No Shoyu,Milk or Rice

[alohabear]

In a recent Honolulu Weekly Magazine (http://honoluluweekly.com/cover/story-continued/2006/04/no-shoyu-no-milk-no-bread-no-rice-2) ,Sue Kiyabu went a week without the basics in the local diet. The ma'ona food blog said
The conclusions from the article are what you might expect. All-local, all-organic in Hawaii is really hard. Many staples aren't available locally because the economics of land use make it far cheaper to ship foods from 2400+ miles than to grow them right in our own valleys. Ms. Kibayu trial period for eating locally lasted one week, but during that time she discovered that there are options available when we're willing to hunt for them, and that there is value in the hunt.
By the end of the week, I knew I could incorporate more sustainable, locally grown items into my eating regimen... It took some work, it was not convenient, but it did expand my sense of community." - Sue Kiyabu

It seems like a interesting experiment, but I for one would find it hard too. Because of the reasons above and because I like to eat.

HT .... How do you think you would do, eating totally "local"?

[timkona]

Would be easy to do without rice or milk....both are killers in the long run. As for shoyu, who needs it?

Isnt it interesting that humans are the only species that never wean their young off milk? Can you imagine a bull walking up to a cow for a sip of milk?

[pzarquon]

Isnt it interesting that humans are the only species that never wean their young off milk?We're the only species to do a lot of things. Forget weaning (which humans do, at least off human milk)... the fact that we consume the milk of other species (cow, goat) is more unusual to me. :p

I didn't pick up the Weekly, but saw the cover. So, the reason for excluding shoyu, milk and rice was because they're staples here, and not for any nutritional reason? It's not a fad diet, but an experiment in eating local? Interesting. Local restauranteurs could also tell you the challenges of "supporting local farmers." They'd do it more, if they could, but the balance between what the food industry needs and what Hawaii folks can practically produce is a tough one.

Sustainability is a noble goal to work toward, and I can definitely see how worrisome it is for an island archipelago -- or, for that matter, a thriving, developed nation -- to get almost all of its food from outside. Hey, you never know when the apocolypse is nigh. On the other hand, some regions and nations have the capacity (or ability) to produce more food per spot of land than others.

In the global view, it makes sense to me that places with varying resources exchange what they've got for what they need with other places, rather than expecting every community be able to produce just enough of everything for just themselves.

Rice is a staple all over the world, so of course it's a staple here. I don't even know if rice will grow here, but even if it would, I doubt it would make sense given limited space and water. Why not import it, if we can?

[Glen Miyashiro]

I didn't pick up the Weekly, but saw the cover. So, the reason for excluding shoyu, milk and rice was because they're staples here, and not for any nutritional reason?Not quite. The idea was, eat only things that have been grown within a 100-mile radius of where you live, although Kiyabu fudged the distance a bit to allow for Big Island produce.

Sustainability is a noble goal to work toward, and I can definitely see how worrisome it is for an island archipelago -- or, for that matter, a thriving, developed nation -- to get almost all of its food from outside. Hey, you never know when the apocolypse is nigh. On the other hand, some regions and nations have the capacity (or ability) to produce more food per spot of land than others.When the End of Life As We Know It comes, those of us who survive may be back to kalo, ʻuala, ʻulu, and fish. :p

Rice is a staple all over the world, so of course it's a staple here. I don't even know if rice will grow here, but even if it would, I doubt it would make sense given limited space and water. Why not import it, if we can?Kiyabu makes an interesting point that a hundred years ago there was plenty of locally grown rice but these days it has indeed all given way to overseas imports.

[Pongs]

I wish the author said more about what she actually was able to eat that week. "steamed bok choy" yumm?... :rolleyes:

It's so surprising to find out where your food actually comes from!
Even tho NY is known as the big apple, most of the apples there actually come from Washington

[alohabear]

Local(grown) foods just don't have the variety. I like the fact that the foods I love come from all around the world.

[Palolo Joe]

Would be easy to do without rice or milk....both are killers in the long run.
How is rice a killer in the long run?

[Miulang]

How is rice a killer in the long run?
White rice has more carbs and calories, and very little nutritional value compared to brown rice. Orher rice factoids here (http://r0.unctad.org/infocomm/anglais/rice/quality.htm).

The ubiquitous "2 scoop rice" on most plate lunches is the equivalent of 2 c. of white rice (http://www.kallipolis.com/diet/food.php?id=20053), which is close to 500 calories. Then you add in the mac salad and the teriyaki or whatever, and you end up with a very high caloric meal.

