How do locals feel about visitors or people moving from the mainland?

[meanoharm]

Hi I have heard different things about how Hawaiin locals feel about visitors, or new comers that move from the states to Hawaii.
I have studied the history of Hawaii and am aware of how white people from the states horribly treated the native people of Hawaii, and I am terribly sorry about that.
I have heard that locals don't care for caucasion people due to the over crowding of their land and other things. Is this true?
Ive heard things like haole go home? and why are you here?
Are these true?
Can you guys confirm your exsperiences or how you feel about this subject.?
I dont mean to anger anyone, I would just like a first hand response from individuals who actually live in Hawaii. thank you

[LikaNui]

or new comers that move from the states to Hawaii. (...)
I have studied the history of Hawaii and am aware of how white people from the states (...)
To avoid offending anyone, the very first thing you've gotta learn is that Hawai`i IS one of the "states". You'll want to perhaps use the word "mainland" instead.
I'm sure others will have time to give you lengthier answers than this but the bottom line is: yes, due to already overcrowded conditions and other factors such as mainlanders usually feeling they know more than locals, it takes a while for newcomers to be welcomed.

[pzarquon]

I would say that you have friendly people and unpleasant people wherever you go. It's the attitude and openness you bring with you that will dictate your experience.

You might hear "Haole Go Home!" You might also find a welcoming family, great friends, and an unmatched, diverse, wonderful mix of cultures that'll enrich and change your life.

My primary recommendations would be to research, research, research before even thinking about getting on a plane, make a long, tourist-schtick-free visit or two, and have as many ducks in a row beforehand as possible (housing, job, professional and personal network). For some, the culture shock is nearly fatal, and the cost of living can finish you off!

Of course, many people have shown up, sight unseen, and done quite well. (My wife, for example!) But as the odds may be against you, it pays to really know what you're getting into. The worst thing you can do is arrive without a plan, end up broke and on the street, unable to even afford a return flight and becoming a burden on an already overwhelmed system.

[kimo55]

I have heard that locals don't care for caucasion people due to the over crowding of their land and other things. Is this true?
Ive heard things like haole go home? and why are you here?
Are these true?
Can you guys confirm your exsperiences or how you feel about this subject.?



Try search through H.T. You will find many answers to your queries.
Here are a few threads to start with...

http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showthread.php?p=22385

http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showthread.php?t=5090

http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showthread.php?t=2529

http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showthread.php?t=3077

http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showthread.php?t=2662

http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showthread.php?t=290

[Glen Miyashiro]

To avoid offending anyone, the very first thing you've gotta learn is that Hawai`i IS one of the "states". You'll want to perhaps use the word "mainland" instead.I dunno about that. Last year I said (http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showthread.php?t=1652):

When I first left the islands to attend college in California, I had a big Hawai'i chip on my shoulder, and made it a point to correct people who said things like "going back to the States" when they meant "the mainland", or those annoying mail order policies that categorized Hawaiian shipments as "international" deliveries.

But as time went on, I realized that Hawai'i really is very different from "the mainland". In fact I rarely say "the mainland" any more when referring to the USA's North American states; instead I just say "America". Because America isn't Hawaii's main land. And because Hawai'i is not America the way the rest of the USA is America. Without getting too much into sovereignty issues, we really are like a different country in almost every way.So I don't blame people for saying "the states" when they mean America. Hawai'i is about as American as Gibraltar is British.

[meanoharm]

I would like to say thank you for replying to my question.
I have researched the history of Hawaii and in a way this is getting a good understanding to how local individuals percieve things.
I did not mean to offend anyone by naming the mainland, North American states, or America or how you would like to refer it as, as "the states."
Now I know to refer North America as the mainland. thanks
I am just curious about the culture and way of life.

I find cultures from Hawaii, Somao, New Zealand and other Polynesian cultures interesting.
I do feel as though I am walking on egg shells in a way. Meaning I have to be very specific and careful with how I word things.
I dont mean any harm I would just like to learn.
I would appeciate anyone elses input on the subject. thanks

[Menehune Man]

I'm a haole raised in Hawai'i. I always loved the island music and ladies. Had some difficulties and heard all those "lines". All through school time Lincoln, Stevenson and Roosevelt I got into fights trying to stand up for my rights. I didn't understand why I couldn't play ukulele with the boys. Yes, I did learn to play. Not as good as Isreal or Jake though. I always felt, "Hey I didn't do what happened so long ago" But now as an adult I truly can understand and feel sorry for the situation for the Hawai'ians. While I'm just trying to survive. I don't have any "special" programs to learn a trade or buy a house so am just getting by like most of the residents of Hawai'i. I get along with everyone now and I think that has to do with truly caring for them along with sharing what God has given me. Aloha is a way of life.

[meanoharm]

thanks buddy2 i appreciate it.
I am a huge believer in respect, and when i travel or am in a new environment I try to learn from the individuals who are most familiar from the area.
From researching the history of Hawaii I am aware of the Bayonet Constitution and the bad impressions that some cacausion travelors make.
The way the American Gov't stripped the Hawaiin monarchy of its authority on its own land is totally wrong and I am ashamed to hear that the US govt did that.
I would like to know that if someone as myself who is caucasion, respectful, listens and thinks before speaking would do in an environment like the one in Hawaii?
I know that everywhere you go in the world, there are friendly people and there are jerks.
I think I understand the hostility that Hawaiins may have towards caucasions, I see it as the caucausions forced the Hawaiin culture to give up there land and way of life which they had been living for centuries, so that the caucasion could reep the benifits of Hawaiis location(military use), economic purposes(trades such as sugar), and the land(obviously it is very beautiful)
Is my information wrong? if it is please correct me, thanks

[junebloom]

Hello or Aloha
I've been reading a lot of the threads hear. I read quite a bit on some of the problems between whites and hawaiians and maybe a couple of other races and, I'm wondering, how do hawaiians accept african americans. Are there many in Hawaii? I've been studying the history of Hawaii and some of the culture. One of the things I read about in my study about Hawaii is that the people over there are serious about Ohana which to my understanding means family and how the Hawaiian people are so welcoming. Is this really true? I talked to a couple of people and asked them how are blacks treated over there. If they are accepted whether living or visiting. Maybe some others can give me some feedback.

:) Peace and Goodwill to All

[Paul]

There aren't too many blacks in Hawaii and as a consequence many here are ignorant about blacks. I remember a few years ago a high school was sued for putting an insulting caption on a picture of black students in their yearbook. I don't remember exactly what it said but it had to do with watermelon and fried chicken. Many locals also freely use the "N" word.

There has also been cases where blacks have sued hotels and and other establishments for discrimination. The latest being the former Washington DC police chief (Moose) sueing a hotel.

[1stwahine]

There aren't too many blacks in Hawaii and as a consequence many here are ignorant about blacks.[/QUOTE=Paul]

Aunty Lynn says: eh, das not nice. we are a state that have the most mixed cultural backrounds in the America....and we are not ignorant about blacks! :mad:

[QUOTE=Paul] There has also been cases where blacks have sued hotels and and other establishments for discrimination. The latest being the former Washington DC police chief (Moose) sueing a hotel.

wat has this got to do in how we feel about others coming to live here in Hawai'i? :confused:

get a grip. :rolleyes:

[Paul]

wat has this got to do in how we feel about others coming to live here in Hawai'i? :confused:

get a grip. :rolleyes:

I was just responding to Junebloom. She asked how Hawaiians feel about African Americans. I didn't mean to anger anyone and I myself never use the N word. Those incidents I described really did happen.


Aunty Lynn says: eh, das not nice. we are a state that have the most mixed cultural backrounds in the America....and we are not ignorant about blacks!

What has nice got to do with it? Racism is UGLY. We may be the most mixed but there still aren't that many blacks here. You've never heard locals use the "N" word?

[kimo55]

wat has this got to do in how we feel about others coming to live here in Hawai'i? :confused:

get a grip. :rolleyes:



chill, girl. let people discuss.



********


As far as African Americans, here, they are limited in number relatively, but as we have...what's that term; a "racial metling pot", they are seen as no different, no better or worse than any other race. best thing; judge people as individuals, not by their race , religion, dress style, sexual preference...

[Glen Miyashiro]

I'm wondering, how do hawaiians accept african americans. Are there many in Hawaii?There aren't many, but African Americans have been in the islands almost as long as white Americans have. UH professor Kathryn Waddell Takara (http://www.hawaii.edu/is/faculty/takara.htm) is in the middle of writing a book, Shades of Darkness in Paradise, on the history of African Americans in Hawai'i. (I got the title from the "current projects" section of her CV at her web site.) Considering her own history and experience, it should be an interesting read.

[Paul]

Hey everyone,
I'm sorry for pissing some of you off which was not my intention. Read the following article and tell me it's not true. We may dismiss it as ignorance but it's still racism.

