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Aloha Air files bankruptcy, again

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  • #91
    Re: Aloha Air files bankruptcy, again

    Go Airlines is okay, if you don't mind the pilots falling asleep at wheel. You gotta have a strong stomach because sometimes their planes fly upside down.

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    • #92
      Re: Aloha Air files bankruptcy, again

      Originally posted by craigwatanabe View Post
      So even if go! hadn't entered the local airline market, they would still have folded because of the rising fuel costs alone.
      Only if it couldn't pass on the costs in the ticket prices. And why couldn't they do that? Hawaiian is also affected by rising fuel costs. They've both raised ticket prices in the past due to rising fuel costs. Hawaiian has no interest in pushing Aloha out of business. It creates too much scrutiny as a monopoly.

      But Go! had no incentive to allow ticket prices to rise. It played right into their plan.

      Go!'s predatory pricing was a deliberate, malicious act. Without them, Aloha would have been been OK. The rising fuel price just helped out Mesa's plans.

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      • #93
        Re: Aloha Air files bankruptcy, again

        hi this is sansei and i did learn on the internet when you put in yahoo,mesa bankrupted airline's and they did,one in the mainland and this airline's was called Flyir and they was a reputable airline's until mesa which repersent's go air that it bankrupted this good airline company and they went out of business and now they go air thought they could do it to Aloha and now look at aloha and this is all true and when i read this,i contacted Khon to let them know only i know they didnt report it on air so i thought to share this with everyone.

        well thank's for your time

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        • #94
          Re: Aloha Air files bankruptcy, again

          Originally posted by Kimo View Post
          Crossposting - with TV memories

          I wonder what Aloha Airlines pilot Tasha Kobashigawa will be doing now?
          i had no idea that she had become a stewardess! a big surprise while watching the news tonight...
          525,600 minutes, 525,000 moments so dear. 525,600 minutes - how do you measure, measure a year?

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          • #95
            Re: Aloha Air files bankruptcy, again

            Tasha was first officer (pilot) on the last Aloha flight - not a "stewardess" - (also known these days as flight attendants)
            Last edited by Kimo; April 2, 2008, 06:20 AM. Reason: (misspelling)

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            • #96
              Re: Aloha Air files bankruptcy, again

              Originally posted by GeckoGeek View Post
              Go!'s predatory pricing was a deliberate, malicious act. Without them, Aloha would have been been OK. The rising fuel price just helped out Mesa's plans.
              Aloha went bankrupted even before go! came along and let's not forget, the state helped out Aloha during the 9/11 crisis. So, the root problem is really their management. Just didn't know when to make the right moves.

              On another thought, can anyone still buy the Aloha pax division? What if Mesa bought them? Be cheaper to buy them and drop the lawsuit against themselves than to pay the fine if convicted right?

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              • #97
                Re: Aloha Air files bankruptcy, again

                Originally posted by joshuatree View Post
                On another thought, can anyone still buy the Aloha pax division? What if Mesa bought them? Be cheaper to buy them and drop the lawsuit against themselves than to pay the fine if convicted right?

                Some firm probably could, but that would mean acquiring the old 737-200s as well as the newer 700s. Go/Mesa does not use the larger Boeing jets, and they would have to hire many of the Aloha pilots to make a go with Aloha's planes. Would be a bad move on Go's part to do that.

                On another note, Hawaiian Airlines is having a hard time finding Boeing 717 jets to expand their interisland fleet since only 156 of the planes were made. From what I read, every airline that owns these are happy with the planes and are not ready to give them up. Hawaiian may and will have to look into changing aircraft for the interisland market with something that is still in production or at least more plentiful in the used market. Boeing 737-700s? 600s? Another jet? Turboprops, Joshuatree?

                Mesa/Go will be at an advantage here on filling their fleet up with CRJs. Apparently they have many of these planes in service and they could easily move more into the market soon. Fact is they probably foresaw this bankrupcty as the 2 additional CRJ-200s they now have in service were brought into the market a few weeks before Aloha shut down.

                Island Air was at the capitol yesterday testifying in support of a bill that would guarantee state backed loans. I am sure they have expansion on their minds too.
                I'm still here. Are you?

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                • #98
                  Re: Aloha Air files bankruptcy, again

                  Originally posted by mel View Post
                  Some firm probably could, but that would mean acquiring the old 737-200s as well as the newer 700s. Go/Mesa does not use the larger Boeing jets, and they would have to hire many of the Aloha pilots to make a go with Aloha's planes. Would be a bad move on Go's part to do that.

                  On another note, Hawaiian Airlines is having a hard time finding Boeing 717 jets to expand their interisland fleet since only 156 of the planes were made. From what I read, every airline that owns these are happy with the planes and are not ready to give them up. Hawaiian may and will have to look into changing aircraft for the interisland market with something that is still in production or at least more plentiful in the used market. Boeing 737-700s? 600s? Another jet? Turboprops, Joshuatree?

                  Mesa/Go will be at an advantage here on filling their fleet up with CRJs. Apparently they have many of these planes in service and they could easily move more into the market soon. Fact is they probably foresaw this bankrupcty as the 2 additional CRJ-200s they now have in service were brought into the market a few weeks before Aloha shut down.

                  Island Air was at the capitol yesterday testifying in support of a bill that would guarantee state backed loans. I am sure they have expansion on their minds too.
                  Well, even if Mesa bought up the 737-200s and 737-700s, they can resell them out. Besides, I thought most if not all were leased? If they are, you can sublease them out.

