Billboards?

[dick]

http://starbulletin.com/2006/04/25/business/story02.html

In that story, there's a note about how the Wave Waikiki wave mural was painted over due to complaints from the Outdoor Circle about how it was a "billboard."

While I have a fair amount of respect for the Outdoor Circle and all that that they do, this was a travesty.

Where were they when Wyland was painting all of his murals all over town? Completely garish non-art swill, painted to the Nth power at 17 stories... of course, his name is written very largely on all of these "pieces." That, to me, constitutes a billboard. Those sickening "whaling walls" are, in fact, advertisements for Wyland's so-called "art."

How this slipped through the cracks, I know not... but it has bothered me for years....

[kimo55]

good point. Must be wyland and da soikle are "in bed togeddah"

[Menehune Man]

http://starbulletin.com/2006/04/25/business/story02.html

In that story, there's a note about how the Wave Waikiki wave mural was painted over due to complaints from the Outdoor Circle about how it was a "billboard."

While I have a fair amount of respect for the Outdoor Circle and all that that they do, this was a travesty.

Where were they when Wyland was painting all of his murals all over town? Completely garish non-art swill, painted to the Nth power at 17 stories... of course, his name is written very largely on all of these "pieces." That, to me, constitutes a billboard. Those sickening "whaling walls" are, in fact, advertisements for Wyland's so-called "art."

How this slipped through the cracks, I know not... but it has bothered me for years....


Personally I like Wyland's paintings, but you are correct they do constitute a billboard of sorts. The "Wave" 's painting was no worse and then they were allowed to paint the abstract colored coconut tree scene. Interesting, eh?!

[p0id0g]

i wonder how the outdoor circle has so much time on their hands to go after people like the wave. there's a big difference between "billboards" that have been attacked by the outdoor circle and others -- such as the wave waikiki, the Dave & Buster's sign, and the Macy's sign at Kahala Mall -- and REAL billboards, like the hideous ones that can be found all over the mainland.

things wouldn't be so bad if the buildings in honolulu didn't look so drab to begin with.

[Glen Miyashiro]

i wonder how the outdoor circle has so much time on their hands to go after people like the wave.Historically, the Outdoor Circle started out as a group of wives of rich men. So yeah, they did have some time on their hands. :D

there's a big difference between "billboards" that have been attacked by the outdoor circle and others -- such as the wave waikiki, the Dave & Buster's sign, and the Macy's sign at Kahala Mall -- and REAL billboards, like the hideous ones that can be found all over the mainland.The question is, where do you draw that line.

things wouldn't be so bad if the buildings in honolulu didn't look so drab to begin with.Huh? Explain. What "things" do you mean that are so bad now? And what is it that makes Honolulu's buildings "drab"?

[Pua'i Mana'o]

http://starbulletin.com/2006/04/25/business/story02.html

In that story, there's a note about how the Wave Waikiki wave mural was painted over due to complaints from the Outdoor Circle about how it was a "billboard."

While I have a fair amount of respect for the Outdoor Circle and all that that they do, this was a travesty.

Where were they when Wyland was painting all of his murals all over town? Completely garish non-art swill, painted to the Nth power at 17 stories... of course, his name is written very largely on all of these "pieces." That, to me, constitutes a billboard. Those sickening "whaling walls" are, in fact, advertisements for Wyland's so-called "art."

How this slipped through the cracks, I know not... but it has bothered me for years....

Fie on Wyland, Larsen, and all those other evil arteests whose seascapes make me wanna grab for the wesson and my wok and fry da buggas til crispy!

[pzarquon]

I'm not a fan of Wyland, either, so I think the comparison between that "art" and the art of The Wave Waikiki's old mural is a fair one. One could also comfortably say that The Wave's "wave" mural was hardly as huge a commercial asset to the club as Wyland's giant paintings were to his global sales of marine art. It is hard to draw a line in some cases, and I agree with Dick that The Outdoor Circle erred in its call against The Wave. A matter which, of course, is moot now.

I also found the whole 'soda machine' situation a bit entertaining. Though I admit, I do like a prefer flag or waterfall scene to a giant Pepsi logo.

But I also generally support The Outdoor Circle and am thankful both for its oft-credited basic accomplishment of keeping conventional billboards out of Hawaii, and for its efforts to fight visual blights in general.

For example, I'm glad they've at least raised the question (http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051123/NEWS01/511230334/1001/NEWS) about those AdWalls, ostensibly limited to "indoor" spaces but frequently not, and about how aggressive advertising should be limited in public places and spaces (i.e. government buildings), even if there's a door, gate, or roof. They're also not fans of the explosion of campaign signs at election time, nor mobile or aerial advertising, all things I also agree with.

