The corporate honi

[Pua'i Mana'o]

kudos to PBN for bringing it up in the first place, and rocks to da face for screwing up the article. That was the most anti-honi piece I have ever read.

Corporate honi, according to moi:

the point is not to kiss, as much as it is a cheek-butt of sorts. Culturally-speaking, women move into the men's space, and youth move into the kupuna's space. The embrace is more about the biceps clasping, instead of smearing chi-chi bags. End it with eye contact and a smile. And, if in the honi, the other person wants to embrace, chances are that s/he needs one, so take this humanitarian opportunity and embrace.

Honihoni,

PM

[lavagal]

Oh I don't know, I think Prabha did a fine job with this story. If anyone wants to see it, here's the link:

http://pacific.bizjournals.com/pacific/stories/2006/03/13/story2.html

I agree PBN gets credit for embracing the subject. Ours is an interesting place. Sometimes all you need to do is reach out and hold a hand for a second or two. I think being a mom of young kids taught me to keep my hands to myself. My kids get the sniffles every other week!

[pzarquon]

I thought it was a great article. Rocks to da face? I hardly think that's called for.

I'm such a dork, I'm already in awkward territory with the simple handshake -- what's "the local-style hand clasp and snap"? Or "the local-style thumb shake"? I'm just trying to avoid the limp fish thing, and still get thrown when someone's clearly expecting something a little more complex. What can I say, I'm simply unable to handle anything remotely cool.

Now everyone's hugging and "air kissing" and I'm completely lost. Show up for a conference, and in a throng of people, some of the folks want to shake, others want to hug, and others want to thump backs or high five or whatever. I stagger out of the group wondering if I've offended anyone or made a fool of myself or stepped on someone or "air kissed" wrong or heaven forbid ended up putting my hand someplace it shouldn't have been put.

The mixing of cultures and traditions doesn't make this unique to Hawaii, of course. When I was in New Zealand for a business meeting, there was a lot of consultation about when the nose rub was appropriate or not. It was actually more often called for the more formal the occasion or the more prominent the participant.

But I love that this article was written, whether or not it got the details exactly right or failed to expand on the protocols that, I guess, are no brainers to pros like Pua'i Mana'o. I certainly didn't think it was "anti-honi" at all -- just, "What is going on here? How does this work?" And obviously the writer wasn't the only one with those questions.

At least the conversation's happening, and others -- newcomers and visitors or local dorks like me -- can start figuring it out... and meanwhile feel a little better that we're not exactly alone in feeling lost.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

btw: "rocks to da face", as in Queen Malama's brother wailing in despair after his sister/wife died in the movie "Hawai'i". Despair, people, not rocks as weapons.

An article like this is important and timely today. Yet this one was so one-sided.

All the big fonts:
"Squirmy".
"…many still prefer the handshake".
"How to duck the hug or at least make the best of it"

Combing through the article:
…"say they don't like this new brand of creeping overfamiliarity". New?!?! 9/10 of it is trying to talk people out of doing it, and less than two friggin' paragraphs that attempt to identify where it comes from, but no history as to 'why'. Dicus' final word on the last page did more service to the issue than Natarajan's whole article did.

A better balance would have been the reverse: the article explaining why, how, history, ettiquette, tips, dos/don'ts and a little box intimating (and thereby humanizing) the malihini/befuddled kama'aina's issues.

[lavagal]

...A better balance would have been the reverse: the article explaining why, how, history, ettiquette, tips, dos/don'ts and a little box intimating (and thereby humanizing) the malihini/befuddled kama'aina's issues.

Hey! PBN hasn't got a world of space ya know! I'm gonna give you a big bear hug, a wet sloppy kiss a pat on the ass and say back off, PM! I couldn't even begin to give you a handshake, way too complex!

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Hey! PBN hasn't got a world of space ya know! I'm gonna give you a big bear hug, a wet sloppy kiss a pat on the ass and say back off, PM! I couldn't even begin to give you a handshake, way too complex!

and if I saw you in person, I would stare at ya in da eye, wrap you in my biceps and cheek butt you with aloha. And in my heart, I would wish you a beautiful day.

(and if I get my guns around dat writah, I would do da same!) :)

[Pua'i Mana'o]

on a side note, I would love for people to learn how to give/recieve the Corporate Honi™.
-it's really a right-side cheek/cheek press
-females reach in gently with her right arm bent, allowing discretion for each person's personal space, while her left hand wraps around the other's right shoulder for that chaste bit of aloha.
-smile in, smile out. Eye contact on the retreat.
-children honi adults in this same fashion; youth initiates honi to adults as a gesture of respect.

The honi is not a hug, but if it turns into one, the smaller/younger (unless a kupuna)/female of the two initiates it.

[WindwardOahuRN]

on a side note, I would love for people to learn how to give/recieve the Corporate Honi™.
-it's really a right-side cheek/cheek press
-females reach in gently with her right arm bent, allowing discretion for each person's personal space, while her left hand wraps around the other's right shoulder for that chaste bit of aloha.
-smile in, smile out. Eye contact on the retreat.
-children honi adults in this same fashion; youth initiates honi to adults as a gesture of respect.

The honi is not a hug, but if it turns into one, the smaller/younger (unless a kupuna)/female of the two initiates it.


Wow. There's actually a protocol? You just can't do the "I love you man" beer commercial slobber/smooch/hug?

