The Word "Breed"

[Sindahrella808]

This was posted today by MadAzza in "Those Hawaiians...Those Mainlanders...while discussing the decline of Pure Hawaiians. I personally am highly offended by this and wonder if anyone else feels the same......

And whose "fault" is that?

Is someone forcing all those Hawaiians and part-Hawaiians to breed with other part-Hawaiians and non-Hawaiians?

If full-blooded Hawaiians don't have a big hangup about keeping it "pure," why should anyone else? "Hawaiian" is supposedly more about culture than about race, anyway. Or so it was under the kingdom ... which, granted, was only a small fraction of "Hawaiian" history ... oh, but I digress.

[MadAzza]

My Goodness, dear heart, you are so predictable!

Here's a shovel. Please carry on.

(perhaps I should have offered a Midol ...)

[Sindahrella808]

You said it is a perfectly acceptable term..I don't think it is and I am interested in knowing what others think..honestly I am shocked you actually had the nerve to say "Breed"...

[kimo55]

breed breed breed breed.

breed breed.

breed breed breed native breed.

natives breeding.

Natives breeding natively.

breeding more natives.

lots of heaving sweating bratives needing.

[MadAzza]

Kimo! I'm shocked!

Shocked!

How dare you use unapproved words??

I am offended by your use of the word "sweating."

[scrivener]

I can certainly understand your offense, but sometimes a word is just a word and it doesn't necessarily betray any kind of ill-will or negative prejudice. It doesn't sound to me as if MadAzza considers Hawaiians animals, either in the context provided or in her other posts on HT. You definitely have a right to bristle at such usage; however, MadAzza has a right to use a mostly innocuous word. This doesn't look like the stuff of flame wars to me. It looks like "hey, that word offends me," "okay, sorry."

[Sindahrella808]

breed breed breed breed.

breed breed.

breed breed breed native breed.

natives breeding.

Natives breeding natively.

breeding more natives.

lots of heaving sweating bratives needing.


That does not shock me.....sadly

[kimo55]

that does not shock you sadly?
How does it shock you; gladly? madly? badly?

[Sindahrella808]

Is that the best you got?

[MadAzza]

This doesn't look like the stuff of flame wars to me. It looks like "hey, that word offends me," "okay, sorry."

Yeah, you're right, except the part about apologizing for something that is a matter of opinion. I won't apologize because someone else chooses to be offended about something I wrote, unless it's something actually ... well, offensive. However, I should've just walked away. So I will now, with good humor intact.

[Sindahrella808]

I can certainly understand your offense, but sometimes a word is just a word and it doesn't necessarily betray any kind of ill-will or negative prejudice. .

I agree that "sometimes" it does not betray ill-will, in this case however, in her own words..."breed", "Those Hawaiian's", etc..I think it is purely a case of cultural insensitivity from a Haole girl who is using terms and references straight out of the KKK Manual.

[Menehune Man]

If full-blooded Hawaiians don't have a big hangup about keeping it "pure," why should anyone else?[/I]

I agree. My wife is full-blooded Fijian and at this time most Fijians are. They are intermarrying as the opportunities arise. Bottom line... no matter what distinctions we decide to use, be it race, nationality, economic status, or... we truly are just human beings from planet earth. Example: my daughter is 1/16th Hawaiian, but is more Portuguese and German than that. She is who she is because of who "she" is not because of anyone's bloodline.

[Sindahrella808]

I agree. My wife is full-blooded Fijian and at this time most Fijians are. They are intermarrying as the opportunities arise. Bottom line... no matter what distinctions we decide to use, be it race, nationality, economic status, or... we truly are just human beings from planet earth. Example: my daughter is 1/16th Hawaiian, but is more Portuguese and German than that. She is who she is because of who "she" is not because of anyone's bloodline.


That was NOT my quote you quoted..so you are not agreeing with me...I do not agree with that statement in any way

[kimo55]

Alert! Alert!
Godwin's Law Invoked!


Invoking Godwin's Law has two effects

The thread is finished
The individual who made the comparison to Hitler or the Nazis OR the KKK "loses".

[Sindahrella808]

You just aren't interesting anymore...are you ever NOT sarcastic? Your not so funny small talk is boring, unintelligent and of no value whatsoever.

[kimo55]

I love you too, Sindy.

[Sindahrella808]

I know you do

[Glen Miyashiro]

This was posted today by MadAzza in "Those Hawaiians...Those Mainlanders...while discussing the decline of Pure Hawaiians. I personally am highly offended by this and wonder if anyone else feels the same......

And whose "fault" is that?

