How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

[Nobunaga]

Matapule> Maybe Kerry was more aggressive and braver than your buddies in pursuing the VietCong.

Nobu> LOL! If you are aggressive in combat, you come back in a body bag.

Matapule> I'm ashamed that there are people who are willing to deny the facts by those who were there to further their own personal political agenda. It would not surprise me that you are a "birther" too.

Nobu> Then you should be ashamed of yourself. You deny the facts all the time. And no, I am not a birther. Obama's birth certificate and the clippings in the Honolulu Star Bulletin and Honolulu Advertiser dated at the time of his birth is more than good enough for me.

And I take your last statement as a surrender. Thank you.

bush again...in Aug 2001 he was given an intelligence report titled "Al Qaeda Determined To Strike Inside U.S.", and he then went for a month long vacation at his photo op ranch in Texas, the longest vacation in the history of the Presidency. One of the scenarios for terrorism discussed in the report was the danger of terrorists flying hijacked airliners into tall buildings in southern Manhattan. And a few days after bush returned to DC the attacks happened. Neglect? Negligence? Incompetence? Sloth? It sure wasn't dedication to duty, was it. Condoleza Rice tried to explain the title of the report as DeterminED meaning Past Tense, meaning Al Qaeda had been determined to strike, but wasn't any more. Pathetic. From the Secretary of State. What a miserable collection of fools. We also have testimony from bush's former treasury secretary, former head of Alcoa, that at the first cabinet meeting he attended, which would have been about 8 months before 9-11, big maps were displayed and Cheney was showing how Iraq's oil fields were going to be distributed among bush's oil company campaign contributors.

I agree. There were no good choices for president in the year 2000, and 2004. Regardless of who got elected, the people would have paid for it. It is my opinion that Bush was the better choice in both elections, but I was not happy with him as our president.

[Kalalau]

Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

Gore was fine. A very smart man. I seriously doubt if he would have had the slovenly work habits that let 9=11 happen, he would never have had any reason to attack Afghanistan, no need to attack Iraq, he would not have cut huge tax breaks for billionaires, so the surplus that elected President Bill Clinton left, plus all the job growth that he left, would have continued. Republicans on the sup ct in a 5/4 vote installed the little idiot. There was an interview with one of bush's profs from college, he said bush seldom did any work and as a result he often failed, and when he failed he always blamed others. Sound familiar? The professor is named Professor Tsurumi, you can google and read the interview. Its very interesting, I hope you read it. Kerry, an honest, brilliant man, a true American hero, he would have made a fine president, too, but of course billionaires had to slander and smear him. A vote for bush was a vote to destroy America. Congratulations.

[Nobunaga]

Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

Gore was fine. A very smart man. I seriously doubt if he would have had the slovenly work habits that let 9=11 happen, he would never have had any reason to attack Afghanistan, no need to attack Iraq, he would not have cut huge tax breaks for billionaires, so the surplus that elected President Bill Clinton left, plus all the job growth that he left, would have continued. Republicans on the sup ct in a 5/4 vote installed the little idiot. There was an interview with one of bush's profs from college, he said bush seldom did any work and as a result he often failed, and when he failed he always blamed others. Sound familiar? The professor is named Professor Tsurumi, you can google and read the interview. Its very interesting, I hope you read it. Kerry, an honest, brilliant man, a true American hero, he would have made a fine president, too, but of course billionaires had to slander and smear him. A vote for bush was a vote to destroy America. Congratulations.

Hi Kalalau,
Soon after the 2000 presidential election, Gore had serious mental health problems. I am not sure whether it was from the tough campaigning and loss, or if was his personal life, but the 9-11 attacks were planned quite a bit in advance, which means that the planning took place during the Clinton - Gore watch.

To succeed in the attack, a lot of planning and preparations had to be made, and it didn't start only in November after Bush was elected. They needed the vounteers who were willing to die, and they had to train at least four to fly a commecial jet. This took years to plan and execute. So, I don't think it mattered who our president was, the attack would have commensed anyway.

