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View Poll Results: A "Hawaii Geocachers Association"?
Would like to see an association formed 12 70.59%
Don't want an association, or wouldn't join 5 29.41%
Really not sure 0 0%
Voters: 17. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old August 13th, 2008, 01:43 PM
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Question A "Hawaii Geocachers Association"?

What is your opinion on organizing an association here in Hawaii?
Do you think it would be useful? If so how?
Do you think it may be harmful? If so how?

Please take the poll.
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  #2  
Old August 13th, 2008, 02:29 PM
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Default Re: A "Hawaii Geocachers Association"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Menehune Man View Post
What is your opinion on organizing an association here in Hawaii?
Do you think it would be useful? If so how?
Do you think it may be harmful? If so how?

Please take the poll.
Sounds like an idea. But what poll?
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  #3  
Old August 13th, 2008, 05:13 PM
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Cool Re: A "Hawaii Geocachers Association"?

Hey all,
Hope all your summer is going well. All is well here in San Angelo, Texas. Hot as the surface of the Sun though. Have no interest to cache here, yet.

As for the topic, when we arrived in SD in December, The Black Hills Geocaching Association was the group that had formed in the area. it was a robust group and great way to organize events. When we left, they had just made cool t-shirts for all of us. I only wish I could have participated more with them before we left.

Anyway, if I was there, I would support the forming of a group. It would lead to more "official" sounding affiliation when dealing with DLNR...

Have a great "rest o' summer".
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  #4  
Old August 13th, 2008, 08:07 PM
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Post Re: A "Hawaii Geocachers Association"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wai`anaeCrider View Post
...But what poll?
It's at the very top of this thread, above the first post.
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  #5  
Old August 14th, 2008, 01:20 PM
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Default Re: A "Hawaii Geocachers Association"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Menehune Man View Post
What is your opinion on organizing an association here in Hawaii?
Do you think it would be useful? If so how?
Do you think it may be harmful? If so how?

Please take the poll.
Thanks for doing this Jeff. I think the poll is a great idea but I can't help but think that the results are going to be somewhat skewed by just asking the folks that participate on this forum. I think this for a few reasons.

1. This forum is not very active and therefore is not representative of the growing numbers of cachers we have in Hawaii.
2. The type of person that takes the time to articulate their thoughts in a forum is quite a bit more likely to favor an organization.

I'd like to propose that we hold an event sometime in the future for the purpose of having an open discussion if a Geocaching Association is something that would be to the mutual benefit of all. On that cache page, I'd like to include an online survey that would give every cacher in Hawaii a chance to sound off on this even if they didn't attend.
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Old August 14th, 2008, 01:37 PM
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Post Re: A "Hawaii Geocachers Association"?

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Originally Posted by Team GeoBlast View Post
I'd like to propose that we hold an event sometime in the future for the purpose of having an open discussion if a Geocaching Association is something that would be to the mutual benefit of all. On that cache page, I'd like to include an online survey that would give every cacher in Hawaii a chance to sound off on this even if they didn't attend.
I think that would be a great way to get the conversation started again.
Also to get geocachers ideas and concerns on the possibility of an association.

Cool!
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  #7  
Old August 14th, 2008, 01:44 PM
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Default Re: A "Hawaii Geocachers Association"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Menehune Man View Post
What is your opinion on organizing an association here in Hawaii?
Do you think it would be useful? If so how?
Do you think it may be harmful? If so how?

Please take the poll.
On the pros and cons, I think I could argue both sides fairly well.

Pro:

1. A collective voice on the direction of Geocaching in the future.
2. A forum to address issues proactively before they become critical.
3. A local venue for land managers to approach and voice their concerns about Geocaching.
4. A way to grow relationships with other cachers and provide education about getting started in caching, areas to avoid placing caches.

Con:

1. Geocaching is pure fun and recreation. An organization is work.
2. Liability. There is currently no place to point the finger when things go wrong.
3. Possibility of dividing the local community. I have seen this in other areas where the people that participate in the organization are considered Geo-cops.
4. Organizations can intimidate land owners and they might feel forced to say "no" to Geocaching because there is now a body to officially say no too.

As you all are aware, I've just had some very positive contact with DLNR but was presented with some less than positive comments from one of their land managers. I did not feel that I could answer him on my own and sought consensus on what I should say. I did my best to get a consensus and was not able to do it. I elected to ignore the land manager and not respond.

One thing that I found very discouraging about trying to get opinions on this subject is the reluctance of people to say what is on their mind. It's my experience that there are some pretty experienced cachers that are for an organization and there are some that are against forming an organization. I have done my best to summarize both sides above.