Isles turn blind eye to racism, some say (http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2005/Feb/03/ln/ln01p.html)

[Glen Miyashiro]

Paul, you must have missed this thread (http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showthread.php?t=4666) about the Radford incident.

[Paul]

Paul, you must have missed this thread (http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showthread.php?t=4666) about the Radford incident.


Yeah I'm a newbie here. Perhaps I should'nt have posted on such a controversial topic but I wasn't going to tell Junebloom about the tourism industry created image of Hawaii, being a "melting pot" where all races get along in perfect peace and harmony.

[kimo55]

I wasn't going to tell Junebloom about the tourism industry created image of Hawaii, being a "melting pot" where all races get along in perfect peace and harmony.


for years now, the tourism industry amplifies and "packages" for their own purposes, what we have here as distinctly different ways of living and relating on the islands. Concepts such as what is now known as "the aloha spirit"... and "ohana" (no child get left behind, as the disney corp. has it...)

I have been here most all my life but spent years now and then on the mainland and I can tell ya; it may not be "perfect peace and harmony" among all differing races, but the situation here is a damned sight better and more mellow than much of the mainland.

[Paul]

for years noiw, the tourism industry amplifies and "packages" for their own purposes, what we have here as distinctly different ways of living and relating on the islands. Concepts such as what is now known as "the aloha spirit"... and "ohana" (no child get left behind, as the disney corp. has it...)

I have been here most all my life but spent years now and then on the mainland and I can tell ya; it may not be "perfect peace and harmony" among all differing races, but the situation here is a damned sight better and more mellow than much of the mainland.

True, as I read in the other thread, people in Hawaii have always joked around with stereotypes and it has all been in fun. It's only recently that it has become offensive. We can make jokes about Filipinos eating black dog but the minute we use the words fried chicken and watermelon in association with African American, we get in big trouble.

[meanoharm]

hmmm maybe this thread has gotten out of hand.
I initially posted it to learn, but it seems to kind of gone the subject of racism.
Is it possible to maybe give the outlooks of the locals have on tourist or people moving from the mainland to Hawaii?

Is the outlook that tourists and mainlander's are invading their land?

Also I was trying to understand the feelings toward negative feelings toward haoles. Ive read the past threads and researched the history of hawaii. My understanding is that Caucasions/Haoles/mainlanders have forcefully taken over hawaii trying to change their culture?
is this the correct thinking? please correct me if i am wrong, thanks

[kimo55]

My understanding is that Caucasions/Haoles/mainlanders have forcefully taken over hawaii trying to change their culture?
is this the correct thinking? please correct me if i am wrong, thanks
well, I see it this way, tho others may say there is no 'correct thinking' only differing perspectives and opinions and points of view.

[meanoharm]

Kimo, your awesome, thank you. haha you responded to my question.
you seem to be outgoing and truthful, and I respect that. thanks

by the way i like your name :)

[kimo55]

you seem to be outgoing and truthful, and I respect that. thanks





I am actually very shy and introverted. But when i see a social injustice or imbalance I gotta raise hell.
(so; where do YOU stand on Jimmy Buffet?!
nananah jezz keeding!)

[junebloom]

Well, first of all let me apologize for lighting a spark so to speak. It's just that I hear so much about other races experiences in Hawaii I was just wondering would I have to face a lot of racial injustice. I'm from the south so it's not like I haven't dealt with it before. But it's not like how it use to be hear black people really are less tolerant of racism and can pretty much hold their own. I must say I am a little disappointed that this goes on in Hawaii. I was really excited about the hype that people are close and stories that newcomers are welcome by fruit being placed at the door as a sign of extending a hand of friendship in the local neighborhoods. But pretty much what I am hearing here is that Hawaii has it's share of radial prejudice just like everywhere else. I did read some of the articles that were suggested. You know Blacks and Hawaiians have some what in common dealing with
our ancestrial backgrounds you think about it no punt intended to anyone . GOD wants all races to get along but anyway thank you so much for the input. You all have given me what seems to be a more realistic perspective.
Thank You

[cezanne]

I got no problems with that. If anything its when people from the mainland (caucasian or not) bring the attitude with them. Over here, it's not "all about me" as much as there... but yeah it's getting there and I wouldn't put the blame on incoming mainlanders for that.

This is coming from a non-haole, non-Hawaiian "local"...

[cezanne]

But GOD wants all races to get along

... and Rodney King. :D

[junebloom]

Okay Rodney king :)

[kimo55]

our ancestrial backgrounds you think about it no punt intended to anyone .



(??????)


GOD wants all races to get along


could be... but since captain cook, the gods are pretty pissed at da haoles.

[Glen Miyashiro]

Well, first of all let me apologize for lighting a spark so to speak. It's just that I hear so much about other races experiences in Hawaii I was just wondering would I have to face a lot of racial injustice. I'm from the south so it's not like I haven't dealt with it before. But it's not like how it use to be hear black people really are less tolerant of racism and can pretty much hold their own. I must say I am a little disappointed that this goes on in Hawaii. I was really excited about the hype that people are close and stories that newcomers are welcome by fruit being placed at the door as a sign of extending a hand of friendship in the local neighborhoods. But pretty much what I am hearing here is that Hawaii has it's share of radial prejudice just like everywhere else. I did read some of the articles that were suggested. You know Blacks and Hawaiians have some what in common dealing with
our ancestrial backgrounds you think about it no punt intended to anyone . GOD wants all races to get along but anyway thank you so much for the input. You all have given me what seems to be a more realistic perspective.
Thank YouJune, no apologies needed. You asked and we told. :D

I'd love to say that black people don't face prejudice here but it's not true. And it's not just from white folks; Asians (like my family) are just as guilty. You'd think we'd know better from being discriminated against in the past ourselves, but apparently not. But I think that as others have said here before, if you come expecting prejudice, you'll find it. If you come expecting a warm welcome, well, you'll find that too.

[Miulang]

Xenophobia is caused not so much by ignorance as by fear of someone different from you. Most of the Black Americans who reside in Hawai'i are in the military, which brings along with it its own set of problems. I think the locals don't mind Black American tourists because after they spend all their money, they go back to wherever they came from.

If someone you don't know doesn't speak like you or look like you, your immediate instinct is going to be not to trust that person. However, once you get to know that person, the fear goes away, and at the very least, you tolerate that person. So locals have to at least be willing to try to understand the newcomers and tourists rather than automatically discount all of them as being bad. I mean, there are "bad" apples everywhere.

It would be nice if in Hawai'i the discrimination was against individuals who act badly and not a whole race or culture. That would make Hawai'i a whole lot more civilized than anywhere else in the US.

Miulang

[kimo55]

if you come expecting prejudice, you'll find it. If you come expecting a warm welcome, well, you'll find that too.

in general, life is a self fulfilling prophecy.

[helen]

I sort of notice any friction on a group of people is usually based on where they are from (or what part of Hawaii they currently live) as opposed to their ethic background. Sure sometimes racial slurs get said but that's secondary.

Neighborhood pride I guess. It wouldn't be strange for instance on the island of Kauai that a person from Lihue, not liking someone from Kapaa (which is about 6 to 8 miles away) which in turn not liking someone from Waimea (30 to 40 miles in the other direction), take these three people and place them on the island of Oahu and they are the best buddies. Of course they eye anyone else with suspiscion and likewise anyone from Oahu think these three people from Kauai are weird.

[meanoharm]

hmm interesting
I have a friend from the mainland that lived in Hawaii for a year when attending college.
He had mentioned to me that he had been asked by local Hawaiians
"what are you doing here?"
I was just wondering where this question may come from?
Is it uncommon to travel? or hard to believe somone would move?

[kimo55]

He had mentioned to me that he had been asked by local Hawaiians
"what are you doing here?"
I was just wondering where this question may come from?
Is it uncommon to travel? or hard to believe somone would move?



if you look at the question, you see it has nothing to do with relocation as much as the motive that made someone come to the island.
and why they are here.
and what they are doing here.
WHY did you move here.
"what are you doing... here."
got it?

[meanoharm]

uhhhh
i might be a little slow. haha
I dont totally get what your saying kimo.
So this question is more on the lines of being suspicious?
Wondering what your purpose is on the island?

[kimo55]

uhhhh
i might be a little slow. haha
I dont totally get what your saying kimo.
So this question is more on the lines of being suspicious?
Wondering what your purpose is on the island?



Don't be surprised to hear kama'aina claim to be firm believers in learning the lessons that history affords. Do you blame many islanders for not trusting the word and motives of foreigners?

[meanoharm]

Do you blame many islanders for not trusting the word and motives of foreigners?

From researching the history I can see where the suspicion would come from.

I wasnt sure if it was something along those lines or
that it was actually hard for locals to understand why someone would want to move from their home, since Hawaii is so beautiful, maybe a thought of moving would cross a locals mind.

