going on? No Answer.... Does Science have any answers? Do religion? It's all up to the individual.

[kimo55]

Make no mistake I am begining to like you. But like you I have no answers and so much questions that go unspoken,



for me, it is not so much a desparate need to have definite questions definitively answered, as much as having an internal, spiritual, synoptic perspective and higher understanding of the so-called "spiritual realm", much more than I did have before all these decades of study. Just to have a feeling of, "ok yea, this perspective feels more, well... 'logical' than say, the junk that was thrown at me for so many years by various and sundry dogmatic proselytizers from all corners, or the mormon teachings i was surrounded by, small keed time.



by bashing Christianity we don't get any more answers but mixed feelings and sore bruises.


I don't see it so much as straightforward "bashing" as much as a proportionate response to years of contact with an amazingly pushy, arrogant, ethnocentric bully of a cult with the highest level of infighting seen by all humanity.



One of my questions is when the chips are down and you about had enough how do you go on? Their is no answer...



no, there are answers. many.
one may think; "ok, well it COULD be worse. So be happy it ain't!
Looka da odda guy; he get no arms and feet. And he feels pity for the guy who can't see."

Or:
"eh, that which does NOT kill us, makes us stronger.
I get through this I am stronger in this area."



When you lost everything in your life worth losing. What is their to gain by going on?



Hopefully, you come to the realization there are others with even less, and they are imbued with a happier disposition than you have. So what does that make you!?
You see how much of a real person you can be by rebounding and trying to rebuild.
If not, you goin be a freakin crybaby and give up?! what dey goin say on da odda side?!

[kimo55]

Christianity itself is an intermingling of Pagan holidays to get Some of the pagans to convert.


that is a what could be commonly referred to as an ethnocentric view. These pagan holidays came before christianity.


I think we touch on it in past threads:

http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showthread.php?t=4187

http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showthread.php?t=2451


Of course their is a lot of great religions dating back well before Christianity ever made it's triumphant appearance, of which I respect. These religions became the guidlines of peoples lives and the make up of their society, and establshment of their culture.

and some of these may have made the incredible claim that THEY are the only way (although I doubt it.)
What would make THAT religion any less or more real as the one based on a guy 2000 year ago, whose followers tell us is the ONLY way?

[Pedro]

for me, it is not so much a desparate need to have definite questions definitively answered, as much as having an internal, spiritual, synoptic perspective and higher understanding of the so-called "spiritual realm", much more than I did have before all these decades of study. Just to have a feeling of, "ok yea, this perspective feels more, well... 'logical' than say, the junk that was thrown at me for so many years by various and sundry dogmatic proselytizers from all corners, or the mormon teachings i was surrounded by, small keed time.


I don't see it so much as straightforward "bashing" as much as a proportionate response to years of contact with an amazingly pushy, arrogant, ethnocentric bully of a cult with the highest level of infighting seen by all humanity.



no, there are answers. many.
one may think; "ok, well it COULD be worse. So be happy it ain't!
Looka da odda guy; he get no arms and feet. And he feels pity for the guy who can't see."

Or:
"eh, that which does NOT kill us, makes us stronger.
I get through this I am stronger in this area."



Hopefully, you come to the realization there are others with even less, and they are imbued with a happier disposition than you have. So what does that make you!?
You see how much of a real person you can be by rebounding and trying to rebuild.
If not, you goin be a freakin crybaby and give up?! what dey goin say on da odda side?!

Kimo,

I hear you on that one.

[Menehune Man]

What's your opinion on how this world will end? If at all? Do you think something will happen from the earth's natural disasters or from a celestrial event? Something us humans might do? Or Jesus coming back? An inquiring mind wants to know.

[Glen Miyashiro]

I always liked Robert Frost's answer.

Some say the world will end in fire,
Some say in ice.
From what I've tasted of desire
I hold with those who favor fire.
But if it had to perish twice,
I think I know enough of hate
To say that for destruction ice
Is also great
And would suffice.

[Pedro]

Well I like to think "If it ENDs it ENDS." Nothing last forever. I don't know how it will end but all good things must come to an END. I just hope the human race doesn't end once the World goes. Ever heard of the Darwin saying "Survival Of The Fittest."? I just hope when the world ends I am in the most deepest part of my sleep. :D

[Glen Miyashiro]

What's your opinion on how this world will end? If at all? Do you think something will happen from the earth's natural disasters or from a celestrial event? Something us humans might do? Or Jesus coming back? An inquiring mind wants to know.But seriously, what do you mean by "end"? If you're talking about the total destruction of the planet, be advised that it's not that easy to do (see How to destroy the Earth (http://ned.ucam.org/%7Esdh31/misc/destroy.html) for details). Or do you mean the end of all life on earth, or the end of the human species, or the end of modern civilization? Each is progressively easier to do. :D

[newroots]

the end would probably be how its described in the bible.

the sun will turn black , moon will turn red , stars will fall , people would run try to hide. father made a good point when he said , we've been in the end times since the jesus died on the cross. but we might be in the end days in the end times. thiers signs for it , in the bible it says , when war is breaking out blah blah blah , but he also said about the signs.

'when the flowers bloom you know its time for spring. when these signs appear you know its time for the second coming' ... not quoted in the exact words just in bad memory.

timothy 2 chapter 3 made a interesting statement when he wrote about 'dangers of the last days' here it is...

'but understand this , there will be terrifying times in the last days people will be self-centered and lovers of money , proud , haughty , abusive , disobedient to their parents , ungrateful , irreligious , callous , implacable , slanderous , licentious , brutal , hating what is good , traitors , reckless , conceited , lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of god , as they make a pretense of relgion but deny its power .'

thats quoted word for word. page 1369

[Glen Miyashiro]

Oh! You mean like here (http://www.e-sheep.com/apocamon/)? :D

[Menehune Man]

[QUOTE=Glen Miyashiro]But seriously, what do you mean by "end"?
The question asks... What's your opinion on how this world will end? If at all? So I'm not going to put any parameters on what "end" means to the responders. What about the possability of self anihilation, if we continue to pollute our world someday it will become uninhabitable. If the Earth still existed but with no life aboard, I think that is an end. But I hope that God saves us from that situation. Of course there's the very real possability of what the Bible tells us. And that's the opinion I choose to go with.