I noted that there was one cacher on the survey that put in a no vote already. We need to hear both sides of this and I wish people would share what is on their minds.
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  #8  
Old August 14th, 2008, 10:18 PM
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Thumbs up Re: A "Hawaii Geocachers Association"?

Thanks TGB!
Nice job on sharing the Pros & Cons.

I've never been of the persuasion that...
Because they do it 'over' there, we should do it here.
But because they have, that means it is possible here also.

I feel that eventually Geocaching will be challenged here in Hawaii as a whole,
like it was partly on Maui in the past. So far so good. Meaning the status quo won't remain that way forever. I believe that having a Geocaching Association in place would be helpful when that time comes. Okay, that's the serious stuff.

Then there's the fun stuff!
Refer to TGB's post above and think up more.
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  #9  
Old August 14th, 2008, 10:41 PM
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Default Re: A "Hawaii Geocachers Association"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Menehune Man View Post
What is your opinion on organizing an association here in Hawaii?
Do you think it would be useful? If so how?
Do you think it may be harmful? If so how?

Please take the poll.
To sum it up I am for it. As a newbie somewhere to turn to in the begining would have been great. From simple things as whats a good gps, to whats a puzzle cache and how do you solve them, and who is this Geogerm guy getting all the FTF's. Luckly we stumbled onto the thread which has helped alot (but we still have trouble on the puzzles), I'm still reading back threads on ettiqute and stuff and learning alot.

On the flip side an association could be intimidating, specially if your a rookie. What I would not want others to feel is that its a special club for veterans only and that they would not join. By my own admittance of being a newbie that could be me. Also I deal with neighborhood associations alot through work and have realized that its alot of work without any pay.

In all getting out to the events helped us. I have been fortunte to meet some really friendly veteran cachers and through talking story learned alot. I even know who GG is and keep an eye out from him on our next rush to a FTF! Now only if I can wake up early enough to get one.
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  #10  
Old August 15th, 2008, 03:30 AM
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Default Re: A "Hawaii Geocachers Association"?

I like to "join" things. But after 14 years as President of the Pig Hunters Association of O`ahu I won't take another office in any organization. I'm "lead" out.
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  #11  
Old August 15th, 2008, 12:31 PM
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Default Re: A "Hawaii Geocachers Association"?

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Originally Posted by Wai`anaeCrider View Post
I like to "join" things. But after 14 years as President of the Pig Hunters Association of O`ahu I won't take another office in any organization. I'm "lead" out.
This is probably the area that I feel the most strongly about on the forming of an Geocaching organization. I don't think that the structure of a Geocaching Association should be top down with one person in the lead. That's not how Geocaching in Hawaii feels to me.

I've taken a look at the way other associations have been put together and have asked around trying to understand the up and downside of starting an organization. Erik, our reviewer, was one of the founders of GGA (Georgia Geocaching Association) in 2001 and he suggested that I take a look at their website. This is one of the oldest and strongest organizations out there and I think it is a proven model worth considering. It is run by a steering committee of 8 people (with two people retiring each year and two people being added each year). Nobody is in solely in charge and the burden of leadership is spread out over 8 people. He says their main reason for this structure as that one person is responsible for the organization's actions but I see other benefits.

The simplicity of the GGA is what is most attractive to me. It doesn't cost anything to join. All you need to do to be a member is to attend one meeting, supply your email, name, and geonick. They pay for things by passing the hat at meetings and always have more money than they know what to do with. There's no taxes, 501-c3, or admin bogging them down. The majority of the admin work is updating their website every month.

I see another no vote up there on the survey. I am glad people are at least taking the initiative to check the box. I hope it doesn't stop there. We need to hear all sides of this and checking a box and remaining anonymous is not going help people consider all sides.
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  #12  
Old August 15th, 2008, 12:51 PM
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Default Re: A "Hawaii Geocachers Association"?

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Originally Posted by Kalohepirate View Post
To sum it up I am for it. As a newbie somewhere to turn to in the begining would have been great. From simple things as whats a good gps, to whats a puzzle cache and how do you solve them, and who is this Geogerm guy getting all the FTF's. Luckly we stumbled onto the thread which has helped alot (but we still have trouble on the puzzles), I'm still reading back threads on ettiqute and stuff and learning alot.

On the flip side an association could be intimidating, specially if your a rookie. What I would not want others to feel is that its a special club for veterans only and that they would not join. By my own admittance of being a newbie that could be me. Also I deal with neighborhood associations alot through work and have realized that its alot of work without any pay.

In all getting out to the events helped us. I have been fortunte to meet some really friendly veteran cachers and through talking story learned alot. I even know who GG is and keep an eye out from him on our next rush to a FTF! Now only if I can wake up early enough to get one.
Thanks KP. you are not alone as this was my experience starting out too. When I started Geocaching, I did everything pretty much everything wrong. I invented so many new ways to screw up a cache placement, I should have applied for a patent. The only local place to ask questions I found was this forum and I pretty much got snubbed when I asked newbie questions.

