Apple Announcements

[pzarquon]

Well, the much-anticipated WWDC kicked off today, with most of the attention focused on good ol' Steve Jobs' keynote address.

Main product announcement? The Mac Pro (http://www.apple.com/macpro/) (no, not a Macpro (http://macpro.freeshell.org/)), the replacement to the G5 tower. A dual dual-core (Quad Core), 64-bit, 3GHz machine that's now Apple's top-of-the-line, and that now marks the completion of Apple's conversion to Intel processors.

Also covered, the upcoming Leopard release of OSX (multiple desktops via Spaces), Time Machine (backup utility), upgrades to Mail, iCal, iChat (including some fun green/bluescreen-like live video effects that don't require a green/bluescreen at all), Spotlight...

Well, no full-screen iPod, no iPhone, nor many of the other common predictions... but things are clearly going well for Apple.

[Paul]

But the stock price went down right after Jobs started talking.

[pzarquon]

Well, I'm an Apple customer and fan, not a stockholder. Besides. Things are bound to be wobbly up or down right around a major Apple conference. Folks who were expecting the iPhone are probably bummed, but those just requiring a consistent and quality product line and ongoing innovation are pretty happy.

I'm impressed that for the simpler configurations, the Mac Pro comes in under $2,500. Compared to reasonably appointed but high-end PC towers, that's downright competitive... even without all the media creation and other advantages a Mac comes with.

[timkona]

People still buy Macs? Veddy Interesting?

[pzarquon]

A few folks, yes. Though I'm sure the crowds in the Apple Store are just as much there for the free chili and rice than for the merchandise. :p

And, seriously, not everyone buying Macs are longstanding cult members who've gotten addicted to the Kool-Aid. Fifty percent of Mac purchases these days are to people new to the platform. And while that's still bupkis and a half versus bupkis to some folks... it's pretty damn good for this particular "niche" company.

[Bard]

Long time PC and Linux user, now an (almost) full time Mac user here (Linux server at home, and Windows PCs at work). After a while you get tired of putting up with BS from your computer and it's a joyful bit of relaxation when it more or less just works. Yeah, there are exceptions to that, but the things really are nice. And they are reasonably priced for what they are too (not just Macs, compare "apples to apples" :) vs Dell or something, and see what I mean).

I'd rather watch a Jobs keynote any day vs MS too. "One more thing" and some righteously deserved digs at MS' attitude, or "developers developers developers developers!!" :D

Anyone watching their electric bill would do well to take a look at them too -- they are some of the quietest, least power hungry computers you can get right now for the CPU power.

[Eric]

After having bought and maintained 9 PCs over the last 20 years, I finally got fed up and bought a Mac this time. Damn, they're expensive. But they sure do come loaded with cool stuff. And they really do just work. I had been hassling for months with getting my cell phone to talk to my PC, but the Mac made a Bluetooth connection easily, the first time, with no extra software needed. Whee!

Now if I could just get it to run my Windows programs, too. :D

[pzarquon]

Now if I could just get it to run my Windows programs, too.That's what Boot Camp (http://www.apple.com/macosx/bootcamp/), Parallels (http://www.parallels.com/), and the forthcoming CrossOver Mac (http://www.codeweavers.com/products/cxmac/) are for! I know those options were one safety net that a few recent switchers have kept in mind for comfort... but all the ones I know so far find they don't need Windows anymore at all.

[mel]

Now if I could just get it to run my Windows programs, too. :D

If you bought the newest Macs with an Intel processor, all you need is either Boot Camp or Parallels Desktop and of course a copy of Windows XP. Install all of this on your Intel Mac, and you can probably run most of your Windows programs.

While I don't own a Mac Intel yet, I hear that the Parallels is the better of the 2 currently available Windows solutions to run on Mac.

After seeing the new Mac Pro introduced at yesterday's conference, I surely would love to have one.

Addendum: Looks like I got caught in a simultaneous posting trap. Probably typed too slow.

[Eric]

After spending all that dough on a Mac, I am reluctant to drop another couple hundred for a full copy of Windows to install and run under Boot Camp or Parallels. Crossover Mac is supposed to run Windows programs without needing Windows itself, so I'm waiting for that -- or even better, for its free cousin, Darwine (http://darwine.opendarwin.org/).

[craigwatanabe]

But the stock price went down right after Jobs started talking.


Figures...everytime Apple comes out with the "New and Improved" model of anything they drop the price leaving the initial buyers with empty wallets and a less powerful machine. :D

[tikiyaki]

People still buy Macs? Veddy Interesting?

Still ? New apple stores opening all the time. If you do any sort of Post Production professionally, be it music or video, chances are you're working on a Mac. You'll rarely see them in, say, a real estate or insurance office.
That being said, both platforms are becoming more similar every day.

I've always been an apple user, but it's really down to what you learned on.

Also, Those PC's get those nasty viruses...almost none on a MAC :-)

[pzarquon]

Figures...everytime Apple comes out with the "New and Improved" model of anything they drop the price leaving the initial buyers with empty wallets and a less powerful machine.Yeah, damn them! That never happens in any other industry with any other product! :p

I hear you on paying for Windows, Eric. Considering that a distaste for Windows would be one of the more common reasons for buying a Mac, it seems a bit ridiculous to shell out money for that operating system. But for those who have PC-only apps (particularly those that WINE derivatives won't support), or have to do cross-platform testing, dual-boot and virtualization are pretty darn good options. And options that only exist on the Mac side of the fence.

A friend of mine has a MacBook running OSX, pre-release Vista, and Ubuntu. A triple-boot system!

[Bard]

Figures...everytime Apple comes out with the "New and Improved" model of anything they drop the price leaving the initial buyers with empty wallets and a less powerful machine. :D

I know, I just bought an iMac yesterday and I'm waiting for them to announce next week that a new merom/conroe based one is to be released at the same price, or something. I'll bring out my KHAAAN!! at that time. :D

The way I try to look at it, if you were content to pay what they were asking for what they offered before, there shouldn't be a problem, right? They're just trying to maximize their profits by following economics: charge what people are willing to pay (or a little more).

[Beachboy]

People still buy Macs? Veddy Interesting?

only the one's smart enough to know the difference. I mean there are a lot of people who haven't a clue about Macs too. Just because you own a computer doesn't mean you're techie. I mean look how many people still use AOL?!?!?

With Macs you hardly have to concern yourself with spyware, malware, etc, etc. Seems like Window boxes need security updates every other day! :eek: Plus any geek worth his broadband would love to own one of these new Macs that were shown yesterday.

A real plus with the new Intel Macs is the ability to boot into Windows( God forbid!), or Red Hat(any open source OS)!

Bottomline, all you need to know is, Redmond steals most of their innovation from Cupertino! ;)

[pzarquon]

only the one's smart enough to know the difference.Not another Mac vs. PC war, please.

PC users aren't stupid and Mac users aren't elitist punks, though I'm sure there's a fair population of both groups in both camps. It is possible to discuss the appeal Apple machines without making enemies of non-Apple users (though it's about as irresistable to some as baiting folks the other way 'round, obviously).

I have fun on my Mac, but earn a living on my PC. I'm glad both are there. This thread was simply started just to discuss the latest Apple news, and to be sure there are already more than a few other Windows-specific discussions for Windows fans.

[Beachboy]

Not another Mac vs. PC war, please.

PC users aren't stupid and Mac users aren't elitist punks, though I'm sure there's a fair population of both groups in both camps. It is possible to discuss the appeal Apple machines without making enemies of non-Apple users (though it's about as irresistable to some as baiting folks the other way 'round, obviously).

I have fun on my Mac, but earn a living on my PC. I'm glad both are there. This thread was simply started just to discuss the latest Apple news, and to be sure there are already more than a few other Windows-specific discussions for Windows fans.

who said anything about OS war? The prejuidice against Macs drives me crazy! Just the other day I heard yet another lame comment about Macs..."there is not enough software" :eek: Or "there isn't enough good games running Mac OS", etc,etc,...

[Beachboy]

I know, I just bought an iMac yesterday and I'm waiting for them to announce next week that a new merom/conroe based one is to be released at the same price, or something. I'll bring out my KHAAAN!! at that time. :D

The way I try to look at it, if you were content to pay what they were asking for what they offered before, there shouldn't be a problem, right? They're just trying to maximize their profits by following economics: charge what people are willing to pay (or a little more).

It's always smart to wait till after Macworld or the WWWC to buy Apple hardware. Steve Jobs annually unveils something new from Apple during these two events.

[craigwatanabe]

who said anything about OS war? The prejuidice against Macs drives me crazy! Just the other day I heard yet another lame comment about Macs..."there is not enough software" :eek: Or "there isn't enough good games running Mac OS", etc,etc,...

Well all one has to do is to look at the Mac Display at CompUSA and then walk all the way over to the Ewa end and see the racks and racks of PC stuff.

Very limited variety for Macs and then there's the accessories! A friend bought a Mac Laptop and needed the laptop cooler. The white Apple one cost twice as much as the same black PC one sold in CompUSA. Wassup wit dat? He ended up buying the black one for half the cost.

[Bard]

It's always smart to wait till after Macworld or the WWWC to buy Apple hardware. Steve Jobs annually unveils something new from Apple during these two events.

Well, during the his keynote anyway. No updates for the things I was interested in anyway, and I don't want to wait until Macworld (would make it somewhat pointless to get what I got :))

'Course as soon as I say that he's going to have a last minute announcement of new iMacs... :D

[Beachboy]

Well all one has to do is to look at the Mac Display at CompUSA and then walk all the way over to the Ewa end and see the racks and racks of PC stuff.

chumpUSA is hardly a Mac Advocate! Years ago billed as a store within a store :rolleyes: Apple put in the corner of the far backside of store? Plus, they are very limited on Mac software there too. Apple should drop their agreement with ChumpUSA if you ask me. The people working there aren't trying to even sell a Mac to you! They try to persude you into buying a PC instead???

Very limited variety for Macs and then there's the accessories! A friend bought a Mac Laptop and needed the laptop cooler. The white Apple one cost twice as much as the same black PC one sold in CompUSA. Wassup wit dat? He ended up buying the black one for half the cost.

very limited variety???? Are you talking about Hardware? I think Apple's lineup of their hardware is just right!

Laptops (2)

1.) MacBook Pro
2.) MacBook

Desktops (3)

1.) Mac Mini
2.) iMac
3.) Mac Pro Tower

I guess I could go on about their iPod lineup, and their monitors too, but what's the sense? Bias towards Macs have been forever it seems.

