Cable Modem v. DSL [Archive] - HawaiiThreads.com

pzarquon

May 29th, 2004, 08:10 PM

Mocha asked (http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showthread.php?t=707): "BTW is there any difference between RR & DSL? The DSL seems cheaper now, and now our area can get it."

I'd be curious about other people's experiences. We recently switched from Oceanic RoadRunner to Verizon DSL, and have few regrets.

We switched primarily because of the price. It got to the point where Oceanic was getting $100/mo. out of us. We "dumped" them a bit by downgrading back to basic cable from digital (praise TiVo!), and by going with DSL instead of their cable modem service.

Besides a better price, DSL to me seems more stable. My mother has RoadRunner, and she lives in Mililani, and that's Oceanic's backyard. But she can go hours, usually in the prime time evenings, with nothing but a sadly blinking box and no service.

Cable modem also seems more sensitive to "system load" -- wicked fast at 2 a.m., sure, but if you're surfing the web at the same time as all your neighbors, it comes down to a crawl.

Finally, although it may just be propaganda, I always felt DSL connections represented a more secure option than RoadRunner. I remember when RoadRunner was first rolled out, and Microsoft was only just starting to patch the swiss cheese that is their OS. I clicked on "My Network" on my mom's PC, and saw little icons for every single one of my neighbors! Of course I couldn't browse their systems, but I'm sure someone who really wanted to probably could.

Downsides? Well, one. When there is a problem, I have to mess with Verizon on the mainland, and a maze of automated this and that for customer service. Oceanic is always just a call to someone in Mililani.

Still, saving, what, at least $150/year for internet service and spending less time waiting or cursing? I think it's worth it.

Mocha

May 30th, 2004, 01:04 AM

Thanks Pzarquon for the answer to the question...I'll discuss the situation with the gang here. :)

adrian

May 30th, 2004, 06:38 AM

The one reason I go w/ DSL, is that the bandwidth isn't shared w/ everyone else who is in the neighborhood surfing at the same time w/ you. I have some cousins who live down the street from me, who also has DSL and usually w/ cable, when someone else is on the connection, it'll slow down.

But for some reason, when I leave the connection on for a while, it'll go "blank", and I'll have to "reset the connection" (disable it, then reenable it from the computer).

So far, since my family's been w/ Verizon DSL, we haven't seen any problems (got a seperate router and I made the cables).

dick

June 8th, 2004, 12:51 AM

I've been DSL the whole way, and it's never let me down. I hear horror stories all the time about cable...

Tako Poke

June 8th, 2004, 01:44 PM

I've been DSL the whole way, and it's never let me down. I hear horror stories all the time about cable...
I live in Kaneohe and I'm very happy with my DSL. I had problems early on. But the technician reseated a card at the CO and I haven't lost connection since. Well, except for the few times when I accidentally moved my DSL modem around. That was my fault.

DaFerret

June 8th, 2004, 02:20 PM

Anything "hi-speed" is welcomed for me. Dial-up is painful.

But anyhoo, back to topic, I always had a thing for DSL because it was a dedicated connection, no "used" bandwidth here and I would most likely have a landline phone rather than cable since I rarely watch tv. I thought they also gave you a static IP address so you could host your own server, but I think someone told me it's dynamic? My only concern is about the distance from one of the stations. Does it really degrade your connection the further you are from one of those repeaters?

Palolo lolo

June 8th, 2004, 04:14 PM

Another positive vote for Verizon DSL. I've never had a problem in a year!!

Linkmeister

June 27th, 2004, 08:07 AM

I just installed a D-Link Ethernet card (http://www.dlink.com/), and it was a bit of a struggle. Drivers were installed in several different folders, and the default search looked for a Win98 CD-Rom. I (hopefully) eventually got it DSL-ready; guess I'll find out when I get the Verizon modem today or tomorrow.

Who's using what as a firewall?

Meisenzahl

June 27th, 2004, 06:45 PM

Yes, in Hawaii the DSL quality of service is not so hot from what my friends at Upena Systems have told me. Cable seems to be the way to go and much better quality of service. Outside Hawaii it is a bit different, but I think it is a matter of since most folks already have cable, getting the cable data service is pretty straight forward, whereas I am not so sure about getting DSL. DSL is limited to the physical distance from you to the CO or Central Office of the phone company. The further away you are from the CO, the poorer the quality of service, in some cases.

pzarquon

June 27th, 2004, 08:20 PM

Obviously YMMV. I know Verizon brought a number of new 'nodes' online a couple of months ago to improve their service in rural areas. DSL deployment is not as widespread as cable, so Oceanic has the advantage there. It's not hard to test if you can get DSL, though (Verizon has an online utility to check your number), and if you can, then both have the advantage of having lines already running into your house.