Is someone forcing all those Hawaiians and part-Hawaiians to breed with other part-Hawaiians and non-Hawaiians?

If full-blooded Hawaiians don't have a big hangup about keeping it "pure," why should anyone else? "Hawaiian" is supposedly more about culture than about race, anyway. Or so it was under the kingdom ... which, granted, was only a small fraction of "Hawaiian" history ... oh, but I digress.I wasn't offended. "Breed" is just a word. It can be used negatively (as in "half-breed") or positively ("someone of good breeding").

Perhaps you could moderate your tone, before it gets moderated for you. We recently have had a few offensive users get themselves kicked off the HT forums because they couldn't stay civil, and I hope you won't be another.

[Sindahrella808]

And...if voicing my opinion gets me kicked off..so be it

[Sindahrella808]

So if it can be used negatively or positively, in this case you think that it was positive?? half-breed, breed, aren't they both negative? The context was a relationship/having children...breed is not appropriate...

[Glen Miyashiro]

So if it can be ued negatively or positively, in this case you think that it was positive?? half-breed, breed, aren't they both negative?*sigh* In the case of what Madazza said, I think it was used neutrally. Not everything has to be positive or negative, black or white. If it did, then we'd be complaining over whether "haole" is derogatory or not all the time, too.

[Glen Miyashiro]

And...if voicing my opinion gets me kicked off..so be itOK. Not every discussion forum is right for every person, just like how in real life not every party is one you'd want to attend. Make your own choices on who you want to talk to and where you want to hang out.

[Sindahrella808]

I respecfully disagree. I think she is culturally insensitive and that the remark was offensive. Breed as a verb is reserved for animals.

[kimo55]

Merriam-Webster tends to differ with you, Sindy.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

I respecfully disagree. I think she is culturally insensitive and that the remark was offensive. Breed as a verb is reserved for animals.

Sindahrella, I am really trying to wrap my brain around this. I get it that it offends you, but it doesn't stretch into offensive for me, anymore (for example) than reading stuff about Hawaiians arriving in Hawai'i before other peoples came. This is a great example, because when I read that, I know that if I get absolutely conscious about it, anything about staking our claim to the isles because we are descended from the "first voyagers" is rooted in alien thinking. If use Hawaiian thinking, then we follow our genealogy and we didn't "arrive" here. Other ancestors of ours arrived here and bred in. But the isles are our brothers, descended from the same Papa and Wakea as did Haloa the taro and Haloa our ancestor.

You know what I mean? Now if I tried to fight every single battle with others on how to empower our points of view, I believe people would see me for only my neurotic tendencies. It would impede communication, and I don't need to BE right, even if I "am" right, you know? I would rather meet them halfway and then work on it naturally and over time.

[Sindahrella808]

NO, old Webster?? Well that's nothing new...history and the negative use of the word in reference to creating children, do agree with me and that's where I have the issue..the original meaning of a word..and it's evolution into a negative term are two different things. In the context of MadAzza's post it was used as a verb which historically, especially during the civil rights era was used negatively. It's just tacky and insensitive to use that term these days..

[Sindahrella808]

Sindahrella, I am really trying to wrap my brain around this. I get it that it offends you, but it doesn't stretch into offensive for me,

We can agree to disagree. Marriage would have been just as easy to type.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

We can agree to disagree. Marriage would have been just as easy to type.

yeah, but then we would be quibbling over the western construct of marriage, and about the very real percentages of our ancestral women who had hapa babies because of rape...or us yelling from the rooftops "yeah! Well we were all pure Hawaiian until we had the Hawaiian f*cked out of us because of those savage whaler immigrant types"....but that sort of talk makes my nose bleed.

its time for me to hiamoe.

[Leo Lakio]

I personally am highly offended by this and wonder if anyone else feels the same.
By any chance, you ever meet someone by the name of KahalaBrah?
(This is a reference for other posters to understand, btw.) :cool:

[pzarquon]

Let's not go there. We're better than that.

Seems to me that after a flare up, this debate about the appropriateness of "breed" has cooled. Unless there's anything new to add, let's drop it.

[LikaNui]

I think it is purely a case of cultural insensitivity from a Haole girl who is using terms and references straight out of the KKK Manual. Gee, and you thought she was offensive?!?
:mad:
You began this by making the proverbial mountain out of a molehill, and from what I've seen so far your own comments are what are offensive.

[Menehune Man]

Maybe it's Kahalabrah reincarnated! :eek:

[Leo Lakio]

Let's not go there. We're better than that.
Sorry. I took an easy potshot.
Eating Pop-Tarts at work probably isn't the best thing for my judgement.