As for it's software goes, anything good on a PC , is almost always ported over to the Mac. Yeah, it appears that there is about 5 times to software on the PC side as to the Mac side. But look at some of those titles on the PC side! :rolleyes:

[pzarquon]

Ooh, new iMacs (http://www.apple.com/imac/)! Starting at $999. I love our iMac G5 (PPC) and it's pretty sweet with 2GB of RAM... but now that I'm using a MacBook with the Intel chip, I imagine just how slick these new all-in-one desktops must be. And the form factor remains just beautiful. A pleasure to have on one's desk, even when off! They seem to have updated the Mac mini (http://www.macworld.com/news/2006/09/06/mini/index.php), too, putting the Core Duo in the entry-level $599 machine.

Of course, most folks are excited about a mysterious Sept. 12 media event (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=19&entry_id=8557), dubbed "Showtime." Rumors are swirling, from a movie download service to the oft-predicted widescreen video iPod. The fact that Apple updated its product line this week, without fanfare, makes next week's announcements even more tantalizing!

[Bard]

Yeah, my month-old Intel iMac with Core 1 Duo is feeling a little inadequate right about now. ;) But the big differences in the bumped lineup are the Core 2 processor with about a 1.5x speed boost (will probably be 2x for Leopard, with the 64-bit stuff), and 1G of ram by default for the 17" and up. They also added a 24" iMac. I still feel like I got a pretty good deal when I got mine so I have no regrets about it.

[Fat Jeff]

I've got my finger on the trigger for getting our nephew who lives with us a Nano. But the rumored Nano update to a metal case and more memory has me waiting until the 12th.

With all the new hardware coming out I could feel like my G4 Powerbook is sooooooo 2005 but nah...it works fine.

But the touch screen ipod with say 80g of memory...drool,,,,,, :p

[scrivener]

Here you go, Mel: Your new avatar!

http://www.mitchellkdwyer.net/images/macpro1.png


aaaaand resized for HT's 70 x 70 maximum:


http://www.mitchellkdwyer.net/images/macpro2.png

[mel]

It must be a real slow day here at Apple land... or Hawaii Threads... first the game was late.. and then I see a new game... and now I get a new Avatar... well this is certainly a surprise... and well I might as well use it for now until it becomes obsolete with an even faster macpro duo core... Actually I am kind of thinking of actually getting one of these beasts.... something about running a computer with 4 different operating systems on 4 different hard drives appeals to me... and I always liked towers... and being a Mac guy who likes towers, we don't get too many choices to choose from now don't we?

Mahalo.. I guess it was time to get rid of the red sun.

[scrivener]

I guess it was time to get rid of the red sun.
What was that, anyway? It looked to me like some kind of unholy beast from hell, ready to unleash its wrath on the masses.

[pzarquon]

The "It's Showtime" event, as expected, led to crashed tech news servers and overloaded Apple blogs. I had six tabs open to various "live" coverage sites but only two at a time, at most, were actually reachable. But here's the quick-and-dirty rundown of what was announced.

Updated 5G iPods: 30GB for $249, 80GB for $349 (http://www.apple.com/ipod/ipod.html). Featuring 60% brighter screens with brighness control, 3.5 to 6.5 hours (for 80GB) video playback, up from 2 hours, new headphones, gapless playback, and games (Tetris, Bejewled, Mahjong, Pac Man, Texas Hold Em) for $4.99.

Updated iPod Nano: New, thinner, aluminum body (http://www.apple.com/ipodnano), 24 hour battery life, new charger, armband, and headphones. 2GB (silver only) for $149, 4GB for $199 (green, silver, blue, pink), 8GB for $249 (black).

Updated iPod Shuffle: Metal body, very small (http://www.apple.com/ipodshuffle/) ("world's smallest" is the claim), 12-hour battery life. 1GB for $79.

Updated iTunes & iTunes Store (no longer iTunes Music Store): iTunes Version 7 out now (http://www.apple.com/itunes/download/). Redesign includes separate libraries for all forms of media, devices, and playlists, a new view to browse by cover art (very slick!), and free cover art for your library. Technology improvements include syncing between multiple computers, TV show resolution boosted to 640x480 H.264 (from 320x240), cleaner iPod management and integrated iPod updaters (instead of a separate app). iTunes now the #5 retailer of music, including brick-and-morter. As for TV shows, after stargint last year with one network and five shows, iTMS now sells 220 shows from over 40 networks. Now adding the NFL Network.

Movies: Adding movies to the iTunes Store (http://www.apple.com/itunes/store/movies.html). Films from Disney, Pixar, Touchstone, Miramax (all Disney). 75 films available now. New releases $12.99 preorder, $14.99 released (same day as DVD), the rest $9.99. Also encoded at 640x480 H.264, including Dolby surround audio, and you can watch as it downloads (30 minutes for the average film over broadband).

Wireless TV Box: Ah, the famous, "One last thing..." Coming in the first quarter of next year, an easy way to see your iTunes/iPod video content on your television, wirelessly. It looks like a flattened Mac mini, and has USB, Ethernet, and 802.11 wireless connectivity, and component video, optical audio, and HDMI ports (so HD capable). Runs a beefed-up, Front Row-like interface, and of course works with the Apple Remote. Still needs a name, but called iTV for now. $299.

The upgrades across the iPod line are nice (in some cases doubling capacity for the same price, and the form factor changes are also cool), but no full-/wide-screen video iPod just yet. The iTunes/iTunes Store upgrades are also good (can't wait to play with the album art bits (http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/apple-showtime/apple-showtime-itunes-70s-album-view-and-coverflow-200122.php)). And the movie announcement was widely expected... and no mention of whether you can burn your purchases to a physical DVD (though someone will certainly find a way).

The new hardware piece for TV (http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/apple-showtime/apple-showtime-itv-one-more-thing-photos-200139.php) is intriguing... although a lot of people are already using Mac minis as media managers and media centers, this specialized box looks snazzy (http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/apple-showtime/apple-showtime-itv-screenshots-more-200141.php), and makes it Apple-style simple to get everything working easily.

[adrian]

Okay, never mind that weirld al CD, I want an iPod for my bday! :D

[Pua'i Mana'o]

I *love* it that iTunes is offering movies for d/l!!! About damned time!

And I think mamma needs her an itty bitty shuffle. It looks like something that I can exercise with!

I {heart} apple.

[Glen Miyashiro]

Wireless TV Box: Ah, the famous, "One last thing..." Coming in the first quarter of next year, an easy way to see your iTunes/iPod video content on your television, wirelessly. It looks like a flattened Mac mini, and has USB, Ethernet, and 802.11 wireless connectivity, and component video, optical audio, and HDMI ports (so HD capable). Runs a beefed-up, Front Row-like interface, and of course works with the Apple Remote. Still needs a name, but called iTV for now. $299.

[...]

The new hardware piece for TV (http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/apple-showtime/apple-showtime-itv-one-more-thing-photos-200139.php) is intriguing... although a lot of people are already using Mac minis as media managers and media centers, this specialized box looks snazzy (http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/apple-showtime/apple-showtime-itv-screenshots-more-200141.php), and makes it Apple-style simple to get everything working easily.But where's the DVR functionality? If Apple's gonna make an iTV, it had better out-TiVo TiVo.

[Fat Jeff]

I just noticed something...the revised Nanos ship with the following only:

* • iPod nano
* • Earphones
* • USB 2.0 cable
* • Dock adapter
* • Quick Start guide

What's missing? How about a disc with the Itunes software. Apple says:

Available as a free download, iTunes makes it easy to browse and buy millions of songs, audiobooks, podcasts, TV shows, movies, and games on the iTunes Store. Plus you can import your own music, manage your whole media library, and sync your iPod with ease.

Kind of a hassle for those without a high speen connection. My current version is 33.4MB. That's a long download for people with dial up.

[Glen Miyashiro]

Or they could load it into the nano itself. It is a data storage device, after all. :D

[Fat Jeff]

Or they could load it into the nano itself. It is a data storage device, after all. :D

Shhhhhhhh....that's the dirty little secret about Ipods. I wonder how many Ipod owners use this function? I use it all the time, moving files from work to home, even backing up my server and using the Ipod to transport it to another computers external drive.

[scrivener]

My students do it all the time. In fact, my 40gb 4G iPod I purchased from a student who had only used it a few times, and only to move files.

[pzarquon]

Since my darling wife basically spends any free moment playing Quinn (http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showthread.php?t=9343), of course I had to buy her the official, licensed, iPod optimized (i.e. clickwheel playable) Tetris (http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewGame?id=188710913&s=143441). Very, very snazzy.

Also, the new interface for iTunes is great. Easier iPod management, and the CoverFlow browsing mode is se-xy. My Mac is happily downloading missing cover art right now!

[pzarquon]

The new alpha navigation system for the new iPods looks really useful... but it doesn't appear as if that'll be added to the current line up of 5G iPods (even though the new iPods are effectively still 5G). My iPod was updated to support the new games, for example, but otherwise it's still spin city to reach the bottom of a list.

Sure, there's no widescreen video iPod (yet), but the price drop that boosts your gigabyte-per-buck? I'll take it. I've read online reports that the new 80GB model has led to a significant price discount on the former top dog, the 60GB, so if you want the space and don't need the latest and greatest, that might be an option.

[christa]

i've been waiting to get an ipod. waiting. waiting.... waiting for the one you can wear as an earring.

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2006/09/shuffle.jpg

[christa]

OH PS:

microsoft released the "zune" today......


http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2006/09/ms-zune-3.jpg

[adrian]

Does anyone know if the Apple store has the new goodies on display/stock?

EDIT: If MS won't mess up the zune, then I might get one. Xmas shopping will be hectic this year!

[pzarquon]

The new alpha navigation system for the new iPods looks really useful... but it doesn't appear as if that'll be added to the current line up of 5G iPods (even though the new iPods are effectively still 5G). My iPod was updated to support the new games, for example, but otherwise it's still spin city to reach the bottom of a list.Sometimes, it's good to be wrong. I was just scrolling down my list of artists, grumbling about how long it'd take, when lo and behold, suddenly letters appeared superimposed in the center of my screen and, voila, I was jumping down my library with ease -- one click, one letter, flipping through the alphabet with ease.

I'm not sure if what I'm seeing is the extent of the new browsing system on the newest iPods, but it's still a neat new tweak and one I'm glad to see "passed down" to those with first-generation fifth-generation iPods.

Oh, and by the way, Microsoft didn't release anything, really. Just more pictures and more marketing speak for a device they've been hyping up for weeks. But so far, the Zune is largely imaginary. We're just getting more promises of what it might include. Wireless! Phone functions! "If and when it actually comes out, watch out!" Sounds a lot like Vista two years ago. I think they just wanted to get back in the news after Apple basically took over the tech press last week.

