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  • #16
    Re: Firearms in the USA

    Originally posted by bjd392 View Post
    By then, your insurance company should have already compensated you on the loss.
    Are you an insurance agent or an insurance sucker? Why insure your possessions against loss below an easily replaceable limit, say $2,000? That's just throwing money away as the actuarial tables nearly guarantee your loss, unless you game the system with false reporting [to compensate for others doing the same].
    May I always be found beneath your contempt.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Firearms in the USA

      Originally posted by salmoned View Post
      Are you an insurance agent or an insurance sucker? Why insure your possessions against loss below an easily replaceable limit, say $2,000? That's just throwing money away as the actuarial tables nearly guarantee your loss, unless you game the system with false reporting [to compensate for others doing the same].
      Neither. Are you a professional gamer? I have filed receipts, warranties, photocopies of serial numbers and anything else pertinent of whatever I consider valuable to me, so it's pretty plain-as-day what the price of each item is should they be lost.

      Having a high deductible and footing most of the loss out of pocket makes insurance cheaper. Submitting too many insurance claims also flags on applications and makes rates go up.

      When it comes to most belongings, you'll be compensated after an estimate and depreciation on the value. Having one thing stolen, or maybe a window broken is an easy repair that you more than likely won't even call the insurance agent for. It's there in the event of something big, like a fire, ransacking, catastrophe, other damages... Those "little things under $2000" all start to add up. But if you want to pay for their replacement on your own, feel free.

      When it comes to certain high-value or irreplacable items, like jewelry, computers, cameras and some models of firearms, sometimes the only suitable replacement value is worth more than the original price. Some belongings do appreciate, like a 1954 Fender Stratocaster.

      Perhaps you should look into some insurance options. High-value coverage can sometimes only run an extra $15/month.

      Insurance is that thing you pay for and hope to never have to use. If one goes a whole lifetime without making a claim, you would have spent thousands of dollars and the only thing you really paid for was peace of mind.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Firearms in the USA

        So far the poll seems to indicate HT's support for the 2nd Amendment - with conditions - that 'some people' (felons, MI, etc.?) be restricted and that some weapons (machine guns) should be banned. Also there's support for training and screening. Healthy choices, I think.
        Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
        ~ ~
        Kaʻonohiʻulaʻokahōkūmiomioʻehiku
        Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
        Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Firearms in the USA

          Originally posted by bjd392 View Post
          Perhaps you should look into some insurance options. High-value coverage can sometimes only run an extra $15/month.

          Insurance is that thing you pay for and hope to never have to use. If one goes a whole lifetime without making a claim, you would have spent thousands of dollars and the only thing you really paid for was peace of mind.
          Sorry, insurance is a sucker's game, even at $15/month.
          May I always be found beneath your contempt.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Firearms in the USA

            Originally posted by Kaonohi View Post
            So far the poll seems to indicate HT's support for the 2nd Amendment - with conditions - that 'some people' (felons, MI, etc.?) be restricted and that some weapons (machine guns) should be banned. Also there's support for training and screening. Healthy choices, I think.
            Wouldn't want the poll to be skewed wrong, so I added my vote. I know some of you think I live in an ivory tower - but, I don't believe in guns or violence. I have never seen a gun in real life (except a revolutionary war gun in a frame). I have never experienced violence of any kind. I wouldn't allow my son to play with toy guns or GI Joe or army men for that matter. I believe all conflicts can be resolved through peaceful means - yay, matapule!. I know - I'm looking at the world through rose colored glasses, but my feeling is..... somebody's gotta

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Firearms in the USA

              Originally posted by acousticlady View Post
              I believe all conflicts can be resolved through peaceful means - yay, matapule!. I know - I'm looking at the world through rose colored glasses, but my feeling is..... somebody's gotta
              There are many ways to live one's life. Good ol' cultural diversity. I do have an objection to the banning of G.I. Joe; that's just cruel! ;_D
              "By concealing your desires, you may trick people into being cruel about the wrong thing." --Steven Aylett, Fain the Sorcerer
              "You gotta get me to the tall corn." --David Mamet, Spartan
              "
              Amateurs talk technology, professionals talk conditions." --(unknown)

