TiVo vs. Oceanic's DVR

[Glen Miyashiro]

Oceanic has been bombarding me with offers for their new DVR. Does anybody know, what features does it have in comparison to TiVo?

[pzarquon]

I wish I knew someone with one of Oceanic's DVR boxes, just so I could do a side-by-side comparison. Though I'd be biased.

I'm totally addicted to our TiVo. We got the Home Media Option, linked it to the net via WiFi, upgraded to a billion hours (not really) by swapping out the hard drive... We haven't watched "live television" in ages. My kids now only watch stuff we pick out (from which they can easily choose), we can have our own "CSI" marathons, we can skip all the singing in "American Idol," and we can play our MP3s over our entertainment system.

Those Oceanic DVR ads are everywhere. Meanwhile, we downgraded from digital to analog cable when our TiVo helped us realize 90 percent of what we care to watch is already available on basic.

[Glen Miyashiro]

I'm totally addicted to our TiVo. We got the Home Media Option, linked it to the net via WiFi, upgraded to a billion hours (not really) by swapping out the hard drive...
Oooh. My inner geek just started drooling. I didn't know TiVos could use WiFi, I thought you had to have a modem connection. This makes it a much more interesting gadget to me, as I already have a WiFi access point on my home LAN. And how difficult is it to swap the hard drive compared to on a regular PC? Tell me more!

[helen]

Is the cost of TiVo a one time thing or does one need to pay monthly fee like Oceanic's DVR?

[pzarquon]

And how difficult is it to swap the hard drive compared to on a regular PC? Tell me more!If you go to Weaknees.com (http://www.weaknees.com), they specialize in TiVo upgrades. They can sell you the actual upgraded TiVo (they're an authorized reseller), they can sell you the hard drive upgrade kit for you to do it yourself, and they can take your TiVo by mail, upgrade it for you, and mail it back. I'm pretty sure the process is as easy as doing it on your home PC, which I've done, but for some reason my upgrade from them wouldn't take, so I ended up shipping it to them and paying them to do it for me.

And yeah, the TiVo at a minimum needs access to a phone line, but it also has an Ethernet port and it can either sit on your wired network, or your wireless one.

Is the cost of TiVo a one time thing or does one need to pay monthly fee like Oceanic's DVR?There is a monthly fee if that's the way you want to go. We shelled out $300 to buy the "lifetime" subscription outright (the lifetime of the box, though, not the owner's lifetime!). The gamble is that we'll use the TiVo for more than two years, and that the company will last more than two years. We're more than halfway there, after which point the investment will have paid off.

[Glen Miyashiro]

And yeah, the TiVo at a minimum needs access to a phone line, but it also has an Ethernet port and it can either sit on your wired network, or your wireless one.
So if I have an Ethernet connection for the thing, either wired or wireless, then do I still need to have a phone line connection as well? I'm hoping the answer is no.

[pzarquon]

You're correct. TiVo needs to talk to the mother ship, but it needs either a phone line or 'net access, not both. Gonna buy one yet?

I swear TiVo should have a referral program. :o

[helen]

Tuesday's Honolulu Advertiser had an AP piece (http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2004/Apr/27/bz/bz09a.html) about TiVo and DVR.

[Timster]

As much as I hate Time Warner (Oceanic), the DVR is the better route than TiVO.

Tivo you have to pay a monthly charge and purchase a unit.

DVR you just pay the monthly charge and TW lends you the unit for free. I've had my DVR for a couple of months and I totally love it. Something like a microwave, you wonder how you functioned before you purchased it. Scan the tv guide, program what you want. Let the DVR record for you, and watch whenever you want.

If you currently have a digital cable box, you can swap it over the counter at Time Warner. Thats what I did. I suggest you try it out, give it a couple of weeks, and if you don't like it, swap the boxes back. And they'll pro-rate the charge.

And no, I don't work for TW.

Hope this helps!

[808_m3]

Oooh. My inner geek just started drooling. I didn't know TiVos could use WiFi, I thought you had to have a modem connection. This makes it a much more interesting gadget to me, as I already have a WiFi access point on my home LAN. And how difficult is it to swap the hard drive compared to on a regular PC? Tell me more!

It's pretty easy to replace the hard disk.