[Bard]

That's MS' operating strategy. Always has been, probably always will be. When they identify a market they want, they start making noises about entering it. Then they wait for everyone else to decide the grass is greener elsewhere, fearing competition from MS. Then they move in with a mediocre product that's only half as nice as what they promised.

Somehow with the iPod out there I don't think it's gonna work this time ;)

[Pomai]

As reported today at CNN.com:

'iWoz' -- Apple co-founder tells his story (http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/09/27/apple.wozniak.reut/index.html)

In a book titled "iWoz" published this week, Wozniak seeks to tell the engineer's side of the story and set a few things in the record straight.

For him, the day that defined the personal computer was June 29, 1975, the first time he typed a character on a keyboard and saw it show up on the screen right in front of him.Sounds like an interesting read. Brings back memories of the also interesting "Pirates of Silicone Valley" television program.

On a side note, Steve Jobs is listed at #49 in the Forbes 400 Richest Americans (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/54/biz_06rich400_The-400-Richest-Americans_Rank.html) recently published. His net worth at $5.1 billion at age 51. Again Bill Gates is #1 with $53 billion at age 50, and MS cofounder Paul Allen is at #5 with $16 billion at age 53.

I don't see Steve Wozniak anywhere in that Forbes list, but judging from the article above, it probably doesn't bother him one bit. :rolleyes:

[craigwatanabe]

Wireless TV Box: Ah, the famous, "One last thing..." Coming in the first quarter of next year, an easy way to see your iTunes/iPod video content on your television, wirelessly. It looks like a flattened Mac mini, and has USB, Ethernet, and 802.11 wireless connectivity, and component video, optical audio, and HDMI ports (so HD capable). Runs a beefed-up, Front Row-like interface, and of course works with the Apple Remote. Still needs a name, but called iTV for now. $299.


Wireless TV Box...I think my dad had one of those back in the 60's. Nice unit with these things called "rabbit ears" poking out in all directions to catch a ghostly KGMB TV in Palolo. I believe Zenith made that one then there was the RCA with Colortrac and then Quasar with The works in the Drawer...yeah wireless TV kinda goes way back :rolleyes: :D

[pzarquon]

If you've been eyeing one of the new, slimmer, metallic iPod Nano players, check out the new, special-edition "Product Red" iPod (http://www.apple.com/ipodnano/red/). Unlike the red-and-black U2 iPod, where you paid more for a fancy color scheme and U2 song downloads, the 4GB "Product Red" iPod Nano will have the same price as the rest of the colored 4GB iPod Nano line (http://www.apple.com/ipodnano/) ($199), but $10 of it will go toward the Global Fund to Fight AIDS in Africa.

I love my 5G video iPod, but always thought the Nano line was particularly sexy. I think this sharp red color will sell quite well, and do some good in the process.

[Miulang]

What will Steve Jobs pull out of his sleeve this year? There's talk of an "iPhone" and and "iTV". The MacWorld trade show (http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/ptech/01/08/apple.macworld.ap/index.html)starts tomorrow at Moscone Center in San Francisco, so expect lots of press beginning tomorrow.

Miulang

[pzarquon]

Between CES and Macworld, my feedreader is overflowing. Hundreds of posts in a few hours. And yeah, when the Macworld keynote starts, I'll pretty much be in the zone and useless to the rest of the universe.

I'm actually kind of miffed at all the emphasis on the 'iPhone' (though it won't be called the 'iPhone' since another company has the trademark and just started using it). The speculation is so overwhelming it's almost as if Apple can't not announce it. Yet... I'm not particularly interested in such a beast.

My favorite Macworld hype tracker? Keynote Bingo (http://arstechnica.com/staff/fatbits.ars/2007/1/7/6514). There's been variations on this for years, but this one dynamically and randomly assigns squares. Wonder if someone on the show floor will yell "Bingo!" while The Steve is on stage? :p

[pzarquon]

Keynote underway. Semi-live updates here (http://www.macrumorslive.com/), here (http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/09/live-from-macworld-2007-steve-jobs-keynote/), here (http://www.tuaw.com/2007/01/09/macworld-2007-keynote-liveblog/), and here (http://twitter.com/macworld), among many. Expect things on the web to be kinda congested over the next hour!

[pzarquon]

iPod and iTunes: Kicking everyone's butt, including Microsoft Zune. Adding Paramount to movie store. "Wrath of Khan," anyone?

Apple TV (formerly iTV), $299, 720p HD video, 40GB hard drive for syncing, photos, music, and videos, live streaming and looks fantastic.

iPhone: HOLY CRAP. Well, okay, everyone saw the iPhone coming. But not this iPhone coming. Or that they went with iPhone, despite the fact that Cisco has an iPhone too. How? Well, because this thing is in its own category of device. It's the long-awaited widescreen/full-face iPod, plus an internet communicator (IM), plus a phone. No keypad, all touch screen, motion detectors can tell if you're holding it to your ear, in portrait or horizontal mode, and so on. It runs a full OS, not some stripped down system -- the UI looks polished and intuitive (and how (http://www.macrumorslive.com/photos/)!). GSM+EDGE, WiFi and BlueTooth, syncs everything from contacts to media seamlessly as the iPod, and... and... I hope even Apple skeptics can agree -- pretty much blows everything else out of the water.

I need a cold shower. :D

[Glen Miyashiro]

And only 11.6mm thick. That's thinner than the Motorola Razr!

[Kungpao]

holy moly i want i want:eek:

[adrian]

well, there's the fact that the screen will be scratched up in a few weeks, it can be easily snapped in half... aw, who am I kidding, I'm just ranting that Cingulhell got another exclusive!!! *cries*

[GeckoGeek]

Or that they went with iPhone, despite the fact that Cisco has an iPhone too.

I don't think that can last. Two phone devices that have the "iPhone" name? Lawsuit. Apple on the loosing side. They'll have to license the name if they want it that bad.

[Glen Miyashiro]

Heh. One of the images Jobs used showed an entry for "Steve's iPhone, 8.0 GB, 408-996-1010". Of course, it's not Jobs' actual iPhone number, it's the main listing for Apple.

And oh baby. Eight gigabytes on a phone? :D

[NoCal Boy]

I don't think that can last. Two phone devices that have the "iPhone" name? Lawsuit. Apple on the loosing side. They'll have to license the name if they want it that bad.

Looks like they've worked out a deal with Cisco. From CNET News:

10:32--Cisco calls CNET News.com reporter with a statement about Apple's use of the term "iPhone" for its new product. "Given Apple's numerous requests for permission to use Cisco's iPhone trademark over the past several years and our extensive discussions with them recently, it is our belief that with their announcement today, Apple intends to agree to the final document and public statements that were distributed to them last night and that address a few remaining items we expect to receive a signed agreement today."

[zff]

Ouch! $600 w/ 2-year contract for the 8GB phone! What the hell, I still want one. :D Gotta wait 'till June, though. :(

[Kungpao]

Ouch! $600 w/ 2-year contract for the 8GB phone! What the hell, I still want one. :D Gotta wait 'till June, though. :(

blah.. not to mention that the wife will most definitely want one too...
that means $1200 for 2of those babies!:eek:

[pzarquon]

I'm still reeling. It's OSX in your pocket. GPS helps link you to Google Maps... find the nearest pizza joint and call it. Accelerometers can tell if you've got the thing to your ear, holding it out to see a contact list, or putting it on its side to watch a widescreen movie. And that touch-screen interface is... god, I have to find a good video of the presentation. It does that 'two-fingered zoom' that UI braniacs have been gibbering about for a while now.
Ouch! $600 w/ 2-year contract for the 8GB phone!I am certain the hardware alone would be pushing a grand. It ain't cheap, ouch is right, but (1.) Apple products command a premium for good design, and in this iPhone, I dare say they've revolutionized mobile devices, period, and (2.) comparing it to the best "smartphones" out there... it's no comparison. I love, love, love my Treo, but it was $649 without a plan. Makes the iPhone look like a steal.
Heh. One of the images Jobs used showed an entry for "Steve's iPhone, 8.0 GB, 408-996-1010". Of course, it's not Jobs' actual iPhone number, it's the main listing for Apple.What I really enjoyed was that part of Steve's live demo of the iPhone included him e-mailing his marketing head a photo of Hawaii (http://www.hawaiinews.com/archives/technology/000428.shtml)!

[Glen Miyashiro]

I'm still reeling. It's OSX in your pocket. GPS helps link you to Google Maps... find the nearest pizza joint and call it. Accelerometers can tell if you've got the thing to your ear, holding it out to see a contact list, or putting it on its side to watch a widescreen movie. And that touch-screen interface is... god, I have to find a good video of the presentation. It does that 'two-fingered zoom' that UI braniacs have been gibbering about for a while now.

I think this (http://www.apple.com/quicktime/qtv/showtime06/) is where Apple's official video is supposed to go... but it's not up yet.

[zff]

The phone is up on Apple's site now. Be patient, their site's getting hammered.

[pzarquon]

Here's the iPhone page (http://www.apple.com/iphone/). You can watch the keynote (http://www.apple.com/iphone/keynote/). You can sign up (http://www.hawaiithreads.com/apple.com/iphone/signup/) to get e-mail updates. You can... {faints}

[zff]

There are several little Quicktime animations showing how the iPhone's UI works. VERY VERY cool.

[Kungpao]

Here's the iPhone page (http://www.apple.com/iphone/). You can watch the keynote (http://www.apple.com/iphone/keynote/). You can sign up (http://www.hawaiithreads.com/apple.com/iphone/signup/) to get e-mail updates. You can... {faints}


hahahaha... I know right?!? I'm already thinking of ways to get out of my sprint contract lol

[adrian]

Ouch! $600 w/ 2-year contract for the 8GB phone! What the hell, I still want one. :D Gotta wait 'till June, though. :(
but... but... it runs OSX!!!

[pzarquon]

There are several little Quicktime animations showing how the iPhone's UI works. VERY VERY cool.Seriously. Check out the "Internet (http://www.apple.com/iphone/internet/)" section, as just one example (and they're all great). I mean... I don't care if you're a Mac hater, you have got to be impressed.

Damn straight it runs OSX. I mean, the big picture is hard to ignore. If the iPod was the "gateway drug" to put more Macs and OSX into everyone's homes (half of the record Mac sales in the past year were to new Mac users, not "Kool-Aid drinkers"), I can easily see the iPhone doing the same thing from the mobile device market. True, it's a mature market versus where music players were when the iPod debuted, but I'm thinking the iPhone and "everything else" are completely different categories right now.

