Overthrows

[Mahi Waina]

Just ordered 'Overthrows: A Century of Regime Changes from Hawaii to Iraq' by Stephen Kinzer from Amazon. I heard Kinzer on NPR discuss the common pattern in Hawaii, Cuba, etc. where a commercial interest precedes a military response, and the resulting dictatorship is invariably worse for both the victims of the new regimes, and the interests of the U.S.

[pzarquon]

Interesting. I missed the interview. Let us know what you think of the book.

Some local sovereighty groups regularly draw parallels between contemporary U.S. actions abroad and the overthrow of the Hawaiian kingdom, but it's not often analyzed as part of broader overall historical reviews by those not directly tied to Hawaii.

I don't know Kinzer's pedigree, but if he's a genuine "outsider," his perspective would be interesting to me.

Even moreso if he goes into greater depth than most, and analyzes how some Hawaiians and "local" leaders were involved in the general "Westernization" of Hawaii and even complicit in the events that led to Liliuokalani's ouster, just as some Iraqi elements were backing U.S. action... perhaps similarly driven by larger commercial interests.

In both Iraq's case and Hawaii's, it's a complicated story. So I hope we get more than lip service as a simple exhibit to prove a point about the war.

[Mahi Waina]

Stephen Kinzer has reported from over fifty countries for the New York Times, and has published several books, so I'm looking forward to reading what is likely to be a well-researched book.

[U'ilani]

Here's a link to the NPR interview if anyone's interested:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5325069

[Vanguard]

How was the book? Did you get a chance to read it? Did they have satisfactorily thorough chapters on Iran and Guatemala?

[Mahi Waina]

I did just finish reading it, and would highly recommend it. Along with some insight into the motivations of the participants, such as Dole, it also portrays their personality and character, making it interesting to read rather than dry and academic.

The chapter on Iran is an eye-opener, with direct repercussions to Iraq today. There are chapters on Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua, Grenada and Cuba that are interrelated and certainly demonstrate how greed, racism and ignorance, especially confusing nationalism with communism, have undermined our future in this hemisphere (think Venezuela.)

[timkona]

.....racism...have undermined our future

A book, with a political view that is agreed with, demonizes racism and folks respect the authors opinion.

Then you turn to other threads in this forum where racism is thrown about like confetti at a football game.

So what's it gonna be folks - Racism: good or bad?

Too funny. The level of cognitive dissonance that I see sometimes in this forum is just laughable.

[Leo Lakio]

The level of cognitive dissonance that I see sometimes in this forum is just laughable.Hey, Tim...I think you could have made your point without adding in the attack of the last line.

There's been a lot of this on HT lately, where people attack the posters with insults, rather than discussing the topic of the thread (and I will not claim to be innocent of the crime myself.) It drags the intellectual level of the discussion down very quickly, and I think we all need to do a better job of watching ourselves at it.

Admin has temporarily suspended some posters for this sort of behavior, and outright banned others. You are someone who can make instructive and informative postings, Tim, but you can also get downright nasty towards people, without prompting. I'm asking, just personally and respectfully, that you pay closer attention to the tone of some of your comments, and see if you can avoid the insulting aspects.

Of course - that also gives you the right to point out if I do it again! Thanks.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

.....racism...have undermined our future

A book, with a political view that is agreed with, demonizes racism and folks respect the authors opinion.

Then you turn to other threads in this forum where racism is thrown about like confetti at a football game.

So what's it gonna be folks - Racism: good or bad?

Too funny. The level of cognitive dissonance that I see sometimes in this forum is just laughable.

And yet there are a hell of a lot of examples were dissecting political, economic, ethnic, international, national, local, and indigenous issues here on this forum have been wrought without either a)succumbing to racist barbs or e)lowering levels of cognitive dissonance.

This complimentary piece of truth is applicable to those on both sides of the issue. Instead of laughing at each other, let's each focus on holding ourselves to high standards of community participation. After all, HT is a fantastic online community. :)

aloha, P

[Jonah K]

And yet there are a hell of a lot of examples were dissecting political, economic, ethnic, international, national, local, and indigenous issues here on this forum have been wrought without either a)succumbing to racist barbs or e)lowering levels of cognitive dissonance.

