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How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

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  • Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

    How about making our prisions a place for real rehibilitation. Currently they just hold people and make no effort to reform or re-educate anyone. I'm for capital punishment in cases where it's clearly in the best interest of society. But the rest of those in jail for other crimes get no training or structure at all. What's the real problem? Early school drop outs due to the lack of structure in our schools. Parents that are uneducated and don't know how to raise a child. We have become so politically correct that kids don't even get spanked anymore. They are not held responsible for their actions in early childhood and that carries over when they become adults. I can suggest how to fix the problem but their isn't enough space here to do so.

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    • Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

      Originally posted by bjd392 View Post
      The death penalty has been around in America since its inception (minus a few lapses here and there). With the current system in place, I find it extremely unlikely (and laughable that it's even brought up) that a state executioner is going to go off and slaughter millions of people in the same manner.

      Punishment of an individual after a criminal conviction is nowhere near the same as a mass genocide. Good gracious.
      I agree 100%. Very good post! And, as I posted, the government does not have the power to kill criminals. The courts has that power. The government, by law, has the power to stop executions, but does not have the power to enforce them.

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      • Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

        Originally posted by treb View Post
        How about making our prisions a place for real rehibilitation. Currently they just hold people and make no effort to reform or re-educate anyone. I'm for capital punishment in cases where it's clearly in the best interest of society. But the rest of those in jail for other crimes get no training or structure at all. What's the real problem? Early school drop outs due to the lack of structure in our schools. Parents that are uneducated and don't know how to raise a child. We have become so politically correct that kids don't even get spanked anymore. They are not held responsible for their actions in early childhood and that carries over when they become adults. I can suggest how to fix the problem but their isn't enough space here to do so.
        Hi Treb,
        The prison systems does have rehab training for those who will be getting out, but if a prisoner is a "lifer" there is no sense in spending any money on his rehab.

        Here in Hawaii, we have just a very few cases that should have been death penalty eligible. In the past 30 or so years, I would say perhaps about a half dozen. Since that half dozen all got a form of life sentences (which has no definitive meaning here) it would have been a lot cheaper to have them plea bargain out to get the same sentence without the cost of a trial.
        Nobu

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        • Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

          2 more incidents of the State going or being crazy and executing mass injustice against minorities come to mind in addition to the Japanese internment. During the Depression there was a mass deportation of people of Mexican ancestry, many of whom had lived in the US and been US citizens for generations, some couldn't even speak Spanish and there they were, loaded onto trains and deported to Mexico.

          Several years ago the LA Times had a series on corruption in the LAPD. A cop had been caught selling drugs out of an evidence locker, for immunity from prosecution, he talked about police corruption and the story got bigger and bigger until it related tortures and false imprisonment carried out since the 19th century against Blacks and Hispanics. It is ridiculous to think some innocent people weren't murdered under color of law. The tortures used by the LAPD and prison authorities were gruesome, nearly drowning victims in sewage for example. Our tyrant in Chile, Pinochet, had that done to some of his victims. Kind of like water boarding except the water wasn't something you'd even put on your garden.

          The point is, power does corrupt. It really does. How can you possibly trust a justice system with a record as brutal and unfair as ours to be either right or fair? Its funny how conservatives always scream Get The Gvt. Off Our Backs but that only refers to laws to keep companies from poisoning our water, food, and air, or to keep Wall St. from looting everything in sight. When it comes to forcing rape victims to carry the rapists' fetuses to term, or executing people, or even dictating what consenting adults do in their own bedrooms, conservatives are all for massive intrusive Big Gvt. power.

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          • Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

            Kalalau> 2 more incidents of the State going or being crazy and executing mass injustice against minorities come to mind in addition to the Japanese internment. During the Depression there was a mass deportation of people of Mexican ancestry, many of whom had lived in the US and been US citizens for generations, some couldn't even speak Spanish and there they were, loaded onto trains and deported to Mexico

            Hi Kalalau,
            I do recall the internment of the Japanese during World War II, and I learned that there was an internment camp here in Hawaii at Sand Island. I learned this just a few years ago. However, I hav not heard of any mass deportation of US citizens. I hope you have some type of source for that?

            On the possible execution of an innocent, or innocents, it is highly possible. As you pointed out, there was a lot of racial discrimination in this country, and it was about as bad as it could get even as recent as 50 years ago.

            Still, I stand by my claim that in the past 100 years, there is not one proven wrongful execution. No one has ever been convicted, sentenced to death, and executed by any state in this country, and posthumously proven inncent, and so far, all of the suspected cases that were researched was proven to be rightful, or could not be proven either way.

            Also Still, I think what you are pointing at, is the possible wrongful conviction, which in many cases, have been proven. As you know, when you have a wrongful conviction that is proven years after the error, the wrongfully convicted is wrongfully punished. Some have spent decades in prison. Just as we cannot give a person's life back to him after we execute him, we cannot take back the years of wrongful punishment. So, is your proposal that we should not punish anyone for crimes?
            Nobu

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            • Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

              Google Mass deportation of Mexicans during the Depression, there are too many articles to count. If it could happen once, it could happen again. If it could happen to people of Mexican ancestry, it can happen to anybody. Jews? Islam? Asians have had a history of unpopularity, nothing like the lynching of Blacks but with China now controlling our economy anything is possible. Even now you have LOTS of people expressing some pretty cruel, irrational opinions against Latinos. Except when they want somebody to build a retaining wall or mow the yard or take out some trees, etc.