Like the ACLU, or any other advocacy group, they have their "duh" moments. But overall, I'm glad they're there.

By the way, speaking of mobile advertising... those trucks that are designed to carry ads are annoying (the whole pro-life truck thing is a whole separate issue and argument in itself), but I find it funny that those rotating-ad trucks are a problem when there are also huge tractor trailers lumber along our streets with ten-foot tall Big Macs or teak entertainment centers plastered on the side.

As for "drab" buildings, p0id0g, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Sure, we have a heap of buildings that are devoid of any visual appeal, basically bunkers built to get the most space for the least expense. On the other hand, attempts to make "interesting looking" buildings are often also met with derision and protest. The Waikiki Landmark, or Harbor Court, or many other new buildings are hardly "drab," but the jury's still out on whether that's a good thing or not!

[Palolo Joe]

By the way, speaking of mobile advertising... those trucks that are designed to carry ads are annoying (the whole pro-life truck thing is a whole separate issue and argument in itself), but I find it funny that those rotating-ad trucks are a problem when there are also huge tractor trailers lumber along our streets with ten-foot tall Big Macs or teak entertainment centers plastered on the side.
I think it's more hypocritical than funny... how can they get pissy about those rotating-ad trucks at all? And if they do, shouldn't they be crusading to get every commercial vehicle on the road painted over? Not just those beer and soda trucks, but UPS and FedEx trucks, etc. too?

I'm not saying we should have billboards on the side of the road here like there are on the mainland, but come on. Why can't The Bus have ads on the sides of its vehicles? Why can't taxis have ads on their roofs, like they do on the mainland?

[dick]

I'm not saying we should have billboards on the side of the road here like there are on the mainland, but come on. Why can't The Bus have ads on the sides of its vehicles? Why can't taxis have ads on their roofs, like they do on the mainland?

I do find it odd that a Polynesian Cultural Center bus can have the entire bus covered in a giant ad for the place, but TheBus can't have any ads attached.

It's great that the Outdoor Circle has championed a billboard-free Hawaii, and for that I am thankful, but I just wish they would be more even with the signs they go after.

Also, as for the Wyland things, I really think they are eyesores. This goes along with some of those strange paintings on the sides of the storage buildings along Kapiolani Blvd. One can be seen when approaching Ward, heading in the Ewa direction. The other is near Piikoi, or Pensacola, same side of the building.

At least the name of the "artist" should be rendered very small. Perhaps a plaque at the foot of the building, or something.

[Miulang]

We have a "Whaling wall" up here...it's a very large painting of a breaching orca (killer whale) on the side of a Seattle City light power plant. It's actually very tastefully done, and you can't really see his signature anywhere on it because of the size of the painting. I think the City of Seattle probably commissioned Wyland to paint it. Everytime I see it, I have to smile because of the Hawai'i connection.

Miulang

[craigwatanabe]

Yeah me too imagine that Naked Whales on the side of buildings :eek: If it's gotta be naked keep it Human :D

The problem with the Wave Waikiki was that the wave that was painted was the monicker for the establishment so it was accurately defined as a billboard.

Personally I don't mind ads as long as they are done in good taste. The Wave mural was done in good taste. The Inspiration ads on the sides of the delivery trucks with that obviously underaged female sitting head on wearing provacative clothing and make up was a bit tasteless however and to me denoted mild child porn.

As far as drab buildings...Honolulu's Muni building, The twin Hoover Vacuum cleaners better known as One Waterfront Towers, The bizzare Nauru towers that look half completed, and all the two and three story walk up apartments that dot Kapiolani Blvd between Date and Waialae Avenue.

[kimo55]

The problem with the Wave Waikiki was that the wave that was painted was the monicker for the establishment so it was accurately defined as a billboard.
but was a japanese wave!

[craigwatanabe]

but was a japanese wave!

Eh no get racial on me! But den it shoulda been called Tsunami's! :D

[kimo55]

Eh no get racial on me! But den it shoulda been called Tsunami's! :D
wot. wasn't a japanese wave?

[tutusue]

Eh no get racial on me! But den it shoulda been called Tsunami's! :D
Tsunami's is now Beaches! Had lunch there yesterday! Oh wait...different place!

[Pomai]

Eh no get racial on me! But den it shoulda been called Tsunami's! :Dwot. wasn't a japanese wave?Well, here's an ironic twist on that...

There's a fairly new sports bar on Kuhio Ave. across the Waikiki Trade Center named TSUNAMI'S (http://www.tsunamiswaikiki.com/) . Naturally, their sign in front incorporates "wave art". But the style looks more like something that came out of a California surf shop than from Japanese woodblock art (see it at that link). Go figure.