I posted some pretty simple questions like "what do folks carry in their geo-kit" and I got very little or no response. Probably the most memorable was starting a thread asking what people's favorite cache was. When I got NO RESPONSE from that, I got the feeling that this was some exclusive group of friends that didn't want new comers. The volume of puzzle caches (ratio was much higher than it is now) didn't help that feeling either. At one point, I started thinking that this whole thing was some kind of an inside joke that I didn't get.

It's probably why I spend so much time in here posting things. I don't want anyone to feel like I did starting out because the reality it that once you crack the surface, it is not like that at all.

Last edited by Team GeoBlast; August 15th, 2008 at 12:58 PM.
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  #13  
Old August 15th, 2008, 02:15 PM
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Default Re: A "Hawaii Geocachers Association"?

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Originally Posted by Team GeoBlast View Post
The simplicity of the GGA is what is most attractive to me. It doesn't cost anything to join. All you need to do to be a member is to attend one meeting, supply your email, name, and geonick. They pay for things by passing the hat at meetings and always have more money than they know what to do with. There's no taxes, 501-c3, or admin bogging them down. The majority of the admin work is updating their website every month.
This is how the Long Island Geocaching association works also. While I didn't have the best experience interacting with some LI cachers when I was out there last year, the interaction with the LIGEO group was great. And they are 'group run', no fees, etc. They do seem to be running into the issue of the 'geocop' phenomenon, but, at least on LI, that seems to be happening both inside and outside the LIGEO group.

None of us (except maybe Da Hui, LOL) have time to participate in this like it's work. But I do agree with Mike that we need to proactively engage folks like DLNR now, before 'someone' decides that they won't allow any caches on DLNR land. And it would be great to introduce new Hawaii cachers to things like what types of containers work here, how to attempt to find a DadWrap cache (has anyone else wandered into the Iolani Archives yet looking like a fool -- I did that but now have figured out what I need to find and have to go BACK!), etc.

'Course this is from the person who only makes 1 of every 3 'group meets' if we're lucky because of the rest of our Life.

Carrie
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  #14  
Old August 15th, 2008, 04:09 PM
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Default Re: A "Hawaii Geocachers Association"?

I like that Georgia steering committee model. What I have observed in other organization/clubs is that usually there is a small number of people who carry the ball and do most of the work. After a while (CRider experience) they get burned out and the organization falls apart or just limps along. I think that the eight member committee is a good compromise between continuity and spreading the work/responsibility. The only concern I have is that with that arrangement members of the committee will end up serving for four years. That is kind of a long time so I would suggest that four (rather than 2) rotate out each year. That way each person only serves for two years..
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Old August 15th, 2008, 10:23 PM
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Default Re: A "Hawaii Geocachers Association"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Team GeoBlast View Post
I posted some pretty simple questions like "what do folks carry in their geo-kit"
Gee that was going to be my next question here.

I like the Georgia model also but agree that a 2 year term would probably be more agreeable for some. Also there should be nothing stopping you from serving again but only after maybe a two year break.
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  #16  
Old August 16th, 2008, 12:51 AM
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Thumbs up Re: A "Hawaii Geocachers Association"?

I feel the reason for geocaching organizations is exactly as the GGA proposed.
"Our goal in the G.G.A. is to advance the activity of Geocaching through two different methods: Education, and Effort! We feel that through helping others who are interested in Geocaching to learn more about the activity, safety, experience, etc. that we will foster more fun and enjoyment for the activity in general. Also, by making an effort as a group to gain acceptance of Geocaching in all areas we will make the activity more fun for everyone. Each method feeds the other. It's a win-win philosophy! ;-)"

And they even have suggestions on how to start/maintain an organization.
http://www.ggaonline.org/clubdocs.html

I wouldn't want it to be considered a "Geo-Cop" situation.
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Old August 16th, 2008, 01:22 AM
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Post Re: A "Hawaii Geocachers Association"?

A good way to "Get it out there" if an organization is formed,
would be to add an online link to it on all of our cache pages.
That way any newbies would have the possibility of "hearing about it".
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  #18  
Old August 16th, 2008, 04:37 AM
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Default Re: A "Hawaii Geocachers Association"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Team GeoBlast View Post
I posted some pretty simple questions like "what do folks carry in their geo-kit" and I got very little or no response. Probably the most memorable was starting a thread asking what people's favorite cache was. When I got NO RESPONSE from that, I got the feeling that this was some exclusive group of friends that didn't want new comers. The volume of puzzle caches (ratio was much higher than it is now) didn't help that feeling either. At one point, I started thinking that this whole thing was some kind of an inside joke that I didn't get.
You know, there may be other reasons why people did not answer you other than they were snubbing you. I didn't answer because I don't have a fixed "geocaching kit". If I am out on the trail I am pretty much packed for overnight. On the other hand for some urban caches I don't even have a GPS. As for favorite caches, I don't have one. Simple as that.