If you can't stand the taste of brown rice, either use half brown rice and half white rice or use Thai Jasmine or basmati rice, which have fewer calories and carbs and are more flavorful. It's the California grown short grain "sticky style" rice that creates the problem.

Miulang

P.S. the problem with trying to eat local these days is that unless you actually live on a farm, getting everything you need is going to be tough unless you're willing to take the time (and often the extra cost) to seek these things out. Much of the farmland all over the world is being overtaken by development, which means the source of your food is farther and farther away. I doubt there will ever come a time again when people will be able to eat 100% locally, but every time you buy Manoa lettuce or a Kula onion, or a Hilo papaya, you are buying local and helping the farmers and the 'aina.

[Pedro]

Miulang

P.S. the problem with trying to eat local these days is that unless you actually live on a farm, getting everything you need is going to be tough unless you're willing to take the time (and often the extra cost) to seek these things out. Much of the farmland all over the world is being overtaken by development, which means the source of your food is farther and farther away. I doubt there will ever come a time again when people will be able to eat 100% locally, but every time you buy Manoa lettuce or a Kula onion, or a Hilo papaya, you are buying local and helping the farmers and the 'aina.[/QUOTE]

So your saying that when I go to a hawaiian party all the food except poi and hopefully fish will be imports? Ah man that would suck! :D

[Miulang]

So your saying that when I go to a hawaiian party all the food except poi and hopefully fish will be imports? Ah man that would suck! :D

Unless you live on Moloka'i or Niihau, that's probably true. Sad, yeah? :( Even for stuff like haupia...where does the coconut milk come from? Cans from the Philippines or Thailand. Where does the sugar come from? Maybe the sugar started out in Hawai'i, but it was sent to California to be processed and packed. Maybe you can find Hawai'i tomatoes for your lomi salmon, but the salted salmon most likely wasn't produced in Hawai'i (it certainly didn't come out of Hawaiian waters).

Miulang

[Pomai]

I'm sure you can buy organic milk, shoyu and rice in any health food store. But if you drove to that store located 10 miles away from your home to buy products that were delivered by another vehicle that also consumed fossil fuel, that would practically negate the whole ideal of eating organic in the first place. At least in the context written in that article.

Our family could easily survive on what's growing right in our backyard, but would we want to? Not at the moment. If forced to, no problem.

The subject at large here isn't about living an organic, healthy lifestyle, but whether or not Hawaii can be self-sustaining. Indeed a subject that needs more research and effort.

I'm all for our expanding Aquaculture Industry (http://www.hawaiiaquaculture.org/resources.html), such as the lobster, abalone and ogo farms on the Kona Coast. With more and more land being overtaken by residential development, aquaculture seems a logical direction to take.

As for agriculture, here's some statistics from the United States Department of Agriculture (http://www.nass.usda.gov/Statistics_by_State/Ag_Overview/AgOverview_HI.pdf) (Hawaii State Agricultural Overview - 2005, PDF document).

At a glance, it seems those figures would be adequate to support the entire state's population, provided it was all kept for domestic consumption. That, combined with solar-powered vehicles and shipping barges.. why not?

Technically and theoretically Hawaii could be self-sustained, but in today's global economy, it's just not practical. But I hope in time of an emergency we WILL be.

[Miulang]

What kinda cracks me up is whenever there's even a hint of a shipping strike in Hawai'i, what do the local supermarket shelves run out of first? Rice, SPAM and toilet paper! :D

Miulang

[Leo Lakio]

What kinda cracks me up is whenever there's even a hint of a shipping strike in Hawai'i, what do the local supermarket shelves run out of first? Rice, SPAM and toilet paper! :D

Miulang
Taking care of the ins and outs, no?

[Palolo Joe]

So your saying that when I go to a hawaiian party all the food except poi and hopefully fish will be imports?
Very few dishes at a "hawaiian party" are foods that were eaten by kanaka maoli.

And there's nothing wrong with hoarding spam, rice and toilet paper. Lots of uses for all three ingredients.

Local folks are resourceful.

[Erika Engle]

"As for shoyu, who needs it?"

I NEEDS it, thank you very much!

Raised with it all my life by my Nihonjin mother.

Not just any shoyu will do, either. I'm a shoyu SNOB and proud of it.

Lee Cataluna wrote a column about the vehemence of people's shoyu preferences years ago.

