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  #51  
Old July 20th, 2013, 05:32 AM
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Default Re: Snowden/NSA

Jimmy Carter Defends Edward Snowden, Says NSA Spying Has Compromised Nation's Democracy

"America does not have a functioning democracy at this point in time," Carter said
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  #52  
Old July 20th, 2013, 07:01 AM
Kalalau Kalalau is offline
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Not a functioning democracy since the crooked judges on the sup ct gave the 2000 election to Bush and we all know how that turned out and continues to turn out, and they top it off with Citizens United letting the rich buy whatever results they want. Even that isn't good enough, now Republican legislatures are doing all they can to block non whites from voting. Oh, and overthrowing the Voting Rights Act, too.

Last edited by Kalalau; July 20th, 2013 at 07:49 AM.
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  #53  
Old July 20th, 2013, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Kalalau View Post
Not a functioning democracy since the crooked judges on the sup ct gave the 2000 election to Bush and we all know how that turned out and continues to turn out, and they top it off with Citizens United letting the rich buy whatever results they want. Even that isn't good enough, now Republican legislatures are doing all they can to block non whites from voting. Oh, and overthrowing the Voting Rights Act, too.
Don't forget Kelo v. City of New London.
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  #54  
Old July 25th, 2013, 05:03 PM
Ron Whitfield Ron Whitfield is offline
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Default Hanabusa sucks, badly!

HANABUSA IS A TRAITOR TO THIS COUNTRY: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3648737.html

No matter what her reasoning or excuse, this traitor (AND ALL THAT VOTED NO) should never be allowed in any politics again and if recall is an option it should be used NOW.

In case you didn't notice, our country is now a dead man walking. In my lifetime I've watched our country with real hope and chance to be the great country it professes to be go belly up with a fork sticking out of it's bloated gut. The sooner it completely burns and goes under the waves with all aboard, the better. This show is over, thank god I have no kids!
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  #55  
Old July 27th, 2013, 08:16 PM
Ron Whitfield Ron Whitfield is offline
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The Obama admin. is purging the positive term whistleblower from Snowden (which he is) and associating him as an illegal leaker (which he is not) in every way possible along with the media condemming him constantly, making it impossible for him to get a fair trial should he ever be in a courtroom for his day of absolute injustice. But it's comforting to hear DOJ head Holder assure Russia that Snowden won't be killed or tortured if he's extradited to the US for trial, he'll just be railroaded to prison forever and greatly mistreated until he soon dies of 'natural causes', an 'accident', or assault.
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  #56  
Old July 27th, 2013, 09:52 PM
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Default Re: Snowden/NSA

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But it's comforting to hear DOJ head Holder assure Russia that Snowden won't be killed or tortured if he's extradited to the US for trial, he'll just be railroaded to prison forever and greatly mistreated until he soon dies of 'natural causes', an 'accident', or assault.
Yeah, exactly. When I heard that statement this AM, I LOL'd.
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  #57  
Old July 27th, 2013, 10:24 PM
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Default Re: Snowden/NSA

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Originally Posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
The Obama admin. is purging the positive term whistleblower from Snowden (which he is) and associating him as an illegal leaker (which he is not) in every way possible along with the media condemming him constantly, making it impossible for him to get a fair trial should he ever be in a courtroom for his day of absolute injustice.
"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing." - Malcolm X

Last edited by Vanguard; July 27th, 2013 at 10:33 PM.
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  #58  
Old July 31st, 2013, 02:25 PM
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XKeyscore: NSA tool collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

XKeyscore gives 'widest-reaching' collection of online data
NSA analysts require no prior authorization for searches
Sweeps up emails, social media activity and browsing history
NSA's XKeyscore program read one of the presentations
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  #59  
Old August 2nd, 2013, 06:42 PM
Ron Whitfield Ron Whitfield is offline
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Snowden has now been granted asylum in Russia for 1 year and he can apply for citizenship after a while. Ignorant Snowden haters giggle questions of why he's there if he's such a patriot and why he just won't give himself up and face... drum roll, please... justice.
Maybe for the same reason his detractors won't do us all a big favor and put a bullet in their heads.