Can you explain to me, if a none local is in Hawaii, is interested in learning the culture, and is respectful, would this be taken into consideration by locals?
Due to me not living in the environment I have a hard time understanding.

[kimo55]

Can you explain to me, if a non-local is in Hawaii, is interested in learning the culture, and is respectful, would this be taken into consideration by locals?


It depends entirely on the particular "local".
Some may not care a bit, some may be suspicious, some may be impressed, some may say; "well ain't that spayshull! isn't that just too dear" or others may say "what's he up to?" in feigned interest.

(many kama'aina really don't care what goes on with haoles, or mainlanders and don't keep up with much of what occupies the time and mind of them. But among locals some subects come up as in when we were talking story in a carving class a little while ago, and the general consensus it it is really depressing to see cheap plastic tikis and Ku ashtrays and other religious symbology pressed thru the mass merchandise machine,... imagery of the ancient and contemprary Gods of Polynesia, used as cheap decor. This kinda thing burns one's ass. Just one of the many things that just bum out locals and help to disregard much of what amerika is all about. (not all, of course, but much.)

Some may say; "so what if they are interested in learning the culture". ainokea. let them walk the talk. sincerety isn't words or the actions of a weekend or a month.

who da hell knows what would be taken into consideration. and who knows if internally, it is taken into consideration? regardless of external appearances?

It may take years and years of "proving oneself" before any trust is gained. Ya can't just fly over to Hawaii, walk in some sovereignty parade, take a lauhala weaving class and then say; "ok, that should do it; I am now
"kama'aina at heart" and I hope they are fooled when other clueless Joes call me "Hawaiian at heart", too.
nope. Those concepts and terms are insulting, affrontive, arrogant and repellant.

[DaveNSoKona]

Tourists drive too damn slow. If you want to sightsee pull over and let the long line of cars behind you pass. :)

[dee_diddy]

I'm a little impartial on this subject. First of all, I'm a caucasian/filipino born and raised on Maui. The caucasian shows more than the filipino, so I constantly hear the word "haole." I don't think most people in Hawaii know the true meaning of the word, but I'm getting off course. I don't mind mainlanders moving to Hawaii, as long as they respect the locals and their property, and as long as job oppurtunities and politics stay fair. I don't really have much knowledge on this subject, but it seems like the influx of people moving to Hawaii is causing problems for the locals. I understand why locals would be upset, but I look at it with different light. I see it as an oppurtunity for the people of Hawaii to prove that they're just intelligent as mainlanders. One problem I have with all the building going on (especially on Maui), is that it's starting to take away from the beauty that is Hawaii. I guess it would've happened eventually anyway! Plus, the Earth only has about 5 billion more years of life. LOL

My name is Darin. I am 19 years old, from Kahului, Maui.

[kimo55]

I guess it would've happened eventually anyway! Plus, the Earth only has about 5 billion more years of life.



that kinda apathy is one of the many problems and helps the cause of overdevelopment and the destruction of our islands.
"aaah well. can't stop progress. It's gonna happen anyway especially after my small speck o' life is over. so why bother with anything except expressing this fatalistic perspective".

[Miulang]

Well, Kimo, since Darin stated he was 19, it's easy to understand why he feels the way he does. Give him another 19 years and a family and responsibility and I think he'll change his attitude. ;) And he has started to notice the big changes on Mau'i, so I think there's hope for him yet.

Miulang

[kimo55]

Give him another 19 years and a family and responsibility and I think he'll change his attitude.


by then it may be too late. Multiply this by the rest of the population who just start to give a s#!t only at the age of 38 and on, and ya got one ba-a-a-a-a-ad situation.
Like a buncha sheep influencing and following each other's thought processes, and their offspring's too.

[Miulang]

by then it may be too late. Multiply this by the rest of the population who gives a s#!t only at the age of 38 and on, and ya got one ba-a-a-a-a-ad situation.
Like a buncha sheep influencing and following each other's thought processes, and their offspring's too.
From my own experience, I never really thought much about my life in Hawai'i while I lived there. Took everything for granted. Didn't think much about Hawai'i while I was in college, either. I think it started to sink in finally when I was in my 30s and I came back to Maui annually that it dawned on me how the changes that were taking place were going to eventually destroy everything that I grew up with. At that point, I CARED. But at that point, I wasn't living in Hawai'i, so what could I do?

I don't know of many serious minded 20 somethings who care about more than themselves and their iPods right now. Do you?

Miulang

[kimo55]

small kid time, we would do these field trips to da Bishop museum. learn about the history. influx of missionaries. destruction of the Hawaiian religion, culture, how Hula and speaking Hawaiian language was kapu.
That bothered me even at 9 years of age. Learned in intermediate and high school, how all the development is changing Honolulu, the impact on all levels.

[Miulang]

small kid time, we would do these field trips to da Bishop museum. learn about the history. influx of missionaries. destruction of the Hawaiian religion, culture, how Hula and speaking Hawaiian language was kapu.
That bothered me even at 9 years of age. Learned in intermediate and high school, how all the development is changing Honolulu, the impact on all levels.
Den you were one special kid back small kid time. Us kids on Maui never had dakine education. :D But betta late den neva, yeah? ;)

Miulang

[dee_diddy]

that kinda apathy is one of the many problems and helps the cause of overdevelopment and the destruction of our islands.
"aaah well. can't stop progress. It's gonna happen anyway especially after my small speck o' life is over. so why bother with anything except expressing this fatalistic perspective".
Whoa. I didn't sign up here to get my views shredded to pieces. I figured I'd share the perspective of a person my age. I'm pretty intelligent, and I know how certain things work. I know that the United States has a rapidly growing population. Whether it be births outweiighing deaths, or immigrants settling in our country. Did you know the United States has a net gain of 1 person per every 11 seconds? With growing rates like that, we have to build. There's really no way to control the population in a democratic society. And to be quite honest, I don't blame people for choosing Hawaii to live than anywhere else in the US. It's beautiful. It's a lot more expensive, yes, but I would much rather pay more to live here than live some place like downtown Los Angeles where people are popping people on the streets, police sirens sound all day, the pollution is over the top, etc.... I do think about how future generations are going to have to live, and I know there's a possibility Hawaii might turn into a mini L.A., but I generally think humans are smart, and they'll find a way to overcome these obstacles, just as we're trying to over come ours.

By the way, the fact about the Earth only having about 5 billion years of life left is true. I learned it in my Astronomy class. :cool:

[helen]

Not to change the subject but that 5 billion years worth of lifetime is for the Sun not the Earth. The Earth could go sooner due to other things like collisions between it and comets, asteroids or other planets that come our way, or the Sun could go off sooner than the estimated 5 billion year lifetime.

[kimo55]

>Whoa. I didn't sign up here to get my views shredded to pieces.

your views remain intact where they are.

>I know there's a possibility Hawaii might turn into a mini L.A.,

this is one view I am against sharing any apathy toward. or "shredded to pieces" as you have it.

>but I generally think humans are smart, and they'll find a way to
>overcome these obstacles, just as we're trying to over come ours.

they will find a way to satisfy their insatiable greed and prove they have dominion over the earth. They are "smart" in that way. They are "dumb" when it comes to having any foresight as to what kind of earth they will be leaving their grandchildren. They are not at all "smart" in being objective toward their shortcomings, rather, they think all will turn out ok, (cuz they be smart and) cuz ya cain't do nuttin bouddit anyway.

>By the way, the fact about the Earth only having about 5 billion years of
>life left is true. I learned it in my Astronomy class.

that's a very nice fact and we do appreciate your sharing it.

[Palolo Joe]

But at that point, I wasn't living in Hawai'i, so what could I do? Umm... move back?

[dee_diddy]

Not to change the subject but that 5 billion years worth of lifetime is for the Sun not the Earth. The Earth could go sooner due to other things like collisions between it and comets, asteroids or other planets that come our way, or the Sun could go off sooner than the estimated 5 billion year lifetime.
Yep. I totally screwed up on that. The Sun has a REAMINING lifespan of an estimated 5 billion years. It's already about 5 billion year old. Eventually it'll turn into a blue giant and yada yada yada. I doubt anything will ever hit the Earth though (comets, asteroids, meteors, and especially other planets). We can see so far out, it's amazing. Wasn't there a thing on the news about a week ago where they sent something to impact a foreign object that was on course to hit the moon? We'll follow that technique until the sun swallows the planets, and ultimately implodes.

[dee_diddy]

this is one view I am against sharing any apathy toward. or "shredded to pieces" as you have it.

they will find a way to satisfy their insatiable greed and prove they have dominion over the earth. They are "smart" in that way. They are "dumb" when it comes to having any foresight as to what kind of earth they will be leaving their grandchildren. They are not at all "smart" in being objective toward their shortcomings, rather, they think all will turn out ok, (cuz they be smart and) cuz ya cain't do nuttin bouddit anyway.

that's a very nice fact and we do appreciate your sharing it.
Honestly, since you seem so into this subject, say you were given the power to control every aspect of today's society, except limiting population like they do in China, what would you do? of course being totally non-apathetic.

