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  • Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

    Originally posted by tutusue View Post
    What exactly does "should be done" mean?

    Not everyone agrees with you, Susie, so I guess we're "gonna argue this" 'til we run out of steam. It's current. It's newsworthy. It's a hotly emotional issue. The public emotions on Oahu (and probably the rest of the state) are palpable. You live half way around the world. Many of us live or work within a very short distance of the crime. We see the makeshift memorial and it's visitors on a daily basis. Some of us know friends and family of Baby Cyrus.

    HawaiiThreads is a place to discuss/"argue"/dissect...whatever one wants to call it...current, newsworthy and hotly emotional stories. HT members have the freedom of choice to stay in the thread or ignore it.

    ETA: Altho' off topic the Janel and Cyrus stories are permeating the news. Yesterday afternoon I was behind an SUV driving down Queen St. in bumper to bumper traffic. It gave me time to notice and read the rear window of that car...a memorial tribute to Janel including her birthdate and DoD. Since it was so soon after her murder I'm guessing it might've been a family member. So incredibly sad.

    What I meant was that it was all the grampa's fault, so HE should get the blame.

    Just because I'm not right there doesn't mean I'm not touched...surely you don't mean to imply that some are more equal than others in feeling the emotions of this case?

    What I meant about the arguing is that getting into fights about who is to blame serves nothing. Many people here have come up with good and perhaps valid ideas of why it happened and how it might have been prevented. But, until we manage to get inside the head of the man that actually did the thing, none of us will know for sure.

    In the meantime, I am wondering how much all of this will impact not only other families in the same situation with the child protection services, but also with any unfortunate, less 'guilty' family, who happens to make an honest mistake or error.
    http://thissmallfrenchtown.blogspot.com/
    http://thefrenchneighbor.blogspot.com/

    Comment


    • Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

      Originally posted by SusieMisajon View Post
      What I meant was that it was all the grampa's fault, so HE should get the blame.
      [...]
      What I meant about the arguing is that getting into fights about who is to blame serves nothing.
      [...]
      Hmmm...let's see...
      You blame the grandfather but don't want people to argue or get into fights about who they blame because it "serves nothing"? Do you not see the dichotomy in this?

      I'll offer my opinion...I do NOT blame the grandfather any more than I blame anyone else. It's ALL the grandfather's fault in your opinion? Oh Lordy...that statement is capable of inciting a riot!

      Comment


      • Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

        So much for tongue-in-cheek.
        http://thissmallfrenchtown.blogspot.com/
        http://thefrenchneighbor.blogspot.com/

        Comment


        • Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

          Originally posted by SusieMisajon View Post
          So much for tongue-in-cheek.
          yeah, and so much for admitting you're wrong when you're wrong, or admitting, at least, that you were sloppy in conveying your thoughts before posting. if you don't like that you're being challenged on what you say, then don't post them, or--as i prefer--be more thoughtful before hitting "submit reply." this isn't the first time you've posted so flippantly, and as a result, come off as rude and/or more. i'd be happy to be corrected if i'm wrong, but you've never owned up on your more insensitive and frankly, out-of-line posts (remember the one where you got up adrian's ass for inquiring about smart cars when he had just left his walmart job?), the ones on this thread included.

          long live the backpedal, apparently.
          superbia (pride), avaritia (greed), luxuria (lust), invidia (envy), gula (gluttony), ira (wrath) & acedia (sloth)--the seven deadly sins.

          "when you wake up in the morning, tell yourself: the people i deal with today will be meddling, ungrateful, arrogant, dishonest, jealous, and surly..."--meditations, marcus aurelius (make sure you read the rest of the passage, ya lazy wankers!)

          nothing humiliates like the truth.--me, in conversation w/mixedplatebroker re 3rd party, 2009-11-11, 1213

          Comment


          • Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

            I wasn't backpedaling.
            http://thissmallfrenchtown.blogspot.com/
            http://thefrenchneighbor.blogspot.com/

            Comment


            • Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

              Originally posted by SusieMisajon View Post
              I wasn't backpedaling.
              hmm. let's consider.

              Originally posted by SusieMisajon View Post
              The parents of the man that threw the baby off the bridge should have been sterilized.
              Originally posted by SusieMisajon View Post
              Ah. Let me rephrase that: The grandparents of the baby should have been sterilized.
              okay, that wasn't technically backpedalling. that's a complete rewriting.