This complimentary piece of truth is applicable to those on both sides of the issue. Instead of laughing at each other, let's each focus on holding ourselves to high standards of community participation. After all, HT is a fantastic online community. :)

aloha, P
I agree. :cool:

[Pua'i Mana'o]

heeeey there good-looking! Aren't you a sight for sore eyes. ;)

[Jonah K]

heeeey there good-looking! Aren't you a sight for sore eyes. ;)
Aloha Pua'i,

I got tired of hunting coqui frogs that have the audacity to "chirp" during the day and decided that it was better to fire up the computer and check out the haps at HT instead. ;) I've yet to read the "Overthrows" book; however, it's next on my reading list after I finish "Broken Trust: Greed, Mismanagement & Political Manipulation at America's Largest Charitable Trust" by Samuel P. King and Randall W. Roth.

Jonah K

[timkona]

Well Leo....Point taken....touche.....But.......

You skillfully dodged the question....Racism: Good or Bad?

And Puai....lower levels of cognitive dissonance is a good thing.

To summarize - Racism is bad when used as a tool of global domination by imperialistic powers. Racism is good when selectively promoting individual or cultural agendas on a case by case basis.

But for the double standard, there would be no standards at all.

[Mahi Waina]

Just to clarify: The point made in the book was not that racism was used as a tool to dominate, but that it hampered the imperialists' ability to effectively understand and evaluate the situations they were trying to manipulate.

I see no cognitive dissonance in having contradictory views on racism in this forum. That's what forums are for!

[timkona]

Just to clarify: The point made in the book was not that racism was used as a tool to dominate, but that it hampered the imperialists' ability to effectively understand and evaluate the situations they were trying to manipulate.


Racism hampered "__________" ability to effectively understand and evaluate the situations they were trying to manipulate.

A) Imperialists
B) Hawaiians
C) Ku Klux Klan
D) Rodney King Rioters
E) Railroad Barons who, at first, resisted Chinese labor
F) Hitler

The author's point is well taken by an anti-racist like myself. When you choose to use racial criteria to separate people, you are traveling down a cognitively dissonant path. Racial behaviors almost always indicate a level of ignorance that mankind must escape from in the long run if we are to survive together.

From Affirmative Action to OHA, it is all the same to me.

[Miulang]

Forget racism; it's all about POLITICS. The politics of domination.

Miulang

[waioli kai]

'
timkona= .....racism...have undermined our future
A book, with a political view that is agreed with, demonizes racism and folks respect the authors opinion.
Then you turn to other threads in this forum where racism is thrown about like confetti at a football game.
So what's it gonna be folks - Racism: good or bad?
Too funny. The level of cognitive dissonance that I see sometimes in this forum is just laughable. =

--- racism also called racialism : any action, practice, or belief that reflects the racial worldview—the ideology that humans are divided into separate and exclusive biological entities called "races," that there is a causal link between inherited physical traits and traits of personality, intellect, morality, and other cultural behavioral features, and that some races are innately superior to others. --Encyclopædia Britannica ArticleIn the above defintion of racism , there is nothing that applies to those in and of Hawai'i whose indigeneous hertitage and center of being is Hawai'i: the "Northwestern Islands", Ni'ihau, Kaua'i, O'ahu, Maui, Moloka'i, Kaho'olawe, Lana'i, Hawai'i island.

Hawai'ian "racial worldview" ? Really?? Like there is held in Hawai'ians some deep-rooted imperialistic, indeed fascistic, drive to insist that European Anglo-Saxon/Jewish Christian-Americans, Japanese, Columbians, Indonesians, Southeast Asians, indeed the world, bow down to those in whom, in whose progeny, is manifested the evolution of the indigenous heritage of these islands? As opposed to manifesting the inherited wealth of the militant corportist, militant zionist state of USrael, USrael being the United States' 51st State: Israel, where religious preferencing is institutionalized, at United States' taxpayers ' expense?

Hawai'ian "racial worldview"? The Hayden Burgess cabal would have all believe that Hawai'ians are a people who have recently lived, who now live, who one day will be insisting to perpetuate Hawai'i through purity of bloodline, minimal contamination of their indigenous gene pool. Throughout the last two centuries, Hawai'ians have proven that they are only too happy, maybe too too happy too often, to diversify their gene pool. That's likely been the singlemost factor contributing to Hawai'ans survival through the inadvertent germ warfare-like past two centuries in Hawai'i.

