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  #1  
Old December 18th, 2012, 08:32 PM
Ron Whitfield Ron Whitfield is offline
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Default Homeless solutions

After decades of manini progress towards truly helping those out on the streets, or in the hills, or on somebody's couch, it's time to bypass the political and hidden BS and get'r done no matter who doesn't like the bottom line. You can't say homeless without saying home, and free sensible housing starts addressing many of the problems for those afflicted, those who want to help, and those who are merely sick of seeing a bum distorting their picture of paradise.
Emphasizing warehouse style shelters like our own IHS and Next Step, is not benefitting the needy to the correct degree, it's more often part of (shall we say...) a scam by organizations who profit from it, and maybe worse, these places are disgusting. Most use them because they fear the dangers and bad weather, not willing to risk sleeping out in the open and being vulnerable like many others do.
The 'home' in question is nothing that anybody would accept unless the person considering it was without shelter, even with the accomodations made available to allow a person to utilize towards bettering their life.
The State needs to allocate land and the personel to oversee all phases and needs, build maybe 1000 one person 10'x10' living cubical w/bathroom extension shelters that are virtually abuse proof and include electricity and wireless connections. Hard core rules would need to be strictly adhered to, incoragibles and mentals do not fit this scheme, it's for those who can maintain themselves within ristrictions and parameters. There are thousands who will use the availability, many may live out their lives on the dole, but many will also take advantage of it for the right reasons.
Yes, it costs $$$, but it is about dignity and respect due every individual, and providing avenues for those down to better their situations, this only helps a community and thus our Nation become stronger.
This will not solve the multifacted homeless problem, but it will give a viable opportunity to those who otherwise will never use typical services/shelters or want to upgrade from them and get the majority out of the public eye and off property unsuitable for habitation. The public eye angle is one the community should be able to all get behind, most of the homeless hate is because they have to see and smell their daily existance. There are many other bennies to starting such a project, some we may not realize until a year or more into being. The mass aversion to giving someone something valuable for nothing rubs many the wrong way, too bad, lucky them that havn't yet incurred the need. They'll change these worthless and damaging attitudes should they find themselves in such a pickle, suddenly glad a project like I envision exists. The State started something similar in Haleiwa long ago, put in plumbing and wiring, then abandoned it due to public outcry! Now those same crybabies are still crying about the homeless they helped create. If it becomes successful there will be many who now have rented homes/rooms that will leave for the free pastures, and that's OK too, it opens up options for those who want to replace them in our resonable housing shortage island. The goal is to improve the pathetic situtation, and no idea will be 100% perfect, but things need to start changing for the better, our high and low mukas ain't doing it.

I'm putting together a plan to submit to the powers in charge so they know there's better alternatives to their ways, and if they turn away from it then the homeless numbers need to unite and use civil dis/recourse to pressure the issues. Any input towards furthering this plan's outline is welcome.
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Old December 18th, 2012, 09:45 PM
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Default Re: Homeless solutions

I don't see a way of dealing with the problem of drawing more and more people here, to enjoy this relatively more decent life you propose to give them. I am not totally unacquainted with the problem, since back when I was in high school, my father was county welfare director of Allen County, in Ohio. Our county wasn't rich, but it was prosperous compared to impoverished areas in southern Ohio, West Virginia, Kentucky. So it was a magnet for many seeking a better life, and the welfare system would have been swamped unless some countermeasures were taken. You can't deny welfare payments to non-natives, but you can pay them to go away and seek welfare elsewhere, so that's what was done. Free bus tickets to head back home.
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Old December 19th, 2012, 12:02 PM
Ron Whitfield Ron Whitfield is offline
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Default Re: Homeless solutions

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Originally Posted by GregLee View Post
I don't see a way of dealing with the problem of drawing more and more people here, to enjoy this relatively more decent life you propose to give them.
I'm sorry, Greg, I'm not understanding your statement. I'm not proposing "drawing more people here", we don't need more, and restrictions can be imposed to sway freeloaders from coming here for a cozy ride.
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Old December 19th, 2012, 01:25 PM
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Default Re: Homeless solutions

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Originally Posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
... restrictions can be imposed to sway freeloaders from coming here for a cozy ride.
Can they? This is not obvious. For one thing, if you use money from federal programs, you may find that residency requirements are not allowed.
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Old December 19th, 2012, 03:18 PM
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Default Re: Homeless solutions

What you both don't understand is that a majority of homeless people have mental health issues. I have worked with the homeless both directly and indirectly for the last 45 years. It is not their choice to be homeless, it is their fate. At one time, prior to the compassion-less Reagan administration, we took care of our citizens who did not have the skills to cope with life. Thanks to Ronnie, you received a Federal tax cut by throwing mentally ill people out on the street (homeless) so you could buy a new car.

