Hawaii Crime Watch

[HCW Team]

Aloha!

WE just launched a new website / FREE public service called Hawaii Crime Watch. And are looking to get Hawaii's Online Community to assist Hawaii's Authorities by reporting (posting) any type of suspicous activity, criminal acts and things of that nature.

Let's help keep Hawaii safe for our future!

Mahalos ~
HCW Team
www.hawaiicrimewatch.com

[kimo55]

oooh boy. reverse type. cardinal sin. that's one crime I would report.
hey; what's yer logo; a fighter getting hit with a boxing glove!?
and why?

[scrivener]

I think I'm going to reserve judgment for now. I'm an anarchist at heart and therefore dislike laws in general and favor societal pressure for regulating the behavior of its citizens, and I don't know how this fits in with that.

I did a whois search and see that the domain is registered to a Marc in Aiea. A Google of his name turned up some web-design stuff and some mixed-martial-arts stuff, so that might explain the graphics.

One judgment I won't reserve is on the site admin's awful spelling and grammar. I'm very forgiving in this area, but it's clear that a lot of thought, time, and energy were put into making the site LOOK nice, but the terrible linguistic mechanics make the whole operation look like a high school project. HCW, if you're interested, I'd be glad to edit some of your administrative posts, but you'll have to send the text to me in email. Seriously, the grammar and spelling are atrocious.

The very first sentence on the page:
"Help keep Hawaii safe - report arsonists, vandalism, and any type of criminal activity to Hawaii's Finest's!!"

[LikaNui]

assist Hawaii's Authorities by reporting (posting) any type of suspicous activity, criminal acts and things of that nature.
Hoooo, boy... this raises all kinds of red flags for me! My first impression is that it's some kind of vigilante operation, as the website in question apparently has zero affiliation with any legitimate and sanctioned organization, such as HPD, HFD, etc.
As far as I can tell so far, it's just another forum where the type of people who engage in flame wars online or who have grudges against someone in real life can try to cause more trouble for their victims. It seems to be an opportunity to commit libel without fear of retribution.
You really should go into a helluva lot more detail in establishing any kind of credibility, both here and on the website. Plus, there's been nothing whatsoever in the local media.
Your website has a section apparently for people to file reports to the police and fire departments, so if this was truly a legitimate service the news media would've covered it. Why would anyone file reports on an independent non-official website instead of calling 9-1-1? I don't get it at all.

Mahalos ~
HCW Team
Who exactly is this "team"?
A quick search showed me the following:

Registrant:
Marc E********
**-**** Moanalua Rd.
Aiea, Hawaii 96701
United States

Registered through: GoDaddy.com
Domain Name: HAWAIICRIMEWATCH.COM
Created on: 12-Jul-05
Expires on: 12-Jul-06
Last Updated on: 12-Jul-05

I dunno. Color me extremely skeptical.
:confused:

[Glen Miyashiro]

In the last few months there have been several mentions in the news of the local chapter of the Guardian Angels. Wonder if this new site has anything to do with that?

[1stwahine]

I wish you well in your fight against crime. Please be careful. Leave the "real" fighting to the experts at HPD, DEA, FBI & The Dept. of Fire Arms and Tobacco. Sometimes, I get mad at corruption which is going on...but must keep silent for in due time it will come out! Remember, when one is caught there is another who will take it's place...it's always been that way, it will always be that way. We can fight crime and try to keep it minimal...reality wise, from the beggining of time, crime is amongst us.

Be brave, don't be stupid

Auntie Lynn of Chinatown

[kimo55]

the site tells us:

"... is a Public Service for Hawaii's community. Misuse of this service will not be tolerated, any abusive and degrading comments to any other member, person of importance, law enforcment agent or agencies will be removed from the forum and your account will be banned."


is "enforcment" when someone forcs you?


and what about degrading comments to person or persons of UNimportance?





OK... so; we are told this site is for:

"REPORT CRIME:
REPORT CRIME TO HAWAII'S POLICE:
Help Hawaii's finest fight crime!! Keep Hawaii safe for our families and friends and report the crime you see in your neighborhood.

REPORT TO FIRE DEPARTMENT:
Arsonist and brush fires has been a major problem this year. If you see something report it here and help the Hawaii Fire Department catch these criminals!

("If you see something report it here". Hey! I just saw a bird fly by! Oh, look; a tree!)

REPORT VANDALISM:
Vandalism has been on the rise these past days and the C&C has been there to clean up their dirty work. Help HPD find the coulprits behind those who ruin Hawaii with their so-called art.


.....JUST in the "past days"?
I would say I have seen this on the rise for a few years.
and what's a "coulprits"?
the name for those beHIND vandals!?
Huh?



ok! so, after all this, we are then told:

"...If you feel like you have vital information regarding any type of crime DO NOT POST IT HERE call 911 immediately!"
Jeez! Just negated all that you have said!



(and, uh.... how 'bout if i feel like a beer?)



awrite, I am convinced by now; It is a comedy site, created for our amusement. Gotta be!

[craigwatanabe]

You know maybe were being a bit alarmist here but when I was living in Waialae Iki IV ridge we had/have a neighborhood crime watch via email grouplist.

If a neighbor or the author of the online crimewatch spotted unusual activity in the neighborhood or if someone wanted to report a property crime they could report it and it would be emailed to everybody in the neighborhood.

This is a very valuable resource because when a crime was reported thru the network of emails, everybody became more aware.

I'm not sure how HCW is going to act or react to any criminal or suspect criminal postings but at least it's a start in the right direction.

Our problem is that we become aware of a problem only when the media reports. HCW seems to be a conduit for word of mouth awareness which can be much more effective.