[Miulang]

Umm... move back?
Planning to move back in 5 years...if there's anything left to move back to! :mad:

Miulang

[Miulang]

Honestly, since you seem so into this subject, say you were given the power to control every aspect of today's society, except limiting population like they do in China, what would you do? of course being totally non-apathetic.
Darin, there's no need to hypothesize about this...it is already happening in this country under the current Administration. Do not delude yourself into thinking this is a "free" country anymore. With the Patriot Act and other such subversive intrusions into our personal freedoms and the lack of candor on the part of the White House, we are very very close to becoming a fascist state. If you want a future for yourself (and you certainly have many more years of living to do), think about how you can change what's going on in Kahului now. For instance, were you part of that 600-800 person demonstration last week along Hina Ave. to make the public aware of the lolo guy who's been attacking women around Hale Mahaolu? Do you have elderly grandmas and grandpas who could be vulnerable like those 2 ladies were? Making changes in your own community is a good way to start on the road to being "un-apathetic" as you put it. Every little good thing that happens translates into being a good thing for the whole world in general, because we are all so closely tied together these days.

Miulang

P.S. If in the new Supreme Court, the Roe v. Wade decision (about the woman's right to choose to have an abortion) is struck down, there goes the right of reproductive choice for American women. If the White House is able to sneak in a pro-life leaning Justice, that really WILL be the beginning of the end of American freedom.

[kimo55]

Do not delude yourself into thinking this is a "free" country anymore.



exactly. as Bill Maher says;
This aint a free country. It's just somewhat free-er than most.

[meanoharm]

So would the local Hawaiians say that they feel the "Aloha Spirit" has been takin advantage of by foriegners?

[Miulang]

I dunno about the Hawaiians, but the locals would probably say "whatevas". We were all just raised to be courteous to others, but the Mainland guys who are not brought up that way (they're often questioning the motives for people being "nice" to them), probably make too many assumptions about the "goodness" of the locals. And as with any culture "different" from the prevailing one, all it takes is one pilau act from an outsider to cause the locals to resent all of them. Sad, but true. I learned a long time ago that when I travel someplace I've never been before, the LAST thing I wanna do is make myself conspicuous. But a lot of visitors and Mainland people who visit or move to the 'aina think their way is always better and they want the locals to know it, and that's when they get in big pilikia.

One other way of thinking about it is this: had it not been for the "spirit of Aloha" accorded to the white folk way back in the 1800s, Hawai'i might still be a sovereign nation. There might even be more kanaka maoli around if the white man's diseases had not decimated the population.

Miulang

[DaveNSoKona]

There might even be more kanaka maoli around if the white man's diseases had not decimated the population.
Miulang

That's a BIG if. What a fairytale. Hawaii somehow, miraculously, avoiding the fate of all indigenous cultures throughout the expansion of the western powers from the 17th-19th century and the Japanese in the 20th century.

The diseases suffered by indigenous cultures was an evolutionary readjustment to correct a condition brought on by isolation, not a curse inflicted by the white man. White civilizations suffered the same fate in the Middle Ages with diseases.

The real crime was the cultural genocide perpetrated by well meaning Christians (insert missionaries). Although even they did some good for Hawaiians left in the lurch by the abolition of the kapu system.

I'm not happy it happened but I think it was unavoidable. To suggest that any Hawaiian Monarch could have avoided annexation is a little harsh on the Ali'i that had to contend with it in those days. It is a wonder no more bloodshed took place than it did.

Unfortunately, if the US hadn't annexed it, Hawaii was too strategically located to remain independent all the way through into the 21st century.

Get real.

[meanoharm]

DaveNSoKona I appreciate your input.

Do you (readers) feel that the negative feelings towards mainlanders, caucasions and other tourists is because of the over crowdings of the islands, or because of the past history of how caucasions forcefully took over the Hawaiian monarchy?

Do you feel that the Hawaiian monarchy would have prospered if it were left alone?

[Miulang]

That's a BIG if. What a fairytale. Hawaii somehow, miraculously, avoiding the fate of all indigenous cultures throughout the expansion of the western powers from the 17th-19th century and the Japanese in the 20th century.

The diseases suffered by indigenous cultures was an evolutionary readjustment to correct a condition brought on by isolation, not a curse inflicted by the white man. White civilizations suffered the same fate in the Middle Ages with diseases.

The real crime was the cultural genocide perpetrated by well meaning Christians (insert missionaries). Although even they did some good for Hawaiians left in the lurch by the abolition of the kapu system.

I'm not happy it happened but I think it was unavoidable. To suggest that any Hawaiian Monarch could have avoided annexation is a little harsh on the Ali'i that had to contend with it in those days. It is a wonder no more bloodshed took place than it did.

Unfortunately, if the US hadn't annexed it, Hawaii was too strategically located to remain independent all the way through into the 21st century.

Get real.
If the kanaka maoli hadn't been so trusting, they might have held on to their sovereignty for a longer period of time than they did. Yes, it would have been inevitable, and we might be speaking Japanese or Russian instead of English, Dave, but you see the same kinds of things happening even today in Brazil, where the indigenous people, who were isolated for thousands of years, are now being forced to come into contact with white people because of development in the jungle. Sociologists believe that the influence of western civilizations has hurt more than helped indigenous people. Once the genie is out of the bottle, s/he can't be stuffed back in.

As such, I doubt the Akaka Bill is going to do diddly for the kanaka maoli because not all of them are united as one voice. Nothing good will happen for the kanaka maoli until and unless they all embrace the same goals and work towards them together. The Native American tribes have started learning this. So now they "use" the white man's systems to their advantage, which is OK by me. If building casinos or selling mineral or water rights is the only way they can ensure the economic viability of their nations, then I say that's great. That's better than having them live on welfare.

Miulang

P.S. I don't think syphillis is something I would want to let loose in a homogeneous population just to "make the gene pool stronger". In a modern context, why does the Ag Dept have quarantine rules? To keep foreign invaders from decimating the population of endemic, unique to the islands plants and animals. Every day, at least a few of the unique species of flora and fauna in the 'aina are one step closer to extinction because of people and the introduction of alien species.

[pinakboy]

:(
Can't we jus all get along??!!

how about da haoles make da kine haole southern slow smoked bbq (not kalbi bbq) kaukau fo us and we make da kine luau fo dem local style maybe den everybody grind, drink and be happy!! we teachem how fo eat rice and mac salad and lay off da potatoes etc. :D
hehehe :rolleyes:

peace be with you.
:)

[cezanne]

Can you explain to me, if a none local is in Hawaii, is interested in learning the culture, and is respectful, would this be taken into consideration by locals?
Due to me not living in the environment I have a hard time understanding.

Sure, I would think so... it's a start anyway. I believe that people in Hawaii are generally nice and tolerant of eachother. Yeah you'll run into people who are still living in the past but it's not so much an "us vs. haoles" thing as you might believe.

[Glen Miyashiro]

Sure, I would think so... it's a start anyway. I believe that people in Hawaii are generally nice and tolerant of eachother. Yeah you'll run into people who are still living in the past but it's not so much an "us vs. haoles" thing as you might believe.That's cuz there's so many haoles around now. (Only half joking.) And cuz, as lots of people point out, it's hard to be racially prejudiced against an ethnic group when your cousins, or your in-laws, or your spouse!, is one of "them".

[DaveNSoKona]

To keep foreign invaders from decimating the population of endemic, unique to the islands plants and animals. Every day, at least a few of the unique species of flora and fauna in the 'aina are one step closer to extinction because of people and the introduction of alien species.

I never advocated that diseases were a good thing, simply unavoidable given the circumstances of the times...i.e ignorance on all sides.

Why aren't there quarantine stations on the mainland to check for flora and fauna in bags coming to Hawaii instead of a cheesy questionnaire on the airplane? I think Hawaii's big brother, California is why bags are checked here in Hawaii going to the mainland. California is why our wonderful Kona Sharwill avocadoes can't be exported to the mainland.

[Glen Miyashiro]

Why aren't there quarantine stations on the mainland to check for flora and fauna in bags coming to Hawaii instead of a cheesy questionnaire on the airplane? I think Hawaii's big brother, California is why bags are checked here in Hawaii going to the mainland. California is why our wonderful Kona Sharwill avocadoes can't be exported to the mainland.Bingo. The feds care more about protecting California's agricultural industry from fruit flies and other farm pests from Hawai'i than they do about protecting Hawai'i ecosystems from invasive species.