[Miulang]

And the reason why most local people prefer Aloha Shoyu over Kikkoman is probably because Aloha has added sugar in it to make it taste "sweeter".

Nutritional counts differ too:
Aloha Brand "Lower salt" (brewed in Hawaii)
Sodium 740 mg
Total carb: 0 mg

Kikkoman "Lite" (brewed in Wisconsin)
Sodium: 575 mg
Carb. 1 mg
Protein 1 mg

It definitely pays to read labels nowadays!

Miulang

[Leo Lakio]

Where does Yamasu (AF's preferred brand) fall, by comparison?

[Palolo Joe]

And the reason why most local people prefer Aloha Shoyu over Kikkoman is probably because Aloha has added sugar in it to make it taste "sweeter".
Hmmm... and living thousands of miles away from Hawaii, you would know this how?

I just grabbed lunch at Zippy's. They have Kikkoman there. I wonder how many other plate lunch places do too?

[pzarquon]

Who says "most locals" prefer Aloha?

I used to be pretty indiscriminate about shoyu brands, so the loyalties Erika mentions (and that Lee Cataluna apparently documented) were mysteries to me. Lately, however, I've become quite fond of Kikkoman. I won't shun Aloha, but if I have a choice, it'll be Kikkoman. If Aloha is sweeter, I like Kikkoman for its... darker, slightly smoky (brewed) taste.

I'll definitely take either Aloha or Kikkoman over some of the "off brands" out there. One plate lunch place I used to go to in Kaimuki had some weird, watery shoyu... but only briefly. I imagine it was cheaper, but customers most definitely noticed!

Lite shoyu? Like lite Spam, what's the point of that?

[craigwatanabe]

Because Kikkoman is closer to Miulang than it to us here in Hawaii.

I thought white rice was bad because of the enrichment process that didn't make for good digestion.

As a Japanese I can go without milk (most Japanese are lactose intolerant)but puleeze don't take away my rice and shoyu. Those two combined are a meal in itself! Add two broiled Saba Fillet and oh man you got one ono plate.

[craigwatanabe]

Lite shoyu? Like lite Spam, what's the point of that?

Kinda like Lite Beer. I think they call that soda pop :D

[Palolo Joe]

Kinda like Lite Beer. I think they call that soda pop :D
Hey, Michelob Ultra Amber might just lure me away from good ol' BL... but give me some Brew Moon Black Hole Lager any day...

[Leo Lakio]

Because Kikkoman is closer to Miulang than it to us here in Hawaii.And Aloha Shoyu is everywhere up here, too, along with Kikkoman, Yamasu, and a few others.

[pzarquon]

Although this is quickly becoming a shoyu thread, here's an article (http://www.spiritofaloha.com/features/0303/shoyu.html) from the April 2003 Spirit of Aloha about shoyu that also states it as a given that Aloha reigns supreme here:While Japan-based Kikkoman is a popular brand in Hawai'i, it is Aloha Shoyu-one of only two local manufacturers-that dominates the Island market... Aloha Shoyu seems to be the shoyu of choice when it comes to making poke, a popular Island delicacy made from chunks of raw fish, chopped veggies and other ingredients.Then again, the primary source for the entire article seems to be the head of Aloha shoyu, so of course his product reigns supreme. Even if true, I'm happy to take the road less traveled!

The piece references a 1997 Star-Bulletin taste test with Roy Yamaguchi and Alan Wong:Twenty different soy sauces were sampled. Kikkoman was deemed to have the more "aggressive" flavor-"saltier and sharper, with a slight tartness" was how the writer put it-while Aloha was described as being "soft and simple, with low acid and a caramel aroma."I can't find that original article, but here's an Aloha Shoyu item (http://starbulletin.com/2004/08/15/business/engle.html) by our own Erika Engle.

[lurkah]

Like I've posted in other Hawaii-related message boards, Kikkoman Shoyu rules; watery Aloha Shoyu is for wimps. :D

[Palolo Joe]

And Aloha Shoyu is everywhere up here, too, along with Kikkoman, Yamasu, and a few others.
Which is fine, but my original question was how could people living on the mainland know what Hawaii residents' preferences are?

Didn't say anything about those brands not being available.

[Pedro]

Very few dishes at a "hawaiian party" are foods that were eaten by kanaka maoli.

And there's nothing wrong with hoarding spam, rice and toilet paper. Lots of uses for all three ingredients.

Local folks are resourceful.