If the ratio of puzzle to regular caches is declining then I guess that I will have to get busy and come up with a few more puzzles. I wouldn't want you to start feeling too comfortable.
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Old August 16th, 2008, 04:52 AM
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Talking Re: A "Hawaii Geocachers Association"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Etoa Nrish View Post
1) You know, there may be other reasons why people did not answer you other than they were snubbing you. I didn't answer because I don't have a fixed "geocaching kit". If I am out on the trail I am pretty much packed for overnight. On the other hand for some urban caches I don't even have a GPS. As for favorite caches, I don't have one. Simple as that.

2) If the ratio of puzzle to regular caches is declining then I guess that I will have to get busy and come up with a few more puzzles. I wouldn't want you to start feeling too comfortable.
1) Fair enough. Sounds reasonable.

2) Hey now. You really don't have do that... HaHa!
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Old August 16th, 2008, 08:44 AM
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Default Re: A "Hawaii Geocachers Association"?

You know, there may be other reasons why people did not answer you other than they were snubbing you.

Such as.. they thought I was a geek?

If the ratio of puzzle to regular caches is declining then I guess that I will have to get busy and come up with a few more puzzles. I wouldn't want you to start feeling too comfortable.

Note to self.. open mouth, more puzzles.
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Old August 16th, 2008, 08:48 AM
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Default Re: A "Hawaii Geocachers Association"?

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Originally Posted by Kalohepirate View Post
Gee that was going to be my next question here.

I like the Georgia model also but agree that a 2 year term would probably be more agreeable for some. Also there should be nothing stopping you from serving again but only after maybe a two year break.
I think it's important that it doesn't all turn over at once. You need some continuity or you'd be starting over every year. Something to work out if the holy poly agrees that we should form a hui.
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Old August 16th, 2008, 03:28 PM
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Default Re: A "Hawaii Geocachers Association"?

Mike, I'm one of the one who voted no... basically for the reasons we've discussed and which you articulated farily well. But that was before I read about the Georgia model. I would be in favor of such a model... which, if you think about it, is pretty similar to what we have now for CITO events. It's not quite "passing the hat" but close. I don't object to a loose confederation, but I do object to having to deal with liability issues and rules violations, and negotiation, etc.
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  #23  
Old August 16th, 2008, 07:15 PM
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Default Re: A "Hawaii Geocachers Association"?

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Originally Posted by Team GeoBlast View Post
I think it's important that it doesn't all turn over at once. You need some continuity or you'd be starting over every year. Something to work out if the holy poly agrees that we should form a hui.
Hoi polloi (Greek: οἱ πολλοί), an expression meaning "the many" in Greek is used in English to denote "the masses" or "the people", usually in a derogatory sense. For example, "I've secured a private box for the play so we don't have to watch the show with hoi polloi." Synonyms for "hoi polloi" include "...commoners, great unwashed, minions, multitude, plebeians, proletariat, rabble, rank and file, riffraff, the common people, the herd, the many, the masses, the peons, the working class"
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Old August 16th, 2008, 09:31 PM
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Default Re: A "Hawaii Geocachers Association"?

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Originally Posted by Etoa Nrish View Post
Hoi polloi (Greek: οἱ πολλοί), an expression meaning "the many" in Greek is used in English to denote "the masses" or "the people", usually in a derogatory sense. For example, "I've secured a private box for the play so we don't have to watch the show with hoi polloi." Synonyms for "hoi polloi" include "...commoners, great unwashed, minions, multitude, plebeians, proletariat, rabble, rank and file, riffraff, the common people, the herd, the many, the masses, the peons, the working class"
Hey, KOOL, sounds just like me......... I like it!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  #25  
Old August 16th, 2008, 11:25 PM
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Default Re: A "Hawaii Geocachers Association"?

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Mike, I'm one of the one who voted no... basically for the reasons we've discussed and which you articulated farily well. But that was before I read about the Georgia model. I would be in favor of such a model... which, if you think about it, is pretty similar to what we have now for CITO events. It's not quite "passing the hat" but close. I don't object to a loose confederation, but I do object to having to deal with liability issues and rules violations, and negotiation, etc.
Thanks Paul... I think that it is really important that everyone (the washed and unwashed) toss in there .02 at this point. I probably appreciate the con comments more than the pro right about now. When everyone starts nodding their head up and down it becomes infectious.
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