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Firearms in the USA

                Originally posted by acousticlady View Post
                Wouldn't want the poll to be skewed wrong, so I added my vote. I know some of you think I live in an ivory tower - but, I don't believe in guns or violence. I have never seen a gun in real life (except a revolutionary war gun in a frame). I have never experienced violence of any kind. I wouldn't allow my son to play with toy guns or GI Joe or army men for that matter. I believe all conflicts can be resolved through peaceful means - yay, matapule!. I know - I'm looking at the world through rose colored glasses, but my feeling is..... somebody's gotta
                Thanks for your input. We WANT the poll to be reflective of HT's beliefs and values, collectively. Otherwise it is useless.

                Please understand: I also believe all conflicts can be resolved peacably, but I prepare for the contingency that they guy with the weapon crawling in my window (gun, knife, chainsaw, bat, etc.,) may think otherwise. Often they do.

                Who was it who said, 'preach peace, but be ready for war?' That is my stance. I don't want want my friends/country/family/etc., to be decimated by those who don't share my values.

                Though we may not like it, this is still a violent world, and the violence is mostly perpetrated by criminals looking for a free ride.

                Now there is a subject for a Sci-Fi story..... Joe, are you listening?

                Eeither you protect yourself or you don't. The police say it's not their job. So, how are you being protected? Or do you believe protection is unnecessary?
                Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
                ~ ~
                Kaʻonohiʻulaʻokahōkūmiomioʻehiku
                Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
                Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Firearms in the USA

                  Originally posted by Kaonohi View Post
                  The police say it's not their job.
                  Where do you get that? Please verify that outrageous statement!

                  Paranoia rules in some circles.
                  Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

                  People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Firearms in the USA

                    Originally posted by Kaonohi View Post
                    So far the poll seems to indicate HT's support for the 2nd Amendment - with conditions - that 'some people' (felons, MI, etc.?) be restricted and that some weapons (machine guns) should be banned. Also there's support for training and screening. Healthy choices, I think.
                    Au contraire! You should say that those that have responded to your poll favor personal gun ownership. The second amendment is unclear what is meant by a regulated militia. You are too quick to look for unsubstantiated support for your position.
                    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

                    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Firearms in the USA

                      Originally posted by Kaonohi View Post
                      Eeither you protect yourself or you don't. The police say it's not their job.
                      Originally posted by matapule View Post
                      Where do you get that? Please verify that outrageous statement!
                      I'm guessing the source of that statement is the Supreme Court ruling declaring: "the police did not have a constitutional duty to protect a person from harm"

                      http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/po.../28scotus.html

                      Of course there's a big difference between saying "the police aren't forced to protect you" vs. "the police don't care".

                      I'm sure most police officers want to help others, but that doesn't always mean they are able to. There might not be enough man power to protect everyone, due to budget problems or perhaps a lot of emergencies happening at once. And I wouldn't be surprised if an officer abandoned their public duty to take care of their own family in a disaster.

                      As others have said, "When seconds count, the police are minutes away." In the end, your personal safety and that of your family are in your hands.

                      Having said that, compared to the rest of the world, America is a pretty safe place to live in (at least for now). Unless you have a risky lifestyle, most of us don't have to deal with violence on a daily basis. Awareness and preparation remain our most powerful defense against violent crime.

                      With the current state of our country, my security priorities are:

                      1) Financial security (remaining debt free except for a mortgage on a modestly priced home)
                      2) Food security (food quality and adequate food supply in case there are disruptions to the oh so profitable just-in-time inventory system)
                      3) Health/Medical security (from having extra medication on hand to being able to avoid hospitals as much as possible)
                      4) Physical security (with a flashlight and pepper spray being very useful less-than-lethal tools)
                      Last edited by MyopicJoe; January 28, 2011, 06:37 PM.
                      "By concealing your desires, you may trick people into being cruel about the wrong thing." --Steven Aylett, Fain the Sorcerer
                      "You gotta get me to the tall corn." --David Mamet, Spartan
                      "
                      Amateurs talk technology, professionals talk conditions." --(unknown)

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Firearms in the USA

                        May those without guns or insurance be the first to be burglarized... because those with both will be covered either way.