And heck, the fact that "Apple Computer, Inc." is now just "Apple, Inc." tells you that selling Macs -- although they're doing great at it right now -- isn't even their endgame. World domination, maybe? :p

[Hellbent]

wow. i want one.
i and i just upgraded my phone last week.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Holy Mother of God.

The Dismantling of Palm in Pua'i's Life Begins...

I wonder if it is going to work with my entourage, or shall I convert (groan) to iCal/iMail? The thing that entourage gives that iCal doesn't is the Project Management component, which are *really* worthwhile.

[Pomai]

What I really enjoyed was that part of Steve's live demo of the iPhone included him e-mailing his marketing head a photo of Hawaii (http://www.hawaiinews.com/archives/technology/000428.shtml)!Also, on Apple's iPhone site QT demo, under: internet device (http://www.apple.com/iphone/internet/) > widgets > weather, one of the reports displayed is for Kailua, Kona (72 degrees).

[pzarquon]

Holy Mother of God. The Dismantling of Palm in Pua'i's Life Begins...I know. I know. I love my Treo 700p. Evangelize it to all I know. But this morning, it shed a little tear. :(

I love that there was only one negative response to Steve's keynote (apart from the brief Cingular commercial) -- when he said the iPhone would be available in June. That gives me and my Treo some quality time...

Fortunately, I have relatives that covet the Treo, so I'm certain my current device will find a good home. I'm mostly miffed that I'm going to have to switch carriers if I'm going to have a first run iPhone. I've been with Sprint for almost forever.

[zff]

I wonder how much an unlocked one will go for and when they'll start appearing.... A 2-year commitment seems awfully long for something that only has 8GB. :D

[Pua'i Mana'o]

I know. I know. I love my Treo 700p. Evangelize it to all I know. But this morning, it shed a little tear. :(

I love that there was only one negative response to Steve's keynote (apart from the brief Cingular commercial) -- when he said the iPhone would be available in June. That gives me and my Treo some quality time...

Fortunately, I have relatives that covet the Treo, so I'm certain my current device will find a good home. I'm mostly miffed that I'm going to have to switch carriers if I'm going to have a first run iPhone. I've been with Sprint for almost forever.

allow me my peeve:

I have been with TMobile since they were Voicestream. A display of customer loyalty unheard of, if one measures it in cellular years. This decision has been twofold: their rates are the cheapest, and I have never had an unhappy customer service experience, either in-store, or toll-free. I understand what they can and cannot do, and for the most part, get my way, or am happy on the compromise. My treo 270 and 600 were bought through TMobile, and I was unhappy to buy my 650 from Palm, because when it came to repairing/replacing the 270 and 600 (my phones have an annoying habit of committing suicide from high places), TMobile *rocked*. As the rest of my family's phones are also from TMobile, I can say that their policies are still in place.

Why would I want to switch? I have avoided such decisions because a)there are (usually) unlocked versions of the phone I want (except the 700p that I was entertaining...hello, 680, but a switchdown on phones? Wassup wit dat? Are we talking a John Deere from Home Depot, where it isn't really a solid John Deere??? Digressing...) and b)its still cheaper than the other companies.

Buuuutttt....I am just not a sidekick kinda gal. I *work*. And I work on Mac OSX. It has bothered me that TMobile didn't work out any more deals with Palm, and limited their business market to only Blackberry products, and not a very good selection at that. Over the years, Verizon and Cingular have caught my eye because they aggressively promote my demographic. Their phones and services tailor to what I want. I just don't want to pay what they charge.

I would think, that TMobile being the more blingy/funky company that they are, they SHOULD go after Apple and sell this phone. The fit makes sense. Leave the Crackberries to the Corporate Horses™ that Verizon and Cingular are, and go after. I want TMobile to give me my damned latte and apple iphone while I sit here in my black turtleneck and surf cool web pages listening to Swing Out Sister. :cool:

Now.

[zff]

I have been with TMobile since they were Voicestream.Same here! I only buy unlocked GSM phones, so the only contract I've ever been in with TMobile/Voicestream is the one I signed up for when I got my first phone. That's gotta be over a decade now without any obligation to stay. I should get a free phone or something. :D

[pzarquon]

The video demo of the photo features includes an example of the "two-finger zoom (http://www.apple.com/iphone/phone/?feature=feature04)" action I mentioned earlier. Also, as you browse the other demos, you'll see that the UI has inertia. I don't know what else to call it, but it's fantastic. You tap the screen and flip your finger downward on the contact list (http://www.apple.com/iphone/phone/?feature=feature01), and it basically freewheels, or spins. Same deal when scrolling through album covers (http://www.apple.com/iphone/ipod/?feature=feature01) in your music collection. This is insane.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Same here! I only buy unlocked GSM phones, so the only contract I've ever been in with TMobile/Voicestream is the one I signed up for when I got my first phone. That's gotta be over a decade now without any obligation to stay. I should get a free phone or something. :D

you and I are known as "Platinum" customers. Check out what that means. What I WANT it to mean is, "here's yer apple phone, PM!"

[Palolo Joe]

you and I are known as "Platinum" customers. Check out what that means. What I WANT it to mean is, "here's yer apple phone, PM!"

Would you like some cheese with that whine?

Go buy a T-Mobile MDA. It's a full-featured PDA-style phone that's an adult version of the Sidekick.

Only thing is, it runs on a Microsoft OS, not OSX.

That said... I SOOOOOO WANT AN iPHONE!!!

[Miulang]

you and I are known as "Platinum" customers. Check out what that means. What I WANT it to mean is, "here's yer apple phone, PM!"
Yes, I must congratulate both of you on being such loyal T-Mobile customers. I had a job interview recently with one of the groups that manages their call centers and they did remark that their #1 priority was to keep their customers happy. With the huge churn rates that happen whenever the next new phone or service crops up, it's pretty amazing to find customers who stick with a cellular phone carrier for longer than the contract period.

Miulang

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Would you like some cheese with that whine?

Go buy a T-Mobile MDA. It's a full-featured PDA-style phone that's an adult version of the Sidekick.

Only thing is, it runs on a Microsoft OS, not OSX.

You think THAT'S a whine? No, my previous bleedout much more qualifies.

I've looked at the mda, actually. It, along with the blackberry, can be configured to work with MacOSX if I install MacSync, which I have also considered purchasing at one time or another.

Do you have an MDA? I don't know anyone who owns one, and would prefer to hear him/her evangelize/gripe on its features/limitations.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Yes, I must congratulate both of you on being such loyal T-Mobile customers. I had a job interview recently with one of the groups that manages their call centers and they did remark that their #1 priority was to keep their customers happy. With the huge churn rates that happen whenever the next new phone or service crops up, it's pretty amazing to find customers who stick with a cellular phone carrier for longer than the contract period.

Miulang

To be frank, I am loyal to my wallet. I am happy with TMobile in all areas except selection. My husband and children are all razorheads, so they've nothing to complain about.

[Palolo Joe]

You think THAT'S a whine? No, my previous bleedout much more qualifies.

I've looked at the mda, actually. It, along with the blackberry, can be configured to work with MacOSX if I install MacSync, which I have also considered purchasing at one time or another.

Do you have an MDA? I don't know anyone who owns one, and would prefer to hear him/her evangelize/gripe on its features/limitations.

Yes... but I was too lazy to quote it. :D

I've owned all three versions of the Sidekick, plus a MDA and a Blackberry. I liked the MDA the best, until a friend dropped it (I had just canceled my phone insurance the week before).

Now I have a plain old regular phone. So boring.

[tvguy]

Cingular has an exclusive contract til 2009.

http://money.cnn.com/2007/01/09/technology/apple_jobs/index.htm?cnn=yes

Cingular, a unit of AT&T (up $0.13 to $33.94, Charts), will be Apple's sole U.S. partner. It's an exclusive multiyear agreement, which means no other carrier will be able to sell the iPhone through 2009.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Cingular has an exclusive contract til 2009.

http://money.cnn.com/2007/01/09/technology/apple_jobs/index.htm?cnn=yes

Cingular, a unit of AT&T (up $0.13 to $33.94, Charts), will be Apple's sole U.S. partner. It's an exclusive multiyear agreement, which means no other carrier will be able to sell the iPhone through 2009.

<foams at the mouth>

[Jonah K]

Cingular has an exclusive contract til 2009.

http://money.cnn.com/2007/01/09/technology/apple_jobs/index.htm?cnn=yes

Cingular, a unit of AT&T (up $0.13 to $33.94, Charts), will be Apple's sole U.S. partner. It's an exclusive multiyear agreement, which means no other carrier will be able to sell the iPhone through 2009.
I'm glad that I own some Apple stock...it went up $7.10 per share (to $92.57) today. I can hardly wait until the "early adopters" (myself included) begin finding the iPhone's bugs in June. :D

[mel]

OK. I looked at and read about the Apple iPhone (http://www.apple.com/iphone/) and the new Apple TV devices. Cool as one can usually expect from Apple.

The bigger news to me is the fact that Steve Jobs said that Apple Computer is no more and that Apple is now "Apple Inc." Today marks a shift from the bread and butter Macintosh (http://www.apple.com/getamac/) computers Apple has been so well known for and moving more to entertainment and communications. I know the money is in the iPod, iTunes (http://www.apple.com/itunes/) and the entertainment derivatives. I hope the iPhone and AppleTV are raving successes too. Time will tell.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

I downloaded and watched the whole iphone intro off of apple's website, inspiring me to think about the features of my treo which I find most useful. My thoughts on what I like about the iPhone, and the functions I need:

-Documents to Go: because of inter-isle work-related travel, I appreciate the ability to download xls, doc and pdf files onto my treo. From itineraries to taking notes, nothing beats the next-to-nothing weight of a cellphone and a foldup keyboard in my purse. No luggage/computer bag hassles in the airport, nor left in the car if I try to sneak a 1/2 hr in Ala Moana, Ward Centre or CompUSA. The thing that makes my phone "smart" to me is the real ability to leave my computer behind. That requires a work suite, and outside of the calendar and email features, I saw nothing for memos on the iPhone.

-Music needs: except for exercise, I am not comfortable chilling on an ipod, especially because it means I will check out from whatever is going on around me. At home, I don't like to be so disengaged from my hubby/kids, and in public, I am too aware of my surroundings to be comfortable. Music is so powerful to me, that I limit my exposure to it. It IS perfect during exercise.

-I am highly interested in the iPhone's internet browser capabilities, and curious about media-rich sites with shockwave, etc.

-I paid particular attention to how SJ typed his text. I am a dual-thumb thumboard demon, relying comfortably on the middle parts of my thumbs to feel&type. I am not too sure about the precision of the iPhone's keyboard.

-I didn't see any ports for add-ons and guess that all future accessories will be bluetooth-enabled (e.g. foldup keyboards).