But we just moved to Mililani, and repeated what we did in town and dropped cable for DSL, and my mom has already commented that it's not "out" as much. I have no idea which was faster, but DSL is definitely more consistent. Odd, since we're in Mililani (Oceanic's HQ), but there you go.

Linkmeister, good luck with your DSL install. With that and your Ethernet card, I suppose you can see how the fact that you install it yourself can be a plus or minus!

Whatever you do, kill the Verizon installer after it's done with the "real work" and prepares to put MSN on your PC. You don't need that junk!

As for firewalls, Adri's already nabbed the question for a new thread (http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showthread.php?t=1273).

pzarquon

June 29th, 2004, 06:44 PM

Just a quick note... if you use Oceanic RoadRunner, and you love Oceanic RoadRunner, but hate overpaying for Oceanic RoadRunner, just cancel.

Really! Call them and say you want to cancel your service, as you're moving to DSL.

We made our cancellation official this week, and we've been called no fewer than three times by Oceanic, trying to talk us into sticking with them. The final offer was to match Verizon's DSL price -- $29.95/month -- forever.

Tempting, but I like DSL better. But if you don't, save yourself some money!

Mocha

June 30th, 2004, 11:52 AM

Wow if you call RR and tell them you're switching to DSL they'll match the price eventually...that's good! I'd mentioned that they nickle and dime you with RR...tax the tax! I'll have to rethink...again. :p

Linkmeister

July 8th, 2004, 05:25 PM

adrian

July 8th, 2004, 07:34 PM

easTTriver

July 9th, 2004, 08:58 AM

Ok, I got my Verizon DSL modem and installed it today, and it works fine. But when I install my DLink router it doesn't work at all. I think it has something to do with the Point-to-Point configuration, but I'm not sure. Anyone got any ideas?

point-to-point for a lan refers to connections between two points within no intermediary node. more than likely PPP is used between two routers. i am not sure how this plays for a home network. what makes you think it is a problem with PPP?

pzarquon

July 9th, 2004, 09:10 AM

I don't get the PPP thing either. Some ISPs don't play well with routers/hubs because of various goofy things they do with IPs and protocols, but Verizon never struck me as one of them. Whether my old D-Link or my current Linksys, things were pretty much plug in, power up, and go!

Try starting with everything off. Plug the power cord back into the DSL modem, and let it get a steady signal (watch the light). Then plug the power back into the router/hub, and let it connect to the modem (I think there should be a WAN light). Finally, turn on your PC and let it connect to the router (you should see one of the PC LEDs on the router come on).

If that doesn't work, release and renew your IP/DNS lease. On a Windows 95/98/ME machine, I think that's clicking "Run..." from the Windows Start menu and typing "winipcfg (http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;141698)" (without the quotes). You get easy buttons to release and renew. On a Windows NT/2K/XP machine, you type "command" to get the trusty MSDOS-like window. Then, use the "ipconfig (http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/windows/xp/all/proddocs/en-us/ipconfig.mspx)" command. Instead of buttons, you have to type in commands, like "ipconfig /release" and "ipconfig /renew" (typing "ipconfig /all" will list all the current settings, and might be helpful to troubleshoot if you still have problems).

Hang in there... it's worth it! For what it's worth, I found the cable modem to be more wonky with a hub than the DSL modem.

Overall, Verizon is seriously putting some firepower into its battle with cable. Whatever you use these days, we all win.

Linkmeister

July 9th, 2004, 09:30 AM

point-to-point for a lan refers to connections between two points within no intermediary node. more than likely PPP is used between two routers. i am not sure how this plays for a home network. what makes you think it is a problem with PPP?

Well, what makes me think that is that when I go into the "status" section of the D-link setup I get a phrase which says the PPPoE is disconnected. I click the "connect" button and it just sits at "connecting."

Also, the D-link setup instructions say you should disable WinPoet and any other similar programs, and during the Verizon setup it installed WinPoet, as I learned by doing a "Find" command.

pzarquon

July 9th, 2004, 10:26 AM

Wow. I had no idea Verizon did the PPPoE/WinPoet thing (it was a problem with AOL, IIRC, and maybe old GTE setups). I swear, there's no such mysterious setup on my PC -- as far as I know, I have a plain TCP/IP connection via the DSL modem.