[kimo55]

bottom line. the intelligent observer can either join in the conversation and read what the writer is saying by the collection and assemblage of words, and respond accordingly, or an observer can be manini and pick apart individual words.
So, for the record, This individual word is defined thusly:


Inflected Form(s): bred /'bred/; breed·ing
Etymology: Middle English breden, from Old English brEdan; akin to Old English: brood: a group having a common nature or origin


* To beget, produce or engender.
* To produce offspring. give birth to.
* To bring about; engender: “Admission of guilt tends to breed public sympathy” (Jonathan Alter).
* To cause to reproduce, especially by controlled mating and selection.
* To develop new or improved strains in (organisms), chiefly through controlled mating and selection of offspring for desirable traits.
* To inseminate or impregnate; mate with.
* To rear or train; bring up: a writer who was bred in a seafaring culture.
* To be the place of origin of: Austria breeds great skiers.
* To produce (fissionable material) in a breeder reactor.
* To produce offspring.
* To copulate; mate.
* To originate and develop: Mischief breeds in bored minds.
* A group of organisms having common ancestors and certain distinguishable characteristics, especially a group within a species developed by artificial selection and maintained by controlled propagation.
* A kind; a sort: a new breed of politician; a new breed of computer.
* to produce (offspring) by hatching or gestation
* BRING UP, NURTURE <born and bred in the country> b : to inculcate by training <breed good manners into one's children>
* MATE. to mate with : INSEMINATE - IMPREGNATE
* to produce offspring by sexual union
* COPULATE, MATE
* A commonly used, innocuous term meaning 'to propagate', but containing the seeds of dissention and the capacity to inflame, (through no fault of its own) for those that prefer to split hairs and argue rather than share mana'o and learn...
* a number of persons of the same stock

[Leo Lakio]

I think what has happened here, Sindahrella808, is that you stated that you are offended by the use of the word in this context. Fair enough - people may disagree with the reasons you are offended, but for the most part, we accept that you are offended.

You asked if others felt the same way. Most people who responded said (in one way or another) "no" - they do not feel the same way.

Then you began attacking posters who did not feel, for whatever personal reasons, offended in the same way as you. If you ask people for their opinion on a topic, be prepared for people to disagree with you, and don't start flaming them for holding a different viewpoint than yours; that's disrespectful --- and offensive.

[Peshkwe]

Soooooo....given your feelings on word usage:

So if it can be used negatively or positively, in this case you think that it was positive?? half-breed, breed, aren't they both negative? The context was a relationship/having children...breed is not appropriate...


How's the word 'haole' used here? Is it used discriptively to indicate

A) Someone not born to Hawaii?

B) MadAzza's melenin content?

D) Contempt with that unspoken (but present) 'F'en' in front?


I agree that "sometimes" it does not betray ill-will, in this case however, in her own words..."breed", "Those Hawaiian's", etc..I think it is purely a case of cultural insensitivity from a Haole girl who is using terms and references straight out of the KKK Manual.


Hmmm......

Mebbe MadAzza shoulda used 'bumpin' uglies' or 'grindin' da goodies' instead, after all not everyone chooses 'marriage' to get together to poonj and make a baby do they?

[sinjin]

I would like to submit miscegenate for consideration. My personal favorite.

[Glen Miyashiro]

I always thought mongrelize had a certain ring to it.

[kimo55]

I always thought mongrelize had a certain ring to it.

yea but don't be fooled by that; It's only cubic zirconia.

[pzarquon]

I would like to submit miscegenate for consideration. My personal favorite.As this thread slowly devolves into a ridiculous inventory of "synonyms for breed," I might as well ask about this one. Isn't an an interracial element implied with "miscegenate (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=miscegenate)"? It actually might be a useful word in the context of the original debate (outmarriage and dilution of ethnic lines)... wherever it is.

To answer the original question, "breed" in the context used didn't offend me. I just saw it as a colorful use of langage. Heck, I refer to my own kids as my offspring (or "my little tax deductions," for that matter). I know it can be loaded - these days mostly in conflicts between the childless and parents (a.k.a. Breeders), though, independent of a racial component - but knowing MadAzza, and given that her intent and style was clear, it didn't raise any red flags with me at all.

[Glen Miyashiro]

As this thread slowly devolves into a ridiculous inventory of "synonyms for breed," I might as well ask about this one. Isn't an an interracial element implied with "miscegenate (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=miscegenate)"? It actually might be a useful word in the context of the original debate (outmarriage and dilution of ethnic lines)... wherever it is.It certainly does have that implication, but the irony is that it usually is used in the context of trying to keep white people's blood pure. Here, we're talking about koko a kanaka maoli (did I get that right?).