[helen]

I do find it odd that a Polynesian Cultural Center bus can have the entire bus covered in a giant ad for the place, but TheBus can't have any ads attached.
Well there are ads inside of TheBus, plus given how much they charge (http://www.thebus.org/AboutTheBus/PaidAdvertising.asp) for those cards inside TheBus, it might cost way much more to put an ad outside of TheBus, not to mention the time it will take to put all those banners on over 500 buses.

[kimo55]

so.
wasn't da wave waikiki a japanese art style wave?

[kimo55]

Well there are ads inside of TheBus, plus given how much they charge (http://www.thebus.org/AboutTheBus/PaidAdvertising.asp) for those cards inside TheBus,
yea and boy are they illiterate!
saw one a week ago:


"There's books, music, slam poetry.
Not to mention cuisine by top chefs... at the Honolulu Book and Music festival.
In association with "Literacy Hawaii"

Hawwwhawhawwwrrrruugmph!

[Pomai]

so.
wasn't da wave waikiki a japanese art style wave?You mean this one (http://sg.yimg.com/xp/lplanet/americas/usa/honolulu/thumb_image3.jpg). Yes, it's Japanese woodblock print. I remember that style well from the children's story book MOMOTARO (http://www.islandheritage.com/multimedia/childrens_books/island_heritage_classics.html) which we read in elementary school.

Remember SkySign? They used a helicopter that towed a HUGE 8'x36' electronic scrolling banner sign. Looks like the Outdoor Circle played a part in getting them grounded (http://starbulletin.com/2005/11/22/news/story02.html) as well. I could just imagine how many "Will You Marry Me?" and "I Love You!" 'advertisements' would have been sent up on that thing. :p

It'd be kinda' neat if they brought a Good Year Blimp here to Honolulu. At least for one major event such as a proposed Aloha Stadium SuperBowl.

[tutusue]

Well, here's an ironic twist on that...

There's a fairly new sports bar on Kuhio Ave. across the Waikiki Trade Center named TSUNAMI'S (http://www.tsunamiswaikiki.com/) . [...]
Interesting! I wonder if it's the same people who owned the old Tsunami's on the Waianae Coast (Maili). The 2 seem to have a similar entertainment theme. It closed or changed hands last year (iirc) and is now called Beaches. I can't recall whether or not the old Tsunami's had any exterior wave graphics.

[kimo55]

. I can't recall whether or not the old Tsunami's had any exterior wave graphics.
no. Just an artist's interpretation of a wiped out seaside village.

[Pomai]

Interesting! I wonder if it's the same people who owned the old Tsunami's on the Waianae Coast (Maili). The 2 seem to have a similar entertainment theme. It closed or changed hands last year (iirc) and is now called Beaches.

Tutusue, you said you just had lunch there at Beaches. So how was it? What kinda' food? Prices? Ambiance? Service?

I've passed by that place several times when they were Tsunami's with great curiosity, but never bothered to go in and try it.

I really love those oceanfront wooden "tavern" style restaurants (like the Shack HK!)

After you answer that I'll resume back to topic. Thanks!

[tutusue]

Tutusue, you said you just had lunch there at Beaches. So how was it? What kinda' food? Prices? Ambiance? Service?

I've passed by that place several times when they were Tsunami's with great curiosity, but never bothered to go in and try it.

I really love those oceanfront wooden "tavern" style restaurants (like the Shack HK!)

After you answer that I'll resume back to topic. Thanks!
That restaurant has morphed so many times since I've lived in that neighborhood (14 years) and I'm not entirely sure why. Money seems logical but the space continues to be a restaurant...the ambiance and decor stay the same, very casual, a bit rustic...the food and, for the most part, the menu have remained the same; standard 'tavern' type food! Dunno about dinner, tho'. The only difference I personally see is that there's a pool table where there wasn't one 14 years ago! Beaches was basically empty when my friend and I got there a little after 1p. We had a great waitress, Mary Jo. The ocean view is, of course, dynamite. The food isn't 5 star fare but, then, that's not expected! It's in the $$ price range. I think it's more of a night time hang out for the locals, esp. the bar. I didn't check to see what kind of entertainment they offer, if any. Years ago they had live Hawaiian music which was perfect for that spot. That gave way to karaoke over 10 years ago. I rarely eat out when I'm home but I do like Beaches as I did it's other incarnations.

No Wyland murals in Waianae...that I'm aware of!! :D

[Pomai]

Mahalo Tutu! I'm still unclear whether you recommend Beaches or not, but I'll give it a try anyway and have lunch there on my next drive to the west coast.