We can care for our mentally ill again but it is going to cost money, - lots of money. Do we have the will as a nation to care for those who are incapable of surviving on their own? Unfortunately we have evolved into a nation that is self-centered, self-absorbed, and self-gratified. Stop worrying about whether someone is going to come to Hawai'i just to get free services. Start worrying about those who really need help even if someone might abuse that system along the way. Take care of those who are less fortunate than you and karma will take care of you. Where is your Christianity?

I favor cutting the US military budget by 50% and using that money for mental health services and providing for the needy.
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  #6  
Old December 19th, 2012, 05:11 PM
Ron Whitfield Ron Whitfield is offline
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Default Re: Homeless solutions

Quote:
Originally Posted by GregLee View Post
if you use money from federal programs, you may find that residency requirements are not allowed.
We're swimming in money, Fed funds aren't needed.

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Originally Posted by matapule View Post
a majority of homeless people have mental health issues.
I'd say it's 50/50, that leaves x thousands mentally sufficient for inclusion in this project. The State needs to step up to the task of handling the infirm, this plan is for those who can maintain.
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  #7  
Old December 19th, 2012, 08:02 PM
Ron Whitfield Ron Whitfield is offline
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Default Re: Homeless solutions

In researching I found this item which I'd missed as quite interesting http://www.civilbeat.com/articles/20...t-allegations/
Did anybody hear about this from our TV or radio or newspaper media?
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Old December 20th, 2012, 01:35 PM
Ron Whitfield Ron Whitfield is offline
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Default Re: Homeless solutions

What a wealth of input HT is... NOT. Suprisingly, over 1,250 views, not suprisingly... essentially nada for worthy input on a serious issue. American Idol, anyone?
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  #9  
Old December 20th, 2012, 02:00 PM
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Post Re: Homeless solutions

I was thinking of how there are various 'homes' for different groups of people like...
runaway children, offenders recently released from jail, battered spouses. Any others like that?
Those different categories have one thing in common, they're homeless.
Wonder if more programs could be created to take in more homeless along these styles of housing?
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  #10  
Old December 20th, 2012, 02:14 PM
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Default Re: Homeless solutions

Ron, while it is an admirable idea, I have to agree with Greg. Once you put out the free food, the birds will flock from all over.

Second item to consider is wasn't the temporary shelter that Lingle set up on the West side of the Island not completely full with many people still choosing to live on the beaches and parks, with the reason being too much restrictions with living in the shelter?

I would think we would need to stop attacking issues piecemeal and slowly start to attack the source. Homelessness, jobs, personnel finances, etc are all related. Then to do so without allowing a free ride for abusers to any programs.

Things to possibly consider:

Instead of building housing for individuals to live for free, build cheap housing for them to afford, so they have ownership, thus the restrictions may be lessened. To qualify, they will need to meet with a financial manager who will look at their income sources and how to budget that income(should not be buying a luxury car when their finances cannot support it, even consider public transportation). If they have no income source, then they will need to be placed into a program to learn or better a current skill that will place them into the workforce. If that cannot happen because of current economy and lack of jobs, place them to work for the state in some temporary job that they qualify for (answering phones, assist in licencing divisions, etc.) If these individuals have kids, another program should be checking on the kids, to make sure that they are being taken care of and the money that is intended to be allocated for their use is not being spent in other fashion. This will open jobs within the state (I would rather grow the Govenment instead of taking the same dollars and giving it away to welfare and unemployment). Progrrams for the mentally incapacitated will also kick in to assist those that fall under this category. And yes I would advocate for Drug testing to stay on this program.