To answer the original question, "breed" in the context used didn't offend me. I just saw it as a colorful use of langage. Heck, I refer to my own kids as my offspring (or "my little tax deductions," for that matter). I know it can be loaded - these days mostly in conflicts between the childless and parents (a.k.a. Breeders), though, independent of a racial component - but knowing MadAzza, and given that her intent and style was clear, it didn't raise any red flags with me at all.I don't hear "breeders" used by childless singles to refer to parentals as much as I hear it used by gays to refer to straights.

[kimo55]

As this thread slowly devolves into a ridiculous inventory of "synonyms for breed,"


...or names for rock groups.
such as;
"The Bumpin Uglies"

[Sindahrella808]

We agree to disagree...Cultural Insensitivity is a problem no matter where you go. Most of us born in Hawaii have lived with it our entire lives and unfortunately more liberal views on symantics and referrences have become "OK". As a Native Hawaiian who has seen the steady decline of our heritage, race, culture and social/economic status, Word like "breed", "those Hawaiian's", "those people", are offensive to me and many I know.

If you don't agree with the preservation of our race, then so be it. I guess as long as "whoever" (don't want to point fingers) manages to push most of us out to Waianae and Waimanalo, you don't really have to deal with us much anyway so who cares right?

Honestly, I truly think that MadAzza's post was harsh and insensitive to a very important Human Issue, but it appears that the issue isn't important to as many people as I thought.

[pzarquon]

Honestly, I truly think that MadAzza's post was harsh and insensitive to a very important Human Issue, but it appears that the issue isn't important to as many people as I thought.How condescendingly dismissive of you. I'm part Hawaiian. The state of the Hawaiian culture, and the Hawaiian people, are very important to me, and many of us here.

We discuss them quite a bit. Even the people you've personally attacked have had their own rants about the sad state of affairs for Hawaiians, how other cultures treat them personally and politically, and on and on. If you'd gotten to know us better before passing judgements, you might have learned this for yourself.

MadAzza seemed to have had a fair point. What is the priority? Preserving the history and culture, or preserving some hard to quantify fraction of purity of blood? I think it's the former.

There will be fewer and fewer "pure Hawaiians." Time, genetics, and most importantly free will makes this inevitable. On the other hand, the "number of Hawaiians" -- measured, for better or worse, as folks having some Native Hawaiian ancestry -- is growing, as Native Hawaiians like me breed, miscegenate, mongrelize, whatever. :p

And if those people... people who have might only a drop, metaphorically, of Hawaiian blood... find pride and value to their heritage, and contribute to its preservation, the Hawaiian people benefit greatly as a whole. My kids might only be 1/16 Hawaiian by some cold, silly measure, but if I can instill in them the same pride and reverence that was valued ages ago, I'll still consider it a success.

[Glen Miyashiro]

If you don't agree with the preservation of our race, then so be it. I guess as long as "whoever" (don't want to point fingers) manages to push most of us out to Waianae and Waimanalo, you don't really have to deal with us much anyway so who cares right?I don't understand what you mean here. If I "agree with the preservation of our race", exactly what am I agreeing to? The way you're wording it, it sounds like you're saying that Hawaiians should only marry and have children with other Hawaiians, and not non-Hawaiians. Is that what you mean?

[Leo Lakio]

As a Native Hawaiian...
OK, now you've lost me. You yourself scolded us in the other thread with: "Don't ever refer to "these Hawaiians" or "those local people", NEVER say "Natives""

If you don't agree with the preservation of our race, then so be it...it appears that the issue isn't important to as many people as I thought.
You asked people if we found the WORD "breed" offensive - you didn't ask what we thought about the diminution of the Hawaiian bloodlines. You are putting words in our mouths.

[Sindahrella808]

nevermind. Thanks

[Leo Lakio]

Aloha, a hui hou e malama pono.
Come back to the kitchen anytime, but remember that the heat may be up high. ;)

[Peshkwe]

Ok...so with remembering a past post, MadAzza could have used T'salagi:

"Udiqualvdeyadv" the word for 'screw'

"Uhalvni" the root for words with 'sex' in em, like sextant

"Unaligohi" the word for 'mate' as in: "Dinaligohisi udvnvisdi g'vdodi adv-siquas" (willingly mates with pigs)

Although context is important because a word like -

"Aninequogv" the word for breed but is usually used to refer to folks who are 'breeds'...so "Dininequogv g'vdodi adv-siquas, nasgi asgaya" would mean 'he breeds with pigs'



And no, I don't speak T'salagi, I went and asked...and hopefully the friend I asked got all his dangeling participles tidied up...