Some interesting bits I noticed on google today;
http://www.columbiatribune.com/opini...04b9f6eda.html

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread961968/pg3

http://www.tennessean.com/viewart/20...-chase-Snowden

From Edward Snowden's father; http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread961968/pg3

Dear Mr. President:
You are acutely aware that the history of liberty is a history of civil disobedience to unjust laws or practices. As Edmund Burke sermonized, “All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.”
Civil disobedience is not the first, but the last option. Henry David Thoreau wrote with profound restraint in Civil Disobedience: “If the injustice is part of the necessary friction of the machine of government, let it go, let it go: perchance it will wear smooth certainly the machine will wear out. If the injustice has a spring, or a pulley, or a rope, or a crank, exclusively for itself, then perhaps you may consider whether the remedy will not be worse than the evil; but if it is of such a nature that it requires you to be the agent of injustice to another, then, I say, break the law. Let your life be a counter friction to stop the machine.”
Thoreau’s moral philosophy found expression during the Nuremburg trials in which “following orders” was rejected as a defense. Indeed, military law requires disobedience to clearly illegal orders. A dark chapter in America’s World War II history would not have been written if the then United States Attorney General had resigned rather than participate in racist concentration camps imprisoning 120,000 Japanese American citizens and resident aliens.
Civil disobedience to the Fugitive Slave Act and Jim Crow laws provoked the end of slavery and the modern civil rights revolution.
We submit that Edward J. Snowden’s disclosures of dragnet surveillance of Americans under 215 of the Patriot Act, 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act Amendments, or otherwise were sanctioned by Thoreau’s time-honored moral philosophy and justifications for civil disobedience. Since 2005, Mr. Snowden had been employed by the intelligence community. He found himself complicit in secret, indiscriminate spying on millions of innocent citizens contrary to the spirit if not the letter of the First and Fourth Amendments and the transparency indispensable to self-government. Members of Congress entrusted with oversight remained silent or Delphic. Mr. Snowden confronted a choice between civic duty and passivity. He may have recalled the injunction of Martin Luther King, Jr.: “He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it.” Mr. Snowden chose duty. Your administration vindictively responded with a criminal complaint alleging violations of the Espionage Act.
From the commencement of your administration, your secrecy of the National Security Agency’s Orwellian surveillance programs had frustrated a national conversation over their legality, necessity, or morality. That secrecy (combined with congressional nonfeasance) provoked Edward’s disclosures, which sparked a national conversation which you have belatedly and cynically embraced. Legislation has been introduced in both the House of Representatives and Senate to curtail or terminate the NSA’s programs, and the American people are being educated to the public policy choices at hand. A commanding majority now voice concerns over the dragnet surveillance of Americans that Edward exposed and you concealed. It seems mystifying to us that you are prosecuting Edward for accomplishing what you have said urgently needed to be done!
The right to be left alone from government snooping–the most cherished right among civilized people—is the cornerstone of liberty. Supreme Court Justice Robert Jackson served as Chief Prosecutor at Nuremburg. He came to learn of the dynamics of the Third Reich that crushed a free society, and which have lessons for the United States today.
Writing in Brinegar v. United States, Justice Jackson elaborated:
The Fourth Amendment states: “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”
These, I protest, are not mere second-class rights but belong in the catalog of indispensable freedoms. Among deprivations of rights, none is so effective in cowing a population, crushing the spirit of the individual and putting terror in every heart. Uncontrolled search and seizure is one of the first and most effective weapons in the arsenal of every arbitrary government. And one need only briefly to have dwelt and worked among a people possessed of many admirable qualities but deprived of these rights to know that the human personality deteriorates and dignity and self-reliance disappear where homes, persons and possessions are subject at any hour to unheralded search and seizure by the police.
We thus find your administration’s zeal to punish Mr. Snowden’s discharge of civic duty to protect democratic processes and to safeguard liberty to be unconscionable and indefensible.
We are also appalled at your administration’s scorn for due process, the rule of law, fairness, and the presumption of innocence as regards Edward.
On June 27, 2013, Mr. Fein wrote a letter to the Attorney General stating that Edward’s father was substantially convinced that he would return to the United States to confront the charges that have been lodged against him if three cornerstones of due process were guaranteed. The letter was not an ultimatum, but an invitation to discuss fair trial imperatives. The Attorney General has sneered at the overture with studied silence.
We thus suspect your administration wishes to avoid a trial because of constitutional doubts about application of the Espionage Act in these circumstances, and obligations to disclose to the public potentially embarrassing classified information under the Classified Information Procedures Act.
Your decision to force down a civilian airliner carrying Bolivian President Eva Morales in hopes of kidnapping Edward also does not inspire confidence that you are committed to providing him a fair trial. Neither does your refusal to remind the American people and prominent Democrats and Republicans in the House and Senate like House Speaker John Boehner, Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi, Congresswoman Michele Bachmann,and Senator Dianne Feinstein that Edward enjoys a presumption of innocence. He should not be convicted before trial. Yet Speaker Boehner has denounced Edward as a“traitor.”
Ms. Pelosi has pontificated that Edward “did violate the law in terms of releasing those documents.” Ms. Bachmann has pronounced that, “This was not the act of a patriot; this was an act of a traitor.” And Ms. Feinstein has decreed that Edward was guilty of “treason,” which is defined in Article III of the Constitution as “levying war” against the United States, “or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort.”
You have let those quadruple affronts to due process pass unrebuked, while you have disparaged Edward as a “hacker” to cast aspersion on his motivations and talents. Have you forgotten the Supreme Court’s gospel in Berger v. United States that the interests of the government “in a criminal prosecution is not that it shall win a case, but that justice shall be done?”
We also find reprehensible your administration’s Espionage Act prosecution of Edward for disclosures indistinguishable from those which routinely find their way into the public domain via your high level appointees for partisan political advantage. Classified details of your predator drone protocols, for instance, were shared with the New York Times with impunity to bolster your national security credentials. Justice Jackson observed in Railway Express Agency, Inc. v. New York: “The framers of the Constitution knew, and we should not forget today, that there is no more effective practical guaranty against arbitrary and unreasonable government than to require that the principles of law which officials would impose upon a minority must be imposed generally.”
In light of the circumstances amplified above, we urge you to order the Attorney General to move to dismiss the outstanding criminal complaint against Edward, and to support legislation to remedy the NSA surveillance abuses he revealed. Such presidential directives would mark your finest constitutional and moral hour.
Sincerely,
Bruce Fein
Counsel for Lon Snowden
Lon Snowden