Spam, rice, and toilet paper are the three main ingredients I need to survive especially when I have nothing but that in the house, oh and also Sardines, the one in the soy sauce not the one with the tomatoe sauce(YUCK!) As for being resourceful, we sure are. If no can buy hat from the store, we make em, need one storage room for store stuff we build em with our bare hands, and than some. That's Hawaiian style.

[Miulang]

Hmmm... and living thousands of miles away from Hawaii, you would know this how?
Hahahahahaha! I know because I have bottles of BOTH Aloha and Kikkoman low sodium shoyu in my hale. Depending on what I'm cooking I'll use one or the other. So before I wen post dis, I wen make sure to spock da answer, because I KNEW you were going ask how I knew. :p I also have Chinese dark and light soy sauce in my kitchen, too.

Put it this way, the expats up here mostly prefer Aloha because we can get it up here now, and that's what the L&Ls use up here.

Leo: I don't know how Yamasa compares with Kikkoman or Aloha because I don't have a bottle of it lying around. Ask AFK to look at the label on the bottle you have at home. I did just learn that Yamasa produces shoyu with fewer additives than either Kikkoman or Aloha, and it's bottled in Japan and in a plant in Salem, Oregon.

Miulang

P.S. Aloha Airlines (http://www.spiritofaloha.com/features/0303/shoyu.html) once did a story about the importance of shoyu in local cooking and noted: ..."While Japan-based Kikkoman is a popular brand in Hawai'i, it is Aloha Shoyu-one of only two local manufacturers-that dominates the Island market. Aloha Shoyu Co. was formed in 1946 by five local Japanese families who opened a manufacturing plant in Kalihi on the island of O'ahu. Still a family-run business, Aloha Shoyu currently has about 50 employees at its offices in Pearl City and bottling facility at Campbell Industrial Park on O'ahu..."
"...In 1997, the Honolulu Star-Bulletin conducted a taste test featuring five Hawai'i food and wine experts, including celebrated chefs Roy Yamaguchi and Alan Wong. Twenty different soy sauces were sampled. Kikkoman was deemed to have the more "aggressive" flavor-"saltier and sharper, with a slight tartness" was how the writer put it-while Aloha was described as being "soft and simple, with low acid and a caramel aroma."

In our informal survey, four of five shoyu tasters preferred the Aloha brand. "Aloha is sweeter, and I just like the taste," says Melvin Anduha of Wai'anae. Adds Glenn Kawachi, "[Aloha] tastes better. It has more flavor."...

[Pedro]

Hahahahahaha! I know because I have bottles of BOTH Aloha and Kikkoman low sodium shoyu in my hale. Depending on what I'm cooking I'll use one or the other. So before I wen post dis, I wen make sure to spock da answer, because I KNEW you were going ask how I knew. :p I also have Chinese dark and light soy sauce in my kitchen, too.

Put it this way, the expats up here mostly prefer Aloha because we can get it up here now, and that's what the L&Ls use up here.

Leo: I don't know how Yamasa compares with Kikkoman or Aloha because I don't have a bottle of it lying around. Ask AFK to look at the label on the bottle you have at home. I did just learn that Yamasa produces shoyu with fewer additives than either Kikkoman or Aloha, and it's bottled in Japan and in a plant in Salem, Oregon.

Miulang

P.S. Aloha Airlines (http://www.spiritofaloha.com/features/0303/shoyu.html) once did a story about the importance of shoyu in local cooking and noted: ..."While Japan-based Kikkoman is a popular brand in Hawai'i, it is Aloha Shoyu-one of only two local manufacturers-that dominates the Island market. Aloha Shoyu Co. was formed in 1946 by five local Japanese families who opened a manufacturing plant in Kalihi on the island of O'ahu. Still a family-run business, Aloha Shoyu currently has about 50 employees at its offices in Pearl City and bottling facility at Campbell Industrial Park on O'ahu..."
"...In 1997, the Honolulu Star-Bulletin conducted a taste test featuring five Hawai'i food and wine experts, including celebrated chefs Roy Yamaguchi and Alan Wong. Twenty different soy sauces were sampled. Kikkoman was deemed to have the more "aggressive" flavor-"saltier and sharper, with a slight tartness" was how the writer put it-while Aloha was described as being "soft and simple, with low acid and a caramel aroma."

In our informal survey, four of five shoyu tasters preferred the Aloha brand. "Aloha is sweeter, and I just like the taste," says Melvin Anduha of Wai'anae. Adds Glenn Kawachi, "[Aloha] tastes better. It has more flavor."...