[DaveNSoKona]

Can you explain to me, if a none local is in Hawaii, is interested in learning the culture, and is respectful, would this be taken into consideration by locals?
Due to me not living in the environment I have a hard time understanding.

I have lived on the Big Island for four years. I have had no problems here and have only been called a haole once by a kid of Hawaiian ancestry and it wasn't out of meanness.

When we were looking to buy our farm white realtors warned us away from going down to Miloli’i. I regularly go to Miloli’i which is the oldest continuously inhabited fishing village in the islands and never had anything but a dog bark at me as far as hostility. I had a long conversation with a kapuna down there who showed me nothing but aloha. If you smile and are friendly you will most likely not have a problem here. If you are hostile, confrontational or dwell on how much a visitor/foreigner you are, you may have some problems.

I didn't go to junior high school here, but I had problems moving from California to Kansas with culture shock going into that difficult stage of life. Most of the stories I have heard revolve around whites in Hawaiian junior high schools. My guess it’s more testosterone than cultural bias.

[Konaguy]

Most of the stories I have heard revolve around whites in Hawaiian junior high schools. My guess it’s more testosterone than cultural bias.

I was born and raised here and I tell you going to elementry, intermediate
and high school here was like the 10th level of hell.I am haole and very
tall which didn't make things any easier.

[DaveNSoKona]

...so what's your point?

[Konaguy]

...so what's your point?

My point is it was very difficult going to school here because I'm haole.
It still bothers me to this day..and I've been out of High School for 11 years.

[DaveNSoKona]

I have met many, many whites that have lived here as far back as the '70s that have had no problems. Sooo... I guess the message is, don't move here with kids in school?

[Konaguy]

I know other people probably didn't have problems, but I sure did-and I was
born here in Kona. I would highly recommend if you move here don't have
your kids in public school--it is the pits.

[SaucerBoy]

I moved to the Big Island from the mainland about seven months ago. My experience so far has been a little like staying at a friend's house with their family. Everyone is friendly enough but I never really stop feeling like a guest.

I think a big part of the reason I feel like an outsider (again, not poorly treated, just not belonging) is because living here, to me, feels more like living in a different country than a different state.

The extent to which I feel like a guest varies by location on the Big Island as well. My girlfriend and I have lived in a few different towns since moving here. As she put it, "In Kona I feel like a local [in the sense of someone who lives and makes their life here] but in Hilo I feel like a long term tourist."

I've never had any problems with the way I've been treated here. I sometimes get the stink eye when surfing but I assume (correctly or not?) that that has less to do with being a haole than it does being yet one more person to compete with for waves.

As with everywhere else I've been a healthy combination of respect, smiles, and friendliness goes a long ways towards overcoming unfamiliarity. It's not perfect but it tends to work out a lot better than having a chip on your shoulder.

Off topic: The store/restaurant employees here are consistently the most friendly I've encountered anywhere is the US. Only Ireland, of the places I've travelled, matches it. It's uncanny.

It took a few months to get used to. I kept waiting for the guy at Taco Bell to gruffly throw a falling apart pile of stuff I didn't order at me like I'm used to but that never happens here. Small things like that make my day. :)

[Miulang]

I know other people probably didn't have problems, but I sure did-and I was
born here in Kona. I would highly recommend if you move here don't have
your kids in public school--it is the pits.
Hey Aaron, did you try to hang with the local kids? Not all of them could have treated you badly. Did you speak pidgin? I would think being born in Hawai'i, you probably had a permanent "tan" (unless you're a very fair skinned Northern European who avoids the sun like Dracula :p ), and if you spoke pidgin (da real dakine), some of those local non-haole kids must have treated you OK.

Miulang

[Glen Miyashiro]

"In Kona I feel like a local [in the sense of someone who lives and makes their life here] but in Hilo I feel like a long term tourist."I can't speak for people on the Big Island, but as a Honolulu professional, I have to say that if you feel like local people see you as a long term tourist, it's because... they do. You've been in Hawai'i less than a year; chances are that you're not going to stay. I have lost count of the number of haole professional colleagues of mine who have arrived in the islands, fresh and starry-eyed, and turned tail and left within a couple of years. No offense, but you won't be accepted as a resident until you've paid a few more dues.

[craigwatanabe]

Aaron's right there is a lot of Localism going on in Hawaii and as a local I feel a bit embarrassed because of it. It's not Aaron's fault that the white man screwed the Kanaka Maoli. If there's a generation that wants to help right any wrongs committed against the kingdom of Hawaii, it's the generation that Aaron belongs in that will help make it happen.

If we need to better our islands for the sake of our keiki then it's up to us to make it a better place for all of us, not just the local folks. If we constantly live in a world of hate then hate will become us and we become our own enemy.

Yes there is a lot of bitterness among locals and how they feel about haoles (whether born here or not) but getting pissed off about it only generates internal anger. Remember we can control what goes into our minds which ultimately controls what our bodies will do.

There are ways to keep the peace amongst us all, but it takes open dialog and an appreciation for each other before any substantive discussion can occur. Other than that we will continue to fight each other with blinders on not seeing the sucker punch from the south side.

Pretty soon the terrorism that we fear will come from our own indifference to each other and our societies will implode from within and everybody loses.

[Konaguy]

Hey Aaron, did you try to hang with the local kids? Not all of them could have treated you badly. Did you speak pidgin? I would think being born in Hawai'i, you probably had a permanent "tan" (unless you're a very fair skinned Northern European who avoids the sun like Dracula :p ), and if you spoke pidgin (da real dakine), some of those local non-haole kids must have treated you OK.

Miulang


I cannot tan, I burn even when I stick my arm out the window driving to Hilo :).
Its because I'm 75% Scandinavian [Dad is full Norwegian, mom is 50% Finish]
Some locals didn't treat me badly, but most did while I was in public school.

[Konaguy]

If we need to better our islands for the sake of our keiki then it's up to us to make it a better place for all of us, not just the local folks. If we constantly live in a world of hate then hate will become us and we become our own enemy.


Craig, you hit the nail on the head succintly. I could've not expressed it better.
You won't believe how many instances I have heard Hawaiians express their
anger over what happened to their race by the Caucasians.It is very complicated issue with no easy answers in my opinion.

[DaveNSoKona]

...but in Hilo I feel like a long term tourist.

I was forced to live in Michigan for three years and they (Norwegian Bachelor Farmers (?)) made me feel that way. If you don't eat lutefisk and use their secret handshake.... well you know, you’re an outsider.

I think some people expect a version of one of those Hawaiian Elvis movies when they move here. What no kiss and lei as I get off the plane?


I've never had any problems with the way I've been treated here. I sometimes get the stink eye when surfing but I assume (correctly or not?) that that has less to do with being a haole than it does being yet one more person to compete with for waves.


I have heard stories of surfers in California coming to blows over a wave.

[Menehune Man]

This thread has really got me wondering what sort of problems face all of our kids in school in Hawai'i now. What types of tensions are they facing? Is it nowadays more economic differences rather than racial as it used to be? Are they coming together better in any respects? My kids are grown now.

[Glen Miyashiro]

Dave, maybe Aaron's dad could teach you that secret handshake.

[kimo55]

>I think some people expect a version of one of those Hawaiian Elvis movies when they move here. What no kiss and lei as I get off the plane?

ah the good ol' days, time was when hula troupes would be there on the tarmac welcoming planesloads, but this fell by the wayside for many reasons;
no touch da tarmac, too many planes/people to keep up with...


>I have heard stories of surfers in California coming to blows over a wave.

dass wheah they grow da "aggro bro"!

[Glen Miyashiro]

This thread has really got me wondering what sort of problems face all of our kids in school in Hawai'i now. What types of tensions are they facing? Is it nowadays more economic differences rather than racial as it used to be? Are they coming together better in any respects? My kids are grown now.Oh yes, these days it's all about the money. Look at the kids at Punahou and 'Iolani. Their common bond isn't that they're all haole, or all Oriental. It's that they're (most of them) well-off.

[DaveNSoKona]

Dave, maybe Aaron's dad could teach you that secret handshake.

LOL - Next to Kansas, Michigan is the last place you'll find me.

[DaveNSoKona]

>...no touch da tarmac We still have one in Kona...bro. Those lovely lei carrying wahinis jus can't get through security.

[kimo55]

We still have one in Kona...bro. Those lovely lei carrying wahinis jus can't get through security.


ah, yes. the old style kona airport. That place is too cool. love it there.
and we live here so we be brah, not bro.

See them using that alot in that new sk8 flik
'lords of dogtown'
"this is our time, broze!"
wow.

[DaveNSoKona]

Sorry, pidgin is still a stretch for me.

[newroots]

Genocide By Substitution :d

[cezanne]

Sorry, pidgin is still a stretch for me.
Good for you... for me there's nothing worse than someone "trying" to talk pidgin, or feeling that they have to talk pidgin to fit in.