Nothin worse than a guy dangeling his participles over ever'thang. ;)

[Glen Miyashiro]

OK, I nominate T'salagi as one of the languages furthest away from Hawaiian. Oy, all those consonants! And how do you pronounce a "g" next to a "v"? :D

But thanks Peshkwe, that was cool.

[Peshkwe]

OK, I nominate T'salagi as one of the languages furthest away from Hawaiian. Oy, all those consonants! And how do you pronounce a "g" next to a "v"? :D

But thanks Peshkwe, that was cool.

I'll ask for ya :)

[Miulang]

Object lesson here: Never argue with people who are wordsmiths or journalists. They will run circles around your vocabulary any day, any time! :)

Miulang

[Peshkwe]

Here ya go Gle:

*ROFL!* It's not nearly as guttural as commanche. Pronounced right, the language is actually kind of sing-song. The consonants come from the syllabary: they're not really the Anglish "v", "d", "g", "dv", etc - they're compound phonemes used to represent sounds that English doesn't contain. [Thanks to Sequoya, we actually have our own syllabary. It's almost twice as large as English's.]

You might not want to tell him that the Old Tongue - Aniwunyiya - is even more guttural than modern t'salagi. laugh

Let's see.. it varies a bit from word to word because the phonemes are slightly different, as a "ch" can be hard or soft in English, but the "gv" in "Aninequogv" is pronounced "gah" or "guv" depending on the dialect. [Eastern T'salagi is a bit different from Western/Oklahoma T'salgi and Aniwunyiya is a bit different from both in pronunciations.]

It'd be Ahh-nee-ne-qwo-gah sounded out, with the accent on the "nee". ["Qwo" = "quo" as in "quote"] I think Eastern would be Ahh ni ne qwo guv, with accent on the "ne" and a bit more lilt on the "guv", but don't quote me on that. Wink

Similarly, "dv" is usually "duv" or "duh" at the end of a word...

If you're curious on a word's pronunciation, go here: Cherokee Nation Site (http://www.cherokee.org/), and look on the Sidebar at the left for Culture, click on that to extend it, and then click on the link that says "Word List". They screwed it up a bit, so it's no longer quite as easy to search, but if you enter in the first two letters of the English word in the top box, you'll get a list of all the words that start with those two letters, and the t'salagi equivalents. Click on the linked word, and if you have speakers, you'll get a Western Cherokee pronunciation.

I think the pronunciations have drifted a bit over the years, or else it's the accent of the girl that does the recordings... some of their words in the dikanesti sound different to me than I remember from when I was a kid.

Or maybe I'm old and my memory is failing.

[Sindahrella808]

Unfortunately being a wordsmith, does not make you intelligent when it comes to social issues....but hey, can't have everything

[Glen Miyashiro]

Unfortunately being a wordsmith, does not make you intelligent when it comes to social issues....but hey, can't have everythingThat's true. Being a wordsmith just makes you eloquent. Not being a wordsmith, well, that doesn't make you intelligent on social issues either -- it just makes you look uneducated online. Stop making snide swipes like that, it makes you look petty.

[Sindahrella808]

I'll think about it

[sinjin]

Unfortunately being a wordsmith, does not make you intelligent when it comes to social issues....but hey, can't have everything

One cannot make oneself intelligent, only knowledgeable. Intelligence is inherited, hopefully.

[Miulang]

Unfortunately being a wordsmith, does not make you intelligent when it comes to social issues....but hey, can't have everything
You sound like you've been having a bad week in general. Where'd you get your avi from? You need to smile more. :) Go do something nice for yourself; that always makes me feel better.

Miulang

P.S. to Glen and Peshkwe: on the other "Continent", the Welsh are no slouches with their language, either! Take a gander at some of the song titles on this album (http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/music/sites/superfurryanimals/pages/gruff_genhedlaeth.shtml).

How about these place names? GORSA*FAWDDACH*AIDRAIGODAN*HEDDO*GLEDDOLON*PENRHYN *AREUR*DRAETH*CEREDIGION or LLAN*FAIR*PWLL*GWYN*GYLL*GOGERY*CHWYRN*DROBWLL*LLA NTY*SILIO*GOGO*GOCH. Neither of these has the distinction of being the longest name for a place. This one from Thailand has that distinction:Krung-thep-maha-nakorn-boworn-ratana-kosin-
mahintar-ayudhya-amaha-dilok-pop-nopa-ratana-
rajthani-burirom-udom-rajniwes-mahasat-arn-amorn-pimarn-
avatar-satit-sakattiya-visanukam.