[GeckoGeek]

Looks like they've worked out a deal with Cisco.

Ah, so that announcement (http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satellite?c=L_News_C2&childpagename=US%2FLayout&cid=1165633352046&pagename=Linksys%2FCommon%2FVisitorWrapper) last month by Linksys about their iPhone was maybe just a move to drive up the price of the trademark? :rolleyes:

[GeckoGeek]

Cingular has an exclusive contract til 2009.

Well, doesn't that just suck.

Does anyone know if Cingular allows the phones to roam onto other provider's networks? Who else runs the same format?

I know Sprint allows you to roam onto Verizon. Verizon I think still allows roaming onto Sprint, except last I heard they pulled the local Sprint from the PRL. Because of that I haven't updated in years. :mad:

The new iPhone is very interesting, but I'll have to wait and see just how well the features work for actually doing work instead of entertainment. The thumb board is one thing I'm very interested in seeing how it works.

[Palolo Joe]

Well, doesn't that just suck.

Does anyone know if Cingular allows the phones to roam onto other provider's networks? Who else runs the same format?

T-Mobile uses the same GSM standard that the iPhone operates on.

Once it hits retail, expect a short wait before "unlocked" versions of the phone show up on the Internet.

If you have a GSM SIM card (as all T-Mobile and Cingular customers do), you're good to go. Unfortunately, Sprint/Nextel and Verizon customers are SOL until 2009.

And PM... I think you've already convinced yourself the iPhone is just not for you. Stick with your Treo... you'll definitely be happier with it.

[pzarquon]

A phone that does everything is no good to you if you don't really want to do everything, and the smartphone category is infamous for "phone and PDA" combos that do neither "phone" nor "PDA" well. And, you know, the iPhone in June will be a first generation piece of hardware... basically a minefield for Apple, and territory best explored only by the most hardcore fanboy.

I may be one such fanboy, of course.

I use a Treo, but every users needs can be different. For me, I use it maybe 65 percent of the time to check e-mail, 15 of the time to browse the web, 10 percent of the time to handle scheduling and contacts, and a begrudging last 10 percent of the time as a phone. Meanwhile, I carry a separate iPod, mostly to listen to podcasts. I am also a Mac guy at home, and while the Treo-Mac link is pretty solid (courtesy third-party utilities), it has always felt kludgy.

Before my Treo, I had a Visor Prism PDA and a Samsung cell phone, and loved that the Treo combined those things. With the iPhone, two more devices I carry around separately (making me look like a short, squat, dorky Batman wannabe) are further combined. I mostly listen to podcasts, now, after all, so 8GB is perfect. Plus when it comes to syncing, everything will be native, pure Mac. Not to mention the fantastic UI, the "Internet Communicator" features (which the Treo does, but reluctantly), the rich e-mail and web, the...

Anyway. My dad loves his Treo, and I'd never recommend an iPhone. But for some geeks, I think it'll definitely be close to what some are calling "The Jesus Phone." :p

[Fat Jeff]

So frustrating...I've been jonesing for a widescreen Ipod. What I didn't want was a phone attached to it, especially a phone linked only to Cingular. Plus, what good is a video Ipod with only 8 gig of memory?

I'm looking forward to the 4th quarter release of the spinoff 80 gig video Ipod*. Apple can keep the phone (no matter how cool).

*purely my speculation

[pzarquon]

Oh, there'll definitely be an iPhone sans phone, a.k.a. the long-awaited widescreen iPod. But with a likely price point of $299, it's obvious Apple doesn't want to cannibalize $599 iPhone sales (not many folks would get an 8GB iPhone with Cingular if you could get a 60GB wide-screen, touch-screen video iPod for less).

Meanwhile, the iPhone hangover is setting in, blogs now all abuzz with what's wrong with the new device. No installable software, poor battery life, and the limitations of a touch screen interface (even on my Treo, dialing via the screen versus tactile buttons is a crapshoot).

For me, at least, I still think the iPhone would work. Or maybe I need another few weeks for the "HOLY CRAP" reaction to fade from my brainpan.

[Hellbent]

With the huge churn rates that happen whenever the next new phone or service crops up, it's pretty amazing to find customers who stick with a cellular phone carrier for longer than the contract period.

Miulang

I dont think its that amazing. unless you get bad reception or pay too much, i think most stay with a plan. these 2 year contracts theyre pushing with only 1 year warranty is for suckers tho.

any word on buying itunes over iphone edge or wifi enabled or will it be like the irokr?
this phone looks badass.
i wonder if the unlocked versions will be able to support all the features?

[Pua'i Mana'o]

after watching the whole ipod intro on quicktime, I get it why there needs to be an exclusive cell carrier. One feature is the ability to scroll through voicemail to select messages. Currently no such option exists with any cell carrier, so to get one on board to ramp up their technology must have meant some good wheeling/dealing. Kudos to Apple and Cingular for stepping up to that plate.

Hangovers might be all the blog rage, but the bloggers gotta confess that the iPhone still gave a stellar first impression! And time will tell what the 3rd parties will dream up to add on to the phone, as well as how full-featured future versions of iTunes will become, considering that iTunes is the sync conduit for the iPhone. I cannot wait for June to visit the Apple Store and play with it.

[NoCal Boy]

Looks like they've worked out a deal with Cisco.

Hold the (i)Phone!!!

(Sorry, couldn't resist..)

Maybe not:
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2007/01/10/financial/f151203S78.DTL

[tutusue]

After this thread ramped up yesterday I skipped across the parking lot to MacMouse. Rolf gave me a big screen tour of the iPhone. Wow! My Cingular contract is up in a couple of weeks and I'm probably switching to Hawaiian Telcom. But...hold the fort! Should I or shouldn't I? I mean, even this untechie tutu who is normally not overly enthusiastic about buying and learning the newest technology gave pause to reupping with Cingular and waiting impatiently for June.

That was yesterday! After a decent night's sleep, my senses returned! I don't need an iPhone and if I got one I wouldn't use the majority of the features. I'll wait a coupla years and see what happens to the price and my needs.

[Pomai]

Hold the (i)Phone!!!
Maybe not:
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2007/01/10/financial/f151203S78.DTL
(Cisco Sues Apple Over Use of iPhone Name)

Heh. Well Steve Jobs has been said to be a notoriously combative exec' behind closed doors, so that's hardly surprising.

Perhaps Apple should have taken the "iPhone" concept one level further and introduced it simply as the succeeding (2007) iPod model. Done deal. Never mind that whimpy 8 gig hard drive (for a rediculous $500!). Make the case a little thicker and include a full-sized 80-gig HD. This would truly make it a "Jack of all trades" device. Not only would that attract celphone customers, it would also tempt current iPod/MP3 device users to trade in their current wares for the new '07 iPod just to have the enhanced touch-screen interface and video capability. THAT would be worth $500.

Still, with Apple Inc. striving to diversify their image, it's no wonder they're so insistent on introducing an "iPhone" into their product stable.

[pzarquon]

Good point, PM, about some reasons for the Cingular lock-in, particularly the non-linear voicemail thing. Unlike other handset makers, Apple wasn't going to let the provider dictate features. Whoever signed on had to know they'd be answering to Apple's whims, not vice versa, and that's gotta count for a lot.

Here's a video from CBS News with a hands-on demo of the iPhone (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgW7or1TuFk). It's one thing to see the slick Quicktime animations on the Apple site, which of course they could perfect and slick-up as much as they like, and another to see it in someone's hands, operating as promised.

I love that freewheeling spin thing.

As for the Cisco/Apple spat over " iPhone" -- it is interesting. Most folks are saying it's a slam dunk for Cisco. Not only do they own the trademark, and have the first product to market with the name, but Apple is (presumably) on record has having actively negotiated with them over use of the name, too.

But I do think it could be a tough fight for Cisco, even if they win. I mean, people have been callng the Apple iPhone the iPhone for years, and that's before the product was announced. It was the buzz of the tech press for the last six months, again under the iPhone name. In the public's eye, the default name for any Apple cell phone was iPhone, and that's a lot of inertia for Cisco to overcome. Even if Cisco wins, and the Apple iPhone becomes the Apple iTalkPro or something... you bet your sweet bippy people will still call it the iPhone.

I'm pretty sure from a marketing standpoint, Cisco knows it'd be easier to just sell the name and rename its own obscure product.

But, it's the principle of the thing. And bigger companies have had to face the music over similar issues. Microsoft had to settle over a small company's claim on "Internet Explorer (http://management.silicon.com/government/0,39024677,11001454,00.htm)," and Google had to give up "Gmail (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/10/19/gmail_trademark_dispute/)" in the UK. Cisco is a slightly bigger adversary than those two faced!

[GeckoGeek]

A phone that does everything is no good to you if you don't really want to do everything, and the smartphone category is infamous for "phone and PDA" combos that do neither "phone" nor "PDA" well.

I agree with what you've said. However, I don't think I want to sell Steve Job's short. Apple always seems to come up with good user designs.

BUT......

My question is how well does it do business apps? Word and Excel files? Integrate with corporate email and applications? The reason I ask is the Treo and Blackberry owners I know have them paid or at least subsidized by their company. What I see with the Apple iPhone is an entertainment device. How many are really going to pay that much for it when it's on their own dime? And how much is the service? I'll bet it's a lot more then just basic phone service. Even if people are willing to pony up for the device, will the pay for the expensive service too? Another hit if it's not well suited for business. Yes, Apple makes great user interfaces, but I think they've always struggled to make inroads to corporate America. Is this a continuation of both past successes and failures?

[pzarquon]

The iPhone is pretty much a consumer device. It's a "high-end" phone, but more for the people who buy iPods and not those who buy (or rather, whose companies buy) Blackberrys. The business press is already pooh-pooing the iPhone because of the lack of business apps in the demo, but I really don't think they're Apple's target right now. Which isn't to say RIM shouldn't worry... depending on how robust the OSX derivative is on the iPhone, it very well could have Office for Mac Lite 2008 on it someday.

For the perspective of PalmOne Treo owners on the iPhone, here's a good overview (http://www.treocentral.com/content/Stories/1047-1.htm) from Treocentral. They basically say Treo still has a future, but it will probably have to cede the high-end consumer market (which they were only in briefly) and go back to targeting RIM on the business front.

Meanwhile, the iPhone trademark battle continues. Lots of people are pointing to other products called the iPhone (http://blogs.barrons.com/techtraderdaily/2006/12/15/so-uh-the-apple-iphone-is-coming-monday-maybe/). Apple's VP for global communications says (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/11/technology/11apple.html), "We believe that Cisco’s U.S. trademark is tenuous at best... We are the first company to use the iPhone name for a cellphone and we’re confident we will prevail." An Apple spokeswoman says, "We think Cisco's trademark suit is silly... We believe (Cisco's) trademark registration is tenuous at best."