                  Unless Hawaiian is ready to make a shift in the type of equipment used, I don't see them going for anything else to convolute the one type of craft for interisland. I don't think you can find much used turboprops out there too. They are enjoying the highest number of orders in recent years, no doubt because of the cost of oil. However, you know me, I'm all for Hawaiian in choosing a next gen turboprop for their next interisland craft. It will give them more margin for any more future fuel increases. Also, turboprop pilots make less. I'm not trying to shortchange the current pilots but for any future pilot hires, that's helping the bottom line.

                  All of the later 737 models are not suited for the quick and frequent takeoffs. You need to find a plane built for hot and high conditions. The ATR turboprop is definitely built for that.
                  Last edited by joshuatree; April 2, 2008, 07:18 AM. Reason: grammatical error

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                  • #99
                    Re: Aloha Air files bankruptcy, again

                    Yep, I think maybe all of Aloha's planes were leased. So in the end the leasing companies can and will take them back if the passenger division is not sold. I see it as very unlikely that Mesa/Go would buy the passenger service now.

                    As for Hawaiian operating turboprops, it is dooable if Hawaiian has the will to change to that. Years ago they operated a dual jet and turboprop fleet (DC-9s and Dash 7s) but went to only jets to "streamline" their operations and costs (at the time) on just using 1 common aircraft on interisland routes. Going to turboprop now would probably increase some of their costs if they decide to go mixed fleet, though in the long run the fuel and labor savings would manifest themselves.

                    My thing is that aren't most turboprop pilots younger with less flying hours than jet pilots since they are lower paid? Also I would think an airline using all turboprops would have a more frequent turnover of pilots and possibly other support personnel as they may be working their way up the career ladder to go to jets.
                    I'm still here. Are you?

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                    • Re: Aloha Air files bankruptcy, again

                      I agree in general, turboprop pilots are younger and working their way up. But right now, Hawaiian has their pickings since there are a bunch of ex-Aloha pilots probably happy for another pilot job that does not require them to leave the state. And with that said, because our market is isolated, you will probably find a core of turboprop pilots happy to stay put because they can live in Hawaii, fly all they want, but never have to be away from home. Like you said, will Hawaiian have that willpower? Also, it seems turboprop makers are seriously considering building larger props at the 100 pax seating size. This is the right sized plane for interisland so another compelling reason to switch to props. Shaving off 5 min on an interisland flight isn't worth it at $100+ a barrel of oil.

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                      • Re: Aloha Air files bankruptcy, again

                        While I can see the logic of going with turboprops, it will still be a hard sell to the public to encourage them to try and more importantly, be loyal to the firm flying turboprops while the competition is still flying jets. Hawaii people as you may well know, are spoiled with jets. The airlines made a big deal out of that when jet service was introduced in the late 1960s. Smoother, faster, better. Of course fuel in those days were nowhere near the cost of $100+ per barrell!
                        I'm still here. Are you?

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                        • Re: Aloha Air files bankruptcy, again

                          Originally posted by joshuatree View Post
                          Aloha went bankrupted even before go! came along and let's not forget, the state helped out Aloha during the 9/11 crisis. So, the root problem is really their management. Just didn't know when to make the right moves.
                          Hawaiian went bankrupt too. And I believe they were also helped out. Both airlines used bankruptcy to reorganize and improve their position.

                          When a predator kills it's prey in the wild, who is the blame for the death? The predator? Or the prey for being weak enough to get caught? Aloha's management got them selected, but without a predator, they would have survived.

                          While the courts have yet to rule, I feel confident that it will be found that Aloha failed not to to fair competition, but illegal predatory competition.

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                          • Re: Aloha Air files bankruptcy, again

                            Originally posted by mel View Post
                            While I can see the logic of going with turboprops, it will still be a hard sell to the public to encourage them to try and more importantly, be loyal to the firm flying turboprops while the competition is still flying jets. Hawaii people as you may well know, are spoiled with jets. The airlines made a big deal out of that when jet service was introduced in the late 1960s. Smoother, faster, better. Of course fuel in those days were nowhere near the cost of $100+ per barrell!
                            Looks like some marketing blitz needs to be made.

                            "We can offer cheaper fares, better views at lower altitudes, more comfortable because of lower altitudes, we are a green company that is reducing our carbon footprint....etc etc"?

                            Just playing armchair CEO, I would simply shortlease a model of a prop I am interested in, I'm sure the manufacturer can locate one if you tell them you are evaluating their product for a fleet purchase. Rotate that prop into the interisland service at different times of day, different routes, to guage what the customer reaction would be.

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                            • Re: Aloha Air files bankruptcy, again

                              Hawaiian Airlines just posted openings for Flight Officers and Flight Attendants.

                              Hopefully some of the Aloha employees can start over.
                              Tessie, "Nuf Ced" McGreevey shouted
                              We're not here to mess around
                              Boston, you know we love you madly
                              Hear the crowd roar to your sound
                              Don't blame us if we ever doubt you
                              You know we couldn't live without you
                              Tessie, you are the only only only

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                              • Re: Aloha Air files bankruptcy, again

                                Originally posted by Kimo View Post
                                Tasha was first officer (pilot) on the last Aloha flight - not a "stewardess" - (also known these days as flight attendants)
                                opps; yup, forgot that she's a pilot!
                                525,600 minutes, 525,000 moments so dear. 525,600 minutes - how do you measure, measure a year?

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