I presume you're past your "live date" on your line? It couldn't hurt to call Verizon and ensure someone flipped the switch.

Here's one columnist's frustrating experience with the PPPoE thing (http://www.nwfusion.com/columnists/2001/00306928.html). I don't know what to say. (You didn't install their "MSN Experience" stuff, right? I wonder if the PPPoe/WinPoet stuff is hidden in there?)

Linkmeister

July 9th, 2004, 10:36 AM

I don't know what to say. (You didn't install their "MSN Experience" stuff, right? I wonder if the PPPoe/WinPoet stuff is hidden in there?)

Nope. For one thing, it told me my 333mhz processor was too slow to run it. ;)

And I'm definitely past the service date, or I couldn't be typing this on the 'Net right now. The Ethernet light on the DSL Modem is lit, and the load speed for web pages is much quicker. I'm puzzled by why I can't access some pages that I used to be able to get to via dialup, but that's a later issue.

Linkmeister

July 9th, 2004, 01:21 PM

Oh for cryin' out loud. I thought I'd try updating the firmware, and so I restarted the whole installation and did that. Lo and behold, it seems to work.

Thanks for all the suggestions, folks. Now has anyone got a clue why certain websites (they're clean, I promise!) are inaccessible? Somebody with Verizon DSL go try this blog (http://www.washingtonmonthly.com) and see if it works for you, willya?

adrian

July 9th, 2004, 07:03 PM

Somebody with Verizon DSL go try this blog (http://www.washingtonmonthly.com) and see if it works for you, willya?
http://img27.photobucket.com/albums/v81/adri1456/Pics7-9-2004-19.jpg

Nope, it doesn't work for me (using Verizon DSL) w/ linksys router.

Linkmeister

July 9th, 2004, 07:45 PM

Well, that's very strange, but somewhat reassuring at the same time. It's a damned monthly magazine. It hasn't suddenly gone out of business. So I wonder if something is going on with Verizon connections to that IP or something. It's the only site of all my usual ones that I have had trouble seeing since the switch to DSL. I could always get to it (slowly) with dialup.

Thanks. Anyone else, feel free to try; it would be interesting to see if others can get through to it.

Glen Miyashiro

July 9th, 2004, 09:30 PM

I'm on Road Runner, and I can't get to that site either.

Linkmeister

July 9th, 2004, 09:36 PM

Fascinating. Thanks, Glen. I think I'll fire off an e-mail to them, although somebody's able to read him, since one of his posts showed up today on the DCCC's clip (http://blog.dccc.org/) they send to blogs.

Huh. Thanks again. Everybody who feels like it, keep trying. Let's see how bad this is. ;)

Linkmeister

July 10th, 2004, 08:24 AM

Mystery solved, for those who care. It was a DNS problem at their end. Thanks for the attempts, folks; it made me feel better knowing that some weird setting in the h/w setup for DSL didn't block me from things. ;)

malia

July 16th, 2004, 02:01 AM

I have been trying to decide between the two because with all the publishing I do from home for my students' websites, I spend hours online, and I always get the frustrated remarks from people the next day "I spent all night trying to call you, and your line was busy!"

Just before school was let out this year, Oceanic passed around a flyer advertising a "package" for Road Runner & Digital...all for just under $100. :mad: Like I can afford that, on a teacher's salary!!! :rolleyes:

So I was looking into Verizon's offer of $29.95 a month. However, when I called, they couldn't help me with the setup I wanted. See, I have both a PC and a Mac at home that I would want to connect, and the Linksys router they send for wireless connections is not Mac-compatible.

Well, I was at CompUSA yesterday and I saw that they actually had routers that were both PC & Mac compatible. So I asked a salesman about if it would work with Verison's DSL service and instead got a non-answer as he went on to criticize my having a Macintosh in the first place. (He compared it to the Beta VCRs...the NERVE! :p hehe)

Anyway...you guys are much more friendlier than that associate so I'm hoping maybe someone here could answer that? I have an old PC (Compaq) that I inherited from my dad when he got his new one, and a G4 laptop. I use the laptop like 95% of the time...I only really use the PC to print or scan, since I don't have either for my Mac. So the Mac would be the primary thing I would want to be online with, since I do all my webstuff on there. However, when I see things online I need to print...I'll go on with the PC, so I would like the PC to have a connection too. Is there a way to perhaps get the DSL through my PC, buy one of those PC/Mac routers instead of Verizon's one, and then be able to access the DSL with my Mac?