All of these programs must be working together wholistically and not just on thier own agenda.

I know it is a large wish list, but hopefully, you take care of those that want to get back on thier feet and weed out those just along for a free ride.

If the program is successful, it won't solve Greg's initial concern of people coming in from other areas outside of Hawaii.

I know that this is not a perfect plan but I believe we need to be heading towards this direction.
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  #11  
Old December 20th, 2012, 02:20 PM
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Default Re: Homeless solutions

Also, if you need aid to support your dependents, having another child should not increase your aid, but remain the same. We can't stop paying freely for people's bad decisions.
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  #12  
Old December 20th, 2012, 03:17 PM
Ron Whitfield Ron Whitfield is offline
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Default Re: Homeless solutions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Menehune Man View Post
I was thinking of how there are various 'homes' for different groups of people like runaway children, offenders recently released from jail, battered spouses, etc. Those different categories have one thing in common, they're homeless. Wonder if more programs could be created to take in more homeless along these styles of housing?
Some would require specialized attention beyond merely a safe room, but many could benefit greatly from my simple idea. You have to start with a dignified offer for those in need, then follow up with whatever else. If a viable alternative to squating outdoors is available, then draconian laws may be acceptable in cleaning up the public spaces. But there are no acceptable places for the average single citizen currently.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moto View Post
Once you put out the free food, the birds will flock from all over.

wasn't the temporary shelter that Lingle set up on the West side of the Island not completely full with many people still choosing to live on the beaches and parks, with the reason being too much restrictions with living in the shelter?

I would think we would need to stop attacking issues piecemeal and slowly start to attack the source. Homelessness, jobs, personnel finances, etc are all related. Then to do so without allowing a free ride for abusers to any programs.

Instead of building housing for individuals to live for free, build cheap housing for them to afford, so they have ownership, thus the restrictions may be lessened. To qualify, they will need to meet with a financial manager who will look at their income sources and how to budget that income(should not be buying a luxury car when their finances cannot support it, even consider public transportation). If they have no income source, then they will need to be placed into a program to learn or better a current skill that will place them into the workforce. If these individuals have kids, another program should be checking on the kids, to make sure that they are being taken care of and the money that is intended to be allocated for their use is not being spent in other fashion.

And yes I would advocate for Drug testing to stay on this program.
There has to be an x year residency requirement and other restrictions to keep that from happening.

Even the Kakaako shelter is said to have 30 or so spaces usually available. But a culture of outdoor survival has been nurtured over these last decades to where people know they can live in a lowest level existance doing as they please without the restrictions of a shelter. If they can't smoke their ciggies/drink/drug/party/come and go where/when they want to then many will opt for the great outdoors of freedom often without due respect for themselves or others. We will never get all the sane people to agree to even a few rules, but many will, and it's the salvageables that I'm focusing on, whom do deserve the offer and can better everybody concerned with a little free help.

There are already transitional programs, my plan bypasses the hindrances of transitionals which many don't need or are adverse to. It goes straight to the first hand problem... a safe long term home, other issues can be dealt with afterwards if needed. The available shelters already do the financial mgr. aspects for those who want that, but most people will never take on a flunky job so they can then hand over their paltry hard earned cash to a mgr. so they can transition to rental housing that will probably end at some point and then return to the street. I've been there too often with being norbal and paying rent, it doesn't last, you can't truly call it home because it's temporary. I've found various ways around that delima, but most can't and will be subjicated to an endlessly depressing cycle that leads back to the streets.
And, my plan is for singles only, no families, no shacking up, no collective fun, 1 home for 1 person and no visiting another's shelter. This rule helps keep problems under control and riff raff out.

I'd be more for booze testing. Drug testing means if someone smokes a bit of pot then they're left out in the cold. Not helpful. The job market is already greatly diminished for millions because of this aspect.
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Old December 20th, 2012, 04:01 PM
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Default Re: Homeless solutions

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Originally Posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
And, my plan is for singles only, no families, no shacking up, no collective fun, 1 home for 1 person and no visiting another's shelter. This rule helps keep problems under control and riff raff out.

I'd be more for booze testing. Drug testing means if someone smokes a bit of pot then they're left out in the cold. Not helpful. The job market is already greatly diminished for millions because of this aspect.
Housing for single people only. Testing for booze, but not weed.

