Are we ready for our next hurricane?

[Glen Miyashiro]

I've pretty much gone numb from the news on the drowning of New Orleans. The point that has driven home into my brain, though, is that it's not the hurricane itself that's the worst part. It's the aftermath, especially if you're not ready for it. (Insert rant on the ongoing clusterf--- in New Orleans.)

What's going to happen the next time Hawai‘i gets hit by a major hurricane? Hurricane Iniki in 1992 was a Category 4 hurricane, and it plowed into Kaua‘i head-on. Kaua‘i didn't recover for more than a year after it hit. Honolulu has never in living memory been hit head-on by a hurricane; the storms always have seemed to swerve to avoid O‘ahu and then hung a right to whack Kaua‘i instead, like a lazy bowling ball with a lot of english on it. Maybe it's some kind of meterological phenomenon having to do with the high mountains sticking up out of the sea, or maybe it's just random chance. I wouldn't count on it happening every time, though.

When -- not if -- Honolulu gets whacked, it will be a mess. Relief will be on the way by plane, but planes can carry only so much. If the power plants (all on coastlines near the storm surge, mind you) are damaged, we may be without power for weeks or months. If the Honolulu International Airport is damaged (again, on the coastline -- especially the Reef Runway) then air support will slow to a trickle as planes have to squeeze onto other, lesser airstrips. The same goes for Honolulu Harbor.

Is your household ready? Do you have an emergency kit packed? Do you have communication plans set up so that if your family is separated -- at school, work, wherever -- you'll be able to get back in touch? This year's hurricane season isn't over yet; Iniki was in September 1992 and Iwa before that was in November 1982. Now would be a good time to get ready.

[admin]

For conversation fodder, feel free to browse similar earlier threads:


Is O'ahu ready for disaster? (http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showthread.php?t=4914)
Hurricane Havoc (http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showthread.php?t=2480)
A good question to ask periodically. What are the things we'd be saying we "never imagined" in the aftermath of our next major storm strike?

[Miulang]

You State disaster experts (http://www.thehawaiichannel.com/news/4927770/detail.html) swear that they'll be ready if disaster strikes in Hawai'i. I still think it would be a good idea for each person to have a personal emergency plan, including a survival kit, ready in case help can't get to you immediately.

"Officials in Hawaii said they've learned from disasters in the state about how to coordinate county, (comma) state and federal agencies and to plan for unlikely scenarios. They also look at improvements in equipment such as the radio system that links fire, police, paramedics and state and federal agencies. The new system still works radio-to-radio if relay towers are knocked out.

"Even if we lose everything, get down to the basic level. The first responders can at least speak to each other to move through their operations," said Cortney Chambers, of Emergency Medical Services.

EMS has also picked up a piece of important equipment: a multiuse trailer that can be taken to an isolated area and then used for anything from an emergency room to a command center.

The trailer has satellite communications capability and a shiny new tractor to pull it. ..."

I like that "shiny new tractor" part...

Miulang

[Linkmeister]

Here's a generic go bag list.

http://www.sff.net/people/doylemacdonald/emerg_kit.htm

Modify accordingly to suit Hawai'i needs.

[Miulang]

For the flashlights and radios, if you can find the hand crank ones you won't ever have to worry about dead batteries. Check with your local Red Cross branch. They carry disaster supplies like the hand powered radios, and first aid kits (for people and pets).

Miulang

[1stwahine]

Mahalo! I've been worried sick since Katrina hit. We have monthly meetings for a Family reunion that is planned for July 2006. Meetings are held every first Sunday, what a great opportunity to share the above information with my family. MAMA and I would probably be safe in our concrete unit but if not I'll go to the Lanakila Shelter. I shudder to think of what can happen and pray it doesn't. As far as food, supplies, medicines, etc., we are READY!

Auntie Lynn and MAMA
Downtown, Honolulu

PS. I'm still SCARED!

[Palolo Joe]

I still think it would be a good idea for each person to have a personal emergency plan, including a survival kit, ready in case help can't get to you immediately.

Besides telling the public they're ready to handle a hurricane situation, government officials have always urged residents to do just that - have a personal emergency plan and survival kit.

Same stuff they say every hurricane season.

[helen]

For myself, if something bad happenned now I guess I am screwed. If had ample warning, let's say 4 to 6 hours warning, then I can prepare for it. The one thing good about hurricanes is that we have at least day and half warning at the worst case or maybe up to 4 days advanced warning and if it misses fine, the food and water could be used later on.

[Miulang]

The main reason for getting all your emergency stuff ready before a hurricane or tsunami is if you wait until the alert is sounded (even if they give you 6 hours' notice), you're going to be competing with thousands of other people who haven't prepared either. I, for one, wouldn't want to have to sit in a long gas line or go to a supermarket and have to fight with crowds who are after the same things I need. At the very least, have a small backpack with the essentials in it right next to your front door (some food and water, a list of your medications if you're taking any). Based on the experience from Katrina, you're probably going to have to rely on your own wits and survival instincts for a few days before the government help finally kicks in.

Miulang

[Peshkwe]

The small cans of protine drinks as well as packets of protine drink powder would be good to keep in the bag...might not taste great but when your regular packet foods run out it'll keep body and soul together a while longer.

[toeknee]

You're right, Miulang. Early prep is crucial. Keeping those supplies around at all times, updated regularly, just in case, is key. If there's one lesson Katrina has taught, its that it's best to rely on yourself and your neighbors, family and friends, first, the government rescue effort second. Odds are, you'll be on your own for days or even weeks after the disaster. As far a shelter is concerned, I'm considering having my tent, flashlight, food and water ready to set up house inside the Thurston Lava Tube at Hawaii Volcanoes National Park. It's at a high elevation (No storm surge) and underground, protected from the wind and rain. Perfect. As long as there no badly time revival of the original eruption that created it.... :eek:

[Miulang]

Bob Kraus (http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050904/COLUMNISTS01/509040347/1119/NEWS) had an interesting column in the Advertiser last week about how by not respecting Mother Nature, that she will take revenge big time:

"...Maybe it's time we wonder if the gods, after all, might not be angry. Maybe Mother Nature is becoming impatient with us human beings who take her bounty for granted. She may be reminding us that we have been breaking her rules too long. Now she is making us pay.