Since Tivo uses Linux, you can use many of the available tools online to add another drive or replace the hard drive with a larger one. Try this site (http://www.newreleasesvideo.com/hinsdale-how-to/)

In fact, I highly recommend that you backup the Tivo's hard disk. As you know, this will be the component that will likely fail over time.

The MFS tools will just backup the Tivo's Linux OS, your season passes, ratings, etc, but not the media files that contain the shows. You can fit the backup on a CD. I think my Tivo image was 200 MB. In a pinch, when the drive fails, you can restore the backup to a new hard disk...and voila..back in business...

[pzarquon]

I finally played with an Oceanic DVR over at Oceanic's HQ, and am pretty glad I went with TiVo -- as if I had a choice, since TiVo was around long before Time-Warner tried to enter the hardware space themselves.

TiVo's interface is more elegant, since they've had a multitude of revisions over the past several years to work out the kinks. A TiVo is your box, not a rented unit, which - for me - is preferable, and why I stick with basic cable: I don't like "renting" a box just to translate the signal, when I'm already paying for the signal.

TiVo supports multi-unit homes, and transfers between units (when my kids are in the living room, they can copy over their cartoons from the TiVo in the den). TiVo integrates with PCs to stream music or photo albums from my computer to the big-screen TV. And thanks to a recent FCC decision (http://www.forbes.com/infoimaging/feeds/infoimaging/2004/08/05/infoimagingusatoday_2004_08_05_eng-usatoday_money3_eng-usatoday_money3_050213_8173817139810733966.html), TiVo-To-Go will allow me to send shows to friends over the Internet, get shows from them, and download all sorts of content from third-parties. So far, the sky remains the limit... and that's just out of the box.

For the tinkerer, a TiVo is a beautiful thing. You can tinker with its insides, upgrade its capacity, back it up, beef it up... if you're willing to do things TiVo would rather you not, you can extract the saved shows and save them on your PC or burn them to DVDs (of course, combo DVD-TiVo units exist to do this legally). Based on the open Linux OS, a TiVo truly is a computer, as simple or as complicated as you want to make it.

Since both TiVo and Oceanic's DVR require a subscription, but a TiVo box puts you in control, it seems like a simple decision. Just my humble opinion of course.

I liked the article linked above, though, about how all DVRs are being called TiVos, since they defined the space. It's like how folks call all MP3 players iPods even when they're not Apple iPods, or how folks called all portable cassette radio players Walkmans even when they weren't Sony's.

[Konaguy]

One thing the Oceanic Time Warner Cable ads for the DVR
do not say is you have to pay additional $6.70 on top of
the $9.95 you pay to rent the DVR. The reason why is the
Scientific Atlanta DVR has the Digital Cable settop box
built into the DVR.

Thus this is the reason why I have held back renting the
DVR from Oceanic. There is no way I could justify paying
$16.65 + tax per month.

[Konaguy]

Meanwhile, we downgraded from digital to analog cable when our TiVo helped us realize 90 percent of what we care to watch is already available on basic.

Well to be fair there is some things on Digital that you
cannot get on analog I like. For instance PPV is not available
on analog anymore and you cannot get iControl VOD movies.
Plus despite the mostly crappy channels on digital, there
is some I like and I cannot get them on analog [Encore and
most of the premium channels are only available on digital]
Thank goodness for the favorites option on the SA digital settop box.

[808_m3]

For the tinkerer, a TiVo is a beautiful thing. You can tinker with its insides, upgrade its capacity, back it up, beef it up... if you're willing to do things TiVo would rather you not, you can extract the saved shows and save them on your PC or burn them to DVDs (of course, combo DVD-TiVo units exist to do this legally). Based on the open Linux OS, a TiVo truly is a computer, as simple or as complicated as you want to make it.



Yup yup, certainly a lot of mods out there for Tivos. A buddy of mine purchased the network card kit to put his Tivo on the network. He sets the unit to download TV schedule data from the Internet, which eliminates the need for the modem. You can also setup at telnet or ftp server on Tivo to access and download TV programs.

One mod I'd like to see is to remove the 137 GB hard disk limitation on the existing Tivos. There are some hacks available, but I haven't messed with it too much..I'd rather wait until Tivo releases a new software revision to address that. Putting down 2 250 GB hard disks into Tivo sounds pretty cool, but I have to admit that's just A LOT of TV to store.