[DaveNSoKona]

Good for you... for me there's nothing worse than someone "trying" to talk pidgin, or feeling that they have to talk pidgin to fit in.

I'm still grappling with the move from "keen" to "cool" ...not really, but almost.

[Glen Miyashiro]

Genocide By Substitution :dThis from the Chamorro kid who wants to be Hawaiian? :p

[newroots]

:) on guam were kinda going through the same thing... less than 40% of the poPulAtion is chamoru. most of them are poor. it sucks being the minority in your own homeland , and people telling you theres nothing you can do about it so just let it happen :mad:

[Miulang]

:) on guam were kinda going through the same thing... less than 40% of the poPulAtion is chamoru. most of them are poor. it sucks being the minority in your own homeland , and people telling you theres nothing you can do about it so just let it happen :mad:
So instead of trying to be Hawaiian (which you can never be unless you believe in reincarnation), be Chamoru, then. And be proud of it. Be one of those who speaks up for your people, not one who says nothing can be done.

Miulang

[meanoharm]

Sure, I would think so... it's a start anyway. I believe that people in Hawaii are generally nice and tolerant of eachother. Yeah you'll run into people who are still living in the past but it's not so much an "us vs. haoles" thing as you might believe.

thanks I appreciate your response.
I am a firm believer in respect.
I know that when Im treated with respect, I do the same back, and visa versa.
I woudlnt think that it would be any different in Hawaii.
Also I know that wherever you go, there is a "few bad apples."

[meanoharm]

>I think some people expect a version of one of those Hawaiian Elvis movies when they move here. What no kiss and lei as I get off the plane?

Well not really, I havent seen that movie, I just expecting a version of a tropical place where if I say thank you and smile, it will be returned.

ah the good ol' days, time was when hula troupes would be there on the tarmac welcoming planesloads, but this fell by the wayside for many reasons;
no touch da tarmac, too many planes/people to keep up with...


>I have heard stories of surfers in California coming to blows over a wave.

dass wheah they grow da "aggro bro"!
Aggressive people come in all shapes and sizes, the Wolfpak for example is a group of local "aggro bros"

[meanoharm]

I am interested in the Hawaiian culture, I was wondering if you could answer a few of my questions.
I enjoy the laid back, positive aspect a lot of the people have.

I was wondering what a traditional local would do to relax?

What kinda music?

Im sure surf, hang out at the beach, anything else?

I know that it is common to be ladi back and relaxed.
What about outlook on life?

thanks

[Palama Kid]

[QUOTE=meanoharm]
I was wondering what a traditional local would do to relax?

What kinda music?

Im sure surf, hang out at the beach, anything else?

I know that it is common to be ladi back and relaxed.
What about outlook on life?



Thank you, all of you, for giving me some enlightening reading. Keep it up.

I'm makule, but meanoharm's queries are still intriguing to me. After moving from Honolulu 31 years ago, ah wen lose my local-kine bearings, so you guys educating me.

When I go home as a visitor, it can't hurt to be knowledgeable about these diverse thoughts.

You survive in California by getting along, so ah no make waves . . . try not to, anyway.

Palama Kid

[kimo55]

I am interested in the Hawaiian culture. I was wondering what a traditional local would do to relax?
I know that it is common to be ladi back and relaxed.
What about outlook on life?


Boy, could we use da Ulu Mau village right about now:
"Oh, look, Madge, ratchair, ya see wut we were alookin fer; a traditional local, and he seems ta be doin some traditional relaxin', in the laid back way only islanders know how.. let's study it. take a picture of his outlook. Wait: Hey you! show us yer best outlooking relaxing pose!"

looks like ya want the cliffnotes version of the stereotypical one-scene-on-the screen, central-casting-came-through-and -that-oughta-fool-the-suckers, patented, trademarked, distinctive Hawaiian way of "relaxing outlook and being laid back" in two paragraphs or less.
But I hate ta break it to ya, (akshully, I relish the chore) ; this ain't sumpin that can be conceptualised and/or conveyed in a paragraph, much less in an online chat room basically constituted of keyboard strokes with one forth the communication conveyed with "emoticons".
Nope. ya gonna haveta live here a few decades to understand any of what you are asking. To any real degree.

unless you are happy with the predigested superficial prepackaged version tailor made for those kinda people that feel instant gratification takes too long and where da hell can I witness some o that aloha spirit the Tourist Authority touts so loudly and too often....
If so, yer welcome to it, and I feel for ya.

[newroots]

island style turns pop culture. before fat brownies were inferior people. it was all about friends and sex in the city. now everyone wants a tan.

[Miulang]

I am interested in the Hawaiian culture, I was wondering if you could answer a few of my questions.
I enjoy the laid back, positive aspect a lot of the people have.

I was wondering what a traditional local would do to relax?

What kinda music?

Im sure surf, hang out at the beach, anything else?

I know that it is common to be ladi back and relaxed.
What about outlook on life?

thanks
Unfortunately, most "traditional locals" don't have much time to relax. They're working 2 or 3 jobs just to stay on top of their bills and other living expenses. When they can find the time, they usually hang out at the beach with their families because that's still free. And not everybody surfs and nobody lives in grass shacks anymore. Some people do still use outhouses, though. Kids like the same music that mainland kids do; older people like Hawaiian music.



Miulang

[kimo55]

Kids like the same music that mainland kids do; older people like Hawaiian music.



Miulang


thankfully we don't have an appreciation for gangsta-rap as they do on the mainland and thankfully neither do we have the resultant packs of yout' tryin ta emulate the thug life like over yonder.
Here, it's more of a Jawaiian thing and hip hop (No, not bunny music) is big. Then we grow up.

[Glen Miyashiro]

I am interested in the Hawaiian culture, I was wondering if you could answer a few of my questions.
I enjoy the laid back, positive aspect a lot of the people have.
I was wondering what a traditional local would do to relax?
What kinda music?
Im sure surf, hang out at the beach, anything else?
I know that it is common to be ladi back and relaxed.
What about outlook on life?
thanksWhat's a "traditional local"? Is that different from a "modern local", or a "nontraditional local"? :rolleyes:

We hang out. We play. We meet friends. We eat.

[craigwatanabe]

That's a pretty good question. Coming from Honolulu to Hilo, traditional local took on a different perspective.

For a while I perceived Townie local as one who graduated from McKinley or any of the popular High Schools around Honolulu. For the guy he drove a Toyota pick up truck with an Ulua window sticker on the back window. As you can tell he fished. He worked either as an engineer for any of the public utilities or was in a union as a laboror.

He owned a home in Pearl City or Kapolei and was married to his high school sweetheart. His wife drove a Lexus or Toyota Camery and worked for the State or City as a clerk.

When they got married they had this big reception at the Hawaiian Regent or the Hilton Hawaiian's Coral Ballroom with entertainment from the guy who plays at Kinkaids at Ward Center.

Both attend UH sporting events diligently and send their kids to private school as well as AYSO soccer and Little League baseball.

Both have bank accounts at BoH cuz Dat's My Bank! And have an equity line of credit in which they eventually buy their big screen TV set to watch their son's sports on video shot with a Sony DV camcorder purchased at either Shirokiya or Costco.

As a family they enjoy going to Magic Island on Saturdays then Ala Moana Food Court for lunch. They end up at Zippy's every friday night. He orders the Broasted Chicken plate while she orders the large One Ton Min and shares it with their newborn. Junior eats his keiki grilled cheese sandwich while trying to get out of the maze on his keiki place mat with the crayon that's been cracked in half. She listens to KSSK while he listens to Island Rhythms 98.5.

Now the country Local guy grad from Leileihua or Kahuku or sometimes even Farrington or Waipahu H/S. He works in construction and makes good money when the industry is hot, otherwise he goes fishing a lot in his older Toyota 4-runner with the camper shell lowered with rims.

His wife is Hawaiian Portuguese Filipino and works as a sales associate at Macy's just for the make up discounts. She drives the family's Mazda 6 or the Honda Accord to work at Pearl Ridge Shopping center.

When they got married they had this big reception at Tutu's house in Waianae with the big back yard with an inflatable bouncer for da kids and catering thru Marianns Catering cuz Tutu works for dem part time and for entertainment da braddahs jam on their guitars singing off tune Kapena songs.

They either rent in town or live with his or her parents in an extension he built with his construction buddies one weekend.

They have some kick ass home entertainment center and furnishings thru Rent-A-Center crammed in their extension and he challenges his oldest boy to the latest NFL video game on their X-box they bought from Kunia Walmart.

He also fishes but mostly for the drinking (who doesn't) on his Filipino friend's 29' boat and once in a while he goes golfing with his townie local co-worker and kicks his ass on the greens with his Ping's at Ala Wai or Pali.

