20th Century Hawai'i

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Sounds a bit Pua'i-Come-Lately, eh?

This is my (ahem) shout-out to all da peepz ('o ia ho'i 'o Glen et.al.) to wax on wich-yo-bad-selves about that sexy century that happened last millenium ago!

Anyway care to discuss? Shall we do a timeline in review to kick-off, and then pick on the tangents as they puka, or....whatchawannado?

Glen, this bud'z for u, babe! ;)

[Miulang]

Sounds a bit Pua'i-Come-Lately, eh?

This is my (ahem) shout-out to all da peepz ('o ia ho'i 'o Glen et.al.) to wax on wich-yo-bad-selves about that sexy century that happened last millenium ago!

Anyway care to discuss? Shall we do a timeline in review to kick-off, and then pick on the tangents as they puka, or....whatchawannado?

Glen, this bud'z for u, babe! ;)

Why don't you start when Kamehameha I united the islands? Talk about the Great Mahele and all that...that would start the timeline at a period just prior to the influx of da missionaries.

Thnks
Miulang

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Why don't you start when Kamehameha I united the islands? Talk about the Great Mahele and all that...that would start the timeline at a period just prior to the influx of da missionaries.

Thnks
Miulang

that would be under the "19th Century Hawai'i" thread. :p

[Palolo Joe]

20th Century: 1900-1999.

[Miulang]

that would be under the "19th Century Hawai'i" thread. :p

True, but why quibble about a hundred years? :p Seriously, to understand why things are the way they are today, I think you do have to go back in time to when Kamehameha I united the islands.

Miulang

[Pua'i Mana'o]

True, but why quibble about a hundred years? :p Seriously, to understand why things are the way they are today, I think you do have to go back in time to when Kamehameha I united the islands.

Miulang


**throws hands in air**

this is such a slippery slope!

</wail>

First came Kumuhana. 23 generations later, there was Wakea and Papahanaumoku, who birthed the eight isles (there is some paternity issues with respect to O'ahu, and Wakea, if I might be generation-centric and call him a dog for sleeping with his daughter, had two outside kids, aka Lana'ika'ula and Moloka'i, but that is a whooole 'nuther thread). Then, via that same daughter, they birthed the two boys, each named Haloa, the former being a miscarriage who was planted and became the first taro, and the latter becoming the first man.

175+ generations later, we arrive at the 20th century...

[Glen Miyashiro]

Mahalo for starting this thread, Pua‘i!

I like the timeline idea. Here's a quick-n-dirty one for starters. I know I'm missing a lot of important things. Please add, correct, or expand as needed:

1900 Territory of Hawai‘i granted self-governance.

1924 Gentlemen's Agreement closes Japanese immigration to Hawai‘i.

1941 Attack on Pearl Harbor - beginning of WWII.

1954 Democratic Party sweeps the State Legislature.

1959 Hawai‘i admitted to the USA as a state.

1978 Hawai‘i Constitutional Convention.

1993 Centennial memorial of the overthrow of the Hawaiian Kingdom. US Congress passes a resolution apologizing for the overthrow.

[Palolo Joe]

**throws hands in air**

this is such a slippery slope!

</wail>
You'll find yourself doing that pretty often if you always go with Miulang's sense of logic.

Pua'i, weren't you the one that said you were interested in early 20th century Hawaii specifically? Here's a question - were the Hawaiian people in a better place at midnight on Jan. 1, 1900 than they were at midnight on Jan. 1, 1800?

[Miulang]

Pua'i, weren't you the one that said you were interested in early 20th century Hawaii specifically? Here's a question - were the Hawaiian people in a better place at midnight on Jan. 1, 1900 than they were at midnight on Jan. 1, 1800?

I wanna know how the immigrant population, beginning pre-1900 affected the islands, because many of our great grandparents and great-great grandparents were part of that wave of immigrants.

Miulang

[Palolo Joe]

I wanna know how the immigrant population, beginning pre-1900 affected the islands, because many of our great grandparents and great-great grandparents were part of that wave of immigrants.
Good for you. Stating the obvious once again, though - of course our great and great-great grandparents were part of that wave of immigrants.

But what does that have to do with the question I posed to Pua'i, which you quoted in your post?

[Pua'i Mana'o]

You'll find yourself doing that pretty often if you always go with Miulang's sense of logic.

Pua'i, weren't you the one that said you were interested in early (PJ means 19th century) Hawaii specifically? Here's a question - were the Hawaiian people in a better place at midnight on Jan. 1, 1900 than they were at midnight on Jan. 1, 1800?

oooOOOooo!!!!

I want to answer this through the lens of an economist (although I am not one in real life, I play one on the internet):

No. And yeah.