It is sobering to realize that what happened in New Orleans and Shanghai are merely blips in nature's weather pattern. Hundreds of thousands were affected in the typhoon that hit Shanghai. In New Orleans, nobody knows yet how many have died. By turning up the intensity a few notches, Mother Nature can kill millions without blinking an eye.

What's scary is that larger disasters are yet to come unless we start paying attention. Fast-forward a century. The ocean level has risen because ice at the poles continues to melt. Hurricanes and typhoons have intensified because global warming has messed up the weather patterns.

By that time, populations have increased in the desirable seashore areas, including Hawai'i. A hurricane like Katrina would wipe out Waikiki exactly as it did New Orleans. Any coastal city would be vulnerable, millions of people at risk. With increased storm activity, we could count on not two or three big hits a year, but a dozen or more. Water systems, police protection, healthcare would break down. Looting would be rampant...."

The kanaka maoli and all indigenous people throughout the world have always had a respect for the land. They have intuitively known that if you take care of the land, it will keep you safe and fed. From such "simple" cultures, maybe we should take some lessons. The world may continue to turn...but we have a choice of whether it turns with human beings walking on it or not.

Miulang

[waioli kai]

The one thing good about hurricanes is that we have at least day and half warning at the worst case.

I doubt there is a single Hurricane Iniki-surviving soul on Kauai (or a visitor to Kauai of that time) who would second the opinion "The one thing good about hurricanes is that we have at least day and half warning at the worst case".

Our story began on Thursday, September 10, 1992. ... On our way back to the condo, the car radio reported that the storm was passing several hundred miles south of the big island (Hawaii) and was expected to have no effect on the island of Kauai.

At about 5:00 AM Friday (9/11/92), we woke to air-raid sirens and tuned into the local radio station to find out what was going on. Iniki had performed a trick they call "recurrence" over night, and was heading toward us! At that time, it was expected to hit the island of Oahu which is a hundred miles southeast. Over the next few hours, the forecast changed to say that Iniki was going to pass between the two islands. I went to the gas station and filled the tank. Nothing else was open. We then packed up, and checked out of the condo by about 7:30 AM. By this time, local authorities were predicting that the hurricane would start to hit at about noon, with peak winds around 5:00 PM ..... .... A tale of hurricane Iniki (http://theepicenter.com/the_tale.html) theepicenter.com/the_tale
.

[Glen Miyashiro]

A hurricane like Katrina would wipe out Waikiki exactly as it did New Orleans. Any coastal city would be vulnerable, millions of people at risk.Errr, not exactly. New Orleans was drowned because it's below sea level, so the floodwaters didn't drain naturally. If Honolulu gets hit with a hurricane, we'll have a lot of wind and water damage but once the storm passes the water will drain away.

[Miulang]

Errr, not exactly. New Orleans was drowned because it's below sea level, so the floodwaters didn't drain naturally. If Honolulu gets hit with a hurricane, we'll have a lot of wind and water damage but once the storm passes the water will drain away.
Tell that to Bob Kraus. I know that NO is below sea level and Honolulu is at sea level. But why quibble over 6 feet of elevation? I think his point was that everyone--regardless where they live (Honolulu being his frame of reference) needs to ensure that they know what they have to do if they are subjected to abnormal weather conditions. He's also not the only one who thinks that we are in a cycle of really abnormal weather which means more severe storms. And the rest of that statement..."Any coastal city would be vulnerable, millions of people at risk. With increased storm activity, we could count on not two or three big hits a year, but a dozen or more. Water systems, police protection, healthcare would break down. Looting would be rampant..." what can we do to insure this part doesn't happen, and if we can't prevent it from happening, what can we do to mitigate the length of its impact?

Miulang

[helen]

I agree with Glen that if Oahu gets hit with a hurricane we will suffer a lot of wind related damage as well as flooding from sea surges but after the storm passes the water is not going to stick around. Sure it's going to take time to clean up after the storm but it won't be delayed by standing flood waters like New Orleans.

While I can understand some people are looting stores for supplies in New Orleans what I don't get is some people are taking arms against the people are either trying to repair the damage or evacuting people from the area, this is bizzare and unexpect behavior.

[Miulang]

Flooding aside, does your city and state government have plans to ensure that there are minimal power or phone (landline and cellular) outages that will be caused by the high winds and surf? Does the fire dept have plans for rescuing people from those skyscraper buildings in Waikiki if they need to be evacuated? Do the police have contingency plans if there are civil disturbances? Are there enough Reservists still available in Honolulu on call to help out?

Even with the flooding in NO, convoys of trucks were finally able to make it in from other states to deliver relief supplies. Hawai'i is a series of islands. You will have to rely primarily on what's already on the island for some period of time before help from the "outside" (i.e., the Neighbor Islands, if they weren't affected, or the Mainland by plane) can get to you.

Miulang

[Palolo Joe]

Hawai'i is a series of islands. You will have to rely primarily on what's already on the island for some period of time before help from the "outside" (i.e., the Neighbor Islands, if they weren't affected, or the Mainland by plane) can get to you.
Once again, you're stating the obvious. And it's Krauss, not Kraus.

The government of the State of Hawaii, the City and County of Honolulu and Oahu Civil Defense have procedures in place to deal with the aftermath of a hurricane.

One key difference between Hawaii and the mainland - while there are lots of stupid people up there looting and shooting at authorities, locals out here will be more apt to go out of their way and help their neighbors. Even under the most dire circumstances, I'm sure there will be examples of the Aloha Spirit in action.