                        Secondly, an uninvited "guest" in my house will be escorted out in a body bag. That is the rule of MY HOUSE. Take it or leave it, or you can die trying. That is my unwaivered, unchangable stance. Thanks

                        Remember, a dead man can't testify at a trial. And if he's uninvited in my home, he is a felon. And yes, lethal force is authorized, justified, and in my castle, the LAW AND SOLEMN DOMAIN.

                        (No trespassing or soliticing, per the sign on my front yard.)

                        LOL.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Firearms in the USA

                          Originally posted by MyopicJoe View Post
                          I'm guessing the source of that statement is the Supreme Court ruling declaring: "the police did not have a constitutional duty to protect a person from harm"
                          Yes, that would be the conservative justices appointed by W voting in favor of that ruling, and the liberal justices voting in opposition

                          Of course there's a big difference between saying "the police aren't forced to protect you" vs. "the police don't care".
                          And that's where I am calling out Kaonohi.

                          And I wouldn't be surprised if an officer abandoned their public duty to take care of their own family in a disaster.
                          And well they should! But we are not talking about disasters here, we are talking about personal gun ownership.

                          As others have said, "When seconds count, the police are minutes away." In the end, your personal safety and that of your family are in your hands.
                          So what do you do when that terrorist hijacks the airplane? Are you going to lobby for open carry on an airplane? I don't want to be on any airplane with a gun carrying screwball, because they are all terrorists in my opinion.

                          Having said that, compared to the rest of the world, America is a pretty safe place to live in (at least for now).
                          I disagree. America is number one for deaths by gun PER CAPITA. Just too many gun nuts running around in the US.

                          1) Financial security (remaining debt free except for a mortgage on a modestly priced home)
                          2) Food security (food quality and adequate food supply in case there are disruptions to the oh so profitable just-in-time inventory system)
                          3) Health/Medical security (from having extra medication on hand to being able to avoid hospitals as much as possible)
                          4) Physical security (with a flashlight and pepper spray being very useful less-than-lethal tools)
                          1) more regulation needed on Wall Street
                          2) more regulation needed on the commodities giants
                          3) national health insurance is a step in the right direction - getting health care out of the hands of for profit insurance companies doing what is best for their stock holders rather than your personal health care
                          4) if you have pepper spray, why do you need a gun? because the other guy has one? Good luck at the shoot out at the OK Corral!

                          Originally posted by bjd392 View Post
                          May those without guns or insurance be the first to be burglarized... because those with both will be covered either way.
                          BJ, that is a truly despicable thing to say. That would get you kicked out of any Tongan village!

                          Secondly, an uninvited "guest" in my house will be escorted out in a body bag.

                          Nothing but false bravado that will likely get you killed or a lengthy jail term.

                          And if he's uninvited in my home, he is a felon. And yes, lethal force is authorized, justified, and in my castle, the LAW AND SOLEMN DOMAIN.

                          Unfortunarely, Court precedent IS NOT on your side. You can huff and you can puff all you like, but with your attitude, you may go to jail in those circumstances.

                          (No trespassing or soliticing, per the sign on my front yard.)
                          LOL.
                          What if they can't read English? There was a famous case several years ago, where a high school foreign exchange student went trick-or-treating at a house that had a sign posted that said, "no trick-or-treaters." The house owner shot the kid dead. I believe he is still in jail.

                          LOL all you want, but you are one dangerous dude. If I knew where you lived, I wouldn't come within miles of your place. You are exactly the kind of person who should be screened out from owning a gun!
                          Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

                          People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Firearms in the USA

                            Originally posted by MyopicJoe View Post
                            I'm guessing the source of that statement is the Supreme Court ruling declaring: "the police did not have a constitutional duty to protect a person from harm"

                            http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/po.../28scotus.html

                            Of course there's a big difference between saying "the police aren't forced to protect you" vs. "the police don't care".

                            I'm sure most police officers want to help others, but that doesn't always mean they are able to. There might not be enough man power to protect everyone, due to budget problems or perhaps a lot of emergencies happening at once. And I wouldn't be surprised if an officer abandoned their public duty to take care of their own family in a disaster.