No:
-population decimation. A century should have five generations of people, and some sort of living equation where x=birthrate y=life expectancy and z=other factoring stuff. I have seen estimates that Hawaiians numbered over 500,000 across the isles in 1800, but dwindled to 40K by 1900. No matter how many other cool things happened in 100 years, those numbers SUCK. I am not laying blame (we know disease was the culprit) but sucking death is the sum of this equation. This factor, imo, is the #1 consideration we should look upon when concerning ourselves with 19th century Hawaii discussions.

And, for the fun stuff, Yeah:
-Hawaii, in hindsight, was quite progressive....hang on, I will be back later to add to this, so let me ping myself here...

[Glen Miyashiro]

Pua'i, weren't you the one that said you were interested in early 20th century Hawaii specifically? Here's a question - were the Hawaiian people in a better place at midnight on Jan. 1, 1900 than they were at midnight on Jan. 1, 1800?That was me actually.

In 1800, the people of Hawai‘i were being ravaged by foreign diseases. Entire villages were vanishing. Kamehameha had conquered (or was he still in the process of conquering) all the islands, except Kaua‘i, and ruled with an iron fist.

In 1900, the old diseases had mostly run their course but new ones were just as dangerous. Lepers were shipped off to Kalaupapa. The government burned Honolulu's Chinatown to the ground in 1900 due to a bubonic plague outbreak.

Was it better? Hard to say. Different, yes.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

That was me actually.

In 1800, the people of Hawai‘i were being ravaged by foreign diseases. Entire villages were vanishing. Kamehameha had conquered (or was he still in the process of conquering) all the islands, except Kaua‘i, and ruled with an iron fist.

In 1900, the old diseases had mostly run their course but new ones were just as dangerous. Lepers were shipped off to Kalaupapa. The government burned Honolulu's Chinatown to the ground in 1900 due to a bubonic plague outbreak.

Was it better? Hard to say. Different, yes.


A more provacative question is: which century was better for the Hawaiian people? The 19th or 20th?

[Pua'i Mana'o]

not to dive off course too much but, how does a thread (such as this one :D ) earn stars and stuff?

[Glen Miyashiro]

A more provacative question is: which century was better for the Hawaiian people? The 19th or 20th?And an even more provocative question is, which Hawaiian people do you mean? The commoners, or the ali‘i? I think that many people, when thinking about old Hawai‘i, forget that Hawaiians were not a monolithic group who all thought and acted the same.

Later:
And what ever happened to those ali‘i families, anyway? Some of them intermarried with the haole missionaries and businessmen, and maintained their positions of wealth and power -- for example the Kawānanakoa family, who are Campbell Estate beneficiaries and are worth uku-pile bucks. Are they still among the movers and shakers of the islands?

[Glen Miyashiro]

not to dive off course too much but, how does a thread (such as this one :D ) earn stars and stuff?Check out the top bar where it says "Rate Thread". Also, try clicking on the little scales icon next to each individual post.

[Palolo Joe]

And an even more provocative question is, which Hawaiian people do you mean? The commoners, or the ali‘i? I think that many people, when thinking about old Hawai‘i, forget that Hawaiians were not a monolithic group who all thought and acted the same.
Yeah, that's a good point. And there's not only the kanaka maoli, but there were also the immigrants and the missionary haoles. Whatever your feelings towards each group, they were all part of the overall dynamic in Hawaii at that time.

*edit* Oh, and sorry Glen. I knew it was either you or Pua'i that brought up the 20th century thing... guess I was just too lazy to go look it up myself. :cool:

[Glen Miyashiro]

How about a bibliography? I'll start:

Land and Power in Hawaii, by Gavan Daws and George Cooper. Dry as hell, but so meaty. I need to go and re-read the chapter on Salt Lake.

Shoal of Time: A History of the Hawaiian Islands, by Gavan Daws. Good for the earlier period.

Catch a Wave: A Case Study of Hawaii's New Politics, by Tom Coffman.

[Miulang]

How about a bibliography? I'll start:

Land and Power in Hawaii, by Gavan Daws and George Cooper. Dry as hell, but so meaty. I need to go and re-read the chapter on Salt Lake.

Shoal of Time: A History of the Hawaiian Islands, by Gavan Daws. Good for the earlier period.
Shoal of Time is an excellent book. So is Kahana: How the Land was Lost by Robert Stauffer that covers the period from 1846-1920 and is mostly about the homestead land called Kahana and goes into some detail about the Great Mahele of 1846-1855.

Miulang

[Glen Miyashiro]

Here's an interesting reference from the UH that I just found:

The Annexation Of Hawaii: A Collection Of Documents
http://libweb.hawaii.edu/digicoll/annexation/annexation.html

It's a collection of scanned-in historical documents from the time of the annexation and thereafter. Enjoy!