Both listen to Island Rhythms 98.5 but she likes to listen to KSSK once in a while for the gossip around town.

On the weekends they take the family to Hawaiian Waters Adventure Park because it's someone's birthday. They too go to Zippy's (who doesn't) but he orders the zip pack while she orders the One Ton Min (wussup with da wahines liking the One Ton). The keiki eat the chili frank plate or the chili bowl.

After they go to 7-11 for some big gulps in their Dodge Caravan.

But when I got to the Big Island, all that went out the door and being local was completely redefined! Being local here mean't going to Uncle Billy's for some nightime fun. I still haven't learned what it takes to be East Hawaii local yet and even my new friends I made here tell me my pidgin is fake :eek:

What? But then again I tell them their pidgin is all F@#Ked up cuz I no can figa out what dea saying! Over here they use the word "choke" choke times. On Oahu it's not as prevailant.

To me that's local. And of course being local means you can understand what Larry Price is saying the first time around. :D Who? Well if you don't know who Larry Price is, then you ain't local.

[kimo55]

excellent.
da only depressing thing is:
"Rent-A-Center"

[meanoharm]

looks like ya want the cliffnotes version of the stereotypical one-scene-on-the screen, central-casting-came-through-and -that-oughta-fool-the-suckers, patented, trademarked, distinctive Hawaiian way of "relaxing outlook and being laid back" in two paragraphs or less.
But I hate ta break it to ya, (akshully, I relish the chore) ; this ain't sumpin that can be conceptualised and/or conveyed in a paragraph, much less in an online chat room basically constituted of keyboard strokes with one forth the communication conveyed with "emoticons".
Nope. ya gonna haveta live here a few decades to understand any of what you are asking. To any real degree.

kimo, i was tryin to be friendly and was just intersted in your culture, I work with many samoans who are very friendly and they appreciate my interset in their culture, and they often enlighten me on their outlooks and way of life.
I was asking the local Hawaiians, the same way that I ask the Somaons, who were previous locals of samoa about their culture, they are very informative and nice, what da deal which ya?

[meanoharm]

What's a "traditional local"? Is that different from a "modern local", or a "nontraditional local"? :rolleyes:

We hang out. We play. We meet friends. We eat.

Well I seem to have miss worded that, I apologize.
I just meant any native/local from Hawaii, Im just interested in the culture.
I am very positive and laid back and some times wonder why da people around me are so different, I kinda wondered what you thought, thats it thanks

[meanoharm]

Unfortunately, most "traditional locals" don't have much time to relax. They're working 2 or 3 jobs just to stay on top of their bills and other living expenses. When they can find the time, they usually hang out at the beach with their families because that's still free. And not everybody surfs and nobody lives in grass shacks anymore. Some people do still use outhouses, though. Kids like the same music that mainland kids do; older people like Hawaiian music.



Miulang
I appreciate your response.
I have heard that living in Hawaii is very exspensive and it is very hard to find a job. I wish the best for all of ya.

[meanoharm]

thankfully we don't have an appreciation for gangsta-rap as they do on the mainland and thankfully neither do we have the resultant packs of yout' tryin ta emulate the thug life like over yonder.
Here, it's more of a Jawaiian thing and hip hop (No, not bunny music) is big. Then we grow up.

kimo,
I grew up in a urban area on the mainalnd, but I dont emulate the "thug" life, I would rather listen to bob marley, relaxation and positive outlook is the best for me.

[meanoharm]

To me that's local. And of course being local means you can understand what Larry Price is saying the first time around. :D Who? Well if you don't know who Larry Price is, then you ain't local.

I am very appreciative of your discriptive response, thank you very much.:]

[cezanne]

Where's meanoharm from? If I may ask.

[Glen Miyashiro]

Where's meanoharm from? If I may ask.Yes; it would help if you gave us a little background on where you're coming from, meanoharm.

[meanoharm]

Yes; it would help if you gave us a little background on where you're coming from, meanoharm.

Im not sure what your asking when you say background, Im a haole who grew up in St. Louis, Missouri, I originally started this thread to learn more about the Hawaiian culture.
I have been interested in Polynesian cultures for a little while now, I think that their culture and history are interesting. I chose Hawaii, because I am from the US and because of the diverse cultures "melting pot" that make up its population.

[kimohalliway]

The crux of the whole haole vs hawaiian thing is intelligence. The hawaiians that dont want the Haole in hawaii are the ignorant ones, that you dont want to associate with anyway. They perceive anyone who speaks with some intelligence as someone showing off. Frustration sets in, because the local feels inferior and either gives up or threatens them. Intimidation is the only weapon dumb people have. As for the educated ones (trask sisters) there is no excuse. Both of them should remember that their last name is that of ONE HAOLE.

[Miulang]

The crux of the whole haole vs hawaiian thing is intelligence. The hawaiians that dont want the Haole in hawaii are the ignorant ones, that you dont want to associate with anyway. They perceive anyone who speaks with some intelligence as someone showing off. Frustration sets in, because the local feels inferior and either gives up or threatens them. Intimidation is the only weapon dumb people have. As for the educated ones (trask sisters) there is no excuse. Both of them should remember that their last name is that of ONE HAOLE.
The kanaka maoli have their own reasons for feeling the way they do (especially about the government) and it's not fair for any NON kanaka maoli to say that the reason they feel the way they do is out of ignorance. The kanaka maoli are not dumb. If they were, how could they have survived the long canoe trip across the Pacific Ocean from Kahiki, with no modern navigation to guide them? Could the resentment of caucasians (especially the ones not born and bred in the islands) be because of the lack of respect some of them have toward the locals?

Miulang

[Glen Miyashiro]

The crux of the whole haole vs hawaiian thing is intelligence. The hawaiians that dont want the Haole in hawaii are the ignorant ones, that you dont want to associate with anyway. They perceive anyone who speaks with some intelligence as someone showing off. Frustration sets in, because the local feels inferior and either gives up or threatens them. Intimidation is the only weapon dumb people have. As for the educated ones (trask sisters) there is no excuse. Both of them should remember that their last name is that of ONE HAOLE.Umm... are you saying that "if a Hawaiian doesn't want haole in Hawai'i, then they're ignorant"? Then you're also saying, contrapositively, that "if a Hawaiian is not ignorant, then they do want haole in Hawai'i". I dunno about that.

Ignorant does not mean you're dumb. Educated doesn't mean you aren't.

[meanoharm]

It seems that the outlook of haole's is different for different individuals.

but from the majority of responses I have:
basically im getting that haole's are not wanted in Hawaii?
and the outlook is that the Hawaiian's life would be better without Haole's?

is this correct?

[Miulang]

It seems that the outlook of haole's is different for different individuals.

but from the majority of responses I have:
basically im getting that haole's are not wanted in Hawaii?
and the outlook is that the Hawaiian's life would be better without Haole's?

is this correct?
No, I think it's more like: "Come and visit us as much as you want, spend all your money and then go back home." But then again, this is the same sentiment you would hear from citizens of any overcrowded city or places where rapid growth is anathema.

Miulang

[Glen Miyashiro]

It seems that the outlook of haole's is different for different individuals.

but from the majority of responses I have:
basically im getting that haole's are not wanted in Hawaii?
and the outlook is that the Hawaiian's life would be better without Haole's?

is this correct?Sigh. You're not getting it.

Look, if you're from Missouri, then try go find a Shawnee or a Cherokee person and ask him the same kind of questions: Are white people wanted in America? Would the Indians' lives be better without white people? You'll get the same spectrum of answers, from those who wish they could turn the clock back and keep the land for the natives, to those who point out that it was probably inevitable, to those whose lives are so deeply entwined with white people that there is no way of saying yes or no.

[meanoharm]

Look????

well if it was your intention to turn me away from asking questions and learning about your culture, you have succeeded.

[Glen Miyashiro]

Look????

well if it was your intention to turn me away from asking questions and learning about your culture, you have succeeded.<shrug> OK. Have a nice day anyway.

[cezanne]

Dang I can't get the "Lets Go Fishing" theme song out of my head now. ;)

[kimo55]

<shrug> OK. Have a nice day anyway.



Glen, yer such a sarcastic, sonoffa... chasing people away like that...
you GO, boy!

[craigwatanabe]

Look????

well if it was your intention to turn me away from asking questions and learning about your culture, you have succeeded.

You have to understand there Hawaii is a place with mixed blessings. The Kanaka Maoli (Native Hawaiians) really got the shaft by two groups, the white man and their own King Kamehameha the Great. But it's easier to blame the white man for their ills and not recognize that Kamehameha himself honored (then feasted on) the great white man himself Capt. Cook.

Their culture was devestated by the missionaries, then taken over by the country that claims it as their 50th state. As in the indians, the Kanaka Maoli were taken advantaged of by the same group.