Then again, you can prepare all you want, but you never know exactly what will happen until disaster actually strikes.

[Miulang]

The people who were causing the violent crimes in NO during the aftermath of the hurricane were chronics and drug dealers, not the majority of the citizens (you can even use Pareto's law to stretch it and say 20% of the people who remained in NO were the ones causing the problem; 80% of the people stuck at the Convention Ctr and the Superdome were law abiding). I'm sure Auntie Lynn can attest to the fact that there are quite a few chronics and dealers in Chinatown; just go read her blog. My guess is they would do anything to feed their habits, just like junkies anywhere else in the world.

Miulang

[Palolo Joe]

The people who were causing the violent crimes in NO during the aftermath of the hurricane were chronics and drug dealers, not the majority of the citizens. I'm sure Auntie Lynn can attest to the fact that there are quite a few chronics and dealers in Chinatown; just go read her blog. My guess is they would do anything to feed their habits, just like junkies anywhere else in the world.
Don't need to read her blog - I was just in Chinatown last weekend (and plan to go back on Wednesday to see DJ Kool Herc at Next Door), and know what it's like.

I touched on this in another thread about the hurricane. I know the violent crimes are being committed by chronics. But I also think it would be harder to loot guns and ammunition in Honolulu, and I'm pretty sure there would be a stronger HPD presence here than there was by the cops in NO.

[waioli kai]

Glen Miyashiro: "If Honolulu gets hit with a hurricane, we'll have a lot of wind and water damage but once the storm passes the water will drain away."

And if the Ala Wai canal and mauka to makai streets get choked with debris and sands from a 15 to 20 ft storm surge, would it much matter if Honolulu were inundated for 12 to 14 hrs instead of like Kartrina's New Orleans' 4 to 12 weeks? Where on O'ahu would people in the inundation zones of O'ahu evacuate in the event of a hurricane and/or a tsunami striking O'ahu?

www.co.honolulu.hi.us/refs/roh/kloa/s/24kl_ch4.doc
Heavy rainfall at the head of the valleys, combined with debris clogging the lowland channels, has on occasion overwhelmed the capacity of these drainageways. In many areas of Ko’olau Loa, the pavement of Kamehameha Highway diverts or detains the overland flow of stormwater runoff toward the ocean. This condition can cause localized flooding of the highway and mauka side properties. A federal reconnaissance study examined options for flood control along the Wailele Stream. Construction of flood control improvements including a berm is being considered...

Drainage problems exist in Kahuku in the lowland floodplains of Ohia, Kalaeo Kahipa, and Malaekahana Streams. As existing drainage facilities are inadequate during major storm events, the runoff from mauka areas floods the campus of Kahuku High and Intermediate School, as well as portions of the commercial area and the Walkerville residential area.

It is estimated that 43% of businesses never reopen following a local disaster, such as a tsunami. http://www.mothernature-hawaii.com/county_honolulu/tsunami_what_can_work-oahu.htm
It is estimated that 43% of businesses never reopen following a local disaster, such as a hurricane.


http://www.fema.gov/about/history.shtm Billions of dollars of new funding were directed to FEMA to help communities face the threat of terrorism. Just a few years past its 20th anniversary, FEMA was actively directing its "all-hazards" approach to disasters toward homeland security issues. In March 2003, FEMA joined 22 other federal agencies, programs and offices in becoming the Department of Homeland Security. The new department, headed by Secretary Tom Ridge, brought a coordinated approach to national security from emergencies and disasters - both natural and man-made. Today, FEMA is one of four major branches of DHS. About 2,500 full-time employees in the Emergency Preparedness and Response Directorate are supplemented by more than 5,000 stand-by disaster reservists.

As it has for more than 20 years, FEMA's mission remains: to lead America to prepare for, prevent, respond to and recover from disasters with a vision of "A Nation Prepared." At no time in its history has this vision been more important to the country than in the aftermath of Sept. 11th.Last Updated: Saturday, 23-Oct-2004 00:00:00 EDT

Evacuation routes? Depends on what the evacuation is for. At the UH Manoa Campus if everyone ends up in his/her own allotted 10sqft (ie, in the building one ends up in) there is space for a little over 47,000 people, who are to bring their own water and food. The 47,000 estimate was a 1983 figure concerning UH Manoa being an evacuation shelter 10 miles from a potential ground zero nuclear attack on Pearl Harbor.

The vast majority of us no doubt just think along the lines of: "I'll deal with when I must; when the sirens go off!"

[lavagal]

A hurricane would certainly test all of the new housing built since Hurricane Iniki from Makakilo Ridge to Kamehame Ridge. I'm personally grateful that the city cleans the ditch that runs behind my house from the mostly green waste my neighbors dump into it. We had a few heavy rains last winter where the ditch overflowed onto the street at the bottom, just a few blocks before the marina.
Each week, or even each day, if we did something around our homes that helped us achieve flight of foot in times of emergency, we'd all be better off. I keep watching our canopies out back roil from the wind just today! I'm losing avocados meant for Christmas guacamole! It could be so much worse!

[Miulang]

With regard to violent crimes in Hawai'i...how easy is it to get your hands on a gun or rifle as a civilian? Do the Walmarts in Hawai'i sell guns like they do in some stores on the Mainland? Apparently, that's where some of the looted guns were coming from in NO. I belonged to my high school rifle club briefly (funny, but a lot of the "good" kids joined that club or the band) and probably could remember how to shoot a rifle if I had to.

Miulang

[helen]

Not impossible but Wal-Mart is not the only place in Oahu that sell guns and ammo.

[Palolo Joe]

Of course it's not. There are a number of stores that sell firearms and ammo.

I don't think there are as many retailers here as there are in the areas affected by Katrina... that's common sense. I'd also be willing to bet that looters would have a much more difficult time getting their hands on the weapons.