[Glen Miyashiro]

TiVo supports multi-unit homes, and transfers between units (when my kids are in the living room, they can copy over their cartoons from the TiVo in the den). TiVo integrates with PCs to stream music or photo albums from my computer to the big-screen TV. And thanks to a recent FCC decision (http://www.forbes.com/infoimaging/feeds/infoimaging/2004/08/05/infoimagingusatoday_2004_08_05_eng-usatoday_money3_eng-usatoday_money3_050213_8173817139810733966.html), TiVo-To-Go will allow me to send shows to friends over the Internet, get shows from them, and download all sorts of content from third-parties. So far, the sky remains the limit... and that's just out of the box.
So, if you have recorded a show on your TiVo, which is on your network, would you be able to watch the show from one of the PCs on your network? In my house we have more PCs than televisions, so this would be a really useful trick. :D

[pzarquon]

So, if you have recorded a show on your TiVo, which is on your network, would you be able to watch the show from one of the PCs on your network? In my house we have more PCs than televisions, so this would be a really useful trick.Right now, you can already send shows from one TiVo to another. With TiVo-To-Go (here's the official announcement (http://www.tivo.com/5.3.1.1.asp?article=196)), though, yes, you willbe able to do stuff with your TiVo content - music, shows, and photos - on other devices, including PCs.For the first time, TiVo subscribers with Home Media Option(TM) will be able to move their favorite programs stored on a TiVo DVR to a laptop for viewing on the road, or to any PC. For those who have a PC equipped with a DVD burner, programs can then be burned to DVD so users can take the TiVo experience with them wherever they go.The big giant question mark is how their DRM system will work. I think at one point it was literally going to be a physical dongle or USB key that needed to be plugged into the alternate device to authorize playback... but last I've heard, it's going to be an all-software solution, probably comparable to Apple's FairPlay.

[mel]

Everyone interested in recording digital TV content to your computers ought to be buying a PC network card for that purpose today because by next year, the movie and TV industry plan to put a major roadblock in your way. (http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showthread.php?p=6344#post6344) :eek:

[Konaguy]

This recent decision in favor of TiVo by the FCC, I read is going to court
probably. The NFL is exploring going to court to block this because they
are afraid people in areas where the games are blacked out will be able
to see it through sharing on TiVo.

[pzarquon]

Just caught a great post (http://www.boingboing.net/2004/08/16/i_hate_this_digital_.html) (thanks, Jon (http://talkstink.com/archives/2004/08/17/tivo-for-89-after-100-rebate/)) by someone who has used both the Time-Warner DVR and a TiVo -- Mark Frauenfelder of the illustrious Boingboing.net. Being a uber-geek and a bit of a usability evangelist, the Time-Warner unit gets a hair-pulling thumbs down, and the TiVo (now under $100) gets an enthusiastic thumbs up.

If TiVo were a beverage, it'd be a tall glass of Jamaican ginger beer with chipped ice and a lime wedge, while the Explorer 800 would be a paper cup of warm fake lemonade stirred with the finger of a nose-picking six-year-old.
Read the whole thing, entitled, "I hate this digital video recorder (http://www.boingboing.net/2004/08/16/i_hate_this_digital_.html): Scientific-Atlanta Explorer 8000."

[scrivener]

You're correct. TiVo needs to talk to the mother ship, but it needs either a phone line or 'net access, not both.
I just want to clarify this. If you have just a landline, you can make TiVo work without an ISP? So does your box call the mother ship, or does the mother ship place calls to your box?

[pzarquon]

I just want to clarify this. If you have just a landline, you can make TiVo work without an ISP? So does your box call the mother ship, or does the mother ship place calls to your box?TiVo doesn't need net access. Lots of TiVos do their thing only with a landline. TiVo does the calling, too, and uses a local access number IIRC. (The first call is to an 800 number to determine the local number.) Interestingly, a lot of TiVo users were annoyed at the landline requirement, at least for that initial setup, so they might have found a way around it with the Series 3 boxes. But I haven't "moved up" yet.

TiVos got a little less attractive with their new pricing plan (no "lifetime" option too, which is what we have on our boxes) -- the best time to have gotten TiVo was before March.

[craigwatanabe]

1) Does Tivo get it's programming from their own site meaning no need for cable or satellite?

2) Can Tivo receive local broadcasts like KHON, KITV, KGMB etc off the same land line or net connection or does it require an antenna feed?