              Originally posted by SusieMisajon View Post
              I was simply trying to make the point that sterilization isn't the answer...but got rather caught up in my own answers to you. I guess I shoulda said, from the start. Sorry.

              Originally posted by SusieMisajon View Post
              The grandfather should be done for dereliction of duty, as he was taking a nap.

              How much longer are we gonna argue this?
              Originally posted by SusieMisajon View Post
              What I meant was that it was all the grampa's fault, so HE should get the blame....

              What I meant about the arguing is that getting into fights about who is to blame serves nothing. Many people here have come up with good and perhaps valid ideas of why it happened and how it might have been prevented. But, until we manage to get inside the head of the man that actually did the thing, none of us will know for sure.

              there's a lot of "what i meant was" and "i should have said" and "i was trying to make the point that" there for someone who claims she isn't backpedalling.
              superbia (pride), avaritia (greed), luxuria (lust), invidia (envy), gula (gluttony), ira (wrath) & acedia (sloth)--the seven deadly sins.

              "when you wake up in the morning, tell yourself: the people i deal with today will be meddling, ungrateful, arrogant, dishonest, jealous, and surly..."--meditations, marcus aurelius (make sure you read the rest of the passage, ya lazy wankers!)

              nothing humiliates like the truth.--me, in conversation w/mixedplatebroker re 3rd party, 2009-11-11, 1213

              Comment


              • Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

                You might understand it, if you begin with tongue-in-cheek. I was making a statement against sterilization.
                http://thissmallfrenchtown.blogspot.com/
                http://thefrenchneighbor.blogspot.com/

                Comment


                • Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

                  Originally posted by Originally Posted by pzarquon
                  There are a few bridges that have such fencing, but the vast majority of them do not. I didn't think anything of it until visiting the East Coast and seeing bridges almost completely (and sometimes completely) enclosed. Or at least with 6' high fences that arch inward at the top.

                  Originally posted by AlohaKine View Post
                  I've seen this most often in high crime urban areas.
                  All our interstate overpasses have the tall extended fencing. On my way to work I pass through an affluent community and their high school pedestrian overpass is enclosed.
                  Lovena

                  Comment


                  • Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

                    Originally posted by SusieMisajon View Post
                    You might understand it, if you begin with tongue-in-cheek. I was making a statement against sterilization.
                    that only works if people know that's the device you're using. and since no one did, whose fault is that?

                    anyway, my point was made. i'd appreciate more clarity in your future posts, please. that way i can tell when you're being 'tongue in cheek' versus just 'out of line.' i'm sure there are more than a few who feel the same.
                    superbia (pride), avaritia (greed), luxuria (lust), invidia (envy), gula (gluttony), ira (wrath) & acedia (sloth)--the seven deadly sins.

                    "when you wake up in the morning, tell yourself: the people i deal with today will be meddling, ungrateful, arrogant, dishonest, jealous, and surly..."--meditations, marcus aurelius (make sure you read the rest of the passage, ya lazy wankers!)

                    nothing humiliates like the truth.--me, in conversation w/mixedplatebroker re 3rd party, 2009-11-11, 1213

                    Comment


                    • Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

                      Our very own deep thinker scrivener has weighed in on Cyrus Belt's death and the city's response to it on his blog. He's unmoved, as he explains in the entry titled, "Shut the **** Up and Pay Some Social Workers":
                      I don’t think it’s that I’m unfeeling: I think I’m responding in some way to the outpouring of sentiment. So many children are mistreated and living; so many of them are suffering every day and this state doesn’t care enough to pay social workers more money, and to hire more of them so that they can actually be effective at their jobs; yet this state is about to pay a football coach $1,100,000 dollars per year. Do you know how many CPS social workers you can pay with that kind of money? I just think everyone in this state has his or her priorities messed up.
                      He moves from college football to dry erase markers to illustrate how teachers and CPS workers take too much criticism and get too little support.

                      I try not to begrudge anyone their grief or how they express it, though as I've mentioned before I don't particularly like roadside memorials or car window tributes. I'm surprised myself how I've responded to the Miller Street display. I don't think I'd begrudge anyone whose shown up there for not thinking about or worrying about other, more important things. There's always something bigger to deal with... which is probably why humans tend to cling to the little things.

                      I definitely think one reason people may feel drastically different about this tragedy is whether or not they're parents. I've certainly met others who are more perplexed at the response to the crime than the crime itself, but in general they're folks who've not had nightmares of losing their own kids in horrific ways.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

                        Originally posted by Ipo View Post
                        See, I don't necessarily think that it would have happened without easy access to Cyrus.
                        That may be true. But the easy access was due to something that I bet happens even in functional families. In fact it happens every night when the parents go to sleep. The whole drug thing and past history is irrelevant.