And as I've said before, I think local people themselves will be a strong enough deterrent against the type of violence that's happening on the mainland.

[Surfingfarmboy]

My local NBC affiliate made reference to a recent online Forbes article about Honolulu being the best place to avoid natural disasters in the USA They also mentioned Monroe, LA was the worst.

I had to check this out for myself at the Forbes web site.

Here's the link in case if any of you might be interested.

Honolulu the best place to be (http://www.forbes.com/home_europe/realestate/2005/08/30/safestplaces-insurance-realestate-cx_sc_0830home_ls.html)

Skip the intro if it pops up; the link should then take you directly to the article.

[Miulang]

"You're only as safe as you think you are and your government can con you into believing that you are."

Eesh. That Forbes article isn't going to do much for Hawai'i as far as keeping more people from the Mainland moving over there if they are afraid of natural disasters.

Miulang

[Tiger Beer]

I wouldn't mind reading some of Auntie Lynn's blog of Honolulu's chinatown? whats the website address?

Regarding a typhoon in Hawaii.. with the massive military presense in Hawaii.. I'd think they'd be deployed significantly sooner than what happened in New Orleans. Plus Honolulu actually seems to have a lot of really good people living there. Some of those mainland cities while having good people, also have an element to it in inner-cities that don't quite respond the way you'd think usually happens when a natural disaster happens - ie helping each other out.

You really get to see a city's soul when something like that happens. I was just thinking of other natural disasters where people go way out of their way helping each out. For example, the tsunami in Phuket.. tons of stories of local Thais going way out of their way helping out foreigners.. and people just looking out for each other. They didn't just go nuts stealing everything they could at the opportunity.

Anyhow, everyone everywhere should always be prepared for something wherever they live.

[Miulang]

I wouldn't mind reading some of Auntie Lynn's blog of Honolulu's chinatown? whats the website address?
.
Here ya go (http://www.auntiepupule.com/blog/), Tiger. Auntie writes in stream of consciousness mode, but she never fabricates or tries to pretty up any of her blogposts. She really is one cool wahine. I want to meet her next time I'm in Honolulu.

Miulang

[MadAzza]

Anyhow, everyone everywhere should always be prepared for something wherever they live.

Can I nominate this as the quote of the week? Yeah, it's only Tuesday, but I think it's a keeper!

(cracking up laughing, but not in a "mean-spirited" way!)

[1stwahine]

Wow Tita Miulang! Mahalo for the plug. tiger, I hope you visit. Like Tita Miulang said...I don't fabricate. I tell it like I see it. My words are to the point, unlike on the boards. We have rules and regulations which I abide to...ok, sometimes I go off.

What was this thread about? Oh, are we ready for our next hurricane? I think I covered this already. I've already started with can goods and water, medications. Water needs to be replaced every so often as does can goods. We would know before hand when one would occur so Ice would be a major purchase to keep whatever meat you have in freezer or ice chest longer.

I think I'm getting manic. I better go take a chill pill.

Auntie Lynn ;)

[1stwahine]

Don't need to read her blog - I was just in Chinatown last weekend (and plan to go back on Wednesday to see DJ Kool Herc at Next Door), and know what it's like.

I touched on this in another thread about the hurricane. I know the violent crimes are being committed by chronics. But I also think it would be harder to loot guns and ammunition in Honolulu, and I'm pretty sure there would be a stronger HPD presence here than there was by the cops in NO.

Aloha Palolo Joe, It's after Midnight. I no moa nothing to do. I just going over some threads. I see this one. I like in shock brah. I know you not one regular reader but come'on you, yourself told me you visit my blog. So no ack. As for Chinatown...das my Beat. Ok?

Auntie Lynn

P.S. So how was Next Door?

[Palolo Joe]

So how was Next Door?
If it's your beat, you should know... :D

Actually, it was just average. Nothing special. I'm not trying for invade your kuleana auntie. No worry.

All I meant was that I was going Chinatown before I even knew you had a blog. So I no ack - I get small kine experience too.

[1stwahine]

If it's your beat, you should know... :D

Actually, it was just average. Nothing special. I'm not trying for invade your kuleana auntie. No worry.

All I meant was that I was going Chinatown before I even knew you had a blog. So I no ack - I get small kine experience too.

Mahalo for the clarification, Palolo Joe!

Auntie Lynn

[Miulang]

In light of the tragedy on the Gulf Coast, Hawai'i Civil Defense officials say they are prepared for everything...EXCEPT adequate shelter space for all residents.

"...The state's goal is to be able to provide shelter for 462,000 of Hawai'i's 1.25 million people — not including visitors — and it remains 124,000 short of that figure, said state Civil Defense chief Ed Teixeira. He said his agency is awaiting the release of $2 million over two years to retrofit buildings for shelter use, and that should cut the shortfall by roughly 20,000...."

If the entire island chain is overcome by a hurricane or tsunami, that means only about 1 out of every 3 people will be able to be housed in a shelter. Those who live near a public school will be the luckiest, because most of the schools have been retrofitted to withstand high wind.

"...The answer for residents statewide is to be as prepared as possible at home by having enough supplies available to survive without assistance for at least several days and to be prepared to provide your own safe shelter.

"I'd have every person develop a family disaster plan. I would encourage safe rooms, looking at our lack of shelter space all over the nation," said Clifford Ikeda, Civil Defense plans and operations officer on Kaua'i....

"...A safe room is a small structure within your home or on your property designed to keep you safe even if your house blows away. It should be built to withstand 250 mph winds and the impact of a 15-pound, 2-by-4 plank fired at 100 mph. Plans are available free of charge from the Federal Emergency Management Agency.

In hurricane-savvy Kaua'i County, a property tax break in the form of a $40,000 reduction in assessed value is available for homeowners with a safe room.

"Survival is each person's responsibility. I'm building one before I retire," Ikeda said...."