Before we blast HCW we should see if it does in fact work. My hunch is that it will. If it will expose Ice labs in our neighborhoods or other illicit activity then I'm willing to give it a try.

[LikaNui]

Dang, Kimo, ya beat me by just a couiple of minutes again! LOL
I did exactly what you did (checked out all four messages on the site) and came up with the exact same questions (who quantifies what makes a "person of importance"?). High five to ya, Kimo.
Here's what I found there, plus my own comments in boldface type:

Subject: RULES AND REGULATIONS:

Specific addresses, phone numbers, license plate numbers, names, and any type of personal information are prohibited and will not be tolerated by the Administrators of this forum. Then what the heck is the point of it all?

_ ABSOLUTELY NO FALSE INFORMATION shall be allowed to be posted in this forum. Is someone monitoring it 24/7 and pre-approving every message? If not, people can post any vicious and malicious thing they want and it might stay up on the site for hours or even days. By the time it's removed, the damage has been done. Just saying something is not allowed won't stop anybody. Administrators will have the right to trace your IP and report it to Authorities if any FALSE INFORMATION and/or reports are being made out of SPITE, SLANDER or DEFAMATION OF CHARACTER.

_ This is a Public Service for Hawaii's community. Then why aren't any law enforcement agencies involved with it? What makes you think they'll even look at it??? Misuse of this service will not be tolerated, any abusive and degrading comments to any other member, person of importance, law enforcment agent or agencies will be removed from the forum and your account will be banned. Ho, da brown-nosing!!!

_ When registering, if you would like to remain anonymous please do not enter your personal information like address, phone numbers, etc., Eh, doesn't this encourage flamers and troublemakers? Hawaii Crime Watch will not be liable for the consequences that may occur regarding the information you enter while registering.

_ By clicking on the “I Agree” button you agreed to follow these rules while browsing and posting in the boards.

*DISCLAIMER*
Hawaii Crime Watch is a Public Service for the community of Hawaii and all it's Islands. However, Hawaii Crime Watch and it's Creators will not be liable for anything posted and reported in this forum. According to whose legal opinion? I sure hope they checked with some attorneys before setting this all up. This service is soley used to report crime (that's what 9-1-1 is for!) and help Hawaii's Law Enforcment Officers. Help them HOW???

Please remember that we are not "911" for any emergency situations you encounter DO NOT use this service!! Please call 911!! If you feel like you have vital information regarding any type of crime DO NOT POST IT HERE call 911 immediately! Then, um, why... oh, never mind. It's too obvious.

Then another message:


Subject: WHO?

WHO?

Hawaii411, Security Alarm Shop and 808 Sites brings yet another useful service for the public.
Aloha.

Well, now it sounds more like an advertising site and a pure commercial venture. But you say it's a public service. Um...

And another message:

Subject: WHAT?

Hawaii Crime Watch is an organization (who comprises this "organization"?)that provides an easy-to-use, secure (secure? It's open to anyone and everyone!) and powerful tool (powerful how?) for Law Enforcement, and Community Program Leaders to assure neighborhood protection ("Assure"? Be careful of the legal ramifications of making promises you can't keep. You could've said to try to assure, for instance.) and community involvement with quick communications (Isn't that what radios and cell phones are for? What's so "quick" about an internet message board?) through this FREE online forum.
By reporting Alerts and Messages, Notifications, and Events Law Enforcement can communicate quickly and easily by just browsing the forum. (Or, um, even more quickly and easily just by using their radios and cell phones!)
The project is funded by Sponsors and Advertisments - please visit our Sponsor / Advertisment area if you are interested in supporting this project.

As you can see, Marc has lots of 'splaining to do, Lucy!
:rolleyes:

[kimo55]

Subject: WHO?

WHO?

Hawaii411, Security Alarm Shop and 808 Sites brings yet another useful service for the public.


yea. that is the answer for their:
"Get an inside look at the people behind this project and what gave them the idea to create this public service website."
nope... doesn't do it for me. How 'bout you?
(looks like a pueo runs that department...)




The project is funded by Sponsors and Advertisments - please visit our Sponsor / Advertisment area if you are interested in supporting this project.



yea. "Advertisments" for the illiterate, apparently....

[craigwatanabe]

The project is funded by Sponsors and Advertisments - please visit our Sponsor / Advertisment area if you are interested in supporting this project.



There's nothing wrong with that statement. It's just asking people who like this site to solicit those sponsors that paid to help bring that website up financially, like a commercial that's all.

When I used to emcee fun fairs at Hokulani Elementary school I would openly ask those who benefitted from the fair to solicit those vendors that donated time and money for the fair, like Meadow Gold who provided some of the refreshments and door prizes.

Why are we being so negative about something that's trying to do some good? Okay it's not as professional as one would want and it's disclaimer is only trying to protect itself from liability claims.

As for monitoring, some message boards will have all postings go thru a verification process before the posting goes live. Hawaii Threads doesn't but that doesn't mean it will if flames and inuendo's begin to prevail over an innocent remark.

Regarding IP traces, I'm sure by agreeing to it's services, you agree to those stipulations as well.

And just because it's a public service that doesn't mean law inforcement needs to be involved. Look at KSSK's Posse. HPD has never endorsed it yet it does take a listen because it is a valuable tool in catching the thief.

There's a lot of public services that aren't connected with government agencies. Aloha United Way, Salvation Army, Goodwill are all prime examples of public services that aren't funded in any way by our government.

And HCW can make the claim that they aren't liable for postings simply with the disclaimer they put in front that you agree to before you can post. Same goes for the disclaimer for Hawaii Threads, same goes for the disclaimers that TV and Radio stations put prior to running infomercials. It's no different and it does clear them of certain liability.

For their disclaimer of not being 9-1-1 even every medical institution that has voice mail will tell you that if this is a medical emergency, hang up and dial 9-1-1 for obvious reasons.