                        Without Higa, the worst that could happen is an accident. Something that happens all too often. Still sad, but no where near the results with Higa involved.

                        Where I'm coming from is what do we as a society do, to change the system, to keep this from happening again? Do we remove the children from anyone who has a moment's inattention? That doesn't seem terribly practical. On the other hand, keeping crack-head weirdos like Higa off the street sure seems like a good move.




                        Originally posted by SusieMisajon View Post
                        What I meant was that it was all the grampa's fault, so HE should get the blame.
                        ALL? So you'd let Higa off the hook?

                        If it's all the parent's fault, why do we lock up pedophiles? These guys have their constitutional rights! The parents should be protecting their children!


                        Originally posted by pzarquon View Post
                        Our very own deep thinker scrivener has weighed in on Cyrus Belt's death and the city's response to it on his blog. He's unmoved, as he explains in the entry titled, "Shut the **** Up and Pay Some Social Workers"
                        I'm not saying that won't do some good, but as I've pointed out above, I don't think it would have made as much of a difference in this situation as the public would like. Add beefing up the mental health system and I'm game. There are too many known mentaly deranged people out there.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

                          Oh yes, I totally agree about the lack of support for the mentally ill—trust me, I have psychiatrists, psychologists, psych nurses and social workers within my circle of friends and family; and they're all frustrated about how their hands are tied in cases like this. You're right, the best thing would have been for Higa's dad to get him the help he needed right away. However, if the mental health professionals don't know about the adult and their current mental health status, they can't help him because he's an adult; and it's very hard to force an adult to get help. My point about Cyrus is that he is a child, and some professionals did know about his situation. I guess it's not (right now) considered an 'imminent danger' for a child to be in a household where the sole custodial parent has tested positive for meth or for a child to be walking down the middle of a road; but I believe it should be. I think, at the very least, had there been a more direct line of communication between the agencies involved, Cyrus would have been removed from the household, and then maybe—I said maybe—we wouldn't be having this discussion.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

                            Sorry for the double-post earlier.
                            Last edited by Ipo; January 24, 2008, 10:22 AM. Reason: I had posted the same comment twice

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                            • Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

                              hi, my name is cyn and i don't think that we, as a society, should be focusing on what could have been done to prevent this specific event from happening again. in other words, when considering solutions to the problems that led to the event of cyrus' death, we shouldn't be focused on the specific details of cyrus' death (whether a covered bridge would have prevented his death, for example).

                              we should focus on coming up with, discussing, and implementing real solutions to deal with:

                              1. the ice problem in general; indeed, the drug problem in general.

                              2. ice addicts having children they cannot care for because of their addiction (and i agree with eric that we should discuss things like offering $$ iincentives to addicts to temporarily sterilize them--not a mandatory program, but a voluntary program).

                              3. proper diagnosis & care for those who are mentally ill, whether they are inclined to violence or not (because sometimes you just can't tell), while recognizing that EVERY patient, mentally ill or not, has certain rights.

                              4. supporting agencies like child protective and adult protective services (this is tied in to reducing brain drain in hawaii, for one thing, but it relates to other large issues we face in hawaii).

                              well thanks for your time. =)
                              superbia (pride), avaritia (greed), luxuria (lust), invidia (envy), gula (gluttony), ira (wrath) & acedia (sloth)--the seven deadly sins.

                              "when you wake up in the morning, tell yourself: the people i deal with today will be meddling, ungrateful, arrogant, dishonest, jealous, and surly..."--meditations, marcus aurelius (make sure you read the rest of the passage, ya lazy wankers!)

                              nothing humiliates like the truth.--me, in conversation w/mixedplatebroker re 3rd party, 2009-11-11, 1213

                              Comment


                              • Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

                                Originally posted by ericncyn View Post
                                3. proper diagnosis & care for those who are mentally ill, whether they are inclined to violence or not (because sometimes you just can't tell), while recognizing that EVERY patient, mentally ill or not, has certain rights.
                                http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showthr...Mental+Illness

                                Mental Illness is TREATABLE!Open da bottle, put pill inside dee mouth, swallow with wata!

                                Auntie Lynn
                                Be AKAMAI ~ KOKUA Hawai`i!
                                Philippians 4:13 --- I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

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