Sounds a little too exclusionary/agenda-specific for a benefits program that is to be funded by taxpayers.

There are boarding houses/apartments out there for singles w/o families, y'know. Tenants gotta pay for their own rent, though. Which is the way it should be.
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Old December 20th, 2012, 05:55 PM
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Unhappy Re: Homeless solutions

A man I knew lost his domicile. I told him he could spend a week or to camping in our back yard. We provided electricity and water. 5 months later he was still there. We gave him a deadline till June 30. Finally he found a place on the North Shore, work for lodging. He is bi-polar.

He moved, but still has our 4-man tent not yet returned; his bike was stolen while he was here (it was wrecked, and he was trying to fix it).

I fellt sorry for him and wanted to reach out, but my resources were limited. We drove him around to examine several homeless shelters, but he refused, either due to conditions or rules, each time. Our yard was more comfortable.

People need a place where they can protect their belongings, where they can feel safe when they close their eyes.

O`ahu has a long way to go. We can't house the people we have, we should bar the gates against potential future residents who don't have the resources to be homefull. We need a q'nairre before booking to let us know their intentions.
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Old December 20th, 2012, 06:41 PM
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People need to have a mindset that isn't always overloaded with bottom line survival aspects so they can get a constant good nite's sleep and de-stress to start actually putting their lives together and focus on hope for more improvements. My plan prioritizes these most basic things, without such there is little chance of getting them towards something better.
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Old January 6th, 2013, 04:55 PM
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Default Re: Homeless solutions

The amazing thing is that providing for needy in any way begets rules and regulations that don't or won't or can't be adhered to as well as you will always have the oddballs hollaring "communistic!" We could offer all these things to them and then we would be aggravated when we sat back and watched them spend what money they did come across on what they WANTED just in the same manner people watch those on welfare and spit and cuss about their pimpin rims, blaster speakers, pagers, cell phones, nails and extensions while on the almighty dole. I even questioned why they allowed a person getting assistance to do as they chose with their money and was given the answer, "Because it would communistic to tell them what to do with their money."
Wow.

And p.s. the 1200 some odd views are likely the bots being discussed several threads up as opposed to any member here that have no desire to comment or suggest.
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Old January 6th, 2013, 05:20 PM
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Default Re: Homeless solutions

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Originally Posted by Kaonohi View Post
... we should bar the gates against potential future residents who don't have the resources to be homefull.
Can't. ..........
Quote:
Freedom of movement under United States law is governed primarily by the Privileges and Immunities Clause of the United States Constitution which states, "The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom...ted_States_law
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Old January 7th, 2013, 03:21 PM
Ron Whitfield Ron Whitfield is offline
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Originally Posted by memorylane View Post
providing for needy in any way begets rules and regulations that don't or won't or can't be adhered to as well as you will always have the oddballs hollaring "communistic!"
My plan doesn't/can't address all the afflicted, it is aimed solely at the thousands who are willing and able to conform, maintain, and benefit for the long haul, even in the most minimal of ways. Of those many, there will be a few who excel from the opportunities provided and will lead highly productive lives that the community can benefit from, whom would have otherwise been lost.
There are so many positives from this basic act of common sense and decency, that to ignore them and the fairly easy solutions is senseless.

I stumbled upon K108's (1080AM radio) Carroll Cox and his Sunday morning show (8-10am) which focuses on local politics and injustices. Amidst all the ramblings was a rare voice of the gutter public being allowed to be heard, with listener call-ins and street people telling some very ugly first hand tales concerning the homeless and those profiteering from them. www.carrollcox.com
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Old January 8th, 2013, 02:52 PM
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Default Re: Homeless solutions

It's not like my plan is such a departure from what is available for families, vets, and other 'groups' that qualify for upgraded situations. But the large group of singles is always neglected, not just as low priority but as NO priority. Here's an example of what is available for some http://www.riveroflifemission.org/residential.htm That look's like a real home, my planned 'home' is less than a shack comparatively. But it at least gives a person SOMETHING, a place to start getting it back together instead of under the cracks that millions are falling thru.