And now that I think about it...would AirPort work with a PC modem for DSL? I do have an AirPort sitting here doing nothing. (It's not compatible with my ISP, so I can't use it for wireless now...unless I want to subscribe to AOL or something.)

Anyway...any kind of answer or suggestion would be extremely helpful. :)

Thanks!

pzarquon

July 16th, 2004, 06:28 AM

Obviously, one of your mistakes was going to CompUSA. :) They sell Mac stuff, but not well, and with Apple running their own retail outlet two miles away, you can imagine why they might not try very hard to make you happy.

I'm no longer a Mac expert, so I'm sure someone here can give you better information (Mel?), but I find it odd that they say their wireless router is not Mac compatible. Don't all wireless devices speak the same flavor of 802.11b? Besides, I didn't know Verizon sent you a wireless router... I figured they offered a $99 rebate on certain routers you buy yourself up front. I would hope at least one of those eligible routers would work with a Mac.

And if not? Well, 802.11b wireless routers that are both Mac & PC compatible should work just fine, and they don't cost even $99 anymore. Rebate or no rebate, you could get one at CompUSA without a salesperson's help.

Besides, WiFi isn't the only way to go with your Mac (although having an Airport lying around unused is a tragedy!). Does your Mac have a plain vanilla Ethernet jack? You might be able to hook up your Mac the "old fashioned" wired way, since I thought things like DHCP and TCP/IP were standard protocols.

Remember, Oceanic technically charges you extra for having more than one PC on the line (although they can't really tell, and folks set up hubs/routers all the time). Even without that add-on charge, it's more expensive, and less consistent in terms of speed (between 7-10 p.m., surfing's much slower going than at 2 a.m.). And you'd still have to buy some kind of router...

Linkmeister

July 16th, 2004, 07:20 AM

I bought the D-Link 604 (shown on this page (http://www.dlink.com/products/category.asp?cid=38)); the items on the page are all Mac-compatible, and I know for a fact that the 604 is PC-compatible, since I'm using it.

You can find some of these at Amazon if not at CompUSA, I'm sure.

malia

July 18th, 2004, 10:10 AM

Thanks, Ryan and Link!

I didn't even think that the rebate could have been for any router, not just the one that Verizon provides! Duh! Although I did assume that since this one was not Mac-compatible, that maybe they all aren't. It wasn't until I was wandering around CompUSA the other day that I figured it out. :rolleyes:

Here (http://www22.verizon.com/forhomedsl/channels/dsl/micro/homenetworking/advisor.asp) is the page I was looking at on Verizon's site that says, "Our wireless home network does not support Macintosh." It also said it here (http://www22.verizon.com/forhomedsl/channels/dsl/micro/homenetworking/sysreq.asp) and here (http://www22.verizon.com/forhomedsl/channels/dsl/micro/homenetworking/pricing.asp). The salesperson I talked to confirmed this. However, I had no idea to ask about other routers! hehe, thanks for letting me know! :) Now I can go get the clearance router I found for $39.99 at CompUSA! Woohoo!

My laptop does have an ethernet port, and that's fine with me if I can't do it wireless (I'm used to it since I'm tied to my phone line for my ISP). Would I just connect it to this and then when I want to connect it to the PC, unplug it from here and then plug it into the PC? And then switch back afterwards? That'd be fine with me too. (A lot less complicated then what I have to do to get digital pictures from my PC camera on to my Mac! hehe ;))

Watch I go through all of this and they tell me they can't service me! hehe (this happened to my sister--though she "pre-qualified" through the website check of phone number, and got the modem sent and hooked up and everything, the day that she was supposed to go live, she got an email saying sorry, you don't have the correct line.) Oh well!

Thanks again for your help! :)

Linkmeister

July 18th, 2004, 11:33 AM

Would I just connect it to this and then when I want to connect it to the PC, unplug it from here and then plug it into the PC? And then switch back afterwards? That'd be fine with me too.

I see no reason why that wouldn't work for Ethernet. I have two phone lines, one for home and one for work. For three years I've been switching the phone cords from jack-to-jack depending on which line I was gonna use for dial-up all day, and I never had any trouble (except maybe wear and tear on the plugs or jacks), so seems like you ought to be able to do the same thing.

On the other hand, of course, you're getting into networking, and the configs on the Mac and PC may get fussy; I just don't know.

Linkmeister

July 18th, 2004, 07:16 PM

On the other hand, of course, you're getting into networking, and the configs on the Mac and PC may get fussy; I just don't know.