And trademark experts are coming out of the woodwork... one key piece of caselaw saying that trademarks can be deemed "abandoned" if unused for three or more years. So even if Cisco bought the company that had an iPhone product in 1997... releasing an iPhone in 2006 may have been too late to assert continuous ownership. Especially since the media had been babbling about Apple's imminent iPhone's announcement for years.

Finally, a few folks have made the same point I did... that even if Apple throws up its hands today and says, "Okay, it's the Apple Phone," 99.789 percent of people will still call it the iPhone. Which means Apple owns it, even if they don't. Genius!

[Pua'i Mana'o]

I'd think that ePhone might be better suited; e for entertainment/enjoy/experience/choke extras. Or even the ePod; consider that this is being marketed as a phone, which is sooooo smartphonish (read: last century). What the hell is it? A pod in the hand. What can it do? eVerything.**

A part of me is dreaming about how buff iTunes is going to become as a communications portal. Is it just about the tunes anymore? What will it be renamed as?


**Trademarked to Pua'i ©2007 :D :D

[GeckoGeek]

The iPhone is pretty much a consumer device. It's a "high-end" phone, but more for the people who buy iPods and not those who buy (or rather, whose companies buy) Blackberrys.

Well then, I think costs will keep sales down. That and the lock to one carrier.


We are the first company to use the iPhone name for a cellphone and we’re confident we will prevail

If it was so tenuous why were they negotiating? Not unless they thought they might get it at a lowball price. Frankly I see arrogance after winning against Apple Records. They're saying in effect that a cell phone is a different market then a regular phone or a IP phone, so it can use the same name. That's how they defeated Apple Records. I doubt if the courts are going to see it that way this time around. The test is consumer confusion. Cells phones are too much like other phones. Trademarks aren't going to share.

[joshuatree]

Meanwhile, the iPhone trademark battle continues. Lots of people are pointing to other products called the iPhone (http://blogs.barrons.com/techtraderdaily/2006/12/15/so-uh-the-apple-iphone-is-coming-monday-maybe/). Apple's VP for global communications says (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/11/technology/11apple.html), "We believe that Cisco’s U.S. trademark is tenuous at best... We are the first company to use the iPhone name for a cellphone and we’re confident we will prevail." An Apple spokeswoman says, "We think Cisco's trademark suit is silly... We believe (Cisco's) trademark registration is tenuous at best."

I don't know about that. Even if it took them 9 years from 97 to 06 to release the Linksys iPhone family line, Cisco still did it first compared to Apple, assuming the Cisco abandoned the trademark registration argument. Plus, Cisco has had their Unifed IP Phones for years.

The media may have babbled about Apple's iPhone for years but the media is not Apple so up till a couple days ago, no one knew for certain what the offical product name is. So argument that media called Apple's iPhone for years gives it creditability doesn't hold much water.

[pzarquon]

There are other iPhones, but the other examples are better targets for a Cisco infringement lawsuit, since those are IP telephony specific, versus the Apple iPhone, which is an iPod/cellular phone hybrid. Along with the abandonment claim, Apple might argue that Cisco didn't defend its trademark against those other products, so it's moot to start crying now.

As for the fact that 'iPhone' was a widely covered Apple product name in the media... I wouldn't so much say it's a good legal argument, and if it goes to court, Cisco would probably win. But it's a common sense practical argument. If Apple renames it the Apple Phone today, it'll still be the iPhone to most people.

[joshuatree]

There are other iPhones, but the other examples are better targets for a Cisco infringement lawsuit, since those are IP telephony specific, versus the Apple iPhone, which is an iPod/cellular phone hybrid. Along with the abandonment claim, Apple might argue that Cisco didn't defend its trademark against those other products, so it's moot to start crying now.

As for the fact that 'iPhone' was a widely covered Apple product name in the media... I wouldn't so much say it's a good legal argument, and if it goes to court, Cisco would probably win. But it's a common sense practical argument. If Apple renames it the Apple Phone today, it'll still be the iPhone to most people.

But one can also argue that Apple's iPhone can also be IP telephony since you can run wifi on it and run Skype for instance.

From Red Herring, it appears Apple asked for permission from Cisco in using "iPhone". If that is true, that would indicate Apple acknowledged who owned the name.

"Cisco entered into negotiations with Apple in good faith after Apple repeatedly asked permission to use Cisco's iPhone name," Cisco general counsel Mark Chandler said in a statement.

[tvguy]

What I see with the Apple iPhone is an entertainment device. How many are really going to pay that much for it when it's on their own dime? And how much is the service? I'll bet it's a lot more then just basic phone service. Even if people are willing to pony up for the device, will the pay for the expensive service too?

My understanding is that if you currently have basic phone service, you'll have to pay for the additional data services, just as you would now if you utilize some type of PDA. If you already have the data services, your rates wouldn't change much.

My impression is that the iPhone is meant to compete with the Blackberrys and Treos of the world by offering the same features, maybe more, and raising the ease of use factor. For me, the "synergy" between this product and my Mac gets me excited. One would hope that with a larger demand for the iPhone, the premium to pay for data services will go down due to the volume of customers.

That said, I know A LOT of people who only have a need for just A PHONE. No need for the camera, mp3 players, text messaging, just the ability to call somebody. Can't some manufacturer make something simpler? :p

Of course, I'm waiting for my iPhone........:D

[craigwatanabe]

so as long as your product doesn't look or function anywhere like another copyrighted product you can use the same name...right.

[pzarquon]

From Red Herring, it appears Apple asked for permission from Cisco in using "iPhone". If that is true, that would indicate Apple acknowledged who owned the name.Yup, noted previously (http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showpost.php?p=126267&postcount=96). Probably one of the better pieces of evidence Cisco has. If Apple was so sure their use of iPhone was in the clear, why bother asking, or negotiating for so long? Still, it probably came down to, "Maybe asking is easier than fighting," and when asking didn't work out, the gloves came off. Not uncommon in these things. The smart money is still on a settlement ("Apple iPhone" and "Cisco iPhone") and not a court battle, anyway.
so as long as your product doesn't look or function anywhere like another copyrighted product you can use the same name...right.Trademarks can be limited to an industry or product area. There are all kinds of companies that call themselves "Star," but one could make car seats, another radios, another clothes. This is also something that Apple Inc. (formerly Apple Computer, Inc.) knows well, after battling Apple Records (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Records). The latter was fine with Apple Inc.'s computers because they were in the music biz... but they balked when Apple Inc. entered the music business (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v_Apple_Computer), too.

[GeckoGeek]

The smart money is still on a settlement ("Apple iPhone" and "Cisco iPhone") and not a court battle, anyway.

Probably. I think it all comes down to each side's best guess on how much the courts will award Cisco and settle for that. Since we don't know what Cisco's offer was, it's hard to know if it was higher or lower then what a court might award. From Cisco's point of view, they're just maximizing income. They are not going to walk away from the name.


Trademarks can be limited to an industry or product area. There are all kinds of companies that call themselves "Star," but one could make car seats, another radios, another clothes. This is also something that Apple Inc. (formerly Apple Computer, Inc.) knows well, after battling Apple Records (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Records).

Absolutely true. And Apple, Inc. is trying to make the same argument for the iPhone. But I don't think the courts are going to buy it this time around and Apple knows it (but can't publicly admit it.)

[craigwatanabe]

I personally think that it's just bad to take someone elses name and use it for yourself. But then again this is Apple we're talking about. They sued Microsoft for the GUI desktop they said was theirs but then Xerox had claim to the GUI long before Apple adopted it, so it doesn't surprize me that Apple would try that tactic again with Cisco.

[Bard]

But one can also argue that Apple's iPhone can also be IP telephony since you can run wifi on it and run Skype for instance.

As it turns out, Jobs has been quoted as saying that they will not allow people to install their own software on the phone. Only through approved channels just like the iPod games (probably iTS actually). Sucks :( It looked like it had such geek potential but it's basically a very pretty dumb phone instead of a smart phone now.

[GeckoGeek]

As it turns out, Jobs has been quoted as saying that they will not allow people to install their own software on the phone.

Might be time to short Apple stock. Depends on how big Apple TV goes.

[Jonah K]

Might be time to short Apple stock. Depends on how big Apple TV goes.
It probably is. :D

It's relatively easy to make money with Apple stock by loading up on it a few days before Steve Jobs announces new products and then dumping it a day (or two) later after the initial "hype" dies down. ;)

[Fat Jeff]

With Apple dropping the "Computers" from their name, I think this signals Apple's change in direction to being a more rounded consumer electronics company ala Sony. While they have made strides in the computer marketshare, they made a killing with Ipods & Itunes sales (and generating a nice profit while at it). Now they are getting into phones and what's next? Judging by the "oohs" and "aaahs" their Cinematic monitors get at the Apple Store, I wouldn't be surprised to see a Apple branded flat screen TV. There are lots of consumer electronic items that could get the Apple treatment...ie good function bundled with stylish appearance and unique interface.

The future could be a whole new ball of wax for the Cupertino crew.

[Leo Lakio]

Wanted to throw in a comment I got from a friend of a friend in Japan (not my words, not necessarily my viewpoint, but another perspective nonetheless):
I laugh at the i-phone. What can mobile phones in Japan do? You can watch TV, they have GPS, you can download music, including songs from your favorite recording artists for ring tones, play on-line games, make conference calls, access the internet, send e-mail, send sky mail, take pictures, add things to the pictures, e-mail pictures, make the pictures different sizes, take video, play said video back on either your computer or TV, make purchases at your local shop, buy tickets, reserve hotel rooms - and what does the i-phone offer? 5 year old Asian technology. I bet you can't wait to buy one for $600.00; while my phone cost about $110.00A-hem!

[pzarquon]

Though I know the whole Cisco v. Apple trademark dispute over the name 'iPhone' isn't particularly interesting to lots of folks, I just had to link this analysis of how Cisco may have blew it (http://blogs.zdnet.com/Burnette/?p=236). They missed the six-year deadline, and just before their six-month grace period also lapsed, they literally slapped a sticker that said 'iPhone' on an existing product box and submitted that as evidence of use. It's so ridiculous, it's hilarious.

Indeed, Cisco just renamed an existing product that already had a name with its big announcement of the iPhone last month. Apparently the product manuals don't yet reflect the new name for the device.

If Apple can prove Cisco misrepresented its use of the name, the trademark can be canceled, and the name can go to the next filer... a mysterious overseas company named Ocean Telecom Services LLC that Cisco asserts is just a front for Apple.