I've worked in radio where we've run many infomercials and have had to author news reports that can put us in a position of high liability if not done correctly and these statements by HCW are simply standard liability disclaimers. It's usefulness is still apparent though as it's site does centralize thoughts and observations of those around us as to what's going on in our neighborhoods and that's better than nothing at all.

I say we give HCW a chance and prove their worthiness or lack there of.

[kimo55]

The project is funded by Sponsors and Advertisments - please visit our Sponsor / Advertisment area if you are interested in supporting this project.



There's nothing wrong with that statement.




Well, ya shure, having said that, if ya put up a web site, that said, definately ya otta spell more gooder then that.

[craigwatanabe]

Well if it boils down to that then I agree, but it's the thought that counts. :)

[kimo55]

Well if it boils down to that then I agree, but it's the thought that counts. :)

I dunno. It may be misdirected thought.... and most definitely (or rather; definately) it was alotta effort for... uh.... what?
reminds me of that duuuuummmmb mic gruff truck commercial with that inANE song and stew PEED rhyming.
ok; so a kid hurts his knee. another kid waves down a truck; that happens to be connected to this program that happens to be within 3 yards of the skinned knee.
The driver hops out, frantically pushes the face of his cell phone and we magically have appear, a couple low rent theme park mascots standing around in the hot sun with a couple of local hip-hop lookin kids, playing ukulele to the camera. What did we just learn?!
NUH thin. Except:
Some PSA funds are being grossly mis spent.

[LikaNui]

We are looking to get Hawaii's Online Community to assist Hawaii's Authorities by reporting (posting) any type of suspicous activity, criminal acts and things of that nature.
I re-quoted the above from the very first post in this thread as my answer to Craig Watanabe's most recent reply. I certainly understand all you said about supporting the sponsors, Craig, but that's all a very miniscule part of my questions.
I still fail to see, in any way, exactly what this HCW Team hopes to accomplish! Per their quote above, they're asking people to do... what? Rat on their neighbors for some perceived infraction? What possible advantage can there be in posting an internet message over simply dialing 9-1-1? Are we supposed to trust that the HCW Team will pass our message along to the authorities? If so, WHEN? And WHY do we need a middleman to do that for us? And again, why doesn't the website idetify who the heck the "team" is?
I've been involved with law enforcement agencies quite a bit, mainly in search-and-rescue operations. And from an enforcement standpoint, I don't see any advantage to this new site. On the contrary, I see where people might well be misled into thinking they're dealing with the authorities instead of with a private individual in Aiea who apparently has no connection to the authorities at all. Heck, I wonder if the authorities even know about this deal?!?!!
It all just seems to be misleading, and I just don't get the point of the whole thing.
We've all asked some pretty serious questions here. Now we need the HCW Team to respond. If they can successfully answer our questions, THEN we'll be inclined to support it.

[adrian]

Why would we report crime on a message board, when we can just call up the police/fire/medic?

[kimo55]

Why would we report crime on a message board, when we can just call up the police/fire/medic?



uh, yea. thanks. that IS the general point that has being made here.

[LikaNui]

I briefly wondered if my responses to HCW were too negative but I still think we've all asked some very logical and legitimate questions that must be answered before we can support HCW.
And I also realized another hazard of a message board that asks folks to report crimes and "similar things" -- there are criminals who watch for things like that in order to gain more info about potential targets and victims! If you post that someone had something of great value stolen, the criminal waits a month or two until they think the insurance company has replaced it, then they hit the victim again because they already know what's likely to be there. Ditto for obituaries that post the date and time of funerals, so criminals know that the family's home will surely be unoccupied at a given date and time.
So now, besides our prior questions about HCW, there's another point or two to ponder and await their reply.
Funny that the "HCW Team" haven't posted here again yet. Maybe the message was just a spam -- post one notice then not come back. Interesting.
On the other hand, if they're spamming it's obviously not working so far. Still just the same four messages on their board, and still just one single member -- the board administrator.
:rolleyes:

[HCW Team]

Hoooo, boy... this raises all kinds of red flags for me! My first impression is that it's some kind of vigilante operation, as the website in question apparently has zero affiliation with any legitimate and sanctioned organization, such as HPD, HFD, etc.
As far as I can tell so far, it's just another forum where the type of people who engage in flame wars online or who have grudges against someone in real life can try to cause more trouble for their victims. It seems to be an opportunity to commit libel without fear of retribution.
You really should go into a helluva lot more detail in establishing any kind of credibility, both here and on the website. Plus, there's been nothing whatsoever in the local media.
Your website has a section apparently for people to file reports to the police and fire departments, so if this was truly a legitimate service the news media would've covered it. Why would anyone file reports on an independent non-official website instead of calling 9-1-1? I don't get it at all.

.............

Anymore ideas? We would really appreciate it.

Please, we are in no way trying to harm anyone in providing this service. LikaNui you have some great ideas but forgive us for not answering every question (whoa boy lots of questions but VERY GOOD ONES!) we will be revising our Rules and Regs and Disclaimers because of your great questions!

We just launched this site this week and were hoping to get some users before going to the news with it, we were just hoping to get some support from other online communities. We will be approaching the authorities regarding this site.

Like I said, this is a new site and I am helping them 'design' it. I am working with hawaii411, KeikiID and 808sites with this project and do not want any trouble. We did do another site for the public called MFSUSA Messages for Soldiers and did get news recognition and were even seen on CNN so we do have experience with public service type of websites.

Your comments has helped out alot and we are willing to link and support any forum that suppoprts us. We want to work with each other not against each other.