It suddenly strikes me that if you've got a router and ethernet ports on each machine, you shouldn't need to unplug a thing. Just plug one machine into port 1 on the router and the other on port 2, and you should be able to do what you want just fine.

I'm pretty sure I'm right, but I'm willing to be proven wrong. With this new machine I'm thinking about, that was my plan; just plug the new one into the 4-port router with an Ethernet cable.

helen

July 18th, 2004, 07:22 PM

Linkmeister

July 18th, 2004, 07:29 PM

It depends if the Macintosh and the PC are set to static IP addressing. If it is then both system might have the same IP address. If so then you can only have one system active at a time.

On the other hand if both systems have DCHP enabled (dynamic IP addressing) and the router is set to do that then yes both systems can be on at the same time.

My router for the Verizon DSL is dynamic. Verizon made no mention that I recall of static IP addressing; they certainly didn't give me an address to use for the setup.

Thanks, Helen.

helen

July 18th, 2004, 07:46 PM

The key is with the router. Depending on the make of the router, there are settings that deal with the network setup from your ISP (which is also your public IP settings or WAN). And there are settings that deal with the network setup the LAN which is where the PC and/or Macs would be connected to.

Konaguy

August 2nd, 2004, 06:38 PM

I dropped Road Runner a few months ago and got Verizon DSL. Thus far
I have been very happy with DSL. Even though it is half as fast as Road Runner
paying approx 15.00 less a month is a plus. On a unrelated note since Hawaii
is a ex-GTE area Verizon uses DHCP not PPPoE here.

Linkmeister

August 2nd, 2004, 08:12 PM

Well, today I got my first Verizon bill with DSL, and it's a mess. All the charges appear to be accurate, but because of the mid-month start it's got partial bills for dial-up, partial for DSL, next month's DSL, a couple of FUSF charges (which I gather are some sort of arbitrary fee/subsidy for rural service or something), and S&H for the DSL modem.

Long/short: $100

It'll be nice to see it next month when it's down to a simple couple of transactions. :D

Konaguy

August 2nd, 2004, 08:24 PM

a couple of FUSF charges (which I gather are some sort of arbitrary fee/subsidy for rural service or something),

My bill looked kinda funky too when I got the 29.95 rate locked in June
for my Verizon DSL. Anyway the FUSF is Universal Service Fee is to
fund enhanced telecom services in rural areas [Locally USF funds are
repaying USDA RUS loans being used to build Sandwich Isles Communications
network].

To give you the short answer the FCC doesn't require telecom providers
to assess the fee. Verizon is just recovering the costs assessed on them
by the Universal Service Fund.

http://www.universalservice.org/faqs/

cezanne

August 10th, 2004, 03:53 PM

How long does it take from placing an order to actually getting Verizon DSL?

Hehe... I called Oceanic about a digital cable matter then I mentioned something about Verizon DSL, that I was thinking of saving some money and switching over. He was cool and told me about how RR was better and all but he would help me out if money was an issue. I didn't get the "$29.95 forever" deal but he did offer $10 off for the next 6 months.

Linkmeister

August 10th, 2004, 04:07 PM

About 10 business days, as I recall. They didn't have any DSL modems here (maybe they never do; who knows?) so it had to be shipped from the East Coast via UPS. I was pretty funny; I'd been stalling on getting DSL for months, so when I finally did I was checking the progress of the package via its tracking number about twice a day. :D

Konaguy

August 10th, 2004, 06:02 PM

I looked at my paperwork. I ordered Verizon DSL on 4/20/04. The circuit
live date was 4/28/04. The modem etc arrived 3-4 days after I ordered DSL.
In reality the circuit was turned on 4/26/04 because when they were provisioning my DSL they mis configured the DSLAM. Starting on the Monday
until the 4/25/04 the phone line was unusable.Lots of bleeding on the line.
As it turned out they misconfigured the ports.

pzarquon

August 10th, 2004, 09:32 PM

Konaguy

August 11th, 2004, 07:26 PM

I've set up DSL three times, and each time, we got the modem before the "live date," which turned out to be pretty frustrating, in that good way. :) I hear you about the line noise, though. It wasn't an issue at our apartment, but here in Mililani, we definitely needed to use those included filters to make our other phones and my fax machine functional again.
Well the funny thing was our phone line was working fine. Then the Monday before the live date our phone line was unuseable. I spent two days talking
to Verizon to resolve it. As it turned out they screwed up the DSLAM settings
when they were building my DSL circuit on our phone line.The upshot I got DSL two days early