Speaking of the Waianae Coast and Billboards... folks who live along Farrington Hwy. sure aren't shy about showing their political support during election season. I swear half the campaign signage produced by candidates during election season are posted along fences of homes on the west coast. I've even seen a few homes that were supporting competing party candidates on the same property fence. :eek:

[tutusue]

Mahalo Tutu! I'm still unclear whether you recommend Beaches or not, but I'll give it a try anyway and have lunch there on my next drive to the west coast.

Speaking of the Waianae Coast and Billboards... folks who live along Farrington Hwy. sure aren't shy about showing their political support during election season. I swear half the campaign signage produced by candidates during election season are posted along fences of homes on the west coast. I've even seen a few homes that were supporting competing party candidates on the same property fence. :eek:
The political signage always amazes me especially since, last I heard, the Waianae Coast has the lowest voter turnout on Oahu!!! Well, no wonder...no one can figure out who to vote for! They're too busy hanging campaign signs for every candidate! :rolleyes:

I like Beaches, Pomai. It's also the only restaurant of it's kind along the coast! Be sure to give it a try.

[p0id0g]

would anyone consider the rainbow on the side of the rainbow tower at the hilton to be a billboard?

[pzarquon]

Heh. Versus the wave on "The Wave"? Art versus ad? I don't think either is/was a violation of the billboard law. And with the Rainbow Tower, the rainbow tile mural was (I imagine) an integral part of the building from the beginning, as it was probably considered a landmark before it was even built. And it's not like it's part of the "Rainbow Hawaiian Village."

Like I said, between Wyland murals, soda machines, truck panels, questions of "free speech" versus political or commercial speech, and the like, there's no easy line to draw. Why go after a small ad truck but not a semi container with a ten-foot Big Mac? Who knows.

(Though at least the other trucks with ads are serving a business function, whereas the only reason the otherwise empty ad truck is on the road is to advertise. Same argument was used against Sky Signs when they pointed at the logos on the sides of Hawaiian or FedEx jets.)

Some things should be targeted but are, other targets make no sense. Overall, though, I think the agressive law and its watchdogs are a good thing for Hawaii.

[dick]

would anyone consider the rainbow on the side of the rainbow tower at the hilton to be a billboard?

Perhaps if it were a grotesque rendering of Conrad Hilton...

... but it needs to be done by Wyland...

...does he do tile mosaics?

>>>
Got this from the Hilton Web site (hiltonhawaiianvillage.com/ media/documents/History_000.rtf):

1968
Rainbow Tower® opens with the world’s largest ceramic-tile mosaic spanning 286 feet high by 26 feet wide on each end of the tower. More than 16,000 colorful tiles are used to complete the mosaic.
<<<

[pzarquon]

Ah, what timing. Bob Loy, Director of Environmental Programs for The Outdoor Circle, just sent out this update:We are extremely pleased to report that the State Legislature has passed HB2708, The Outdoor Circles legislation to control mobile advertising in Hawaii. It now goes to the Governor for her signature.

The final version of the bill prohibits mobile advertising vehicles, which includes trucks, cars, trailers etc, whose primary purpose is to display advertising. The bill will not prohibit other forms of mobile advertising such as banners or signs on trolleys and buses. Nor will it prevent advertising on The Bus or the proposed Oahu Transit System. We will have to consider future action to deal with those inappropriate forms of advertising.

For now however, please join us in rejoicing over this great victory for the visual environment of our beloved islands. This legislation stops the mobile advertising industry at our shores.Are "banners or signs on trolleys and buses" inappropriate? How about, say, versus marketing images (not third-party ads) on the sides of commercial vehicles?

Gotta ask Bob to come over and join the conversation.

[Palolo Joe]

I hope Gov. Lingle will veto this bill.

And if I read it right, the OC is in fact trying to get rid of any and all advertising on anything that moves.

Mobile advertising isn't always inappropriate.

There's gotta be a free speech issue in here somewhere.

[pzarquon]

Maybe, though lines are traditionally drawn between speech, commercial speech, and political speech, as well as time, place and manner caveats.

I agree that TOC's definition of what's inappropriate is unreasonably broad, and can be incosistently applied.

It's messy. For example, I guess if I as an individual expressed a pro-choice message on my van, it'd be okay. If I paid an ad truck to carry the same message, it's a problem. Different things would come into play if the message instead backed Bob for Governor. Or promoted Lisa's catering.

I don't like the idea of ad-only trucks because it means a vehicle on the road at peak traffic times that doesn't need to be there. But a law? I dunno.

[scrivener]

A few responses.