[LikaNui]

Cultural Insensitivity is a problem no matter where you go. So is Online Etiquette Insensitivity, apparently.

Most of us born in Hawaii have lived with it our entire lives
KahalaBrah, Part II. I smell a Professional Victim in our midst, trolling for flames.
Buh-bye...
:rolleyes:

I guess as long as "whoever" (don't want to point fingers) manages to push most of us out to Waianae and Waimanalo, you don't really have to deal with us much anyway so who cares right? Hey, where do I sign up to get "pushed out to Waianae and Waimanalo"? I love those two places and am terribly envious of those who get to live there, especially Waimanalo. Push me there, please!

[Glen Miyashiro]

Miulang, please please please go back and edit your post and stick a few spaces into that ultra-long placename. It's playing havoc with my margins!

[LikaNui]

Intelligence is inherited, hopefully. Ya mean it's inherited by, like, BREEDING?

:eek:

:D

[Miulang]

Miulang, please please please go back and edit your post and stick a few spaces into that ultra-long placename. It's playing havoc with my margins!
See if you can read it better now, Glen. If it wreaks that kind of havoc on your 'puter, imagine what color your face would be trying to say that name all in one breath! :p

Miulang

[Glen Miyashiro]

Much better. Thanks Miulang.

[Sindahrella808]

Hey, where do I sign up to get "pushed out to Waianae and Waimanalo"? I love those two places and am terribly envious of those who get to live there, especially Waimanalo. Push me there, please!

Ahhh, but you have a choice to NOT live there. Most of the residents (aside from DHHL residents) do not. I work in both communities and trust me when I say many if not most would give anything to be able to live elsewhere.

OK I hear it coming.."well tell them to do something about it". It just is not that easy. THere are so many factors affecting Native Hawaiians and thier ability to improve thier economic and heath status. I visit families every single day who are using duct tape to hold the window frame on the house, have been waiting on the DHHL list for 25 years and do not have the qualifications to get higher paying jobs, the mobility to look, or the finances to invest in "getting out". It is a vicious circle.

An ariticle by Kukuni Blaisdell from 1990: ( I will take some important numbers but you can read the entire article for yourself if you wish) Article by Kukuni (http://www.inmotionmagazine.com/kekuni3.html)

*Life expectancy at birth in 1990 continued to be shortest (67.5 (5) and 73.6(6) years) for Kanaka Maoli

*health plight of the Kanaka Maoli (indigenous Hawaiians) as the worst of all ethnic groups in their homeland

*In 1990, Kanaka Maoli also continued to have the worst social, educational and economic indicators (5). Home ownership was lowest for Kanaka Maoli

Yes these are 1990 number however, the figures have not improved.

So yea, lucky they live Waiane and Waimanalo, from your perspective, but not for those who have no other choice.

[pzarquon]

Well presented, Sindahrella808, and again, all facts that we're all painfully aware of.

If you're still willing to engage in an actual conversation here, can you now help us understand - as we've quite earnestly asked - what "the preservation of our race" means as a solution to these discouraging statistics? In the context of the original discussion that spawned this whole side show, it seems that you're saying that preserving bloodlines and discouraging intermarriages (outside Native Hawaiians) is needed.

As a sad but practical way to keep "blood quantum" up to meet the threshold for special programs, I suppose it's a plus, but ultimately the preservation of history and culture is completely separate from the arbitrary judgement as to the "quality" of one's genes.

[Glen Miyashiro]

I work in both communities and trust me when I say many if not most would give anything to be able to live elsewhere.What do you do there? Sounds like you're a social worker, or something similar?

OK I hear it coming.."well tell them to do something about it". It just is not that easy. THere are so many factors affecting Native Hawaiians and thier ability to improve thier economic and heath status. I visit families every single day who are using duct tape to hold the window frame on the house, have been waiting on the DHHL list for 25 years and do not have the qualifications to get higher paying jobs, the mobility to look, or the finances to invest in "getting out". It is a vicious circle.See, now this is legitimate, serious stuff. This, we can agree on. And you don't need to quote lots of statistics to make your argument; I'd say most of us here at HT agree that native Hawaiians have got it bad.

That is, assuming you still want to talk to us about it.

[Sindahrella808]

What do you do there? Sounds like you're a social worker, or something similar?

See, now this is legitimate, serious stuff. This, we can agree on. And you don't need to quote lots of statistics to make your argument; I'd say most of us here at HT agree that native Hawaiians have got it bad.