3) I've heard that you can use a Tivo as a standalone DVR but if you don't subscribe to it can you still use it as a DVR but with no programming control other than timing to turn on and record whatever it's input is connected to?

4) What kind of formatting does Tivo require on the hard drive?

And finally,

5) What format is the recorded file? Such as avi, mpeg4, etc?

[Hellbent]

how does a custom built PVR compare vs a tivo? arent some shows restricted from tivo now?

[Pua'i Mana'o]

save the money, and learn to love all that low rez has to offer when you find what you want on youtube, metacafe and stupidvideos.:p

[craigwatanabe]

save the money, and learn to love all that low rez has to offer when you find what you want on youtube, metacafe and stupidvideos.:p

you got a point there because even with HDTV, it's still the content that's important. I don't need to be reminded visually of a stupid tv show in high definition.

And I don't care how good HD is, if you want to see the Grand Canyon in high definition, you can't beat being there and no TV set will ever capture the awesome feeling of the Niagra Falls even with surround sound.

[manoasurfer123]

One of the big problems with Oceanics DVR is that it will not record HDTV.

One option: The Motorola DCT6412 Dual-Tuner HD-DVR

Until recently, television viewers who recognize the value of both High Definition Television (HDTV) and Digital Video Recorder (DVR) technology were not able to integrate all of these desirable advancements in one device. Now Motorola has two advanced high definition set tops that make integration a reality!
http://broadband.motorola.com/dvr/

This seems like a good one to p/u if your into HDTV! (anyone know if they are going to become available in HAWAII?)

Watch live HDTV while you record another HDTV program! Record live HDTV while you watch previously recorded HDTV programming! Record two HDTV programs at the same time!

[pzarquon]

1) Does Tivo get it's programming from their own site meaning no need for cable or satellite?Correct. TiVo, of course, actually gets its program data from one of the few core providers that everyone else uses, but serves it to you on its own system (either online through an internet connection or through periodic local-number landline dialouts).
Can Tivo receive local broadcasts like KHON, KITV, KGMB etc off the same land line or net connection or does it require an antenna feed?Actually, running TiVo on an antenna is uncommon. Usually it records off a cable or digital cable signal, so as long as you get local channels there, you've got it on TiVo.
I've heard that you can use a Tivo as a standalone DVR but if you don't subscribe to it can you still use it as a DVR but with no programming control other than timing to turn on and record whatever it's input is connected to?I think this is still the case -- that you can basically use your TiVo as a tapeless manual VCR -- though perhaps newer units are "locked down" in some way to be pretty useless without a subscription. Considering that they moved their entire business to subscription models (i.e. pushing monthly fees and no up-front hardware purchase), this wouldn't surprise me at all.
What kind of formatting does Tivo require on the hard drive?TiVos come with hard drives, but they're standard 3.5" drives with (I think) Linux formatting. There are companies like Weaknees that sell pre-configured large capacity drives, so you can turn your 80-hour TiVo (which is really a 20-hour TiVo if you use the highest quality, lowest compression settings) into a 300-hour TiVo. And, of course, some DIY nuts do it themselves. I bought the smallest stock drive for our TiVos, then immediately put in larger Weaknees drives.
What format is the recorded file? Such as avi, mpeg4, etc?I think it's a flavor of MPEG, MPEG-2 perhaps. But remember -- while there are lots of great features now for PC-to-TiVo and vice versa transfers and archiving, there is a DRM system in place, so you can't send your recording of "Battlestar Galactica" to your friend. At least as designed. Like with most systems, though, there are dozens of ways around the DRM, and folks are burning DVDs and both posting and downloading shows via bittorrent all over the place. I don't mess with that stuff, though -- there's enough legitimately recorded stuff to keep up with!

As for HDTV, the TiVo Series 3 is an HDTV DVR. Upgrading to a Series 3 from a Series 2 would require me to also move off standard cable to digital cable and upgrade my TV. And, as some have said, I have no problem with "low resolution" regular TV... even though my HDTV friends insist I'm not really watching "LOST" without it.
how does a custom built PVR compare vs a tivo? arent some shows restricted from tivo now?There are rumblings that things like broadcast flags and other evil DRM schemes will begin to limit what a TiVo can do, from putting expiration dates on shows you've saved to preventing them from being saved at all... even turning off commercial skipping. Definitely troubling, and one of the reasons I'm happily staying "behind" with my lifetime Series 2 box and standard cable.