Miulang

[1stwahine]

Miulang, are there any inormation about lowrise aprtments such as MWH being able ti sustain a hurricane condiitions? We have three scools located near us but I think our buildings looked more stable than their cafeterias. Oh, by the way, good morning.

Lynn

[Miulang]

Miulang, are there any inormation about lowrise aprtments such as MWH being able ti sustain a hurricane condiitions? We have three scools located near us but I think our buildings looked more stable than their cafeterias. Oh, by the way, good morning.

Lynn

Good morning, Auntie. I don't know about MWH. It would depend on the materials that were used to construct it. If it's made of cement blocks it's probably safer than a wooden house. If it was me, I would contact the Oahu Civil Defense Dept (http://www.co.honolulu.hi.us/ocda/tsunami2.htm). and ask that question. Maybe have a representative come visit one of your community meetings for a question and answer session. Many of the residents (especially the ones who came from Micronesia) probably have lived through a tsunami or typhoon so they already know what it feels like. They probably just need to know what to do now that they live in Hawai'i.


Miulang

[Palolo Joe]

All those quotes came from an Advertiser (http://www.thehonoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050907/NEWS01/509070340/1001) story, by the way.

Auntie Lynn, here's the link (http://www.co.honolulu.hi.us/ocda/) for Oahu Civil Defense. Maybe there's an e-mail address you can write to in order to ask about MWH. Would also think someone in management over there is aware of the necessary evacuation prodcedures in place for residents.

[craigwatanabe]

Hawaii is not prepared for a full on Catagory 3 hurricane.

Most of our older homes are single-walled TnG redwood with no hurricane clips to keep the roofs on. In a typical 25-30 MPH tradewind day, the houses creak from the breeze. And thanks to the Outdoor circle, we'll have plenty of trees to saw thru once they're uprooted and thrown all over the place.

But thanks to the Outdoor Circle, some of our powerlines will be buried so the powerlines will only be shorted out instead of hanging from snapped poles.

Our water system will be destroyed as all it takes is a power outage to overflow our sewage system and we haven't allowed our residents to build catchment systems for water.

As for evacuation...where? Our convention center is made of glass, the NBC can only hold 7,000 people and both are at sea level.

Honolulu was so damned lucky when Iniki did a fateful left turn and made that bee line to Kauai. If you all remember it was headed straight for the shores of Waikiki, then faded a bit to the north then like an enraged bull, shifted and headed directly to Kauai and devastated it. Had it hit Oahu the damage would have been immeasurable especially with the newly built glass facade convention center. Our tourist industry would have been wiped out with the major hotels right in the gun sights of Iniki. Those living in the valley's (Koolau's) would have been hit with the direct wind damage from Iniki coming right up from the ocean, then from the massive flooding from the heavy rains funneled down from the mountain tops into the valley's center where everybody lives.

Those living on Kaimuki hill shadowed by Diamond Head would probably be the least affected.

The urban core of Honolulu would be devastated where the State's economic engine sits.

No we're not ready. Even after an event like Iniki hitting Waikiki is over, can you imagine the beaches fronting the hotels with their blown out glass windows? Tiny glass shards mixed in with the white sands of Waikiki. It would take a very long time before the beaches would be safe to walk on barefoot much less sunbathe on or have sex naked on at night :eek:

[Glen Miyashiro]

Tiny glass shards mixed in with the white sands of Waikiki. It would take a very long time before the beaches would be safe to walk on barefoot much less sunbathe on or have sex naked on at night :eek:Yeah, you'd have to go to Mokulē'ia for that. :rolleyes:

[Miulang]

I hope the new building codes on all the islands are taking into account weathering a class 3 hurricane like Iniki. Kauai has an advantage because all the new construction probably does require that kind of retrofitting and many of the houses are new construction. I'm still seeing a disaster of major proportions if a hurricane like Iniki did hit Honolulu and all those tourists are trapped in the high rises. Since there isn't going to be enough shelter space for the residents, nevermind the tourists, it's almost imperative that each resident have the emergency supplies and a weather-proof room somewhere in their home to retreat to in the event of a major hurricane. Historically speaking, Maui hasn't been subjected to as many hurricanes as the rest of the islands. Don't know why, though. Maui has had its share of destructive tsunamis.

Miulang

[Glen Miyashiro]

I do know that these days when you get a building permit in Honolulu for new construction, or even renovations, it has to pass some kind of hurricane-related review. I don't know how strong of a hurricane it's supposed to withstand, but there are new building codes in effect. Of course, that doesn't help with all the existing construction out there, that's not required to be reinforced.

[Miulang]

If you're really interested in the revised building codes (http://www.co.honolulu.hi.us/refs/roh/16a11.htm) for the City and County of Honolulu, here they are. I reviewed them briefly and there's a lot stuff related to water and wave damage as in a tsunami, but I don't see any reference to hurricane (wind) damage. Maybe that's part of the general building codes.

Miulang

[helen]

As for evacuation...where? Our convention center is made of glass, the NBC can only hold 7,000 people and both are at sea level.
The NBC is much futher inland than the convention center is and is away from the flood zone.

Had it hit Oahu the damage would have been immeasurable especially with the newly built glass facade convention center.
Sorry but the convention center wasn't even built during the time Iniki hit.

[Miulang]

The Oahu Civil Defense Agency (http://www.mothernature-hawaii.com/files/honolulu_planning-09.pdf) did put together a report after Iniki assessing the damage a hurricane might cause to Honolulu. Their estimate if a Category 3 hurricane hit Oahu: at least $5 billion in property damage.