**If you could so kindly remove the registrant information above. I have 3 little kids ages 2 to 5 and pray everyday for their safety. Having my name and address in this forum does not help secure things.**

Like our forum, these type of things would not happen, for one, we have a code that blocks out numbers, this way if someone tries to enter an address or phone number it is blocked and two: all messages has to be approved before being posted.

Thanks again.

[admin]

If you could so kindly remove the registrant information above. I have 3 little kids ages 2 to 5 and pray everyday for their safety. Having my name and address in this forum does not help secure things.As a courtesy, and against my personal preference, I have redacted the information. You should be aware, however, that your domain registration details are publicly available via a number of channels, including your own webhost. It would take anyone finding this thread exactly fifteen seconds to look it up themselves.

If your name and contact information was something you specifically didn't want linked with your project, I would have thought things through a little better before going live with the site. You can't put the genie back into the bottle, as they say.

[HCW Team]

As a courtesy, and against my personal preference, I have redacted the information. You should be aware, however, that your domain registration details are publicly available via a number of channels, including your own webhost. It would take anyone finding this thread exactly fifteen seconds to look it up themselves.

If your name and contact information was something you specifically didn't want linked with your project, I would have thought things through a little better before going live with the site. You can't put the genie back into the bottle, as they say.

Yep you're right. :o Thanks.

We are consulting with other similar organizations in the US regarding a project like this and will have answers for you soon. Mahalo and thank you.

[kimo55]

Aloha!

WE just launched a new website / FREE public service called Hawaii Crime Watch. And are looking to get Hawaii's Online Community to assist Hawaii's Authorities by reporting (posting) any type of suspicous activity, criminal acts and things of that nature. www.hawaiicrimewatch.com


purdee damn suspicious; it's down for the count!

[adrian]

uh, yea. thanks. that IS the general point that has being made here.
Whoa, I clicked reply and at last check, there was about 2 or 3 posts, but when I check back a few days later, my post went down to the bottom.

My DSL must really slowed down that time.

[mel]

As a courtesy, and against my personal preference, I have redacted the information. You should be aware, however, that your domain registration details are publicly available via a number of channels, including your own webhost. It would take anyone finding this thread exactly fifteen seconds to look it up themselves.

Yep, I recaptured the deleted information and have it with my collection of quirky text files that I keep for reference. Just go to http://whois.godaddy.com, and enter in the domain name. There are other whois domain name servers out there too.

HawaiiCrimeWatch's web board is down as of this morning when I just checked. They only have their logo up.

[HCW Team]

purdee damn suspicious; it's down for the count!

Not down just ironing out all the rough edges. We will be re-launching soon. Thanks Kimo55

[scrivener]

There are ways of having that information protected, HCW Team. My own webhost allows me to pretty much put any info I want in the WHOIS, with a few limitations. I've used fictitious names, addresses, and phone numbers, and so have a lot of other people I've looked up. I don't know how GoDaddy handles it, though, so asking them or someone else who does might be a good place to start.

But yeah. Pzarquon's right. It took fifteen seconds to get that info doing a NetSol WHOIS.

[LikaNui]

LikaNui you have some great ideas but forgive us for not answering every question (whoa boy lots of questions but VERY GOOD ONES!) we will be revising our Rules and Regs and Disclaimers because of your great questions!
I'm glad you appreciated my questions, but I have to wonder why you didn't answer them... and instead asked us to forgive you for not answering them. That's a very odd response and does nothing to help your cause whatsoever. I'd suggest that you folks invest in a good Public Relations advisor to help you through your start-up woes.

We will be approaching the authorities regarding this site.
I can't begin to imagine that anyone would take the time and expense to create as much as you've already done without having checked with the authorities as the very first step. Kinda putting the proverbial cart in front of the horse, methinks.

If you could so kindly remove the registrant information above. I have 3 little kids ages 2 to 5 and pray everyday for their safety. Having my name and address in this forum does not help secure things.
My thanks to the powers-that-be for editing those out for me. As several others have noted, the information is readily available in many other ways.
Anyway, I'll be looking forward to eventually seeing answers to the questions... hopefully sooner rather than later.

[grunchley]

Such a stand up citizen that his wife filed a restraining order against him.

Hawai'i State Judiciary
Non-Criminal Case Information Screen
1DA99-0-001649
Initiation Date: 11-02-1999 Initiation Type: N Confidential Code: N
Initiator I.D.: APS Division: Court: F
Cause of Action: TEMP REST ORDRE Nature of Action: 33000

[Glen Miyashiro]

Ooh, ouch. Welcome to the 21st century.

[1stwahine]

Although I am gigling at what grunchley found regarding the restraining order filed by the wife who wants to start a crime watch website...it is not fair to his wife to post her name and the other information. It would have been sufficient to just say, "he has a restraining order filed against him by his wife."

It is always sometimes "true" that people change for the better and want to do good for the community. In this case, I'm still gigling!

Auntie Lynn aka Auntie Pupule

PS. On closer look...it was in 1999. Case dissolved.

[Glen Miyashiro]

Although I am gigling at what grunchley found regarding the restraining order filed by the wife who wants to start a crime watch website...it is not fair to his wife to post her name and the other information. It would have been sufficient to just say, "he has a restraining order filed against him by his wife."Lynn, that wouldn't make a difference. It's like Karl Rove saying "Joe Wilson's wife" instead of saying "Valerie Plame". It takes almost no effort to learn that one is the same as the other. The bottom line is that the information is available in the public record, and the public record is extremely easy to look up these days.

[admin]

This thread has gone from skeptical to simply malicious.

Yes, anyone is free to dig up dirt on anyone else on the Internet. That doesn't mean I want it posted here. My prior courtesy to the poster should have made this clear. Just because it's true, and because it's cheap fun, doesn't make it right.