I see you did your homework and I give you an "A+"

[Pomai]

Well to stick somewhat with the topic of this thread, I notice Kikkoman offers an Organic Soy Sauce (http://www.kikkoman-usa.com/_pages/consumer/products/soysauce.asp?loc=101&subsection=products&subsection2=soysauce) (gosh how wrong it sounds to say "Soy Sauce"). But I guess you'd have to live within 100 miles of their plant in California or Wisconsin (http://www.kikkoman.com/news/news8.html) in order to qualify it into this diet. At the moment, Aloha only offers an Organic Honey Glaze (http://www.alohashoyu.com/onlinestore/organic_honey.htm).

Yeah, it makes promotional sense for Aloha Airlines to endorse Aloha Shoyu.

Perhaps I'll start a new brand...
HAWAIIAN SHOYU
"Ono Starts Here!"

:rolleyes:

[Miulang]

Speaking of Aloha Shoyu, I've tried their guava pineapple (http://www.alohashoyu.com/onlinestore/guava_pineapple.htm) and mango pineapple (http://www.alohashoyu.com/onlinestore/mango_pineapple.htm) marinade/glazes (bought them in the largest Asian food supermarket in town). They are both actually very very good for making a different kind of teriyaki. I'm trying to support Hawaiian businesses whenever I can up here. :cool:

Miulang

[i-hungry]

Can you imagine a bull walking up to a cow for a sip of milk?
Hey! That's how we get baby cows.

We're the only species to browse the Internet too! :)

Kikkoman is easily better than Aloha. Trying to cook dishes that use shoyu in significant proportions makes it more apparent. For dark shoyu, Lee Kum Kee premium is tops.

Sue Kiyabu should live a week with products made locally. :) That's more difficult. No computer, shoes, clothes, car, toiletries, etc.

[Da Rolling Eye]

So, whatever happened to Diamond Shoyu?

[timkona]

Much of the farmland all over the world is being overtaken by development, which means the source of your food is farther and farther away.

Sound like an argument for tall, taller, tallest buildings. 120 stories would protect a lot of farmland. The logic is too obvious.

[scrivener]

What nobody has mentioned is that Kikkoman has monosodium glutamate, which isn't as bad for you as everyone seems to think. MSG, like salt, definitely makes food taste better, and that's why I prefer Kikkoman.

Have you been down the shoyu aisle at the Marukai Market on Dillingham? There are all kinds of interesting brands there; haven't tried any yet myself, but I'm definitely going to.

I really dig vinegar, and when I come home from Marukai, I have a new bottle of something interesting; perhaps I'll add a new brand of shoyu to the equation.

[Pedro]

I use to stock Shoyu at the commisary in Schofeild, and da buggah neva moved off da shelve's. "Aloha" at least once or twice in a week :mad: and Kiko man never went anywhere :eek:

[Pomai]

I use to stock Shoyu at the commisary in Schofeild, and da buggah neva moved off da shelve's. "Aloha" at least once or twice in a week :mad: and Kiko man never went anywhere :eek:You should've talked to the guy stocking the sour cream, bacon bits, butter, ketchup, mustard and Worcestershire sauce... those condiments. I bet he was busy. :p

Believe me, those are must-haves in our pantry as much as Shoyu. ;)

[Pua'i Mana'o]

What nobody has mentioned is that Kikkoman has monosodium glutamate, which isn't as bad for you as everyone seems to think. MSG, like salt, definitely makes food taste better, and that's why I prefer Kikkoman.


Normally MSG is not spoken of amongst polite circles, but since you brought it up:

I cannot cook a decent dish of killer fried shrimp w/o a few shakes of (sing it with me peopleeee) Ah-gee-aaah-geee-no-mo-to.....

</discreetly places hands in lap, sits primmly>

[Da Rolling Eye]

ah-ji-noo-moo-toooooooo. ;) I feel so old. :D

I sked aji. My ex-wife used to get what felt like pressure headaches behind her eyes after eating any type of food containing the stuff. I won't use it again till I hear or read something to the contrary. Too bad, cause it does make a difference. :(

[Miulang]

ah-ji-noo-moo-toooooooo. ;) I feel so old. :D

I sked aji. My ex-wife used to get what felt like pressure headaches behind her eyes after eating any type of food containing the stuff. I won't use it again till I hear or read something to the contrary. Too bad, cause it does make a difference. :(
Regarding MSG (http://www.holisticmed.com/msg/msg-right.txt)...there is some evidence that excessive glutamic acid is being found in the brains of Alzheimers, ALS (Lou Gehrig's disease) and Parkinson's disease patients. Since MSG is found in so many processed foods as a flavor enhancer, it's really hard to find products that don't contain MSG, but it's probably worth avoiding excessive use of the chemical for its immediate and possibly long term consequences. Another natural amino acid that might cause neurodegenerative problems is aspartame (http://www.wnho.net/aspartameandgulfwar.htm) (Equal/Nutrasweet), although more testing needs to be done to prove the link conclusively.