A category 3 hurricane would have sustained winds of 111-131 mph with storm surges of approximately 9-12 feet. A chart in the report states that damage to buildings would be extensive: "extensive damage to houses and small buildings, weakly constructed and termite-weakened houses heavily damaged or destroyed; buildings made of light materials destroyed. Major damage to shrubbery and trees; up to 50% of palm fronds bent or blown off; numerous ripe and many green coconuts blown off coconut palms; crowns blown off coconut trees; up to 10% of coconut palms blown down; 30%-50% defoliation of many trees and shrubs. Large trees blown down. Many wooden power poles broken or blown down; many secondary power lines downed. Air is full of projectiles and debris; poorly constructed signs blown down. Serious coastal flooding; larger structures near coast damaged by battering waves and floating debris..."

In the assessment it appears that the major problem is going to be trying to get out of whatever shelter you might take post-hurricane because most of the foliage (including trees) would be uprooted and blown all over the place. So would wooden telephone and utility poles.

This is a truly fascinating report that pertains directly to people on Oahu. The report also says that the Hawaiian island chain is rarely hit directly by a hurricane but there can still be substantial damage from a tidal surge and moderate winds if the outer portion of the hurricane strikes a glancing blow at any of the islands.

Miulang

[D'Alani]

Miulang, are there any inormation about lowrise aprtments such as MWH being able ti sustain a hurricane condiitions? We have three scools located near us but I think our buildings looked more stable than their cafeterias. Oh, by the way, good morning.

Lynn
Aunty u no need worry, u in one of da sayfa buildings in Kalihi, even KPT mo sayf den most of da homes in Kalihi. Ova haf da homes in the Kalihi ova 50 years old so dey no mo chance. Us Kalihi guyz goin jus have to hope and pray das all.

As for the new Building Codes you know how the Building inspectors are...just the same as the Liquor inspectors. IMHO :D

[1stwahine]

Aunty u no need worry, u in one of da sayfa buildings in Kalihi, even KPT mo sayf den most of da homes in Kalihi. Ova haf da homes in the Kalihi ova 50 years old so dey no mo chance. Us Kalihi guyz goin jus have to hope and pray das all.

As for the new Building Codes you know how the Building inspectors are...just the same as the Liquor inspectors. IMHO :D
Wow! Das what everybody telling me too! I safe in my own hale. How you like dat? cheap rent. I'll put up with da Micro Dots...dey know how to cope with disasters too. they live off the land. I going be nicer. I going even turn my head when they sell cigarettes and fish now. Mayor Wrights Housing in Kalihi Rules! Nobody betta make fun again. As for Chinatown...one Hurricane going wipe um out, da rats, and druggies (including Mark)! Do I care? Nope!

[Miulang]

Wow! Das what everybody telling me too! I safe in my own hale. How you like dat? cheap rent. I'll put up with da Micro Dots...dey know how to cope with disasters too. they live off the land. I going be nicer. I going even turn my head when they sell cigarettes and fish now. Mayor Wrights Housing in Kalihi Rules! Nobody betta make fun again. As for Chinatown...one Hurricane going wipe um out, da rats, and druggies (including Mark)! Do I care? Nope!

Shhh! Tita! Don't tell too many people you have a house that's safe in a hurricane or you're going to find a lot of "best new friends" pounding on your door! :)

Miulang

[1stwahine]

Shhh! Tita! Don't tell too many people you have a house that's safe in a hurricane or you're going to find a lot of "best new friends" pounding on your door! :)

Miulang
Only Adrian and certain hawaii threads members! LOL

BYOS(bring yoou own supplies) BYOF(bring your own food) toilet paper, medications too!

[Palolo Joe]

Shhh! Don't tell too many people you have a house that's safe in a hurricane or you're going to find a lot of "best new friends" pounding on your door!
If I had a house that was safe during a hurricane and had a bunch of new best friends show up at my door, I would do my best to accomodate as many of them as possible. The more people out of harm's way, the better.

Maybe it's just one of the ways "we" Hawaii residents are unique...

[1stwahine]

If I had a house that was safe during a hurricane and had a bunch of new best friends show up at my door, I would do my best to accomodate as many of them as possible. The more people out of harm's way, the better.

Maybe it's just one of the ways "we" Hawaii residents are unique...
this HT feud is getting to be a bit sickining for me too! go play boxing some place else. palolo joe. us girls was just having fun. of course my hale would be open to anyone! ssssh!

aunty lynn

[helen]

Well you are safe from flooding due to the rise of the ocean from the hurricane. You are get some damage to the building from flying debris but since the building is made of concrete it should survive the high winds.

[Miulang]

Here's an interesting op-ed piece which appeared in today's Star Bulletin. It was written by John Toillion (http://starbulletin.com/2005/09/08/editorial/commentary.html), who used to work for the Army's disaster preparedness department.

His contention is, despite Mayor Harry Kim's claims that the Civil Defense programs in Hawai'i are 100% ready for the next hurricane, they are in fact not. He cites the critical lack of adequate shelter, particularly on Oahu (already discussed previously), lack of media on call after hours to handle emergency announcements, and the unwillingness of local officials to make quick decisions as the weak links in the preparedness strategy for the State of Hawai'i.

Miulang

[Miulang]

The UH has just been awarded a $500,000 NSF grant (http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050909/NEWS03/509090360/1001/NEWS) to study how to best warn local residents of impending tsunamis. Apparently, only a small percentage of residents understand what the monthly siren tests are for.

"...Bruce Houghton, a volcanologist with the UH School of Ocean and Earth Science and Technology, said those responsible for emergency management have "overrated" the public's preparedness and understanding of tsunamis.

"For example, during the tsunami that hit Hawai'i in 1960, researchers showed that only about 5 percent of those affected by the disaster in Hilo reacted appropriately to the official sirens used to alert the people although most connected the sirens to the idea that a tsunami was expected," Houghton said in a news release.

Public information about warnings has focused on supplying accurate information without considering how people interpret or use it, he said.

"It's scary, really, because there is a lot of assumption that we have the most successful system around," Houghton said. "But it has been so long since it has been really tested that we don't know what the public is going to do." ...