Hawai'ians? A threatening "Ideology" ? Give me a break!! When the attorney Hayden, alias "Poka Laenui ", Burgesses Anti-Hawai'ian independence cabalUSt$ (http://www.angelfire.com/hi2/hawaiiansovereignty/AkakaNationalSummary109Cong.html), alias "activists", say "Aloha for All", they expose the inherent ignorance of the U.S. corporati$t ideology which manife$ts through them. Malicious ideologues can only have a world view that is driven by paranoia, espoused in unfounded, fear-mongering rhetoric.
--- Those who practice racism also hold that only low-status jobs should go to low-status races (African Americans and Indians in North America, blacks and Coloureds in South Africa) and that members of the economically and culturally dominant race alone should have access to privileges, political power, economic resources, high-status jobs, and unrestricted civil rights. The lived experience of racism for members of low-status races can include daily insults and frequent acts and verbal expressions of contempt and disrespect, all of which have profound effects on social relationships -- Encyclopædia Britannica Article
" There you go again !! Those damn Hawai'ians and their high-minded ways making us haole, US Americans do all the work . And for what? They get all the privileges, political power, economic resources, high-status jobs, and unrestricted civil rights. They insult US, they commit frequent acts and verbal expressions of contempt and disrespect on US, all these high-minded Hawai'ian ways have profound effects on social relationships among US. We need our Civil Rights Commission to protect US from the evils of racism, evils well known to US because the United States has long enabled when not otherwise manifested the evils of racism for the economic and political benefit of US." , say, in unison, the Burgess-minded 'activists', reactionists.

[timkona]

members of the economically and culturally dominant race alone should have access to privileges,

Maybe it should be that only members of the economically and culturally submissive race should be given special considerations or entitlements? Or is that what we have now?

Or perhaps maybe we should eliminate all reference to race in society?

[Leo Lakio]

Or perhaps maybe we should eliminate all reference to race in society?But how - realistically, how could this be accomplished?

I know that you would prefer that programs designed to give special dispensation, compensation or benefits to "culturally submissive" groups be eliminated, but most of those programs were (as you know) developed to compensate for generations of imbalance.

As a member of the dominant class (white males), I think you can still understand why those who are NOT of that group would have problems with you saying "okay, the counters are reset to zero, tabula rasa, the past is irrelevant; all that matters is from today forward - no special programs for anyone."

Unless you can find a way to guarantee that everyone can progress from the exact same starting line, how can race-based social safety nets be eliminated?

[timkona]

Your right Leo. Everybody should start from the same starting line. Perhaps all men are NOT created equal?

If we require that everyone have the same starting line, perhaps we should also require that everyone apply themselves to the task equally. But if you require a person to perform 18 hours a day as I sometimes do, and they are not up to the task mentally, then is that the point where you give them some entitlement that you won't give to me? I never got any scholarships, grants, SBA loans, or assistance of any kind along the way. Is it better to make it on your own, or have a dependency mentality that presupposes your inability to make it? Sounds to me like a lot of this is wrapped in self esteem issues.

It's all liberal horse manure in my opinion. And I'm not gonna be politically correct on this one.

[Leo Lakio]

Your right Leo. Everybody should start from the same starting line. Perhaps all men are NOT created equal?

If we require that everyone have the same starting line, perhaps we should also require that everyone apply themselves to the task equally. But if you require a person to perform 18 hours a day as I sometimes do, and they are not up to the task mentally, then is that the point where you give them some entitlement that you won't give to me? I never got any scholarships, grants, SBA loans, or assistance of any kind along the way. Is it better to make it on your own, or have a dependency mentality that presupposes your inability to make it? Sounds to me like a lot of this is wrapped in self esteem issues.

It's all liberal horse manure in my opinion. And I'm not gonna be politically correct on this one.Thank you, Tim, but as you are fond of pointing out - you avoided answering my question. Instead, you posed a scenario with questions of its own.

[sinjin]

As a member of the dominant class (white males), I think you can still understand why those who are NOT of that group would have problems with you saying "okay, the counters are reset to zero, tabula rasa, the past is irrelevant; all that matters is from today forward - no special programs for anyone.

Exactly right. You have to own the history of your own people. If that history has given others "self esteem issues" then you must work to lift them up again.

[timkona]

Nobody can give somebody else self esteem issues. It comes from within. Self-confidence is a trait that comes from a given individual's level of initiative.

History is written by the survivors. Man's conquest of Man is the summary of the history of the world.

When the Lion ate the Zebra, do you think he felt sorry, or sated?