I voted for Bill Clinton in both of his elections, and Gore after him, because I truly felt at the time that Gore was the better choice. Now, playing Monday Morning QB, I am not very sure about that.

On Kerry in 2004 for president? Kerry honest?
There were serious questions in my mind on Kerry. First of all, his military records. While Kerry submitted his DD214, (seperation from the military papers) he did not release all of his military records. What seems to be very suspicious to me, is his enlistment in 1966, for six years, him being out protesting the Vietnam War in 1971, and his honorable discharge being dated in 1978, signed by President Jimmy Carter. My honorable discharge was dated on the day of my completion of active duty. If Kerry's honorable discharge came upon his completion of active duty, it should have been before 1971, when he was out protesting the Vietnam War, and at the very latest, in 1972, which was the year of his ETS (Estimated Time Served)

Because of that questionable find, I began to look at the Swiftboat organization who played a big part in Kerry's defeat, by Bush, who was already an unpopular president. Kerry spent a little less than 4 months in Vietnam, yet he collected three Purple Hearts, a Bronze Star, and a Silver Star. While it is possible to get all of those medals in a war within four months, I don't know of anyone else who did, or even came close to doing half of it.

If Kerry is an honest and patriotic man, he was awful lucky to get out of Nam alive, and his story, while unbelieveable, is extremely rare, to the point where no other like it that I know of exists. Perhaps he should have gotten the Medal of Honor instead...

I would guess that Kerry's medals were given to him just has Jessica Lynch got her Bronze Star, without firing a shot, and being captive by Iraq.

Upon entering the US Navy, Kerry took the oath of enlistment that I took very seriously.

"I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God. "

Being that Kerry enlisted for six years in 1966, and he was protesting the Vietnam War in 1971, simple math should tellyou that he was still under the oath that he took upon enlistment. Kerry is honest????? He renegged on his oath upon enlistment.
Nobu

[bjd392]

Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

re: Post #209

McCain was in the Navy since 1958 and followed family footsteps toward admiralty. As a pilot, he's going to go where the flight commander directs him to. To claim he was gullible for fighting in Vietnam in 1967 when most of the US involvment was just starting is a little pre-mature.

[Kalalau]

Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

That Gore had mental health issues after the election is news to me. A source, please. And even if so, so what? There is no way he would have let 9-11 happen, or Afghanistan, or Iraq, or bankrupted the country with tax breaks for billionaires financed on borrowing from future generations. The country, well the supreme ct actually, made its choice in 2000 and the country is stuck with the consequences, which are national bankruptcy and the Communist Chinese politburo with inside influence on our gvt. soverignity economic and political is gone thanks to idiot boy and the people who voted for him. Maybe China will be merciful to us, maybe the value of everything you own will disappear, our economic future is not up to us any more, its up to our creditors. For hundreds, maybe thousands of years, historians will look back on bush as the idiot who brought America down, but the credit is shared by the people who voted for him.

I went to a talk on global climate change by a leading scientist in the field, he said that Gore was rational, always tried to be up to date on the latest data, and was correct in his film An Inconvenient Truth. Even now some people celebrate the melting of the arctic ice cap because for the first time in history shipping can use the northern arctic route. Smear the messenger if he says something inconvenient. Like with Kerry. Ignore the message, smear the messenger. So...should we still be in Vietnam? Why or why not? Should we go back? Why or why not? Who was right about the war, the people who wanted it to continue, or the people who recognized it as a mistake that needed to be ended? Smear the messenger, thats a great way to deal with problems. Oh doctor, you are just an amo for telling me I need an operation.

[bjd392]

Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

Back to the death penalty...

In today's news, the trial begins for that chump Army Major Nidal Hasan. Currently faces charges of first degree murder of 13 people (including a pregnant woman) and 32 counts of attempted murder.

Victims are soldiers and civilians of the United States Army.