There's a time and place for rallying the Internet mob in the name of truth, justice, and the American way. Harassing someone for what appears to be a well-intentioned, but poorly executed, website is not the same thing. I'm very disappointed.

[MadAzza]

Such a stand up citizen that his wife filed a restraining order against him.

Big deal, my dog can file a restraining order. It doesn't mean the guy is guilty of anything. Restraining orders are sometimes filed in divorce cases as a preemptive strike, for example, or to keep things from getting overheated, to keep the parties away from each other.

[kimo55]

.............

Anymore ideas? We would really appreciate it.
Thanks again.


H.T is your development team, apparently. Gonna give Pzarq major props fo dees o' wot?!

[kimo55]

Harassing someone for what appears to be a well-intentioned, but poorly executed, website is not the same thing. I'm very disappointed.

I dunno;
They ask for the... ahem "harassment" by asking our opinion. and putting up a web site such as that.


It's a fuppeduck scenario all the way around. And we are supposed to be fulla aloha cus it's politically incorrect to point out inconsistencies in misdirected confusing web sites and question their motive.

It's all part of our screwy society; A web site pops up to, for the purpose of, as they say, combat, prevent or fight to any degree, any crime. Online. Except they also say 'call 911 for crime, don't use this site'
So people post what they see. Like a blog. what happens next?!
"hey. cop. I see a... what appears to be a crime. But not enuff of a crime to warrant calling 911. So i think it's a crime, but ain't too sure."
cop:
"sah-rreeee, we are busy standing on street corners giving tickets to people not wearing their seat belts..."

[lurkah]

Appears to me like HCW came here thinking it might be a "nice local place" to announce the launching of their new well-intentioned community service website, maybe with the hopes of, at worst, receiving some constructive criticism, but at best received more destructive criticism instead -- a hard lesson I hope we all can learn something from. http://ohanalanai.com/lanai/images/smilies/worried.gif

[kimo55]

maybe with the hopes of, at worst, receiving some constructive criticism, but at best received more destructive criticism instead --

I think they got what I assume most webmasters would want;
a scathing deconstructive review of the site. So there is no chance or at least very little, that when the site actually is up and running and promoted/advertised to the masses, there won't be alotta amateurish goofy glaring crap to repulse people by. A well thought out well designed site with correct grammar and spelling, containing a solid, succinctly well communicated direction and purpose, instills confidence in a web site's participants. IF... they are hypersentitive to this, perhaps they should seek another outlet for their creativity, such as building sand castles on a remote island...

[lurkah]

I think they got what I assume most webmasters would want;
a scathing deconstructive review of the site. So there is no chance or at least very little, that when the site actually is up and running and promoted/advertised to the masses, there won't be alotta amateurish goofy glaring crap to repulse people by. A well thought out well designed site with correct grammar and spelling, containing a solid, succinctly well communicated direction and purpose, instills confidence in a web site's participants. IF... they are hypersentitive to this, perhaps they should seek another outlet for their creativity, such as building sand castles on a remote island...
Aloha!

WE just launched a new website / FREE public service called Hawaii Crime Watch. And are looking to get Hawaii's Online Community to assist Hawaii's Authorities by reporting (posting) any type of suspicous activity, criminal acts and things of that nature.

Let's help keep Hawaii safe for our future!

Mahalos ~
HCW Team
www.hawaiicrimewatch.comYes, you assumed they wanted a "scathing deconstructive review of the site". Sorry, but I'm not seeing it anywhere in their original post. Could it be a personal knee-jerk reaction to wanting to most always reply with an answer skewed towards being cynical and sarcastic? Your very first reply to me in the wrestling thread is a very good example. But, no baddah me. I can hando. Other folks might see that and never come back. Although that probably wouldn't bother you, it would bother me...because I'm not as "tantaran" as you.

[kimo55]

Yes, you assumed they wanted a "scathing deconstructive review of the site".



yep, yer right, they didn't diRECTally ask for it. It is mostly implied. maybe unconciously.
It may simply be nothing more or less sinister (or innocent) than my eternal optimism when I see a site such as this to think they may be thinkin';
"hey guys, lookee here... whatcha think? give it yer best shot."
and we do.

and looka duh re act shun:
the site is down for remodeling!
huh.
I would say they got their money's worth.
woonchuh?

[scrivener]

I'm not sure how I feel about this. I did say I was reserving judgment in my original post because this HCW thing seemed a little iffy. Kimo and LikaNui voiced some very specific, very meaningful criticisms. LikaNui and I both posted the name behind the website's registration (I just noticed that admin hasn't edited the name from my post). Craig said hey, let's ease up a little. The intentions looked pretty good to him. "HCW Team" (which appears to be the person named in my post) said thanks for the input; I'll definitely consider the suggestions and issues.

So far, it was perhaps not the most aloha-filled thread, but while the tone of some posts may have seemed harsh, the subject matter, especially from LikaNui, seemed to be in keeping with the purpose of HawaiiThreads. HT isn't meant to be a place where people just post announcements of their personal projects and that's it; that's why there's the "post reply" button. It's about conversation.

Grunchley's post certainly seemed below the belt and it did seem mean-spirited, but it wasn't entirely out of place; I'd assumed that the purpose of the HCW site was to put up information exactly like that, and I'm not a big fan of that sort of thing. It's true that anyone can file a restaining order and that an accusation doesn't imply guilt, but wasn't the entire content of the HCW site going to be accusations?

In any case, I didn't agree with Ryan's decision to edit the original info, but he's right when he says his doing so should have made it clear that this isn't what he wanted on his discussion board.

What's giving me an oojie feeling is that we don't handle stuff like this with much tact or gentleness. We did the same thing with the Bus Stories person, and while everyone had concerns worth posting, just as it did here, the concern turned to an odd hostility that didn't seem warranted.