Bruce Fein & Associates, Inc.
722 12th Street, N.W., 4th Floor
Washington, D.C. 20005
Phone: 703-963-4968
bruce@thelichfieldgroup.com
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  #60  
Old August 11th, 2013, 10:35 AM
Kalalau Kalalau is offline
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I wonder how the Soviet Union's...oops, Russia's adoption of anti gay laws and roughing up gays in public is going down with the idealistic Mr. Snowden. The US is not ideal, it is not in an ideal place, but at least it is moving in the right direction, away from the violence and authoritarianism of the Dark Ages, as the rest of western society is, while Russia embraces it, and always has, except for a few brief years after Communism took hold and it actually put Marxist ideals of sexual freedom into practice. It was Stalin, with his peasant background, who brought the dictatorship of the proletariat against free sexual expression. Not saying that Mr. Snowden is gay, it wouldn't make any difference if he were, or were not, but as a committed idealist brutalizing harmless minorities really ought to make him think some.
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  #61  
Old August 11th, 2013, 03:31 PM
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Default Re: Snowden/NSA

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... but as a committed idealist brutalizing harmless minorities really ought to make him think some.
This makes no sense. Since he is an idealist, Snowden should go to jail in the US in order to prevent Russia's persecution of minorities?? You must think idealists are really dumb.
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  #62  
Old August 11th, 2013, 05:07 PM
Ron Whitfield Ron Whitfield is offline
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The US is not ideal, but at least it is moving in the right direction, away from the violence and authoritarianism of the Dark Ages.
It may still be moving but it's just death throes, the rattle as the promise succumbs.
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  #63  
Old August 11th, 2013, 06:17 PM
Kalalau Kalalau is offline
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The US in its death throes? Sadly, that may be true. The economic damage done by Bush & Reagan, the destruction of the middle class, astronomical student loan debts needlessly crushing future generations, all of it, could bring the US down. The sequester. Jeeze. But socially the US & the rest of the western world are moving away from the superstitiously based brutality of the Dark Ages and Russia isn't.

Amazingly enough we are coming up on the 50th anniversary of the assassination of JFK. Lee Harvey Oswald rejected America, moved to Russia, fell out of love with it, and returned. The world might have been a better place if he had stayed there. The point is, for certain reasons that might have come from unrealistic idealism Snowden broke the law and now resides in Russia. If his idealism has a hint of reality, the reality of gays being deliberately brutalized with the blessing of the Russian gvt should offend or alarm him. Its symptomatic. There is probably a lot that goes on in Russia that would alarm or offend an idealist. Will he come "home"? I wouldn't. But then, I wouldn't have taken a job doing things I didn't believe in doing. If he didn't believe in doing his job he should have quit. People do that all the time. "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime"

It is weird for me to be defending the gvt regarding spying because I don't like spying and I think the gvt usually takes things too far. Remember when drug testing started? It was so reasonable, test airline pilots. I mean, who wouldn't feel safer knowing his pilot hadn't just mainlined some smack or tooted some flake. But before you knew it there was a huge industry testing people and procedures for getting around the tests had been perfected and its mostly a waste of time and everybody knows it. So it is with spying. If it actually prevents Al Qaeda from setting off H bombs across the country, who can really complain about that. If its as limited as the gvt says it is, I can't really object. But knowing how things work I wouldn't be surprised if the gvt comes to use spying to clear all kinds of crimes.

Last edited by Kalalau; August 11th, 2013 at 07:16 PM.
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  #64  
Old August 11th, 2013, 07:49 PM
Ron Whitfield Ron Whitfield is offline
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At this stage it's how do you want Uncle Sam to go out, kicking and screaming in horrific civil bonfires across the country making Mad Max seems idyllic, or worse?