Just because this piece of garbage is paralyzed from return fire by police doesn't mean he is any less the garbage that murdered (correct term here) military members and civilians. I would think if he's paralyzed, he can't claim to feel the needle pricks of his lethal injections.

Opinion: This guy should fry.

[Nobunaga]

Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

re: Post #209

McCain was in the Navy since 1958 and followed family footsteps toward admiralty. As a pilot, he's going to go where the flight commander directs him to. To claim he was gullible for fighting in Vietnam in 1967 when most of the US involvment was just starting is a little pre-mature.

McCain had some "pull". He lost a few planes, including the one he was shot down in over Vietnam. Most pilots in our military would be dismissed from piloting an aircraft after losing just one.

Still, McCain fought in Vietnam, honoring the oath he took upon enlistment. Nothing gullible about that. I believe that McCain earned all of his medals that he got from the military, while some were given to others who were undeserving of them.

[Nobunaga]

Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

That Gore had mental health issues after the election is news to me. A source, please. And even if so, so what? There is no way he would have let 9-11 happen, or Afghanistan, or Iraq, or bankrupted the country with tax breaks for billionaires financed on borrowing from future generations. The country, well the supreme ct actually, made its choice in 2000 and the country is stuck with the consequences, which are national bankruptcy and the Communist Chinese politburo with inside influence on our gvt. soverignity economic and political is gone thanks to idiot boy and the people who voted for him. Maybe China will be merciful to us, maybe the value of everything you own will disappear, our economic future is not up to us any more, its up to our creditors. For hundreds, maybe thousands of years, historians will look back on bush as the idiot who brought America down, but the credit is shared by the people who voted for him.

I went to a talk on global climate change by a leading scientist in the field, he said that Gore was rational, always tried to be up to date on the latest data, and was correct in his film An Inconvenient Truth. Even now some people celebrate the melting of the arctic ice cap because for the first time in history shipping can use the northern arctic route. Smear the messenger if he says something inconvenient. Like with Kerry. Ignore the message, smear the messenger. So...should we still be in Vietnam? Why or why not? Should we go back? Why or why not? Who was right about the war, the people who wanted it to continue, or the people who recognized it as a mistake that needed to be ended? Smear the messenger, thats a great way to deal with problems. Oh doctor, you are just an amo for telling me I need an operation.

OK, first of all, I agree with Al Gore on climate change, While the argument about climate change being human induced goes on, we humans are contributing to global warming, and if nothing is done, we are heading to a catastrophe. But that is another issue, which should be discussed in another thread.

Should we still be in Vietnam? No. That is history, and we should have won that war, which we lost.

Actually, playing Monday Morning QB, the USA should have pulled out of Vietnam after the assassination of their president Diem. John F. Kennedy committed to President Diem, US involvement to South Vietnam in an "advisory role". Kennedy and Diem were assassinated within the same month, which should have ended our commitment to South Vietnam. Had we pulled out of South Vietnam after the Diem assassination, it would not have been a war, so it would not have been a win or loss, and the total American casualties then was about 400 at the end of 1964.

As far as what Gore would have done, we simply don't know. He lost the election, and he never had the chance to prove how good or bad he would have been. We can only speculate, and we do know that Bush did a terrible job, but I still believe he did a better job on the post 9-11 attack than Gore would have, because Bush appears to be more of a hawk type of person than Gore. I was not happy with Bush's response to the 9-11 attack either, as I feel he didn't do enough.

On Al Gore's mental condition, I did a Google on it and found nothing, I could have been mistaken, but if I wasn't, then it was washed under after the 10 years of his loss.

Again, I am not a Democrat or Republican, and I am not a conservative or liberal. My trend is to be slightly on the conservative side, but I like to think I make my own stands, and my own opinions with what is given,

How capital punishment veered to political debate is amazing. Perhaps they are connected?
Nobu

[Leo Lakio]

Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

On Al Gore's mental condition, I did a Google on it and found nothing, I could have been mistaken...