One thing I didn't mention in my description of a local is their impressions of the Haole because there isn't any one way to describe them. A lot of haole's are sensitive to the local ways we have here and are respectful of it. However there are a few that will intimidate you because of what happened a long time ago.

But we all have to understand that it wasn't the haole's alive today that are to blame for the illegal overthrow of the Hawaiian Monarchy much as it wasn't my fault for bombing Pearl Harbor!

We all need to work together to come to some understanding and respect for what happened to the isles generations ago and go from there. Stewing over the past won't help, learning and amending will and it starts with our attitudes on who we are and how we accept the rest of the world.

So Meannoharm from Missouri, you're more than welcome to come see and even live in our state of Hawaii because as the 50th state it's your right. The latent message in these threads however is that unlike many of the other states in the union, this one has a sensitive past with locals that were victims of the nation they are currently citizens of...some against their will.

The state of Hawaii has a lot to offer Malahini's (newcomers) and at the same time culture of Hawaii can teach you what it means to live Aloha.

Some of us are bitter, but from their bitterness you can try to understand why. Some of us are proud of our island heritage and want to share it with the rest of the world.

Bitter is one thing as it destroys from within and that's anyone's worst enemy.

Hawaii is a beautiful place and one which should be appreciated by all who desire to visit our isles.

E Komo Mai...Welcome, come in :)

[Pedro]

You have to understand there Hawaii is a place with mixed blessings. The Kanaka Maoli (Native Hawaiians) really got the shaft by two groups, the white man and their own King Kamehameha the Great. But it's easier to blame the white man for their ills and not recognize that Kamehameha himself honored (then feasted on) the great white man himself Capt. Cook.

Their culture was devestated by the missionaries, then taken over by the country that claims it as their 50th state. As in the indians, the Kanaka Maoli were taken advantaged of by the same group.

One thing I didn't mention in my description of a local is their impressions of the Haole because there isn't any one way to describe them. A lot of haole's are sensitive to the local ways we have here and are respectful of it. However there are a few that will intimidate you because of what happened a long time ago.

But we all have to understand that it wasn't the haole's alive today that are to blame for the illegal overthrow of the Hawaiian Monarchy much as it wasn't my fault for bombing Pearl Harbor!

We all need to work together to come to some understanding and respect for what happened to the isles generations ago and go from there. Stewing over the past won't help, learning and amending will and it starts with our attitudes on who we are and how we accept the rest of the world.

So Meannoharm from Missouri, you're more than welcome to come see and even live in our state of Hawaii because as the 50th state it's your right. The latent message in these threads however is that unlike many of the other states in the union, this one has a sensitive past with locals that were victims of the nation they are currently citizens of...some against their will.

The state of Hawaii has a lot to offer Malahini's (newcomers) and at the same time culture of Hawaii can teach you what it means to live Aloha.

Some of us are bitter, but from their bitterness you can try to understand why. Some of us are proud of our island heritage and want to share it with the rest of the world.

Bitter is one thing as it destroys from within and that's anyone's worst enemy.

Hawaii is a beautiful place and one which should be appreciated by all who desire to visit our isles.

E Komo Mai...Welcome, come in :)

Well spoken there Craig, couldn't have put it better myself.

[newroots]

thats a good point but , it was the giving nature that made people take advantage of your kindness. or at least thats what happened here. how much longer can you give when your land , people , and resources are diminishing at a fast pace. your right when you say the 'haoles today' are not the ones from the past. but they are the ones not helping the situation at hand , if anything , their probably making it worse. as a matter fact , they are the issue. honestly , i dont really know LoL... i just assume from what happening He4e. here , people have been surpressed for like 1600. tHeY insist we need em. but maaaaaaaaaaan ....... its our right as a people [on guahan] ... to be independent and soveriegn. modern day colonialism , modern day invasion , this sucks.

[Glen Miyashiro]

Glen, yer such a sarcastic, sonoffa... chasing people away like that...
you GO, boy!But Kimo, you're still here. :rolleyes:

[kimohalliway]

how much longer can you give when your land , people , and resources are diminishing at a fast pace. .

And whose fault is that?!!? It's been over one hundred years since the Queen and the overthrow, and we havent educated ourselves yet?!!? It's time to call it what it is, hawaiians have to stop being lazy and stop with the easy excuses. I am 50% hawaiian and I am sick of my people hiding behind the "white man excuse" This is America and everyone is given an equal chance at making it. To blame the white man is just a part of the uneducated, loser, lazy, depend on welfare handouts frame of mind. God Bless AMERICA

[kimo55]

But Kimo, you're still here.



uuuhhh... yeeaaaa... soooo?

[craigwatanabe]

ooooohhh silence fills the air....

Okay Glen maybe a bit of clarification there cuz you lost me too.

[helen]

It seems that the outlook of haole's is different for different individuals.

You got this statement right.

but from the majority of responses I have:
basically im getting that haole's are not wanted in Hawaii?
and the outlook is that the Hawaiian's life would be better without Haole's?

is this correct?

Speaking for myself anyone who comes to Hawaii thinking they will get the keys to the city or the red carpet treatment is in for a major disappointment, but then again we don't get out our pitchforks and torches, form lynch mobs and go storming the nearest hotel to entice the visitors to leave the state.

If you want to visit Hawaii, take in the sights, take some photos, try out the food I don't have a problem with this.

[style]

[Hawaii is a beautiful paradise which is heavily dependent on tourism. many locals due to the high cost of living are moving abroad to increase the quality of life. I feel that people are moving fo bettah da quality of lives and if Hawaii, Las Vegas, or Detroit is where one feels they need to be to make that possible, then godspeed. We are "United States" The pursuit of life, liberty, and happiness. :D

[jdub]

fer chrissakes, people...i had no idea, after living here for 33 of my 34 years, that the "aloha spirit" is debatable...you're either a provincial bigot or someone, local or not, that has a grasp of what the aloha spirit is...i may be technically malahini, but i can guarantee that i know more about Hawai'i and its people than most of the provincially-minded people that grew up here...it's far too late to decry the "melting pot" identity that has been marketed here for decades...the affinity people elsewhere feel for Hawai'i helped me forge a musical career beyond these shores, and at every gig i play nowadays, someone from somewhere else makes it a point to corner me and tell me how much they love it here...aloha is alive and well, regardless of whom you ask "how local people feel"...

[Pedro]

fer chrissakes, people...i had no idea, after living here for 33 of my 34 years, that the "aloha spirit" is debatable...you're either a provincial bigot or someone, local or not, that has a grasp of what the aloha spirit is...i may be technically malahini, but i can guarantee that i know more about Hawai'i and its people than most of the provincially-minded people that grew up here...it's far too late to decry the "melting pot" identity that has been marketed here for decades...the affinity people elsewhere feel for Hawai'i helped me forge a musical career beyond these shores, and at every gig i play nowadays, someone from somewhere else makes it a point to corner me and tell me how much they love it here...aloha is alive and well, regardless of whom you ask "how local people feel"...

I don't think that the "Aloha Spirit" should be debated over. It's what makes this Island Great, I believe. And I think it's why so many people love coming back here. Now just because the islands were taken illegally doesn't mean we have to change our ways of living, and thinking to conform to a different way of thinking "You took my land so I am going shun everyone not native to this island Blah, Blah, Blah." No such way... My ancestors would be rolling in their graves. We have moved far beyond that line of thinking, I believe. Yes I would like to perpetuate the culture and influence the language to be spread but not hated. I mean come on lot's of countries have changed because of western influence no doubt about that but there has to be one shred of dignity left to remind people of who they are and for Hawaii it's the "Aloha Spirit."

[meanoharm]

I just wanta say that I am very happy to see positive responses.
thank you, and god bless :)

[newroots]

god bless america and all its genocidal consensus

[MadAzza]

god bless america and all its genocidal consensus

I can see by your avatar what a pacifist you are.

[meanoharm]

god bless america and all its genocidal consensus

well if not godbless, then howabout whatever makes you happy

[kimo55]

awrite.
"How do locals feel about visitors or people moving from the mainland?"

jezz fine. as long as it ain't HERE dey moving to.


whew.
held dat one in for too long.

[Glen Miyashiro]

whew.
held dat one in for too long.You do dat, you gon get constamapated. When you feel jalike dey gon com out, jus let em out! :D

[kimo55]

You do dat, you gon get constamapated. When you feel jalike dey gon com out, jus let em out! :D
Wot. you like see hawaii kai real estate prices plummet?
besides...


if I do, den da kine get all obah.
den gotta wash off. see? I get shat upon if i let go lidat!

http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showthread.php?t=6043&highlight=nitpicking

[Palolo Joe]

I get shat upon if i let go lidat!As you should be...

[kimo55]

oh, palolo, ya say da sweetest things!
and hey; ya kept stealing the covers last night!

[admin]

This thread's obviously run its course. Similar questions will be along eventually.