Assange has it right, as usual... http://news.yahoo.com/assange-calls-...225130357.html

Last edited by Ron Whitfield; August 11th, 2013 at 07:52 PM.
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  #65  
Old August 11th, 2013, 08:53 PM
Kalalau Kalalau is offline
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To me, presumption of innocence means presumption of innocence. If you are presumed innocent the gvt has no right to launch an investigation against you. If there is some evidence you might be doing something wrong they can take it to a judge and get a warrant to investigate you but other than that, I think they should be prohibited from investigating you at all. So to me, blanket phone or computer spying seems on the face of it unwarranted and unwarrantable and unconstitutional. Courts don't agree. Maybe Alberto Gonzalez was actually right when he called the Bill of Rights "quaint". A pleasant memory from a simpler era. Its a world of difference across the border in Mexico where law is not based on English common law like here, I think its based on Napoleonic code and the state has much more power. So its definitely not in character for me to buy the gvt case for blanket spying to prevent terrorism, knowing as I do that it will of course be extended for drugs, porn, tax crimes, etc.
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  #66  
Old August 12th, 2013, 04:43 PM
Ron Whitfield Ron Whitfield is offline
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That's all mute since Bush made it legal to have any US citizen disappeared/jailed/killed with no questions asked or answered.
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  #67  
Old August 13th, 2013, 07:56 AM
Kalalau Kalalau is offline
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Another presumption of innocence issue for me is drunk driving check points. Of course if a person is demonstrating impaired driving that is reasonable cause to stop them and check them. But to just blanket check everybody? The theory they sell it on is, driving is not a right, its only a privilege. Oh. Where in the Constitution or in English common law does it say the presumption of innocence only applies if you are not driving. But people don't care. Its sold on safety and people eat it up. We have internal border checkpoints just like they had in East Germany here, on all the highways out of SD County. No probable cause. Everybody just stops, the internal border guards come and briefly check you or have a drug dog sniff your car if they have reports on you. Its an inconvenience any time you drive north or east. Theoretically, its to catch those brown people everybody hates so much. So everybody gives up the presumption of innocence and they are perfectly happy with it as long as it keeps those awful brown people out of the country as it has so successfully these many years.
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  #68  
Old September 12th, 2013, 03:21 PM
Ron Whitfield Ron Whitfield is offline
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To me, the war against Manning/a free press/Edward Snowden and his endless escapades of pissing off his detractors has been the story of the year. News room water-cooler guesstimates of how much more devestating info does he have and how does he know just when to drop these real bombshells are heating up, yet the networks won't talk about it on air. The Obama admin. is dancing on eggshells fearing every war room thot could haunt them and how their campaign against Snowden/whistleblowers isn't going as hoped.
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  #69  
Old September 19th, 2013, 03:44 PM
Ron Whitfield Ron Whitfield is offline
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http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...9850RU20130906

On another note, it make's one wonder how much $$$ has been stolen/made by Gmt. personel via insider trading info gleaned from reading everybody's emails...
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  #70  
Old September 19th, 2013, 04:44 PM
Ron Whitfield Ron Whitfield is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...9850RU20130906

On another note, it make's one wonder how much $$$ has been stolen/made by Gmt. personel via insider trading info gleaned from reading everybody's emails...
BTW, pretty funny that these SO VERY BAD citizens are being lauded as they should be, with Manning having over 100,000 signatures worldwide sent to the Noble Peace Prize committee for his nomination, and Snowden's nominated for human rights distinction in Europe to sit along side the likes of Mandela, Mother Theresa, and San Suu Kyi.
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  #71  
Old September 28th, 2013, 03:00 PM
Ron Whitfield Ron Whitfield is offline
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Whooops!
The human factor raises it ugly head again as petty and unprofessional NSA employees used surveilience to spy on family and friends. Awesome!
http://news.yahoo.com/u-internal-wat...140630189.html

But true American's like Snowden are the bad guys?
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  #72  
Old September 30th, 2013, 03:49 PM
Ron Whitfield Ron Whitfield is offline
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I wonder if the DoJ will persecute journalists in general like they have Snowden & Co.?
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/30/us...anted=all&_r=0
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  #73  
Old October 26th, 2013, 02:49 AM
Walkoff Balk Walkoff Balk is offline
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http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/moz...ry?id=20684699

I always feel like somebody's watching me.
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  #74  
Old October 26th, 2013, 02:44 PM
Ron Whitfield Ron Whitfield is offline
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I just love how the steady drip keeps rightfully informing the US public and exposing the Gmt. perps, it must have them all freaking out!
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  #75  
Old October 29th, 2013, 02:21 AM
Walkoff Balk Walkoff Balk is offline
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I spy with my little eye.....
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