Once again, you put something out there as if it were reality, yet you cannot support it. Much in your posting throughout this thread is unsubstantiated, though you expect others to accept it as fact, when it is merely your own anecdotal recollection.

[Nobunaga]

Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

Once again, you put something out there as if it were reality, yet you cannot support it. Much in your posting throughout this thread is unsubstantiated, though you expect others to accept it as fact, when it is merely your own anecdotal recollection.

Hi Leo,
I didn't give up on that yet, I am still looking for it. Soon after the presidential election, and Gore's defeat, he went into seclusion, and reappeared with a beard. I think it was then, that it came out in the news that I saw the report. Most do not recall Gore with a beard after the election, because again, he was not seen for a while about a month after.

Of course, I could be mistaken, but I am still looking.
Thanks for the encouragement.
Nobu

[D'Alani]

Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

Wow I usually just read and enjoy the discussions but I need to ask, of what significance is a beard to someone's mental capacity?...or am I reading too much into that statement?

[Kalalau]

Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

I do think its reasonable to believe 9-11 would not have happened if the republicans on the supreme ct. had not installed bush as President, if the votes in Florida had been counted as the law requires, and Gore won. Its that intelligence report "Al Qaeda Determined To Strike Inside US"--did you know that President Clinton warned bush as he (Clinton) left office that Al Qaeda would be his (bush's) biggest problem as president? bush disagreed, saying it would be Iraq. Point is, I seriously doubt if Al Gore would have gone on vacation for a month after getting such a report, I think he would have actually read it, and having read it, I think he would have acted on it. bush didn't care. Obviously. Or he would have read the report, or at least had staff read it. Maybe it was as I speculated earlier, that bush was aware Afghanistan sits on trillions of dollars worth of minerals and wanted an excuse to attack and occupy and steal, so he let the 9-11 attacks proceed. Hard to believe anybody could be that cynical but look at Iraq, those million collateral damage Iraqi deaths.

So much obscene about the bush years. The spectacle of dishonorable scum like bush and Rove and Cheney smearing honorable people like Al Gore or John Kerry comes close to being as outrageous as having wounded soldiers lie in their own excrement in what was once one of the best hospitals in the world, while chanting Support The Troops. Evil. People who do these things are evil. There is no excuse, such conduct is never right, its like firing into a school yard at little children, its wrong. Period.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

Most do not recall Gore with a beard after the election, because again, he was not seen for a while about a month after.

"Most," eh? Can we see the survey results for that one, if you please?

The First Church of Al Gore's Beard

[Kalalau]

Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

I remember VP Gore grew the beard, he put on a lot of weight. He was stressed. Why not? I thought he looked good with the beard. He has taken off most of that extra poundage.

I had the deepest respect for and faith in the Supreme Court before their bush v. Gore decision. I thought of the Court as fair, honest, honorable, decent people, above politics. The decision was so brazenly political, so obviously corrupt, so evil, it destroyed my faith and respect for the American judicial system. Citizens United only confirms my judgment, the recent case allowing corporations to buy elections with unlimited untraceable campaign contributions. The ct is the whore of the ruling privileged elite, it doesn't even pretend to be anything else. When historians trace the causes of the collapse of the US the dishonorable, dishonest, corrupt sup. ct. will get the blame for installing the worst, most incompetent, corrupt regime in this country's history, and one of the most incompetent and corrupt regimes in the history of the world.

Just a brief survey. If you had an important job and someone put a report on your desk titled "Al Qaeda Determined To Strike Inside US", what would be your reaction? Would you think it important enough to sit down and actually read it? Or would you go on vacation for a month?

[Leo Lakio]

Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

Just a brief survey. If you had an important job and someone put a report on your desk titled "Al Qaeda Determined To Strike Inside US", what would be your reaction? Would you think it important enough to sit down and actually read it? Or would you go on vacation for a month?

I am one of those people who can only read one book at a time, having to finish it before I start another. GWB had "My Pet Goat" on his list before that dull report.