                            As others have said, "When seconds count, the police are minutes away." In the end, your personal safety and that of your family are in your hands.

                            Having said that, compared to the rest of the world, America is a pretty safe place to live in (at least for now). Unless you have a risky lifestyle, most of us don't have to deal with violence on a daily basis. Awareness and preparation remain our most powerful defense against violent crime.

                            With the current state of our country, my security priorities are:

                            1) Financial security (remaining debt free except for a mortgage on a modestly priced home)
                            2) Food security (food quality and adequate food supply in case there are disruptions to the oh so profitable just-in-time inventory system)
                            3) Health/Medical security (from having extra medication on hand to being able to avoid hospitals as much as possible)
                            4) Physical security (with a flashlight and pepper spray being very useful less-than-lethal tools)
                            Without getting into all the physics of it all, I believe from the depth of my heart that the thoughts you put out into the universe are what you get back (if you think the world is out to get you , it will).

                            I have never had anything but good relations with police officers (in the 2 or 3 times I've come across them) and know they have my best interests at heart.

                            As far as you security precautions....

                            1) I agree. I am trying really hard to get there. I want to buy a house in S Florida before the prices go up again (Buying in Hawaii is way out of reach for me). That is my main objective in financial security - how does protection against violence play into this?

                            2) I agree. I need protection from hurricanes. I'm always prepared for a hurricane, even in upstate NY.

                            3) Yes, I have medical insurance. I just have no plans on using it.

                            4) I have a 10 yr old lab/chow mix that I have promised to protect in the off chance someone breaks in.

                            I also want to add that, despite having said several times that I live in a ivory tower, I actually live in an inner city, complete with gangs and everything.

                            Having said that reminds me of a lesson I learned long ago. I had somehow gotten myself lost in downtown Newark, NJ in the middle of the night. I couldn't find my way back to the highway and everything was closed. I saw a police officer, so I pulled over to ask for directions (pre-GPS). He said."I could, but I want to ask you a favor. See that gang of black kids standing on the corner over there? Drive up to them and ask for directions." Now, from afar, these kids looked like the stereotypical gang members - about 10-15 of them. Trusting in the officer, I drove up and rolled down my window and asked how to get to the highway. They all looked at me in slight disbelief that I had the guts to ask them. They then got big smiles on their faces and one of them said "Yes Ma'am" and proceeded to try and explain how to get there. I couldn't see from my car exactly where he was saying to turn. He said, "come here, you have to get out of the car to see it." So, I did. He walked with me up to the corner where we could better see the turn. Just then, one of the kid's mother came out from the building. She just wanted to thank me for having enough faith in these guys - it really meant a lot to them!

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Firearms in the USA

                              Originally posted by matapule View Post
                              But we are not talking about disasters here, we are talking about personal gun ownership.
                              I'm talking about justifications for personal gun ownership, with lack of police protection during a disaster as one of them.


                              So what do you do when that terrorist hijacks the airplane? Are you going to lobby for open carry on an airplane? I don't want to be on any airplane with a gun carrying screwball, because they are all terrorists in my opinion.
                              Uh that's bit of an extreme scenario, but in that one I would agree that people shouldn't be allowed to carry guns in a delicate environment such as a plane. I also don't believe pilots should carry either, because instead of a terrorist having to sneak a gun on board, they can take it from the pilot.

                              On a side note, conceal carry is better than open carry, IMO.


                              I disagree. America is number one for deaths by gun PER CAPITA. Just too many gun nuts running around in the US.
                              According to the CDC's 2010 National Vital Statistics Report, table 18, page 89, in 2007:

                              42,031 people died in motor vehicle related incidents
                              31,224 people died in firearm related incidents
                              17,352(55.6%) were suicide
                              12,632(40.5%) were homicide
                              613(2.0%) were unintentional
                              I don't count firearm suicides, when it comes to violence against society.

                              I'm hoping to find stats on what percentage of homicides were committed by gang members or repeat offenders (i.e. people unlikely to obey the law).