Darwin nailed it. Funny how a liberal will espouse Darwin's theories and villify religion. But when it comes to somebody's inability to accomplish life, libs first instinct is to say "You can't make it on your own, that's why you need me". Entitlements don't exist in nature. Just more examples of liberal cognitive dissonance.

[Leo Lakio]

liberal horse manure
a liberal will
libs first instinct
more examples of liberal cognitive dissonance

You really need to find a second note on that piano, Tim - your tune is getting old. Rather than answering questions posed to you, you continue to spin your own scenarios, avoid the questions, and resort to name-calling and generalizations.

[sinjin]

Nobody can give somebody else self esteem issues.
I'm astounded you can believe such a thing. V-8 brain indeed.

[Paul]

Unless I'm mistaken, I also see that Timkona is a firm believer in Social Darwinism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Darwinism), the fittest man will survive. This was not actually something Darwin himself believed. It is something others, the nazis among them, twisted his theories into. It's funny how he reviles racists and nazis yet has views similar to them.

[Jonah K]

Unless I'm mistaken, I also see that Timkona is a firm believer in Social Darwinism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Darwinism), the fittest man will survive. This was not actually something Darwin himself believed. It is something others, the nazis among them, twisted his theories into. It's funny how he reviles racists and nazis yet has views similar to them.
It's just an example of "cognitive dissonance".... :D Of course, I'd like to see how this relates to the "politics of NO." ;)

[timkona]

Well Leo, try to sing along.

For 30+ years, liberal cognitive dissonance has been parading through society like a drunken sailor on shore leave. There are examples of cognitive dissonance on the conservative side of politics also. So don't get me wrong. I'm an equal opportunity offender. I simply do NOT sit idly by while others make a show of their ignorance or their illogical belief systems that are rife with mutually exclusive thought patterns, which is the root of cognitive dissonance. IMHO, it is also the reason why Dems have so little time accumulated sitting in the White House for the last 30-40 years.

It is noteworthy that you, Leo, are seldom in my crosshairs. I attribute that to your high level of intelligence, which is why I always think we would have fun together, sipping ice cold adult beverages.

I will continue to use the term cognitive dissonance when I see the opportunity.

How is racism related to social darwinism, unless you make the assumption that some races are naturally superior to others? So much for "all men created equal".

Have you read "The Bell Curve"?

[sinjin]

How is racism related to social darwinism, unless you make the assumption that some races are naturally superior to others?
Social and economic advantage gained through historical subjugation of other races. That's how.

[Leo Lakio]

It is noteworthy that you, Leo, are seldom in my crosshairs. I attribute that to your high level of intelligence, which is why I always think we would have fun together, sipping ice cold adult beverages.In my best singing voice: very kind of you to make that attribution - I hope it is also because I will make an effort to NOT fall into name-calling or insulting posts (though I apologize for having done so some time ago.)

I don't know that we could call it "fun," but at least I hope our conversations would be respectful and intelligent, as we try to have them here on HT. More likely, I'd be inclined (in person) to just stay off the topics where we know we will be in constant disagreement. I think I'd have to do the same with many other regular posters here, as there are a number of clever, creative and wise folks whose politics are far to the right of my own. Instead, it would be "fun" to find the areas where we share common ground.

Getting back to answering a couple of your questions - I've not read "The Bell Curve," thank you for the suggestion. Also, regarding "racism - good or bad" - help me out with your personal definition of racism; not the dictionary's, but your own. Then, I will try to answer; thanks.

[timkona]

To me, racism exists anytime you start to categorize people based on origin, ethnicity, skin color, etc. As practiced in Hawaii, racism is rampant.

I don't mind if you give financial entitlements to an economic class, and it just so happens that most are of a certain color. But you can't base the decisions on the color.

I am not very good at racism. I was taught the benefit of "merit" as a defining criteria in humanity.

Racism and Social Darwinism are not similar. Social Darwinism embraces the notion that all men are created equal. Some make better choices than others along the way.

As a side note, I visited the Hawaiian Center at the King Kam Hotel yesterday. During the conversation, the ladies there were lamenting the lack of opportunity in Hawaii for people born here. I noted that it seems to me an advantage to be born here, especially from a business point of view, through contacts and networking. They said that's not the case. So I said "Are you saying being born here is a 'disadvantage'?" They stumbled on their cognitive dissonance while I smiled.