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              • Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

                This shows my ignorance on the subject. I didn't know such an act was possible even 100 years ago.

                What I did know, is the Organic Act made anyone residing in the Territory prior to 1899 of Hawaii automatically a US citizen. My grandfather came here before 1899, and was automatically a US citizen, while my grandmother came from Korea in the early 1900s and had to apply for her citizenship.

                The internment of the Japanese during World War II was basically an illegal act even then. I don't think this country can do that today though.

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                • Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

                  Its a funny thing about history. The bad stuff so often gets ignored or buried or deliberately erased. I was as stunned as anybody to learn of the mass deportations of Mexicans. That included some families of Mexican ancestry going back to when Mexico owned the whole southwest part of the country. Look even now at how people try to alter history--the people who deny or try to minimize The Holocaust. Plus people on different sides get totally different views of the same event. For example the US gives Ronald Reagan a huge amount of credit for bringing down Communism, yet the Russian people believe it was they who accomplished it and see Reagan as just a footnote.

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                  • Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

                    On the Holocaust, I would encourage anyone who is in Washington DC to visit the Holocaust Museum. While it is depressing to see the pictures and read about the atrocities, it should never be forgotten. There should be an equivalent museum for slavery in the USA.

                    One thing that was mentioned to me about the Japanese, is the possibility that the Imperial Army had some cannibals. This was very difficult for me to believe, because the Japanese had mostly a vegetarian diet, but after doing some research, I found that it is very possible, especially in the Pacific islands.

                    I have a Vietnamese friend, who escaped by boat in the 1980's, She claimed that they killed and ate one of the members of the boat in desperation to survive. Not only that, but they were out of fuel, so they had to eat the human flesh raw, and they were given a ration of a jigger of water a day.

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                    • Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

                      Originally posted by admin View Post
                      Let's focus each post on a given idea's relevance to capital punishment and the death penalty, which is where this previously coherent thread started. If you want to stray into discussions of Nazis, 9-11, and Al Gore's beard, there are well-trodden threads for each. (Okay, maybe not the beard.) Thanks.
                      Originally posted by Nobunaga View Post
                      Good idea.
                      Thanks... I think we all need to be reminded to try to stay on topic, but a discussion like this can, and will tend to drift a little. This time, it is a lot.
                      We're going way off-topic again. Let's take admin's advice before he decides we can't, and shuts down the thread. Death penalty & capital punishment - not the Holocaust, Mexican deportations, cannibalism, internment of Japanese-Americans, mental health, Dr. Hare, etc.

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                      • Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

                        Originally posted by Leo Lakio View Post
                        We're going way off-topic again. Let's take admin's advice before he decides we can't, and shuts down the thread. Death penalty & capital punishment - not the Holocaust, Mexican deportations, cannibalism, internment of Japanese-Americans, mental health, Dr. Hare, etc.
                        Wow! Something in this thread we all can finally agree on!

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                        • Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

                          Originally posted by Leo Lakio View Post
                          (...) For all we know, they are listed because somebody on a message board somewhere said "I seem to remember that this person had serious mental health problems, maybe even Asperger's Syndrome" - and, BOOM! It gets circulated wider and wider and eventually accepted as "fact."
                          And that happens in all areas, not just mental health issues. It's amazing how people -- and which people -- play that kind of horrible cyber-game, and amazing how they never cough up proof when asked to back up accusations.
                          And of course that's your point.
                          And keeping this on topic, maybe people who play those cyber games you describe should be subject to capital punishment.
                          .
                          .

                          That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

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                          • Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

                            Originally posted by LikaNui View Post
                            And that happens in all areas, not just mental health issues. It's amazing how people -- and which people -- play that kind of horrible cyber-game, and amazing how they never cough up proof when asked to back up accusations.
                            And of course that's your point.
                            And keeping this on topic, maybe people who play those cyber games you describe should be subject to capital punishment.
                            Actually Lika, I did post another site which gave the opinions of many known people who agree, that Gore, as a presidential candidate had "serious mental health problems". And actually anyone with even suspected mental health problems running for the office of President of the United States, should be considered to have "serious mental health problems."

                            So, it isn't a cyber game, I backed my statement with a source.
                            You now stand corrected.
                            Thank you,
                            Nobu

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                            • Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

                              I don't know how the subject drifted off course, but anyway, we did have capital punishment here in Hawaii up to the 1957. The homicide rate was very low then, and it is low now, but it is not as low as what the homicide rate was before 1957, when we abolished capital punishment in this state, which was then the "Territory of Hawaii".

                              The method of execution when we had capital punishment was death by hanging.
                              Nobu

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                              • Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

                                The point of bringing up past incidents of mass discrimination is that if the people and if the justice system can be goofy enough to do something like mass deportations, or the Japanese internment, and others, how can you trust it with the power of death? Its much safer to keep that power out of Big Government's hands rather than just sit around and wait for some nut case to come to power and start something horrible. History...mass murder was carried out against the Native Americans, those blankets infected with smallpox passed out among the Indians, not good. If it happened once, it could happen again. You need to know history to know what we are capable of. We need to move way past mass murder not just because its right but for our own individual safety, and while you can never be completely 100 % sure something like the Holocaust can be prevented from happening here, the longer you keep the power of death out of Big Government's hands the better your chances.

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