I want people to tell us about their new web-projects. I want to feel free to praise or criticize the efforts. I just want us all to be able to do it with some degree of civility.

[kimo55]

I want people to tell us about their new web-projects. I want to feel free to praise or criticize the efforts. I just want us all to be able to do it with some degree of civility.



I want world peace, too.

[lurkah]

yep, yer right, they didn't diRECTally ask for it. It is mostly implied. maybe unconciously.
Or it might not have even been there in the first place. Unless you know the other party fairly well, it's always dangerous to assume anything. I'd like to give HCW the benefit of the doubt by thinking that they thought that their website was as ready as ready can be, and if they wanted to seek website-related opinions and criticisms, they could have polled a smaller audience, like maybe their own personal circle of friends, before making a "grand opening" type of announcement like they did here. Scrivener said, "What's giving me an oojie feeling is that we don't handle stuff like this with much tact or gentleness." That gives me an oojie feeling too, which I think it should. What's good about all of this is it gives us all a chance to "look in the mirror" and reflect on where each of us is coming from.

[Glen Miyashiro]

What's giving me an oojie feeling is that we don't handle stuff like this with much tact or gentleness. We did the same thing with the Bus Stories person, and while everyone had concerns worth posting, just as it did here, the concern turned to an odd hostility that didn't seem warranted.It depends on the nature of the project. In both cases you mention, I think the creators had it coming.

In the Bus Stories case, there were concerns raised about the guy potentially profiting off of others' work without their clear knowledge or permission. That seemed to me to be a reasonable thing to be critical of.

In this HCW case, I agree with Kimo and LikaNui that it's questionable as to exactly what kind of information the site would offer, and what value such information would offer. If it's actionable, then shouldn't you go to the authorities? And if it's not, then what have you got? Just innuendo and accusations.

I do think that posting the guy's old TRO was malicious, in poor taste, and not especially relevant to the discussion.

But I think the thing that set my hackles rising in both of these cases was that the creators of these web sites didn't effectively explain who they were, and what they were about. Over the Internet, where all that people can judge you by are your words, it's critical that you explain yourself when you ask others to give of themselves for your project.

[kimo55]

Could it be a personal knee-jerk reaction to wanting to most always reply with an answer skewed towards being cynical and sarcastic? Your very first reply to me in the wrestling thread is a very good example.

dass cuz ya replied:
"Dang, I thought dat buggah wen mahke long time ago. "
which to some, may imply a wee bit of a quizzical sense of dissapointment.
("dang; he ain't dead!?")
ya know, li dat.
So... as is employed often and with good results, I respond with what you view as cynicism and sarcasm.
For the same reason it is employed for centuries in a worldwide scope;
to ferret out your true and real and expanded feelings. debate and discussion help solidify your convictions. If someone's stance is not clear, it may be pointed out, and in a fashion not quite accustomed to by some. Doesn't mean ya otta run and hide. or say "yer not communicating like i wanna"


But, no baddah me. I can hando.

that's what i thought, and that's why i threw ya something I thot you can hando.


Other folks might see that and never come back.

and that's their limitation and their lack of mental wherewithall or conversational backbone. Who wants weaklings in the ring who don't wanna be entertained?

[scrivener]

It depends on the nature of the project. In both cases you mention, I think the creators had it coming.
I don't know about this. They certainly had the criticism coming, but they both presented ideas that were perhaps not very well-thought-out, and that by itself doesn't deserve hostility. A gentle "hey, have you thought about this?" is probably all it takes.

[lurkah]

dass cuz ya replied:
"Dang, I thought dat buggah wen mahke long time ago. "
which to some, may imply a wee bit of a quizzical sense of dissapointment.
("dang; he ain't dead!?")
Maybe to those with a pessimistic view of things. Someone with an optimistic view might have seen my remark as, "Wow, I thought he died long time ago, but he's still alive!", which is how it was intended. Somehow the word "assume" keeps coming back. :D

[lurkah]

I don't know about this. They certainly had the criticism coming, but they both presented ideas that were perhaps not very well-thought-out, and that by itself doesn't deserve hostility. A gentle "hey, have you thought about this?" is probably all it takes.
http://ohanalanai.com/lanai/images/smilies/shaka.gif

[Glen Miyashiro]

I don't know about this. They certainly had the criticism coming, but they both presented ideas that were perhaps not very well-thought-out, and that by itself doesn't deserve hostility. A gentle "hey, have you thought about this?" is probably all it takes.This is where my point comes in about the nature of the Internet. If this was somebody coming to a neighborhood meeting and proposing a new thing, you could look him in the eye and say that. But over the Internet, I have no idea who this person is or what his intentions are. Maybe he's well-meaning, or maybe he's slimy. I can't tell. And I guess it's sad to say, but I usually assume the worst.

[LikaNui]

Maybe we all ought to take a little 'time out' here, as this thread is degenerating rapidly.
When the thread started, I had some basic and obvious questions about the HCW website. When HCW replied, they didn't answer any of the questions but at least had the sense to take their website down because of the questions and are, hopefully, working to fix it.
I was also aware of the TRO situation in the beginning but felt it was irrelevant to the website issue, so I chose to ignore it and didn't mention it.
Let's all just chill for a bit, k?

[kimo55]

A gentle "hey, have you thought about this?" is probably all it takes.


we all have our own degrees of gentle-ness, and our own ways of saying "hey, have you thought about this?"
the delivery shouldn't diminish the message any less or more...

[kimo55]

Maybe to those with a pessimistic view of things. Someone with an optimistic view might have seen my remark as, "Wow, I thought he died long time ago, but he's still alive!", which is how it was intended. Somehow the word "assume" keeps coming back. :D
I am pessimistically optimitstic you knew, even tho I assume, as we all to to some extent, it goes further than that and you will have ocular proof of that if you read fully my poststs's.