Miulang

[craigwatanabe]

The NBC is much futher inland than the convention center is and is away from the flood zone.

Sorry but the convention center wasn't even built during the time Iniki hit.

The NBC is at the same sea levelness as the rest of Ala Moana. It's all pretty much flat land from the concert hall to Ala Moana BLVD. A Class-3 hurricane would do significant flood damage to the area. Since with the UFO design of the arena, I'd think the buggah would take off like one with a direct hit from a hurricane. :D The Exhibition Hall has no provisions to ward off any floodwaters lapping at it's entrances so that area would be flooded as well.


Iniki was in 1992 wasn't it? Hmmmm I thought the CC was built then but even though, if a Hurricane did hit Oahu the Convention Center's facade would be a reduced to a pile of glass shards everywhere.

Anway the way buildings are being built in Honolulu there's a lot of glass windows that offer absolutely no protection from the impact of a major Hurricane like Katrina. How do you shutter all those glass panes from the likes of the Hawaiki or the FHB towers?

If the likes of Katrina were to hit Honolulu, where would you house thousands of people displaced under roof? I'm thinking the major parking garages in and around Downtown Honolulu and Waikiki.

We wouldn't have to worry about sustained flooding like New Orleans however Oahu Civil Defense did recommend at one time (I'm not sure if they still recommend it) that if you are in an inundation zone and in a high rise, it's best to stay put but go up above three-floors in the event of a tsunami. Now for a hurricane? Hmmm maybe some of the surviving WWII concrete reinforced bunkers located high above sea level in the Koolau's may be a good place to sit it out.

I'm still not sure where to go if a Class-3 or higher hurricane were to directly hit Oahu. The War Museum in Waikiki is a great place to be in when one hits but since it's at sea level I'm sure the waves would flood it out. Then there's the bunkers in Diamond Head but they're all locked up. I wouldn't stay in the Valleys as the wind would only intensify in those funnel like locations. The ridges are windy to begin with and probably even more dangerous during a hurricane.

Too bad the Alexander Young Building was torn down. That solid Granite building was listed as a Nuclear Fallout shelter.

[Miulang]

If what Mufi said is true, that the communication system (http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050910/NEWS04/509100336) for Oahu that would be used in an emergency is in horrible repair and needs to be upgraded, does he really think the voters are in any mood to willingly part with more of their hard-earned money?Or maybe this is one of those "pay now or pay more later" deals.

"...A crumbling system of radio communication towers that will cost $25 million to repair heads a list of problems with Honolulu's outdated and poorly maintained emergency preparedness system, the mayor said yesterday.

O'ahu's emergency communications equipment — a critical link after any disaster — needs major repairs because it has been poorly maintained over the years, said Mayor Mufi Hannemann.

"These tower sites — and there are 24 of them — are so decrepit that high winds could topple them, seriously impairing emergency communications," he said.

Overall, Hannemann said, he thinks the city is ready to respond to an emergency but must remain vigilant in updating plans...."

Miulang

[Miulang]

I wonder how much a civilian version of one of these mobile communication units (M2C2) (http://www.thehawaiichannel.com/news/4951306/detail.html) which had some of its technology developed in Hawai'i would cost? If Honolulu could buy some of these, the County probably wouldn't have to spend the estimated $25 million it's going to cost to repair those radio towers that are in dire need of repair.

"...Officials unveiled the Mobile Modular Communications Center (M2C2) at Bellows Air Force Station. The Humvee is a field communications and command center.

It's equipped with radios, communication computers and satellite linkups. It does the same job it takes nine vehicles to do right now.

Since it's a one-stop shop, it can get to where it's needed, such as the region devastated by Hurricane Katrina, sooner than anything else out there right now.

"We could virtually get up, communicate, provide command and control in literally minutes to as short as an hour," Marines Sgt. Mark Clemmons said.

That's opposed to days.

What is more impressive is that it can do its job while moving. Other vehicles can't do that now..."

Miulang

[helen]

It may cost more to fix the towers but in the long run it's the right thing to do since the towers can be used all the time without using people to operate it and in this case to drive it around. I am not against the idea of the city and county buying a couple of these vehicles for just in case. Right now they are earmarking the money to fix the towers while these vehicles are not available yet.

[craigwatanabe]

One thing about radio communications that our local government doesn't have to worry about is our amateur radio guys out there. They have their own network of operators and repeaters this is well organized and maintained and are always on the ready when it comes to support communications. Oahu Civil Defense works with these groups with simulations in the event the phone system shuts down due to some kind of natural disaster.

[Miulang]

Kauai has endured more serious hurricanes than just about any other island in the 'aina. Hearing what they learned about their ability to survive is one good way to assess how ready each person anywhere (http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050911/NEWS01/509110343/1001) in this country will be able to survive a natural disaster. One overwhelming conclusion is that if communications cannot be restored in a timely manner, it could result in mass chaos (as also seen in the Gulf States). The other sad conclusion is that each and every person has to be responsible for his/her own personal survival for at least 3-4 days before any government assistance might be available.

What I plan to do personally, besides having my own stash of survival gear and food and water is to also make sure everyone in my condo development (44 units) knows what they need to do in the aftermath of an earthquake (about the only natural disaster that we would be prone to). I'm taking on that responsibility because I'm a member of the association's Board of Directors. We have quite a few elderly people living in this building, and I worry that they might not be as prepared as the younger folks. I don't want to be another Michael Brown. :eek:

Miulang

[Palolo Joe]

The other sad conclusion is that each and every person has to be responsible for his/her own personal survival for at least 3-4 days before any government assistance might be available.
Which isn't anything new. Past hurricanes both here and on the mainland taught us a long time ago that we need to be ready for a couple of days on our own.

The bigger issue is making sure all Hawaii residents are prepared for the next hurricane. Most of them know what they should be doing, but that doesn't translate into going out and getting the necessary items in order to actually be prepared.