That is, assuming you still want to talk to us about it.

I am a Social Worker of sorts. My position comes under the department of public safety.

[Sindahrella808]

As a sad but practical way to keep "blood quantum" up to meet the threshold for special programs, I suppose it's a plus, but ultimately the preservation of history and culture is completely separate from the arbitrary judgement as to the "quality" of one's genes.

There would be so much backlash if we were to encourage Hawaiian's marrying only Hawaiian's. But unfortunately I think it is the only scientific way to actually prevent the last of the pure Hawaiian's dying out in our lifetime. I don't think anyone would want to see that happen, I just don't see any politically correct way to stop it. Programs like DHHL at least for now allow family members of 25% blood quantum to inherit the lease, however, I fear eventually, 25% will be hard to come by and the program will fold.

There is no easy answer, perhaps there is NO answer and soon we will see the last of a beautiful, special 100% pure, indigenous race of human beings lost forever.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

First and foremost, mahalo nui for the turn around on this conversation, because I believe it has very real merit, particularly in the area of figuring out how to guide the trends that are occuring. The pilikia comes with determining the starting point. Do we start on the macro level? I say 'no'. Its one person at a time. It comes down to the people.

So let me tell you about the people on just my street, which is 1.25 mi long:
-we are all DHHL leasees.
-the lots were awarded back in 1979 and all except for four are under the original leasee (two of us have our fathers' leases)
-only ONE family has a head of household who isn't at least 25% Hawaiian (meaning, each leasee around here married another kanaka who can qualify at least as a beneficiary). That family would live across the street from me.
-we are all gainfully employed, except for the few kupuna who are retired
-we own American trucks and Japanese cars
-everybody's kids are respectful, and the majority of them are enrolled in Hawaiian immersion schools.
-I know of no drug dealing whatsoever on this street.

It aint Walden, but its not the ghetto. The kupuna on this street have been long regarded as pioneers, scrappers against the inefficiencies and suspect ethics of DHHL and other entities that have held power. Living around these people has a real way of rubbing off on people, of our socializing ourselves to keep to high personal standards.

And lest you think that this is my only real HHL experience, the homestead I grew up on is not this one, but a group of houselots far, far away. But that wasn't the ghetto either. We were all just poor. And yet whenever I go back there, I still see in the faces of those children their parents and kupuna with whom I grew up. Still, I feel safe there, and I can still find a friendly face to kiss everytime I walk into the local market in that area.

I believe the hyper concern we each share for our kids, for each other's kids is remnant thinking from our ahapua'a days. Its inbred in us. There is nothing romantic about dreaming of kalo farming. It is profoundly simple: you don't work hard, you and your family will have nothing to eat. So work hard.

Ah, I am rambling...it would have been much simpler to say, "I get hope yet for our people."

===========
edited because my road is a mile and a quarter long, not the generous parking stall size I had inadvertently typed.

[sinjin]

Please ramble some more and IMO simpler would not be nearly as inspiring.

[Jonah K]

There would be so much backlash if we were to encourage Hawaiian's marrying only Hawaiian's. But unfortunately I think it is the only scientific way to actually prevent the last of the pure Hawaiian's dying out in our lifetime. I don't think anyone would want to see that happen, I just don't see any politically correct way to stop it. Programs like DHHL at least for now allow family members of 25% blood quantum to inherit the lease, however, I fear eventually, 25% will be hard to come by and the program will fold.

There is no easy answer, perhaps there is NO answer and soon we will see the last of a beautiful, special 100% pure, indigenous race of human beings lost forever.
Aloha Sindahrella808,

As a college-educated, single, kanaka maoli male with a few ali'i ancestors, it's hard enough to find a suitable, similarly-educated kanaka maoli female to date, let alone ho'opulapula with. :rolleyes:

Cheers,

Jonah K

[Palolo Joe]

As a college-educated, single, kanaka maoli male with a few ali'i ancestors, it's hard enough to find a suitable, similarly-educated kanaka maoli female to date, let alone ho'opulapula with.I second that... except I don't think any of my ancestors were ali'i. And I'm a little more "watered-down" than Jonah is when it comes to blood quantum. ;)

But hey, if I stumble upon a hidden stash of those women you describe, I'll be sure to drop you a PM man. :D

And the word is ho'opulapula... spread it around... :cool:

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Aloha Sindahrella808,

As a college-educated, single, kanaka maoli male with a few ali'i ancestors, it's hard enough to find a suitable, similarly-educated kanaka maoli female to date, let alone ho'opulapula with. :rolleyes:

Cheers,

Jonah K

Do you have *any* idea how many educated wahine with good mo'oku'auhau are on the prowl for kane that fit your description? I know choke!