[hawaiihopeful]

I think Cisco is certainly reaching - and it's unfortunate that Apple has to deal with so many lawsuits now that it's doing well. Apple vs. Apple records? C'mon. But I think the great thing about Apple Inc. is that it always tends to make nice with the companies afterward - witness the showing of Beatles albums during the iPhone presentation. Sure to hear about the long-pursued Beatles albums to finally become digital downloads.

I can't personally justify getting an iPhone, but my birthday's in September, if anyone's feeling generous!:)

I can't wait for the next generation of iPods, however. Widescreen with accelerators and likely to be touch screen?! The Zune will be buried before it even reaches maturity. But like mentioned before, this won't likely happen anytime soon, because of the cannibalisation effect of the iPhone. Hopefully by December...

Meanwhile, my 20 gig photo iPod will do just fine...

[LocalMotion]

That said, I know A LOT of people who only have a need for just A PHONE. No need for the camera, mp3 players, text messaging, just the ability to call somebody. Can't some manufacturer make something simpler? :p

Of course, I'm waiting for my iPhone........:D


can you say iPhone Nano? :D

[Beachboy]

Wow, did you guys happen the see the MACWORLD announcements? I love everything about the iPhone except it's price!:(

http://images.apple.com/iphone/images/indexhero20070109.jpg

[reineke]

At 4GB for 500 smackers no thanks...

[Miulang]

That little dustup between Cisco and Apple (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17268277/)over the name "iPhone" apparently has ended amicably with Cisco allowing Apple to use the name "iPhone" for its product in exchange for future "interoperability" between the Apple product and Cisco products.

The companies said Wednesday they reached an agreement that will allow Apple to use the name for its sleek new multimedia device in exchange for exploring wide-ranging "interoperability" between the companies' products in the areas of security, consumer and business communications.

Ahhh, a marriage made in heaven.:rolleyes: If Steve Jobs doesn't watch out, Cisco will be buying him out soon.

Miulang

[craigwatanabe]

You know those new Mac commercials that are running make me feel as if Apple has become the smug company. Apple has to realize that their profitablity isn't from Mac sales but from iPods. And with Vista, many of Apple's utilities aren't compatible with MS including Quicktime.

I think this smugness is gonna backfire on Apple as they become larger and larger. It's just a matter of time until someone get's upset with a Mac and will hack their OS.

[Miulang]

You know those new Mac commercials that are running make me feel as if Apple has become the smug company. Apple has to realize that their profitablity isn't from Mac sales but from iPods. And with Vista, many of Apple's utilities aren't compatible with MS including Quicktime.

I think this smugness is gonna backfire on Apple as they become larger and larger. It's just a matter of time until someone get's upset with a Mac and will hack their OS.
Cisco's worth a hell of a lot more than Apple, and Cisco is still trying to keep up with Microsoft. So if Cisco can eventually "take over" everything but the computer (hardware) part of Apple, that would be a good thing for them. They need to look for ways to break into the consumer market. Right now, most of their business is in the business sector.

Miulang

[pzarquon]

Yesterday brought a good chunk of Apple news... specifically not related to the iPhone or iPod.

They unveiled a redesigned iMac (http://www.apple.com/imac/) (prompting a redesigned keyboard (http://www.apple.com/keyboard/)). They released major upgrades to their iLife (http://www.apple.com/ilife/) and iWork (http://www.apple.com/iwork/) software suites (including a significant revision to iMovie (http://www.apple.com/ilife/imovie/) and the long-awaited spreadsheet application, Numbers (http://www.apple.com/iwork/numbers/)). They even bumped up the specs on the oft overlooked Mac mini (http://www.apple.com/macmini/).

The keyboard announcement gave me one of those forehead-smacking Apple upgrade moments. Because I had just bought one on Sunday (http://www.lightfantastic.org/imr/extras/weblog/archives/005079.html).

I think most folks are more excited about the software updates than the hardware revisions. iMovie in particular could be a big deal (as if it wasn't already in the consumer video space). And Pages, their layout app, is simplified to be a decent word processor. Numbers? It ain't no Excel in power, but in usability? It could be awesome.

[helen]

Did the eariler versions of the Mac mini had a firewire port on it?

[acousticlady]

Did the eariler versions of the Mac mini had a firewire port on it?

Yes, at least the ones used in my school do.

[tutusue]

Does the new keyboard work with a non-intel Mac?

[pzarquon]

Does the new keyboard work with a non-intel Mac?I'm thinking they should. I know people who bought Apple's USB keyboards to use on Windows machines! A USB keyboard is generally a USB keyboard.

The only caveat is, it sounds like this new keyboard has some buttons dedicated to specific software functions that may only exist in current versions of OSX. Perhaps the keyboard will come with a driver that will let you change/assign what these buttons do, or maybe they'll just be nonfunctional, but the majority of what you need a basic keyboard for will be covered.

[Palolo Joe]

I'm excited that Apple beefed up the storage space they provide with .Mac accounts.

10 GB of storage (plus all the other .Mac amenities) for $99 a year? That might be enough to get me to sign up.

[tutusue]

I'm thinking they should. I know people who bought Apple's USB keyboards to use on Windows machines! A USB keyboard is generally a USB keyboard.

The only caveat is, it sounds like this new keyboard has some buttons dedicated to specific software functions that may only exist in current versions of OSX. Perhaps the keyboard will come with a driver that will let you change/assign what these buttons do, or maybe they'll just be nonfunctional, but the majority of what you need a basic keyboard for will be covered.
I was kinda looking at the wireless version and the Mighty Mouse thinking how nice it would be to hook up my laptop to my new 40" TV then sit across the room on a comfy sofa with the keyboard, mouse and a great, big screen! Yes, the height of laziness! :D

I did notice that the OS requirement is 10.4.10 which I have.

[Paul Ogata]

I think most folks are more excited about the software updates than the hardware revisions. iMovie in particular could be a big deal (as if it wasn't already in the consumer video space). And Pages, their layout app, is simplified to be a decent word processor. Numbers? It ain't no Excel in power, but in usability? It could be awesome.

The big thing with iMovie '08 is the ability to import from AVCHD, the format which hard-drive cameras use. I returned a Sony HD camcorder last year after finding out the hard way that it wasn't supported. This is really, really great news.

I'm looking forward to Numbers, as well. I used to enjoy AppleWorks, with its spreadsheet, word processing, drawing, painting and database apps. I made such great use of the DB part of AppleWorks... wonder when they'll bring that back?



I was kinda looking at the wireless version and the Mighty Mouse thinking how nice it would be to hook up my laptop to my new 40" TV then sit across the room on a comfy sofa with the keyboard, mouse and a great, big screen! Yes, the height of laziness! :D

Imagine the luxury of wearing one of those monitor/goggle thingies. You could just plop yourself in bed, lying down and watching movies, surfing the web, playing sudoku...

[adrian]

Imagine the luxury of wearing one of those monitor/goggle thingies. You could just plop yourself in bed, lying down and watching movies, surfing the web, playing sudoku...
Implant them onto glasses, and you can call me a real geek.

[mel]

The Mac Mini (http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/mac_mini/stats/mac_mini_g4_1.25.html) has always had at least 1 firewire port.

While the new iMacs look pretty cool what some Apple fans like me are missing is a midrange mini-tower (http://www.lowendmac.com/thomas/tt07/0713.html), similar to the long discontinued Power Mac G4 towers (http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g4/stats/powermac_g4_1.25_mdd.html) but of course with the latest processors. This would be for those who can't afford the really expensive MacPro but want the expandability and flexibility a tower has vs. that of an all in one iMac.

[tutusue]

[...]Imagine the luxury of wearing one of those monitor/goggle thingies. You could just plop yourself in bed, lying down and watching movies, surfing the web, playing sudoku...
I've tried the goggle thingies as a means to watch an on set monitor without standing in the midst of a gaggle of producers/crew/etc. I'll still opt for the big screen tv and the sofa. The sofa and the bed are one and the same! :D

[pzarquon]

Steve Jobs' keynote at MacWorld is on now (http://www.macrumorslive.com/).

New Airport Extreme with hard drive. New software for iPhones and the iPod Touch. Movie rentals via iTunes. Upgrades for Apple TV...

[pzarquon]

What've we got?

MacBook Air (http://www.apple.com/macbookair/). The world's thinnest notebook. 0.16" to 0.76" thick, 13.1" screen, 1.6MHz Core Duo, 2GB RAM, 80GB HD, five-hour battery life, $1799. Ships in two weeks. Beautiful.

iTunes Movie Rentals (http://www.apple.com/itunes/store/movies.html). Touchstone, Mirimax, MGM, Lionsgate, Newline, Fox, WB, Disney, Paramount, Universal & Sony are all on board. Available today.

Apple TV Upgrades (http://www.apple.com/appletv/). Shop and buy music or movies directly from your couch -- no computer required (finally!). Built-in, better audio and video podcast support. DVD- or HD-quality movie rentals. Photo slideshows off the web (Flickr and .Mac). Price drop to $229 (from $299) and a new 160GB model.

iPhone Software Update. Free software update that adds customizable home screen (including adding websites as icons, like Twitter!), geolocation on Google Maps, multi-contact SMS, and other goodies. SDK due on February.

iPod Touch Software Update. For $20 (?), you get Mail, Stocks, Notes, Weather, and Maps.

Airport Extreme Base Station with Hard Drive. 500GB - $299, 1TB - $499.

[sophielynette]

I'm excited for the iPhone software update. Geolocation! The MacBook Air looks really neat too. I was saying on another forum that it would be the perfect thing to take back and forth to school as a supplement to a main computer.

[scrivener]

iTunes Movie Rentals (http://www.apple.com/itunes/store/movies.html). Touchstone, Mirimax, MGM, Lionsgate, Newline, Fox, WB, Disney, Paramount, Universal & Sony are all on board. Available today.

I read somewhere that rentals aren't available until February. I looked for a rental option at the iTunes store, and couldn't find one.

[Glen Miyashiro]

I am guessing that the $20 iPod Touch upgrade must be purchased through the iTunes Store. But what if you don't want to set up an iTunes Store account? Is it possible to buy a $20 iTunes gift card and just use that, without registering?

[pzarquon]

You may be right. The iTunes and QuickTime software updates that are required to facilitate rentals are available now, but I guess they haven't flipped the switch in the store.

The updated iPhone software is available now, and I had it installed within an hour of the end of the keynote. The wiggly icons are pretty neat, and I've already created a page of web links adjacent to my home screen. And the geolocating Google Maps app is pretty cool, too. Pretty much nails the neighborhood using only AT&T cellular towers.

I'm hoping the Apple TV software update is also available today. I guess I'll have to wait until I get home to check.