I got a lot to learn. :)

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Wow.. You just can't do the "I love you man" beer commercial slobber/smooch/hug?


uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhno.

[scrivener]

As for the social cheek-press, I just hate it. I am not comfortable with it, and I wish people would stop assuming I want to get that close to them. Seriously. Call it cultural misunderstanding, call it social ineptitude, or call it some kind of psychosis, but I don't need it.
females reach in gently with her right arm bent, allowing discretion for each person's personal space
See, this just doesn't work for me, because that's already not respecting my personal space. Unless you want to buy me dinner and then give me a shirtless massage, please don't put your face on mine.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

I understand Scriv. The honi as a debate is not w/out merit. But as an entrenched cultural practice, no one escapes the possibility of having to honi/get honi-ed. Children, kupuna, and others all w/ the best intentions will want to share their mahalo and aloha and will do so through a honi.

As I give tips on how to honi, please share yours at how to deflect it w/ aplomb. Both are worthwhile skills to have.

[1stwahine]

As I give tips on how to honi, please share yours at how to deflect it w/ aplomb. Both are worthwhile skills to have.

I neva knew there was a proper way of giving honi!:confused:

When I give honi ~ it's always da same ~ from da heart!

I truly mean it each time!!!:D

Nobody has eva tried to pushed me away.

Auntie Lynn

[WindwardOahuRN]

I understand Scriv. The honi as a debate is not w/out merit. But as an entrenched cultural practice, no one escapes the possibility of having to honi/get honi-ed. Children, kupuna, and others all w/ the best intentions will want to share their mahalo and aloha and will do so through a honi.

As I give tips on how to honi, please share yours at how to deflect it w/ aplomb. Both are worthwhile skills to have.

I get kisses and hugs from the families of patients all the time. Kinda nice.

I wouldn't even think of trying to deflect those hugs and kisses.

[pzarquon]

Nobody has eva tried to pushed me away.Pshaw. Like anyone could, Lynn!

Besides. There's honi in the social, familiar, affectionate space, and there's honi in the corporate space. Call me a square, a closed-minded loser, whatever, but when I attend, say, a working meeting of auditors and accountants, I'm not expecting nor interested in contact with anyone's lips.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

I *know* I am not the only person who has given and recieved a honi in professional situations.

[scrivener]

I get them all the time, most often by parents of students, usually at the beginning or end of the year. Sometimes I get them from visiting alumni. Once in a LOOOOOOONG while, from colleagues, but only at super-special occasions, such as the end of the school year or maybe the Christmas party.

I can live with it if it's reserved for special occasions. I try to receive it in the spirit it's intended; when it's a parent, I know what the parent is really saying is that she appreciates what I've done for her kid, and there aren't a lot of ways to express the depths of emotion and gratitude these parents feel for me sometimes (I teach students who have experienced failure after failure, so graduation is a huge deal). I don't complain.

But let me ask you something. If it's completely nonsexual, why don't men do it to men? "Don't even be telling me 'bout no foot massage. I am the foot f-ing MASTA."

[mel]

I am not a touchy feely guy and prefer to keep a hands off policy with nearly everyone. A hands off policy keeps people away from possible legal liabilities.

BTW, this thread has been moved out of the "Print Media" section since it has nothing to do with "media" except the fact that the story was published a few months ago in a local publication.

[Mike_Lowery]

LMBAO...Ed Kubo gives honis? http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a90/thealmightymiranda/smileys/laugh.gif

[pzarquon]

But let me ask you something. If it's completely nonsexual, why don't men do it to men?Mitch, I've been struggling to resist giving you a peck on the cheek for years!

Just kidding. Seriously, this is a good point. The fact that a woman is basically a required element for a "corporate honi" is a good argument against such a thing.

Look. Affection and honi and all that makes sense in a lot of situations. I can see it between parents and teachers (as there's certainly a higher bond there), or nurses and patients and their families, or other circumstances where you're doing more than trading financial statements and business cards. But I can't see asserting that it should be encouraged or made as standard a part of corporate greetings as a handshake.

If it is special, treat it as such. I like our internal auditors, but I'm not giving that guy a smooch.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

I am not commenting on smooching, but on the honi, which I have seen men do to each other. Usually though it involves kupuna. My own husband embraces old men in this manner; Hawaiian, Japanese, Haole, all in a similar fashion, but the male version is more like a gentle cranial knocking than a cheek press.

[pzarquon]

I am not commenting on smooching, but on the honi, which I have seen men do to each other. Usually though it involves kupuna. My own husband embraces old men in this manner; Hawaiian, Japanese, Haole, all in a similar fashion, but the male version is more like a gentle cranial knocking than a cheek press.For kupuna, celebrations, community events, among family, close friends, sure. I didn't think we were talking about that. In your typical corporate environment? The "corporate honi" (or "corporate cranial knock") at the weekly staff meeting of an accounting firm, when a visiting attorney is greeted at the door? Again, I don't see it.

[Leo Lakio]

If it's completely nonsexual, why don't men do it to men?It is, and I do, but not in a corporate environment.

[1stwahine]

Pshaw. Like anyone could, Lynn!

heheheh.

Even if they tried. Ainokea. I still going give HONI to Mel, Scriv and anybody when I see dem!:p

Love and Aloha

Auntie Lynn