[Miulang]

As a side note, I visited the Hawaiian Center at the King Kam Hotel yesterday. During the conversation, the ladies there were lamenting the lack of opportunity in Hawaii for people born here. I noted that it seems to me an advantage to be born here, especially from a business point of view, through contacts and networking. They said that's not the case. So I said "Are you saying being born here is a 'disadvantage'?" They stumbled on their cognitive dissonance while I smiled.
I don't see why you think you are superior to those women just because they couldn't give you an answer you thought was worthy and articulate. If they believe that it's a disadvantage to be born in Hawai'i, then that's their perception, based on THEIR lives, not yours. If you're allowed to speak your perceptions, then let others have their own, without trying to judge them. :p And it's the King KAMEHAMEHA Hotel, not "King Kam" if you want to respect the people and the land who welcomed you to their island.

Miulang

[waioli kai]

Paul= - "It's funny how he reviles racists and nazis yet has views similar to them."--

He/she is of the same unholy fabric as "compassionate conservative"; "We, US, care so much about our children, whom We put in private schools, that We are going to tell all of America, including Hawaii and Hawai'ians how to run their public schools; leave no child behind and don't bitch when We cut education funds to you so as to better feed Our insatiable 'US Defense' Monster"; "We'll tell you what kamehameha schools can and cannot do"; "We'll decide who is to be represented by 0ffice of hawai'ian affairs, if indeed 0ha should even exist seeing as how 0ha is, but for US restraints, a racist (http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showthread.php?p=77115#post77115) entity"; "America!! Hallelujah !! Love US or Leave US !.! you've been warned"; " 'God Bless US All', and may He send the rest of Humanity to Hell, on the end of one Our missiles, preferably"

Our, the United States', the World's unholy fabric, full of holes and increasingly in want of misguided souls seeking shelter/security, immunity, under its bigotry, hypocrisy, wasteful indulgence and utterly wanton (http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/wanton) facilities of reason and human compassion, this unholy web of fibroUS strands leaves no one unaffected. Through its holes is plainly seen East Sudan, Somalia, Congo, Palestine and more not deemed worth cultivation, utilization or occupation by justUS, and allies of justUS.

[sinjin]

...it just so happens that most are of a certain color.
It just so happens? You must be joking.

I do salute your work ethic Tim and I'm sure there are many things we aren't far apart on.

[waioli kai]

.timkona= -"As practiced in Hawaii, racism is rampant."

"As practiced in Hawaii...?" Racism-free Los Angeles, Houston, Miami, Boise, Cinncinnati, Philidelphia, Chicago, New York just put Hawaii to shame, yes?

Or, is it that WASPS find Hawaii to be the only state where, so far, they're just a minority among minorities. Every ethnicity in Hawai'i celebrates or otherwise honors their race and culture except for European-Americans who on the whole just think of themselves as "white". What is "white" culture? Shop-til-u-drop? Strip malls? nascar track drink-a-thons? excessive-wealth-worship? idolatry? beauty pagents? warfare? celebrity worship? golf? divorce? The truth is US "whites" don't have culture, which is why many white haole in Hawai'i are so appreciative of Hawai'ian culture.

The inclusive nature of Hawai'ian culture is the essence of Aloha. Aloha is not forced. Aloha cannot be demanded, bought or sold. Without mutual respect, without mutual security, without recognition and appreciation of the hosts ,these islands Hawai'i and those evolving from native islanders and their culture, without a just and hopeful future for Hawai'ians, it is most unfounded (http://www.aloha4all.org/essentials.aspx) to believe that Aloha can or should be an unconditional state of the Hawai'ian mind.

timkona= - "I am not very good at racism. I was taught the benefit of "merit" as a defining criteria in humanity."-- Well then meritocracy must be your kind of government, unless you are suffering a spell of that 'cognitive dissonance' about which, unlike 'racism', you claim to be such an expert at diagnosing.