Gov. Neil's big move of guiding indy groups who for years fed the needy at parks and elsewhere towards consolidating their efforts with the more established providers has done nothing to help, but in fact greatly lessened the options of basic nutrition. IHS and River Of Life, Honolulu's two main soup kitchen's to whom the others were told to partner with, have not upped their serving times or nutritional amounts, in fact they are said to often be worse than before Abercrombie and his homeless czar's dastardly deeds, and it was already threadbare at these places even tho they get substantial Gmt. money for every plate of food they serve.

Here's an interesting article that paints a typically bleak picture of Kakaako's homeless shelter Next Step http://www.civilbeat.com/articles/20...eless-shelter/ This warehouse was said to be a temporary fix, years ago, yet what has happened to anything considered an improvement?
A caller on Cox's show said there's usually no hot water and toilet paper is doled out in small amounts right at the shelter's main desk, plus rats and the bed bug infestation remain rampant, and not even patches to the massively leaking roof. No friggin dignity there, folks. We, as a society (in the Land Of Aloha(?) need to do much better!

Last edited by Ron Whitfield; January 8th, 2013 at 03:15 PM.
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Old January 8th, 2013, 03:50 PM
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Default Re: Homeless solutions

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Originally Posted by GregLee View Post
Quote:
Freedom of movement under United States law is governed primarily by the Privileges and Immunities Clause of the United States Constitution which states, "The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom...ted_States_law
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We, as a society (in the Land Of Aloha(?) need to do much better!
On one hand, we have droves of homeless/unemployed people from other parts of this country flocking to these islands. And on the other, we expect the governor and the very limited resources of our state to somehow solve this problem single-handedly.

It doesn't add up, folks.

Every year going back to I-Don't-Know-When, public schools would issue out these federal survey cards designed to identify each-and-every student (like military dependents) who would count towards money the DOE would get from Federal Impact Aid. It seems to me that in a similar way, our state is being over-burdened by too many freeloaders who come to Hawaii to escape the mainland weather and expect a handout while not contributing a cent to our state's depleted tax coffers.

Bottom line: Pity for the homeless doesn't build housing. Only $$$$ does. If Hawaii can't stop the homeless from the mainland entering our shores, then the federal govt. needs to step up with supplementary funding to help our state tackle this problem. We can't do it alone.
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Old January 8th, 2013, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Frankie's Market View Post
On one hand, we have droves of homeless/unemployed people from other parts of this country flocking to these islands. And on the other, we expect the governor and the very limited resources of our state to somehow solve this problem single-handedly.
I don't think the numbers of yearly freeloaders is all that high, maybe no different than California, and maybe even way less. And since we're Hawaii, we can expect a certain number of future dependants. But another main point towards my argument is that no matter how many underprivileged we have, doing what we are currently doing isn't really helping, in fact it's costing us more than if we just ponied up the dough to take proper care of those in need. Proactive caretaking ends up being cheaper than letting people wallow until they need an ambulance and Fire Dept. crews, sometimes for the bazillionth time, and then much higher healthcare costs are incured that our tax dollars end up paying for. This state is swimming in money, but little of it goes anywhere productive in regards to the street lifers.
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Old January 9th, 2013, 05:42 AM
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This state is swimming in money,
And right there, you've lost your grip on the reality of the situation.
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Old January 9th, 2013, 02:49 PM
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There's money available, gobs of it, just not in the hands of those who can make the best use of it.
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Old January 9th, 2013, 10:19 PM
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Default Re: Homeless solutions

As soon as the state sets up decent living conditions for the homeless, I'm selling my home, stashing my assets, and moving in. That's exactly what I'm looking for - free housing, free utilities, free food, free medical and free whatever else I can get. I'm sure plenty would enjoy a pineapple dole. I don't need to drink, smoke or do any drugs. A bicycle and a bus pass are all the transportation I need - thank God you're trying to fulfill my dreams of paradise, Ron.
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Old January 10th, 2013, 08:27 PM
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thank God you're trying to fulfill my dreams of paradise, Ron.
If what I'm planning suits your needs and your assets are untraceable, have at it. I know many will take the wrong advantage of it, but that's an example of the small price that must be paid to get what needs done, done.
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