[kimo55]

I don't know about this. They certainly had the criticism coming, but they both presented ideas that were perhaps not very well-thought-out, and that by itself doesn't deserve hostility. A gentle "hey, have you thought about this?" is probably all it takes.



I don't see it as "hostility" or as having been taken as such, but as constructive (albeit a lil hard'n'fast) criticism, which they appreciate, it looks like...
IF... they have a thin a skin as is assumed, they ought not be in the industry in which they... are in...

[lurkah]

If this was somebody coming to a neighborhood meeting and proposing a new thing, you could look him in the eye and say that. But over the Internet, I have no idea who this person is or what his intentions are. Maybe he's well-meaning, or maybe he's slimy. I can't tell. And I guess it's sad to say, but I usually assume the worst.
In its own way, wouldn't you say that HawaiiThreads.com is more of a local-type Hawaiian-style neighborhood meeting mostly made up of non-slimy folks, rather than an "anything goes" type of world-wide chatroom or message board that can be found on websites like AOL? I think maybe we unintentionally bring that "usually assume the worst" kind of attitude in from the outside instead of checking it at the door like we do with our virtual rubbah slippahs. :D

[Glen Miyashiro]

In its own way, wouldn't you say that HawaiiThreads.com is more of a local-type Hawaiian-style neighborhood meeting mostly made up of non-slimy folks, rather than an "anything goes" type of world-wide chatroom or message board that can be found on websites like AOL? I think maybe we unintentionally bring that "usually assume the worst" kind of attitude in from the outside instead of checking it at the door like we do with our virtual rubbah slippahs. :DNo. No, I wouldn't. Not until someone's at least said howzit and made a few comments. People like HCW Team show up, register, and the first thing out of their mouths is "hey, come look at my web site!" What am I supposed to think about these people? I don't know anything about them, how they are, what their opinions are, nothing.

Now, if Kimo55 says "hey, come look at my web site!", I have a general idea of what it might be, because Kimo has said enough that I can guess where he might be coming from. I might not like his web site, but at least he's made an effort to be a part of this community first.

[kimo55]

In its own way, wouldn't you say that HawaiiThreads.com is more of a local-type Hawaiian-style neighborhood meeting mostly made up of non-slimy folks, rather than an "anything goes" type of world-wide chatroom...

...let me uh... 'assume' where yer goin with this, and let me say this, about that:
a diversity of opinions and perspectives as well as equally diverse ways of expressing them is not usually looked upon as a universally reviled thing; in fact is quite welcome in some thinking circles....
To generate a distilled forum wherein everyone talks the same and agrees on everything and where there is no exchange of ideas, no challenging of the status quo, or even dissecting of non thought out firm-held common believes or ideas... . that' ain't good or healthy for children and other living things.

[HCW Team]

Wow this thread did generate a whole lot of responses - sorry about that. This was not our intentions, I almost regret posting it here but hey if I didn't I wouldn't get all those very smart questions and issues we (The HCW Team) have to deal with.

We have so far got support from Mike Lopilato Executive Director of the popular CrimeWatch USA, Inc. and have been colaborating with someone who is an ex-HPD Officer and INTERPOL Agent who is currently working for the Government. As soon as we work everything out your questions will be answered either in this forum or on our site.

I like Mike Lopilato's signature in his email:

"All evil needs to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
Edmund Burke


Thanks again HawaiiThreads!
HCW Team

[lurkah]

...let me uh... 'assume' where yer goin with this, and let me say this, about that:
a diversity of opinions and perspectives as well as equally diverse ways of expressing them is not usually looked upon as a universally reviled thing; in fact is quite welcome in some thinking circles....
To generate a distilled forum wherein everyone talks the same and agrees on everything and where there is no exchange of ideas, no challenging of the status quo, or even dissecting of non thought out firm-held common believes or ideas... . that' ain't good or healthy for children and other living things.http://ohanalanai.com/lanai/images/smilies/huh.gif Hah? http://ohanalanai.com/lanai/images/smilies/roll.gif

No, I don't think that HawaiiThreads.com is a petrie dish that contains only good germs. Get good germs, bad germs, big germs, small germs, get anykine germs that make up the contents of the petrie dish. But unless given obvious reasons to spray disinfectant, I personally wouldn't try to sterilize the petrie dish without first checking the bad germs out. They haven't hurt me because they're still in the petrie dish, and they might not be bad at all upon closer inspection. And if they are, then they can be exposed, irradicated and dealt with while still being contained within da petrie dish. In other words, maybe can try look and listen first before letting any preconceived ideas we might have blind us to what's really there.

[pzarquon]

I can see Glen's point, insofar as we rightfully treat with some skepticism anyone who registers and posts a first message that is promotional in nature. Most of the time, we hear nothing from them again -- at least in this case, HCW has made some effort to reply.

But asking legitimate questions about a web project and posting court records about the domain registrant -- however public and official that information is -- still crosses the line between being suspicious and being mean. Part of me thinks its ironic that at the same time we've decried the possibility of "vigilante justice" being mindlessly propogated by the web site in question, someone here has actually gone down that road.

There are some fora online where chaos reigns supreme, where it's dog-eat-dog and where it's every geek for himself. Like Lurkah, I'd like to think this is not one of those places. There are plenty of back alleys where you can prowl if you're looking for trouble. Let HawaiiThreads.com be more like your auntie's spacious lanai. There's some funny looks and the occasional barb, but I hope we don't make a habit of tarring and feathering everyone who walks up the front steps.