[Palolo Joe]

I wonder if those documents were lost in the recent flooding...

[Jonah K]

And an even more provocative question is, which Hawaiian people do you mean? The commoners, or the ali‘i? I think that many people, when thinking about old Hawai‘i, forget that Hawaiians were not a monolithic group who all thought and acted the same.

Later:
And what ever happened to those ali‘i families, anyway? Some of them intermarried with the haole missionaries and businessmen, and maintained their positions of wealth and power -- for example the Kawānanakoa family, who are Campbell Estate beneficiaries and are worth uku-pile bucks. Are they still among the movers and shakers of the islands?
Well, Auntie Kekau spends most of her time in California, but she occasionally appears in Hawai'i and raises a stink about Hawaiian burial artifacts. Cousin Q made an aborted run for Abercrombie's seat in the U.S. House of Representatives back in 1998, and he's currently serving as one of the O'ahu reps on the DHHL's Hawaiian Homes Commission. Uncle Dudie passed away in 1997 and his sister, Auntie Po'omai passed away in 1998. Auntie Kapi is still around though, here's a picture of her and Cousin Dave (the haole-looking folks seated to the right of Vicky and Ben Cayetano), attending some function a few years back....

http://www.urasenke.or.jp/texte/world/e_hawaii50/image/hawaii01_20_02.jpg


Other members of the Kawānanakoa family are leading rather quiet lives, contributing to charities, raising kids, surfing the internet, and stuff li' dat. ;)

Jonah K

[Glen Miyashiro]

So that's what the K in Jonah K means. :D Thanks for the very knowledgeable update on the clan!

[Palolo Joe]

Other members of the Kawa¯nanakoa family are leading rather quiet lives, contributing to charities, raising kids, surfing the internet, and stuff li' dat.
Which is actually pretty interesting. The money is the only real distinction, otherwise these descendants of alii ended up leading much the same lives as those of the makaainana during the later part of the 20th century.

[Glen Miyashiro]

I have a feeling that 20th Century Hawaiian history is sometimes a little bit too close to the present to make for objective discussions of controversial topics. I mean, look at Thurston Twigg-Smith, still fighting his grandfather's battles! :rolleyes:

[Jonah K]

So that's what the K in Jonah K means. :D Thanks for the very knowledgeable update on the clan!
I'm surprised that someone didn't figure out where the "Jonah" came from sooner. ;)

http://www.aloha-hawaii.com/assets/images/articles/273_main_1.jpg
Jonah Kuhio Kalaniana'ole

[Glen Miyashiro]

And speaking again of the Kawānanakoa family, the Star-Bulletin ran an article (http://starbulletin.com/2005/09/11/news/story1.html) about a woman, apparently not completely there upstairs, who keeps on claiming to be Abigail Kawānanakoa although nobody except her thinks she is. I guess identity theft doesn't always work. :rolleyes:

[Jonah K]

And speaking again of the Kawānanakoa family, the Star-Bulletin ran an article (http://starbulletin.com/2005/09/11/news/story1.html) about a woman, apparently not completely there upstairs, who keeps on claiming to be Abigail Kawānanakoa although nobody except her thinks she is. I guess identity theft doesn't always work. :rolleyes:
I saw that article as well. ;) "Charlotte" (or whatever she's calling herself these days) has been a bit of a thorn in Kekau's side for years.
http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2004/Apr/27/ln/ln03a.html

The ultimate question is which accountant miscalculated Kekau's estimated tax payments so that the IRS ended up issuing a $2.1 million tax refund check in the first place? :eek:

Now if "Charlotte" were more like "Amelia Ku'ulei Gora".... :rolleyes:
http://www.middleeast.org/forum/fb-public/1/4016.shtml

Cheers,

Jonah K

[AlbertKim]

Waikiki from 1931 vs 1970

http://www.downwindproductions.com/tours/then_now/1931_1970.html

[Glen Miyashiro]

From another thread (http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showthread.php?t=6634):

The truth to that statement is a sad one...but all too true. If more Hawaiians became college graduate literate that statement would be a false one. Hawaiians need to pull together and like I said before like a broken record: form a chamber of commerce, form an ag cooperative, get more Kanaka Maoli in local and national government.

By placing themselves in the political and commerce powerseats, they control their destiny. How do you do it? Play the white man's game and beat them at their own rules!

If Hawaiians became the dominant leaders by virtue of their education, oh man this state would be such a different place than how it is now! You know, it used to be that way. Back in the pre-WWII days, before the Japanese came to power, the government of Hawai‘i was run by Hawaiians and haoles. Yes that's right, your typical state or county worker a hundred years ago was a Hawaiian guy, not a Japanese.

What happened?