First, that Hokusai-inspired wave at The Wave was cool, and I think calling it a billboard is going a bit far. A great letter-to-the-editor in the wake of the wall's painting-over asked, "If the Wave had changed its name to The Wall, would it have to paint a wave on the wall?"

Second, there was ALL KINDS of fuss made about Wyland's wall down near Ala Moana when it was first going up. People DID call it a billboard. I say it probably was, especially if that thing at the Wave was a billboard.

I agree with Palolo Joe about the mobile ads. If they're going to be made illegal, okay. Fine. But make the McDonald's trucks illegal, too. Forget about "primary purpose." The billboard laws have nothing to do with purpose and everything to do with beautification. What if I drive an ad-truck and only drive it when I'm actually on my way somewhere, or if I'm cruising? Why is cruising Kalakaua Avenue a less legitimate "purpose" for being in my vehicle (regardless of the time of day) than delivering cold-packs of Budweiser?

As for advertising on buses: There's got to be a better way. I've been to those other cities where the city buses have ads on them, and I can't stand them. It's often a depressing-enough experience to ride public transportation; to add the humiliation of climbing onto a mobile Lipitor ad is inhumane. Please. I know it's an advertising-driving economy we live in, and if we want stuff to be cheap or free, we'll have to put up with ads (our own HT as an example), but there must be a way to generate needed revenue without these bus-ads. Otherwise, we might as well allow billboards.

[pzarquon]

Lose your puppy? Having a garage sale? Hosting a birthday party for your kid, or a neighborhood dance party? Well, the Outdoor Circle -- once again demonstrating an enviable excess of time and energy -- is coming after you (http://starbulletin.com/2006/08/01/editorial/commentary.html). With billboards, campaign signs, ad trucks, and other evil scourges largely drubbed out of existence, the fliers you tack onto telephone poles are next in their crosshairs.

They correctly save their strongest threats against commercial interests that actually pay people (i.e. kids) to plaster a neighborhood, and do note some real safety issues, in addition to litter and visual blight. But still.

Here's Doug White's rant on the Outdoor Circle's latest campaign (http://poinography.com/index.php?p=3042).However if you’re a sign poster and are of the mindset that no good deed should go unpunished, then you might consider making up and posting a separate batch of signs that read, “Does this sign bother you? If so, call the Outdoor Circle at 593-0300 to join an organization where you will meet like-minded people and may purchase a ticket to attend the first annual Outdoor Circle Gripe-a-thon on July 28, 2006.” Then report those signs to the authorities… and encourage criminal prosecution.Reminds me of sneaky campaign workers who'd actually move other candidates' signs onto sidewalks or public property, just to get 'em busted.

[kimo55]

the advantages reaped by one garage sale by the seller, of a few bucks i don't think justifies the visual blight we are subject to, along with the litter caused by their garage sale signage that remains askew on telephone poles and littering our streets and sidewalks.
people tack em up all over the place and after their sale is over, do they retreive their unwanted trash? nope.

[pzarquon]

Well, we use sturdy garage sale signage, and most definitely retrieve them as we close down. In fact, several of our neighbors have borrowed our signs for their own sales, and all of them come back (though one was abandoned near the H-2 offramp for a couple of days).

I used to think that they weren't that big a deal, and that a listing in the paper or elsewhere was just as good... but having now conducted tests of sorts, I can pretty emphatically state that lots, and probably most, of the traffic a garage sale gets is from neighborhood signage. (Which explains why our signs, which are durable and a little unique, are in hot demand.) I guess bargain hunters just aimlessly drive around the suburbs on weekends!

One thing I agree with the Circle's latest complaint on is the charge that commercial posters are much worse than your average party-throwing resident. If your neighbor is smart, he'll take down his signs... but club promoters prefer it if their crap lingers for months, better if it becomes practically permanent after a few weeks in the sun...

[kimo55]

what i see as blight also are these big signs held up by people standing on the sidewalk next to roads.
ug a lee.

[pzarquon]

Well, there's political sign waving (http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showthread.php?t=9658), and there's the growing practice of commercial sandwich boarding -- sending some poor peon out, often dressed in a ridiculous mascot costume, to mug for traffic to sell mattresses, fruit smoothies, used cars, and the like. Both have their critics, but I think the latter is far more troubling than the former. Election-year sign waving is pretty entrenched in local politics... and certainly worthy of its own discussion (http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showthread.php?t=9658). ;)

[kimo55]

i like da dude. (or chickee) who puts on that ol sweaty heavy shell of a Moose costume and stands there on Kalakaua at lewers passing out Moose mcGilliguddy flyers. I feel fer them. but it's their choice. boy they sure earn their beer when they get back!