[LikaNui]

But asking legitimate questions about a web project and posting court records about the domain registrant -- however public and official that information is -- still crosses the line between being suspicious and being mean.
Okay, Ryan, I'm a little unclear on the comment above. I presume you meant it's okay to ask legitimate questions (like mine here earlier, presumably) but that the TRO posting crossed the line? Or are you saying that asking legitimate questions also crosses the line?
Just a little clarification, please.

[LikaNui]

Wow this thread did generate a whole lot of responses - sorry about that.
No need to apologize. The forum is here to generate questions and responses!
You've been very kind (and wise) in not taking some of the responses personally. In any internet group there will always be a few whose manners are less than desirable. Best to ignore them, as you've done. There's a lot of "thread drift" going on here, so just skip over the personality clashes and focus on the comments that you find helpful.

I almost regret posting it here but hey if I didn't I wouldn't get all those very smart questions and issues we (The HCW Team) have to deal with.
Believe me, most of us here hope that what you're trying to do is legitimate and will be of some help! No regrets. Keep plugging away and if your project is righteous then most of us will support it to the max.
:)

[grunchley]

Grunchley's post certainly seemed below the belt and it did seem mean-spirited, but it wasn't entirely out of place;

My intention wasn't at all to be mean spirited, it was to address the credibility of the person operating the site. It seems to me that if you operate a website that proclaims to act as a neighborhood watch, the credibility of those in charge should be questioned and addressed.

If an individual were to form a neighborhood watch group in my neighborhood, I'd want to make sure he or she wasn't a felon or sex offender.

[pzarquon]

Okay, Ryan, I'm a little unclear on the comment above.Sorry about that. I started the sentence with "they are two different things" in mind, but by the time I got halfway in, I forgot my point. It's not the first time. Sorry for the confusion! My intention wasn't at all to be mean spirited, it was to address the credibility of the person operating the site.Whatever your intention, if the public WHOIS information was redacted out of courtesy to the poster, I think it would've been obvious that posting a court record would have been received poorly.

I see your point, but I still think it was overkill considering the circumstances. I don't think you were the only person here to go looking for more information on the domain registrant (in fact, I know you weren't). The difference is, you felt compelled to post it. A TRO filing, six years ago and quietly expired, in and of itself is not proof of a questionable character. And only marginally relevant.

We can give everyone we meet the first degree, do a full background and credit check, and even respectfully request a drug test. But we use our judgement to determine just how far we should go. Clearly you felt you were in the right, but I hope in the future you'll keep the overall spirit tenor of this admittedly diverse community in mind before pulling out the big guns.

[lurkah]

If an individual were to form a neighborhood watch group in my neighborhood, I'd want to make sure he or she wasn't a felon or sex offender.
I'm not so sure we should toss all felons in the opala heap just because they're felons, especially if they did their time and had the guts and determination to turn themselves around against all odds to become caring and productive citizens again. People can change. I've seen it. If you don't give them a chance to prove themselves, then what's the point? We all make mistakes. It's part of being human.

This felon seems to be doing pretty well for himself and his 'ohana...

http://www.dogthebountyhunter.com/cover905-1.jpg

From watching his TV show here on the mainland, it looks like his house is located somewhere in the wealthy Kahala area.

[kimo55]

In other words, maybe can try look and listen first before letting any preconceived ideas we might have blind us to what's really there.

word, bruthah.

[kimo55]

Hah?



read it a few times. it will soon become clear.

[pzarquon]

From watching his TV show here on the mainland, it looks like his house is located somewhere in the wealthy Kahala area.Doing well for one's self financially, or living in a "nice neighborhood," does not equal "good person." Ironic that you'd cite Duane "Dog" Chapman as a positive example, considering some of the past... colorful threads we've had here focused around the man. :p

[lurkah]

Doing well for one's self financially, or living in a "nice neighborhood," does not equal "good person."
That's true, but I think you know that the example I was going for was he's come quite a ways from being locked up behind bars -- an accomplishment that any felon should be able to be proud of, and should not have to feel any lesser than the next man if he's got his head back on straight and his heart is truly in the right place. They say that, "Time will tell," and so far, he seems to be doing his time better than a lot of us.



Ironic that you'd cite Duane "Dog" Chapman as a positive example, considering some of the past... colorful threads we've had here focused around the man. :p
Oh. :o So would it be safe to assume that "The Dog" got processed through the "HT Meatgrinder" as well? :D

[kimo55]

So would it be safe to [i]assume that "The Dog" got processed through the "HT Meatgrinder" as well?



do a search and see for yerself.

[lurkah]

do a search and see for yerself.
Thanks, that was interesting. Too bad the thread ended the way it did: "This topic is temporarily suspended. Too many off-topic posts."

[LikaNui]

I see your point, but I still think it was overkill considering the circumstances. I don't think you were the only person here to go looking for more information on the domain registrant (in fact, I know you weren't). The difference is, you felt compelled to post it. A TRO filing, six years ago and quietly expired, in and of itself is not proof of a questionable character. And only marginally relevant.
We can give everyone we meet the first degree, do a full background and credit check, and even respectfully request a drug test. But we use our judgement to determine just how far we should go. Clearly you felt you were in the right, but I hope in the future you'll keep the overall spirit tenor of this admittedly diverse community in mind before pulling out the big guns.
Okay, I'd just like to clarify something. In Ryan's post (message #62) he quoted me and responded to that, then he quoted Grunchley (but without noting that the response was to a different person) and wrote the two paragraphs above. Those were aimed at Grunchley, not at LikaNui.
Carry on.

[LikaNui]

As soon as we work everything out your questions will be answered either in this forum or on our site. Thanks again HawaiiThreads!
HCW Team
Well, that was a month ago and I just checked their website, out of curiosity. Still nothing there except a "coming soon" announcement.