[pzarquon]

Most of them know what they should be doing, but that doesn't translate into going out and getting the necessary items in order to actually be prepared.Sure we do. We just do it the night before the storm makes landfall, swamping Longs and practically coming to blows at the toilet paper display.

[Miulang]

Sure we do. We just do it the night before the storm makes landfall, swamping Longs and practically coming to blows at the toilet paper display.

But Ryan, wouldn't it be more reassuring to know with confidence that you have all your emergency stuff ready to go instead of being one of those "stream of consciousness" procrastinators who has to swamp Longs and fight for the toilet paper, cans of Spam and rice, or wait in long lines at the gas station immediately before the event? Or maybe people feel that way because you probably would get advance warning of most natural disasters that might befall Hawai'i (except maybe for a tremendous undersea earthquake near Hawai'i which triggers a tsunami, like in Asia last year), so you would have time to meander out for supplies.

The major disaster we have to worry about up here is earthquakes, and we don't get any warning when those might hit, so we have to be prepared ahead of time.

Miulang

[Palolo Joe]

Calm down... I think he simply forgot the obligatory "just kidding" emoticon.

[helen]

Certain things have a shelf life, like batteries. So when the hurricane season starts, stock up, when it ends, use them. Same thing could be said for the canned goods and bottled water.

[craigwatanabe]

Just be like me...I plan on two major camping trips every year so I normally stock up on canned goods and camping gear for a week of roughing it.

If a hurricane hits at least I have my gear for me and my family to survive on. Two essentials I have in my camping gear is my Coleman double burner propane stove and my Coleman double mantle propane lantern.

Keep powdered milk in the pantry to keep the kids happy with their Captain Crunch cereal while the world blows up around you.

Instead of batteries for a radio (that may not pick up a radio station downed from lack of electricity), I keep a hand-crank radio/flashlight handy.

But if you do some major camping, you're halfway prepared with the hardware needed to survive the after effects of a natural disaster. In my pantry I have those extra large ziplock bags that can hold pillows in them. If you gotta grab and run because a tsunami is bearing down on your home, these bags are essential to throwing stuff in and running like hell.

[Glen Miyashiro]

I read somewhere that Mormons are expected by their church to keep a large stock of food and water. Is this true? I heard it was in preparation for the End Times, or maybe it's a holdover from the 19th century frontier days, but whatever the reason, it's still a good idea in case of a hurricane too.

Edit: I guess I read it right (http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll/Magazines/Ensign/1989.htm/ensign%20june%201989.htm/home%20storage%20build%20on%20the%20basics.htm):

“We continue to encourage members to store sufficient food, clothing, and where possible fuel for at least one year."

[craigwatanabe]

I read somewhere that Mormons are expected by their church to keep a large stock of food and water. Is this true? I heard it was in preparation for the End Times, or maybe it's a holdover from the 19th century frontier days, but whatever the reason, it's still a good idea in case of a hurricane too.


Hey Glen are you telling us it's a good idea to be Mormons in the wake of a hurricane? :D At least we won't have to worry about rising gas prices because we'll have our trusty Schwinn's to bike around in.

One thing about being in an area with no county waterlines is that I have about 10,000 gallons of water and proper filtering in my my catchment tanks.

As for large stock of food, yeah my pantry is always stocked to the gills because I have such a large family (lots of kids).

I guess I'm ready...not a Mormon...maybe I better check it out on sound advice from you :D

[Miulang]

Regarding Mormons and their teaching that they need to be prepared for the Apocalypse (and any "minor" devastation between now and then)...

Up in Idaho (there are a lot of LDS up there), when the Salmon River overflowed and broke through dams and flooded towns in the 1980's, the Mormons were the only ones who had enough food and water stocked up to live decently through the rebuilding of their towns. They even had enough that they were able to share with their non-LDS neighbors.

Some of their secular beliefs do boggle the mind, but in the case of disaster preparedness, we can all learn from them. And they're not as crazy as them thar survivalists, who basically do the same thing with storing up large quantities of food and water, in preparation for the times when the ATF agents will try to storm their compounds. :eek:
Miulang

[craigwatanabe]

Sounds a bit Wako (as in Texas) to me. :D

[Miulang]

Sounds a bit Wako (as in Texas) to me. :D
Eh Craig, when you were stationed at Mountain Home, weren't there a lot of townies who were members of the LDS church? I know the word "town" is relative in this case :p ...how many buildings did the town center have? Everytime we drove past there on the interstate, it looked like Mountain Home, ID was one lonely little diner up on a hill...

Miulang

[craigwatanabe]

Yeah that diner was a truck stop that served up some of the greasiest eggs on the planet and boy were they fabulous (even with soda...Hi Helen)

But the interstate you went on cut thru the back side of Mountain home after passing the diner so you never saw the town itself, just the backside of the homes in the outer sector of that small town. Had you took the off ramp to the town you'd have passed Radio Shack and a Red Barn restaurant before entering the town itself.

Mountain Home was a very small town. It had one barber shop. As a matter of fact one day I was sitting on the bench outside the barber shop on the sidewalk talking to the town Sheriff about Bass fishing!

Watch an old episode of Mayberry RFD and you'll get a good idea of what Mountain Home is like. That town was so boring the biggest thing to do on a Friday evening was to go to Safeway and challenge anyone hanging around the Asteroids video game next to the exit for the evening's high score. I got so bored I joined the Mountain Home Sagebrush Shufflers, doing a lot of round dancing (similar to square dancing) and took up macramae (true story).

We did have a fairly decent LDS crowd there but that group was more north than Mountain Home. We did have a lot of Arian Nation skinheads which made my stay there a very memorable one...they hated everyone but themselves. I had to knock some sense in some of them once or twice a month or so. I would tell them, "Hey we were on the same side during WWII dammit!"