Meritocracy is a system of government based on rule by ability (merit) rather than by wealth or social position. If rule by wealth and social position does not define at least the most recent century of U.S. history, then nothing will. However, leave it to those who most benefit from rule by wealth and social position to claim that merit is not defined by the power elite simply to legitimize a system in which social status is actually determined by class, birth, and wealth. Nothing dissonate about that, is there?

timkona= -"Social Darwinism embraces the notion that all men are created equal." --Nothing like inventing definitions! That is exactly what Social Darwinism is not.

timkona= - "Racism and Social Darwinism are not similar." --Historically, proponents of Social Darwinism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Darwinism) often used the theory to justify social inequality as being meritocratic, and it has also been used to justify racism and imperialism, in a cultural application of Herbert Spencer's idea of the "survival of the fittest."

social Darwinism (http://www.britannica.com/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=Social%20Darwinism&query=Social%20Darwinism)
: an extension of Darwinism to social phenomena; specifically : a sociological theory that sociocultural advance is the product of intergroup conflict and competition and the socially elite classes (as those possessing wealth and power) possess biological superiority in the struggle for existence

patriarchy: hypothetical social system based on the absolute authority of the father or an elderly male over the family group. Inspired by the classical social Darwinism of the 19th century, the pioneering anthropologists Lewis Henry Morgan and Henry Maine envisioned cultures as having developed through evolutionary stages, one of which was patriarchy: that all status or relationship in the earliest societies derived from a patriarchal kinship system and that all decisions of social consequence were the arbitrary judgments of a quasi-tyrannical patriarch. Encyclopædia Britannica Article

The theory Social Darwinism was used to support laissez-faire capitalism and political conservatism. Class stratification was justified on the basis of “natural” inequalities among individuals, for the control of property was said to be a correlate of superior and inherent moral attributes such as industriousness, temperance, and frugality. Attempts to reform society through state intervention or other means would, therefore, interfere with natural processes; unrestricted competition and defense of the status quo were in accord with biological selection. The poor were the “unfit” and should not be aided; in the struggle for existence, wealth was a sign of success. Encyclopædia Britannica Article (all ___ and italics added, w k)

dissonance (http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showthread.php?postid=77489#post77489) == Lack of agreement, consistency

[Leo Lakio]

To me, racism exists anytime you start to categorize people based on origin, ethnicity, skin color, etc.

OK, thank you. Your definition of racism is a very pure one, and as such, I can't really call it either "good" or "bad"; in fact, I think it's rather unavoidable. Human beings are prone to categorize, sort, and try to organize the world by a variety of means. We can't help but notice aspects of the people we see and meet - the color of their skin, their approximate age, how they dress, the way they speak, their gender, the length of their hair, physical diabilities, the scent of their breath, etc. - and we make automatic and instinctive judgements based on our life experiences to date.

Example, based on skin color: where I went to junior high school (not in Hawai`i), the racial mix was about 40% African-American, 50% Caucasian, 10% a variety of others (Latino & Asian-American, mostly.) As a scrawny white kid, I got beaten up a few times by black kids. Today, many years beyond, do those incidences trigger fear when I see a black person (whom I do not personally know?)

Maybe, just a slight memory twinge, deep down inside, yes. By your definition, is that racism, because I am categorizing an individual simply by their skin color? Yes, I believe you would say that it is. Is it "bad" or "good"? In and of itself, I don't think you could say that it is either one.

Now, what I choose to DO, based on that inner twinge, could be classified as "bad" - say, if I go punch them, because I believe they would otherwise beat me up - or if I mutter or shout an offensive epithet - or if I somehow influence my employers to never hire African-Americans.

But what if, during those school days, I became close friends with some of those same kids who beat me up? If I went to their homes, met their families, learned about the abuses they suffered simply as a result of their skin color? As a result, perhaps I chose to participate in a civil-rights march, or contributed money to the NAACP - behavior that might be classified as "good," though would still fit your definition of racism.

So I'll try to sum it up, and I hope you will consider this as an answer to your earlier question of "Racism - good or bad?" Using your definition quoted above, I would have to say "racism," in and of itself, is neither good NOR bad, but your personal behavior based on said categorization can be either. I do not see that as cognitive dissonance.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

a funny thing about that term "skin color".

I have always thought it an Americanism that never translated well here. We are all sorts of beige on this side of the planet. Hawai'i's classist issues lie more on language and manners than any other, followed by one's "nationalities" (the term I grew up hearing/used). Meaning, three local Japanese boys would enjoy having two Haole (http://hawaiithreads.com/showpost.php?p=59724&postcount=177) boys to make up their nifty team of Five Rangers if they all speak similarly (pidgin or standard English; country boys and townie boys do talk differently).

Commonality will bind us, because we are island people and we need to take care of each other, not vote people off the island (or tossed off the pali).

[Leo Lakio]

a funny thing about that term "skin color".
I have always thought it an Americanism that never translated well here. We are all sorts of beige on this side of the planet.Nice perspective - mahalo.