For the future? Well, if TiVo loses its battle with the networks and cable companies and starts telling me what I can't do, MythTV and a custom box will probably be the way to go.

As to the original question, "TiVo vs. Oceanic DVR," I have to say as a TiVo fanboy that you may very well find the Oceanic offering to be more than enough. It's basic, it's integrated with Oceanic (no weird channel-change quirks like with an add-on TiVo), and affordable. My dad has it and thinks it's great. In core functionality, there's little difference.

But, just like the Mac OSX GUI versus Windows, I give a lot of points for elegance and intuitive design. And while TiVo is struggling to serve its customers as well as its content providers (with yucky DRM stuff), they're far more likely to "hold out" and give you power to do creative stuff with what you've recorded than Oceanic, which is basically part of the problem.

[bueller555]

I'll take a crack at these. Please jump in to add more:

1) Does Tivo get it's programming from their own site meaning no need for cable or satellite?
The phoneline or wifi connection is needed only to update the Tivo programming guide and other doodads that are part of the Tivo features. No television programming is sent via the phoneline (i.e. episodes of Lost are not sent via the phone.) However, some special Tivo content is actually sent via phonelines (or wifi), but it's very limited. For example, I subscribe (for free) via the Tivo to CNET's Tip for Living. This is a 12 minute video program that is sent via the web to my Tivo weekly.

2) Can Tivo receive local broadcasts like KHON, KITV, KGMB etc off the same land line or net connection or does it require an antenna feed?
No, it requires either an over-the-air antenna, cable or satellite.

3) I've heard that you can use a Tivo as a standalone DVR but if you don't subscribe to it can you still use it as a DVR but with no programming control other than timing to turn on and record whatever it's input is connected to?
This might have been true with the Series 1 Tivo, but not so with the current Series 2 or 3. After your schedule guide runs out of information, the Tivo is pretty useless. It cannot be programmed like a VCR to record on a specific time and day of the week only. It requires the updated schedule guide information.

4) What kind of formatting does Tivo require on the hard drive?
Not sure what the formatting is, but the info can be found here. http://www.newreleasesvideo.com/hinsdale-how-to/index9.html I read that if Windows is allowed to boot from the upgrade drive, it will render the drive useless for Tivo.

And finally,

5) What format is the recorded file? Such as avi, mpeg4, etc?
Not sure on this one. I'm pretty sure that it's not a standard format because it requires a lot of hoop jumping to make it burnable.

[craigwatanabe]

I'll take a crack at these. Please jump in to add more:
The phoneline or wifi connection is needed only to update the Tivo programming guide and other doodads that are part of the Tivo features. No television programming is sent via the phoneline (i.e. episodes of Lost are not sent via the phone.) However, some special Tivo content is actually sent via phonelines (or wifi), but it's very limited. For example, I subscribe (for free) via the Tivo to CNET's Tip for Living. This is a 12 minute video program that is sent via the web to my Tivo weekly.

So where does Tivo get it's programming from?

[pzarquon]

So where does Tivo get it's programming from?Craig, what are you asking? I think you got both answers, but maybe we're misunderstanding your question.

Where does TiVo get its information about programs? That is, the frequently updated schedule that it needs to know when "Good Eats" is on? It's downloaded either over the phone (local call for most locales) or over the web, licensed from Tribune Media (the same provider for services like Zap2It and Yahoo! TV, I think).

Where does TiVo get its content? That is, the stuff you actually watch? It tapes it off your cable box. Or satellite dish (i.e. DirecTiVo).

If you have your TiVo linked into your home network, it can also download special content over the Internet... the CNet shows, movie trailers, podcasts (though these are streamed, not cached), video podcasts, yada yada yada. There is a lot of integration with Yahoo! web services, in fact. You can browse Yahoo! Photos or check Yahoo! Weather on your TiVo-powered TV, for example.

[craigwatanabe]

So Tivo uses content from Satellite and cable providers? If that's the case then wouldn't it be easier to just use the DVR from let's say Dish Network where programming is all integrated with the DVR? Or is Tivo as integrated as well.

If both require additional subscriptions for usage then is Tivo cheaper than Dish network's DVR set up?