If and when rentals come online, it's going to be a real test in our living room. Tivo+Amazon Unbox, Vudu, or Apple TV for movies? I gotta say, I'm glad to have all this competition in the living room, finally, fighting the cable companies.

As for the MacBook Air? Sexy! I've always been a fan of ultralight laptops (one of my favorite machines ever was an early generation Sony Vaio 505 series). I got it when I worked at a job with a lot of travel, and I loved being able to slip it anywhere you'd slip a couple of magazines. As long as you've got a "main" computer, I think the MacBook Air is a winner. No user replaceable battery (but Apple can replace it for the same price as a MacBook battery), and all the specs are frozen (no upgrades)... but people who do a lot of mobile computing will find it hard to resist!

[zztype]

I am guessing that the $20 iPod Touch upgrade must be purchased through the iTunes Store. But what if you don't want to set up an iTunes Store account? Is it possible to buy a $20 iTunes gift card and just use that, without registering?

No, you have to set up an account. Even if you have a gift card, in order to use it, you must set up an account. The purchases are tied to the account used to purchase them.

And (note to others) rentals were promised by the end of February.

[scrivener]

Rentals are available in the iTunes store now. I'm currently downloading Ratatouille for $3.99. It's 1.27 GB.

[pzarquon]

In about ten minutes, the "Stevenote" -- Steve Jobs' keynote -- will begin at the Worldwide Developers Conference. The usual geek frenzy has been building for weeks in anticipation of what might be announced, notably iPhone 2.0. Live internet covrage from MacRumors.com (http://www.macrumorslive.com/), Engadget (http://www.engadget.com/2008/06/09/steve-jobs-keynote-live-from-wwdc-2008/), and Gizmodo (http://live.gizmodo.com/). Let's see what turns up.

[joshuatree]

Looks like a cheaper iPhone with longer battery life and faster network speeds. Also possibly offering more business apps to compete with Blackberry. How do early adopters feel? This will be half of the original cost now right?

[Jetfixer]

Also looks like a higher media package price from AT&T. You end up paying more in the end.

[Eric]

MobileMe sounds like exactly what I have been looking for. Syncs with iCal and Outlook? If it can sync with Google Calendars too, then I am so there.

Now, to wait for the actual product to see if the reality matches the promises.

[mel]

Something is wrong in Cupertino when the new generation iPhone are cheaper than the iPod Touch....:eek:

[Quark]

Apple must be getting a cut off the service fees to be lower priced than the iPod Touch. Has anyone seen what the month service fee will be for the iPhone?

[Honoruru]

Apple must be getting a cut off the service fees to be lower priced than the iPod Touch. Has anyone seen what the month service fee will be for the iPhone?

This from the San Francisco Chronicle (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/06/10/BUEL115S0A.DTL&type=tech):

"AT&T remains the iPhone's exclusive service provider in the United States, with a two-year contract. It will offer voice plans starting at $39.99 per month plus unlimited 3G Internet service for $30 a month. That's a $10 increase from the cheapest plan for the earlier iPhone."

[Quark]

Thanks Honoruru. I guess that is the price for hi-speed internet where ever you go with your iPhone. Looks like I will be sticking to my limited wifi access iPod Touch.

[LocalMotion]

Something is wrong in Cupertino when the new generation iPhone are cheaper than the iPod Touch...

Apple must be getting a cut off the service fees to be lower priced than the iPod Touch. Has anyone seen what the month service fee will be for the iPhone?

Apple is still getting full price for the phone. AT&T is subsidizing it upfront with a 2-yr deal like they do other phones, it's just not being advertised that way. they gave up the revenue sharing to let AT&T subsidize it. they are looking to really get this phone in everyones hand. the $199 price point is amazing for this phone, and the analyst agree.

Now you HAVE to activate in the store (apple or att). they will not be sold online.

People that questioned apple goal of 10 million by the end of 2008 were thinking VERY short sighted. This phone will be sold in 70 countries in time for back to school and christmas

[mel]

If the iPod Touch continues at the present price and the iPhone is selling for less, it spells doom for the iPod Touch... unless Apple lowers the price of that device.

[LocalMotion]

If the iPod Touch continues at the present price and the iPhone is selling for less, it spells doom for the iPod Touch... unless Apple lowers the price of that device.

you don't need a 2yr contract to buy a Touch, and there are many people that don't want AT&T or need a smartphone...

BUT. it the $100 price different converts some Touch buyers to the iPhone, that's good for Apple since the iPhone is now going to become the biggest device for Apple.

[mel]

you don't need a 2yr contract to buy a Touch, and there are many people that don't want AT&T or need a smartphone...

BUT. it the $100 price different converts some Touch buyers to the iPhone, that's good for Apple since the iPhone is now going to become the biggest device for Apple.

But the iPod Touch is not a phone. It is not as feature laden as the phone. The price should be lowered. At least on the low end model... with the other ones falling in-between the higher and lower end models of the iPhone. It should happen or Apple will see their iPod Touch sales dry up.

I prefer to buy devices that only require a one time cost up front and not be tied to a $ubscription plan like a cell phone. I am one of the few who are defiantly "cell phone-less" and I love it.

Anyway, we'll see what happens in the coming weeks. Maybe Apple will slide the price of the iPod Touch down.

For those people who did not buy an iPhone when they first came out, and who want one now, it may be a good time to get one, though the plan from AT&T is still pricey.

[kanahina]

man, i want the new iPhone, but I still have a year left on my tmobile contract!

:(

[buzz1941]

Gad, it took me forever to get untangled from ATT. That's the biggest turnoff about the iPhone.

[LocalMotion]

Gad, it took me forever to get untangled from ATT. That's the biggest turnoff about the iPhone.

on a serious note, what was so bad about AT&T?

i've had them for the past 4 yrs. never a problem. great reception everywhere i go and no billing issues. on the contrary i hear horror stories about Sprint (don't know first hand) and the data speeds on tmobile are the slowest

[buzz1941]

We had ATT for long-distance service, which was too expensive, but when we tried to stop service, they simply refused and kept billing us, even though we were no longer connected. It took months and we nearly got the state office of consumer complaint involved.

[mel]

We had ATT for long-distance service, which was too expensive, but when we tried to stop service, they simply refused and kept billing us, even though we were no longer connected. It took months and we nearly got the state office of consumer complaint involved.

I had a similar problem with AT&T long distance landline service. It took me months to get rid of it after calling customer service several times and sending out snail mails. Very frustrating. I never want to do business with them again.

[buzz1941]

They actually yelled at us that we were not allowed to cancel their service!

[infinitypro]

on a serious note, what was so bad about AT&T?

i've had them for the past 4 yrs. never a problem. great reception everywhere i go and no billing issues. on the contrary i hear horror stories about Sprint (don't know first hand) and the data speeds on tmobile are the slowest

I've been with Sprint for more than five years, without any complaint, however I realize that my experience is uncommon. Sprint has reasonable rates, consistent reception, data speeds are fast enough for this impatient customer, and they offer a good selection of phones.

At $199 I was more than 75% sure that I was purchasing the new iPhone, but after reviewing the plans I've changed my mind.

[LocalMotion]

They actually yelled at us that we were not allowed to cancel their service!

that could actually be true.

Nowadays the local phone company puts a restriction on the line so the long distance can't be changed without you authorizing it through the local phone company. In hawaii that would most likely be Hawaiian Tel.

This was done to combat the problem of "slamming" that went rampant in the late 90's early 00's where any company could send a notice to the phone company to change your carrier, they would change it, even if you never authorized it...

[pzarquon]

iPhone 3G debuts on Friday at 8 a.m. With it comes the new App Store (for both original and 3G models as well as the iPod Touch), and MobileMe, the new name for .Mac with dock-free syncing and double the storage, as well as push-email for the iPhone.

I think the App Store and the new software for iPhone will keep the original iPhones valuable and useful, and the higher price for AT&T plans make the iPhone 3G a weak deal. I don't think I want an iPhone 3G as a result... but I'm wondering how I'll feel after I actually get to play with one. 3G speeds is three to five times faster than EDGE, and that's gotta be noticable!

[LocalMotion]

yeah i'm trying to decide if i want a white or black one. being the new case is plastic (will get better reception), i think the white would be better show it won't show fingerprints and scratches as much.

As much as i use the net with the iphone, i'm sure i'll want the greater speeds the 3G provides. Downloading pages in 1/3 the time will be great. I'm really looking forward to the MobileMe. as a .Mac user it will be great to finally have push services, OTA syncing for contacts, address, cal, etc... I use my calendar and address book a lot on my Mac and forget to sync my iphone most of the time, so i'm without the latest updates I made.

Still trying to decide if i'm going to be there on day one or wait a week or so...

[zztype]

Nah, I think pzarquon has it right. I don't want a 3g. The plan costs more and you don't get that much more. I am happy at 2g whenever I am away from 802.11.

Actually, I'm looking for a used g2 4 gig model or two for my wife and kid. We have had ATT for years. Simply pull SIM chip from old phone, stick in iPhone and you're in business.

No contract hassles. Add the $20 iPhone rider to their phones and everybody happy.

[MixedPlateBroker]

Cisco's worth a hell of a lot more than Apple, and Cisco is still trying to keep up with Microsoft. So if Cisco can eventually "take over" everything but the computer (hardware) part of Apple, that would be a good thing for them. They need to look for ways to break into the consumer market. Right now, most of their business is in the business sector.

Miulang
Eh? Didn't Cisco acquire Linksys (http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satellite?c=L_Content_C1&childpagename=US%2FLayout&cid=1115417027773&pagename=Linksys%2FCommon%2FVisitorWrapper) ~five years ago? I think they're doing just fine when it comes to the consumer market penetration, thank you.

The Mac Mini (http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/mac_mini/stats/mac_mini_g4_1.25.html) has always had at least 1 firewire port.

While the new iMacs look pretty cool what some Apple fans like me are missing is a midrange mini-tower (http://www.lowendmac.com/thomas/tt07/0713.html), similar to the long discontinued Power Mac G4 towers (http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g4/stats/powermac_g4_1.25_mdd.html) but of course with the latest processors. This would be for those who can't afford the really expensive MacPro but want the expandability and flexibility a tower has vs. that of an all in one iMac.
Ahh, you want an Open Computer (http://www.psystar.com/index.php?&page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage_images.tpl&product_id=1&category_id=13&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=72)! $399 ain't a shabby deal for a 2GHz dual-core box with 2GB/250GB to run Leopard on.;)

Gad, it took me forever to get untangled from ATT. That's the biggest turnoff about the iPhone.
I had the same experience back in the 90s. Oddly enough, my circular route through all the wirele