"...MSG that we eat may cause or exacerbate
neurodegenerative disease. We know that elevated levels of
glutamate in the brain are associated with neurodegenerative
disease such as ALS, Parkinson's disease, and Alzheimer's
disease. We also know that the blood-brain barrier, once
thought to protect the brain from unregulated flow of MSG,
is damaged by conditions such as trauma to the head, stroke,
diabetes, hypoglycemia, and aging. One must consider,
therefore, that the MSG we eat might cause or exacerbate
neurodegenerative disease.
The New England Journal of Medicine found this notion
to be of sufficient merit to publish a Letter to the Editor
on July 28, 1994 suggesting that "It is time to address the
possibility that ingestion of neurotoxic amino acids may
both cause and exacerbate pathologic conditions associated
with endogenous neurotoxic amino acids."...

Miulang

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Regarding MSG (http://www.holisticmed.com/msg/msg-right.txt)...there is some evidence that excessive glutamic acid is being found in the brains of Alzheimers, ALS (Lou Gehrig's disease) and Parkinson's disease patients. Since MSG is found in so many processed foods as a flavor enhancer, it's really hard to find products that don't contain MSG, but it's probably worth avoiding excessive use of the chemical for its immediate and possibly long term consequences. Another natural amino acid that might cause neurodegenerative problems is aspartame (http://www.wnho.net/aspartameandgulfwar.htm) (Equal/Nutrasweet), although more testing needs to be done to prove the link conclusively.

"...MSG that we eat may cause or exacerbate
neurodegenerative disease. We know that elevated levels of
glutamate in the brain are associated with neurodegenerative
disease such as ALS, Parkinson's disease, and Alzheimer's
disease. We also know that the blood-brain barrier, once
thought to protect the brain from unregulated flow of MSG,
is damaged by conditions such as trauma to the head, stroke,
diabetes, hypoglycemia, and aging. One must consider,
therefore, that the MSG we eat might cause or exacerbate
neurodegenerative disease.
The New England Journal of Medicine found this notion
to be of sufficient merit to publish a Letter to the Editor
on July 28, 1994 suggesting that "It is time to address the
possibility that ingestion of neurotoxic amino acids may
both cause and exacerbate pathologic conditions associated
with endogenous neurotoxic amino acids."...

Miulang

to quote Maddie:

you are a buzzkill!

actually, we eat more msg than we realize. It is in quite a bit of local foods, chips, seed, dishes in restaurants, and other sauces that are sold in the oriental foods isle.

And I only sprinkle it on fried shrimp! I promise!

and I need to edit this to say:

both Aloha and Club shoyu rock!
Kikkoman is too salty; it is hard to make a good batch of shoyu chicken with it.

[Miulang]

both Aloha and Club shoyu rock!
Kikkoman is too salty; it is hard to make a good batch of shoyu chicken with it.
I know what you mean about the type of shoyu makes a difference in the final product; hence I have both Aloha and Kikkoman (plus the Chinese light and dark stuff) on hand, and will use one or the other depending on what I'm cooking.

As for Club Shoyu, since I discovered it can only be found on Maui and the Big Island, I am assuming when on Maui I can pick it up at Star Market? There's no more Ooka and no more Ah Fook, so I don't know where any other Maui based markets might be in Central Maui, except for that little bento place in Happy Valley (Takamiya)...

As for the "flavor enhancers", all I can say is, "Pick yer poison!" :D

Miulang

[i-hungry]

to quote Maddie:
Kikkoman is too salty; it is hard to make a good batch of shoyu chicken with it.

i think it depends on your recipe. i notice that there's some differences with the chinese recipes and the local recipes. i have been putting 3/4 cup kikkoman and 1/2 cup lee kum kee dark soysauce.

other ingredients include star anise, tangerine peel, rice wine, brown sugar etc.