My mom is so frustrated with recording programming on her VCR. It would be nice to just have her go to the menu and select what programs she wants to record on a weekly basis instead of setting up the satellite receiver to a certain channel then recording it on the VCR (real old school here). Then she can watch her wrestling and cooking shows while my dad watches his Japanese programs.

[bueller555]

I switched my mom over to the Oceanic DVR. At first she was content to use her VCR, but when I upgraded her box by swapping it out for the DVR, she couldn't be happier. My mom is 73 and the DVR is no problem for her. The DVR can record two programs simultaneously and this is important to her because sometimes there are programs on both NGN and NGN2 and/or NGN3 that she doesn't want to miss. I also showed her how to copy over her DVR recorded programs to a VCR so that she can share her programs via VHS tape with her friends.



So Tivo uses content from Satellite and cable providers? If that's the case then wouldn't it be easier to just use the DVR from let's say Dish Network where programming is all integrated with the DVR? Or is Tivo as integrated as well.

If both require additional subscriptions for usage then is Tivo cheaper than Dish network's DVR set up?

My mom is so frustrated with recording programming on her VCR. It would be nice to just have her go to the menu and select what programs she wants to record on a weekly basis instead of setting up the satellite receiver to a certain channel then recording it on the VCR (real old school here). Then she can watch her wrestling and cooking shows while my dad watches his Japanese programs.

[Brad White]

HD is amazing... on sale they can start at $800 for a 50 inch wide screen. We got ours with free delivery from Circuit City, we bought it online last January and the local store brought it out. Combined with the DVR HD package, I will never go to a movie theater again. Watching movies or documentaries or even prime time is unbelieable. It is almost 3D is that there is depth that you could never see before. You can see the texture and feel of someones clothes. When I would see TV's in stores I would think what is the big deal... but when it was home a set up properly it was like going from mono of the 50's into stereo, or from black and white to color TV. You plug it into surround sound and the experience is captivating. For home entertainment this is the best there has ever been.

Regarding DVR or TIVO I think everyone agrees the TIVO is a better system, but if you are watching cable, especially HD and digital, then the DVR is more practical from an expense point of view. It works just fine, and its cheaper in the long run... you can turn it in for the next model and no repairs. Plus it has the tuner built in and can record two shows while watching a prerecorded third and sending a forth recording to an external recorder... all at the same time. I wish TW offered the TIVO OS in their box... but I am not going to get a TIVO just because of that. Anyway I have had alot of experience with this equiptment and if someone would like to talk my phone number is on my website. By the way I also put little videos on my Palm for portable viewing... that is great too. So many options we have now :)

[scrivener]

I simply can't afford an HDTV, so I'm hoping it will be a while before stations actually STOP broadcasting the old way. I know that sentence is filled with all kinds of ignorance, but TV just important enough to me right now to figure it all out.

However. There are things I tape and then later edit down to suit my needs (mostly instructional; largely entertaining). If what I'm hearing is right, and I won't be able to take content off TiVo and edit it in a video editor on my laptop, TiVo is pretty close to useless for me. Is this right?

[Brad White]

The Oceanic/Scientific Atlantic DVR 8300 is an HD recorder and it has a 160 Gig hard drive. You can also plug in a ATA external hard drive and double your recording size. You can also save to an analog DVD recorder. A new version that is just out (but not yet in Hawaii yet) has a built in DVD recorder. My 8300 has a HDMI cable for our HDTV. Once you have had HD in your home you would never be able or want to go back. A curse or a blessing :)

[bueller555]

I've been searching the web for an easy solution and despite the popularity of Tivo, it's locked down pretty tight and the solutions to do a digital transfer of recorded material isn't easy. I've done it the less elegant way where I've simply used the video out from the Tivo and captured the program directly to my laptop or camcorder. This way, I can edit the video using standard video editing tools. The video out from the Tivo is analog, so I don't maintain the "purity" of a direct digital transfer, but it's good enough for me.



I simply can't afford an HDTV, so I'm hoping it will be a while before stations actually STOP broadcasting the old way. I know that sentence is filled with all kinds of ignorance, but TV just important enough to me right now to figure it all out.

However. There are things I tape and then later edit down to suit my needs (mostly instructional; largely entertaining). If what I'm hearing is right, and I won't be able to take content off TiVo and edit it in a video editor on my laptop, TiVo is pretty close to useless for me. Is this right?