[Sindahrella808]

Aloha Sindahrella808,

As a college-educated, single, kanaka maoli male with a few ali'i ancestors, it's hard enough to find a suitable, similarly-educated kanaka maoli female to date, let alone ho'opulapula with. :rolleyes:

Cheers,

Jonah K

Uh Manoa has been very generous with Tuition Waivers for financially challenged and minority students, including our Native Hawaiian bothers and sisters....I do hope however, that you will agree that many of our beautiful Kanaka Maoli sisters may not have the degree, but are in their own right intelligent, "suitable" partners.

[Jonah K]

Do you have *any* idea how many educated wahine with good mo'oku'auhau are on the prowl for kane that fit your description? I know choke!
Aloha Pua'i,

I have some idea. ;) A little over a decade ago, Mililani Trask drunkenly offered to be the mother of my children. However, I was 28 at the time and she was 41. If I were 10 years older or she were 10 years younger.... In general, I probably have more in common with kanaka maoli women who have at least a master's degree, because I have a few graduate degrees and I'm somewhat proficient in several different languages.

Cheers,

Jonah K

[Jonah K]

Uh Manoa has been very generous with Tuition Waivers for financially challenged and minority students, including our Native Hawaiian bothers and sisters....I do hope however, that you will agree that many of our beautiful Kanaka Maoli sisters may not have the degree, but are in their own right intelligent, "suitable" partners.
I agree that UH Mānoa has many beautiful kanaka maoli sisters there as students working on their degrees. Unfortunately, most of them are young enough to be my kaikamahine and I probably have more in common with their professors. Some of my old law school classmates (as well as some of my grad school classmates) are professors at Mānoa, so it would probably be a little awkward if I were to date a student there. :o In addition, it would probably be too inconvenient for a kanaka maoli woman on O'ahu to date someone who lives in the "boonies" on the Big Island.

Cheers,

Jonah K

[ojosverdesdegato]

The only part of this whole thread that offends ME is the implication that "we" humans are so above the animal world, that we believe that our way of procreating is any different from that of the animals.
I can think of a lot of words that are more offensive than the word "breed" . It is simply the act that usually leads to procreation.

Animals "breed", and People "breed". We all "breed" if we want to reproduce, and I don't think Hawaiians have found a way to do it with any more class than the rest of the mammal world. Now, the word "rutt" might be a little more offensive when applied to humans, because the word "rutt' is usually used when referring to animals...such as moose etc.....but then I'm a Canadian, and we've been breeding in our "multicultural" society for generations, so I guess we sould be more upset if we wern't "breeding", because that would mean that we wern't "gettin' none".

happy "breeding" out there......

Claudia

[craigwatanabe]

Aloha Sindahrella808,

As a college-educated, single, kanaka maoli male with a few ali'i ancestors, it's hard enough to find a suitable, similarly-educated kanaka maoli female to date, let alone ho'opulapula with. :rolleyes:

Cheers,

Jonah K


The truth to that statement is a sad one...but all too true. If more Hawaiians became college graduate literate that statement would be a false one. Hawaiians need to pull together and like I said before like a broken record: form a chamber of commerce, form an ag cooperative, get more Kanaka Maoli in local and national government.

By placing themselves in the political and commerce powerseats, they control their destiny. How do you do it? Play the white man's game and beat them at their own rules!

If Hawaiians became the dominant leaders by virtue of their education, oh man this state would be such a different place than how it is now!

My grandparents told my parents who told me (I'm 100% Japanese Sansei) to get educated and become the leaders of your communities. Guess what...we did and it's no surprise the Japanese have become the ones in the powerseats in local and federal government. If we could do it rising up from the plantations and the all powerful Lunas...the Hawaiians can as well, and with the many programs out there to assist the Kanaka Maoli thru small business start up loans from OHA and scholarships from KSBE it's even easier than ever for Hawaiians to build an economic and political powerhouse this state has never seen.

But it takes organization and a sense of unity amongst the over 120+Hawaiian groups claiming the throne. All this in-fighting only splits Hawaiians into powerless subgroups...something the white man knows and wants. It's called Plantation Mentality where the Lunas pit one against another thru suspicion and paranoia against each other. Like the song goes: United we stand...divided we part. Strength in numbers.

If Hawaiians want their lands back they must get their acts together and stop this bickering with each other.

Did I go OT again? Oh well I'm just really passionate with this issue. :)