                              FYI, the CDC report uses the International Classification of Diseases system.


                              1) more regulation needed on Wall Street
                              I don't see more regulation as a magic bullet, because I don't trust our regulating bodies. I wish I had solid links to give people right now, but people should research the Federal Reserve and its monetary policies. Research "fractional reserve banking".


                              4) if you have pepper spray, why do you need a gun? because the other guy has one? Good luck at the shoot out at the OK Corral!
                              Because some people are able to fight through pepper spray; whether because they are hopped up on drugs or have been pepper sprayed so many times by police they use it as a tabasco sauce replacement.

                              Pepper spray is not a magic wand that will automatically stop an attack. Neither is a handgun (people are misled by what they see in movies and video games). I saw a news report where an average looking guy was shot 5 to 7 times by police (with some hits to the torso) with .45 caliber bullets and he was still able walk to the back of the police car without assistance.

                              Many people have the misconception that a gun, a knife, pepper spray, or even a TRO (temporary restraining order) is a magic talisman.

                              Anyways, why have pepper spray and a gun? Say I'm walking and a dog attacks me. It'd be nice to just scare it away with pepper spray, especially if it belong to a neighbor. Now suppose the dog has rabies. The disease has fried its brain and it won't react like a normal animal. In that case you may have no choice but to put it down.

                              It's all about having options, because reality doesn't go the way you've planned.


                              Unfortunarely, Court precedent IS NOT on your side. You can huff and you can puff all you like, but with your attitude, you may go to jail in those circumstances.
                              [I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice, blah blah blah]

                              I agree, especially in Hawaii where we don't have Castle Doctrine. You can NOT shoot a person for merely breaking into your house or for stealing your property.

                              None of this stupid: "I'll shot him and then drag him into the house." "I'll shoot him till he goes down and then shot him in the head so he can't testify or sue me." "He's in my house, so I can shoot him in the back."

                              Do NOT let your emotions or ego control you; you WILL ruin your life by getting thrown in jail.


                              Originally posted by acousticlady View Post
                              That is my main objective in financial security - how does protection against violence play into this?
                              I'm not 100% sure what you're asking, but I think I do.

                              I find that people focus too much on violence (and it's natural to do so), so I"m just trying to focus people's attention on more important problems such as personal finance. I believe the cause of most divorces are financial problems and emotional infidelity (with sexual infidelity a mere symptom of a deeper problem).


                              Now, from afar, these kids looked like the stereotypical gang members - about 10-15 of them. Trusting in the officer, I drove up and rolled down my window and asked how to get to the highway. They all looked at me in slight disbelief that I had the guts to ask them. They then got big smiles on their faces and one of them said "Yes Ma'am" and proceeded to try and explain how to get there.
                              Great story! I'm glad you decided to trust the officer. The way you treated those kids probably had a big impact on their lives.

                              Of course if the officer didn't tell me it was OK, I wouldn't have done that myself.
                              "By concealing your desires, you may trick people into being cruel about the wrong thing." --Steven Aylett, Fain the Sorcerer
                              "You gotta get me to the tall corn." --David Mamet, Spartan
                              "
                              Amateurs talk technology, professionals talk conditions." --(unknown)

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Firearms in the USA

                                :Originally Posted by Kaonohi
                                The police say it's not their job.


                                Originally posted by matapule View Post
                                Where do you get that? Please verify that outrageous statement!

                                Paranoia rules in some circles.
                                Police do often make some outrageous statements, because that is where I got it from, several times, from different officers.

                                In fact, usually they CANNOT protect us; they can't be everywhere all the time.

                                Police can't and don't protect us from middle of the night break-in robberies or even daytime break-ins. Most times they do little or no investigation. I know, I was there and watched.

                                They do try, they ticket speeders and overtime parkers, they investigate major robberies, some murders (to some extent, depending on who), etc. But the point is, they can't be at your door to beat back every attempt at crime. Too few police, too many doors, too many criminals.

                                Think about it. When it comes down to it, YOU are your first line of defence.
                                Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
                                ~ ~
                                Kaʻonohiʻulaʻokahōkūmiomioʻehiku
                                Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
                                Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

                                Comment

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