[pzarquon]

So Tivo uses content from Satellite and cable providers? If that's the case then wouldn't it be easier to just use the DVR from let's say Dish Network where programming is all integrated with the DVR? Or is Tivo as integrated as well.TiVo is a third-party. You bet your sweet bippy your cable or sattelite provider wants you to use their system. So yes it's easier, and cheaper, and like I said, for basic use, the DVR from your cable provider will probably be more than enough, especially for your mom.

TiVo is differentiating itself on features and design, but just like deciding between Mac OSX and Windows, it's a difference that doesn't matter to a lot of people.

TiVo's Series 3 is a dual-tuner and does HDTV, but the current Series 2 does not, which is a consideration. (We solve the two-channels-at-the-same-time problem by having two TiVos!) Also, to use a TiVo with digital cable, there's a "ghetto" (as a friend called it) IR setup needed to get it to change channels since Oceanic controls the tuner setup (unless you pay $3/mo. for a "CableCard" that goes into the Series 3). Like I said, it's to Oceanic's benefit to make life hard for TiVo users.

I still love mine, though.
There are things I tape and then later edit down to suit my needs (mostly instructional; largely entertaining). If what I'm hearing is right, and I won't be able to take content off TiVo and edit it in a video editor on my laptop, TiVo is pretty close to useless for me. Is this right?Out of the box, yes. There are some pretty snazzy ways to do what you want to do, but none are official and are likely not legal (though they should be -- you're doing this for yourself, not file-sharing sites!). The same limitations exist on cable-company-provided DVRs, though, and actually their restrictions are more strict (since Oceanic is much more snuggly with Touchtone, say, than TiVo is).

Note that there are TiVo boxes with integrated DVD burners that, I think, burn regular DVDs, but again those are as-is, so you'd have to then take that DVD and reencode to do editing, which is a pain.

If you want total control of the media you record, the free MythTV setup is probably for you. But, you'll have to get comfortable with Linux and its media tools.

[Brad White]

You can record anything on your cable company DVR hard drive to its analog output. They have a menu choice for recording to "VCR"... in my case its my Panasonic DVD writer. Of course its not HD or a straight digital copy but for watching on a computer or DVD or Palm it very good. And while its recording you can still record two shows and play back another program. Not bad.

[mel]

It's been interesting following the messages in this thread. I have been convinced to get neither Tivo nor Oceanic DVR at this time. As long as we have analog cable and analog TV signals (to Feb. 17, 2009 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_television#Analog_switch-off)), I'll stick with what I have:

* Standard cable service - no cable box
* Standard TV - no HDTV
* Standard VCR

My newest device that I use for recording TV content into digital form is the Neuros Recorder 2 which I discussed at this post (http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showpost.php?p=102939&postcount=7).

I bought one a few months ago and have been happily saving lo-res analog to digital converted copies of programs ranging from Lost and Battlestar Galactica to shows I can simply "tape off" from my DVD collection.

Most are saved to low res 320 x 240 which works perfect on my Mac using Quicktime player. Files can also be transferred to iPods and PSP. I think there is a higher resolution option, but the files take up more space.

The thing I like best about the Neuros is the fact that there are no subscription fees whatsoever after you buy it. Of course you have to remember when your program comes on, tune into the correct channel and time to record it. But for something lo res and cheap ($129 online and recently seen at Shirokiya for $90), it is a good buy.

You save everything on a compact flash or memory stick card from the Neuros and transfer it to your computer's hard disc to edit or save to DVD or whatevers.

More on Neuros Recorder 2 (http://www.neurosaudio.com/store/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=DigitalInnovationsCatal og&product%5Fid=4030500&keyword=psp&searchcat=products%20&cookie%5Ftest=1).

There are no DRM issues to contend with using this device.

[Paul Ogata]

I used to love my TiVo. Then I moved to California and used the cable company's DVR. Now I love and miss my TiVo.

As easy as the DVR is to use, TiVo was easier to use, had better search functions and made some nice suggestions. After a couple of months of the DVR, I hooked the TiVo up in the bedroom. It ran fine for a few months, but then the hard drive failed.

Here's something cool: until the end of the year, if you have a TiVo lifetime subscription, you can transfer that over to a brand new Hi-Def TiVo. AND they'll still let you keep the subscription on your old box for a couple of months. Sounds like something I'd do, considering my TiVo doesn't work. That way I can still avoid the new monthly charges. Unless someone wants to buy it off of me for just such a purpose. (wink wink nudge nudge say no more)

[Brad White]

Isn't the new Tivo HD almost $800 and then you have to still pay for two HD cable cards per month.... that is a lot of money. The cable provided DVR may not have as many features but for $7 or so extra a month is a great deal. Plus when the hard drive breaks or a new model comes out you can just swap it. I wish the cable companies had licensed the Tivo system... I would even pay a bit extra for that choice.

[bueller555]

Replacing the Tivo drive was pretty simple. It just needed to be formatted correctly and installation was a breeze as long as you have correct screwdrivers. You need a couple of different torx heads (the star shaped ones) in order to remove the Tivo cover and stuff. The drive pops in and out easily. You can use any standard ATA drive, but there are a couple of drives out there that are designed specifically for PVRs. I went with the Maxtor, same that comes with the Tivo. Your lifetime subscription is chip encoded, so replacing the drive doesn't affect your lifetime subscription.

I looked at the upgrade offer, but $200 for the upgrade and $800 for the new Tivo. Yikes. :eek: That's rapid transit pricing.

[pzarquon]

TiVo ain't cheap, no doubt about it. Once again, some people are willing to pay for the refinements, some aren't. A DT Series 3 sounds great, but it costs a pretty penny, plus everything else you need (from CableCards to, you know, an HDTV display!). Considering the fact that people are still blowing five grand on the TV itself, though, it's all relative.

I sure wish I was rich, 'cause one thing TiVo is doing to entice us old-timers is allowing us to actually have lifetime subscriptions on the Series 3 (when otherwise, lifetime plans are no more). I went for the lifetime plan on our Series 2 and it's more than paid for itself.

We'll just slog along in Series 2 land. By the time the technology (analog cable and "standard" video) are wholly obsoleted, there'll probably be a Series 5 to lust after, plus hopefully a few consumer-ready (i.e. idiot proof) out-of-the-box open-source options like MythTV.

[i-hungry]

Do the HD recordings take up more disk space then a non-HD recording? I would think the HD video would require more. Assuming its the same high quality of course.

[GregLee]

I wish the cable companies had licensed the Tivo system...
Yes, or the TitanTV.com guide. But TWC is moving on this. Here's a thread on AVSforum discussing TWC's upcoming Cable Navigator, which promises to fix some of the shortcomings of the SARA software we now use on the 8300:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=723830

[Konaguy]

I wonder if TWC is going to replace the lousy digital cable television guide ?

[Creative-1]

I have two TV setups in the house, one with TiVo and one with Oceanic's DVR.

TiVo is FAR superior. It always recalls my place in watching a show, while the DVR, after 24 hours, has forgotten.

TiVo can jump in 15 minute increments through a long show, while the DVR's fast forward takes a long time to do so.

TiVo can search for key words, titles and actors and can automatically record them if found.

DVR's are dumb. You have to know the time and channel a program is on to record it.

My DVR also seems to "forget" to record programs I've programmed. I have to re-input the data. TiVo never has forgotten.

I got both to compare and Tivo, for my purposes, wins by a long shot. It's not even close.

[ArmyAnts]

Thanks for all the info folks. Don't know if this is useful but here goes. The fee on top of the regular dvr to get the hd dvr is 6.95? Has component and HDMI outputs, but the phone rep said the HDMI isn't supported.

[MixedPlateBroker]

Does anyone else who has an OTW dvr have to do a hard reboot at the beginning of each month? I find that this is the only way to allay the recording and tuning gremlins which would otherwise cripple my dvr. Oceanic tech support simply echoes my diagnosis (have already exchanged). And my SO's and mother's dvrs also seem to share this unfortunate syndrome. Livable. But I can't wait to build an HD HTPC once the 'ole budget allows.

[craigwatanabe]

I was at a friend's home and the question was asked if the hard drive content could be off loaded from his Oceanic DVR. I looked at the back of his DVR and noticed what looked like a SATA connector on the back.

So I'm thinking if you ran a SATA cable from the back of the DVR and into your computer's SATA plug on the motherboard, what would the BIOS identify this setup as?

[MixedPlateBroker]

The SATA port is for connecting an external hard drive for additional storage. Unfortunately, the proprietary file system employed by the dvr OS squelches any hope for lossless transfer of content. *sigh*