How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

[scrivener]

Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

This might not be relevant, but many years ago there was debate in California about broadcasting executions live on television. Interestingly, there were pro- and anti-death-penalty people on the "yes, let's broadcast them" side. People in favor of the death penalty thought witnessing executions would further deter criminals from committing capital offenses. People opposed to the death penalty thought that witnessing what happens in an execution would convince people that this was not right.

I read a book in the early nineties in which state executioner(s) said that years on the job had turned them against the death penalty. They kept doing their jobs the best they could but didn't agree with the penalty itself. I might be misremembering this part; I've been meaning to get 'hold of this book again so I can re-read it.

[anapuni808]

Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

http://http://news.blogs.cnn.com/201...r-case/?hpt=T2

any comments?

[Leo Lakio]

Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

http://http://news.blogs.cnn.com/201...r-case/?hpt=T2

any comments?

Yeah - I fixed the link:
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/10/05...r-case/?hpt=T2

[TuNnL]

Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

since criminals are protected from the 8th Amendment (sorry victims, you're already screwed), they are entitled to something more humane, like receiving a few shots to put them to sleep before some other chemical puts them to sleep.

Is this how they do it now? I must admit I have not studied the composition of the drugs being administered in death penalty cases. Wasn't this the very issue that held up the long-delayed executions in California that can now finally be carried out?

[tutusue]

Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

Ya know? You can be very Christian and forgive, but have the felon still pay for his crime. You don't have to relieve the criminal of his punishment to forgive, whether it be incarceration or execution.

Agreed!

"Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die." - Malachy McCourt

As I understand and practice forgiveness, it's not about condoning the "crime" and "forgiving" the perpetrator. Rather, it's about accepting that it's happened and changing one's reaction to it so that one doesn't continue to live with resentment, bitterness and anger.

Victims and/or their families have different ways of putting this theory into practice. The husband of a friend of mine was killed while jogging by a drugged, teen driver. What eventually allowed my friend to move thru her resentment and grief was to speak to teens on the dangers of drugs and alcohol. Moving thru that resentment and grief is a form of forgiveness.

Others have asked for the release of the perpetrator, formed a friendship and gone on to speak to relevant groups about their experiences, together.

Different strokes for different folks but, to me, forgiveness is all about moving thru the negative experience, releasing the resentment and, sorry for this trite analogy but...making lemonade out of lemons. When my marriage ended I wrote an affirmation, photocopied it and taped it up all over the house and my car: "Living well is the best revenge" It didn't take long for me to stop wishing the death penalty for my ex!

[anapuni808]

Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

hey thanks Leo - usually I check before publishing a link. I was in a hurry

[Nobunaga]

Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

This might not be relevant, but many years ago there was debate in California about broadcasting executions live on television. Interestingly, there were pro- and anti-death-penalty people on the "yes, let's broadcast them" side. People in favor of the death penalty thought witnessing executions would further deter criminals from committing capital offenses. People opposed to the death penalty thought that witnessing what happens in an execution would convince people that this was not right.

I read a book in the early nineties in which state executioner(s) said that years on the job had turned them against the death penalty. They kept doing their jobs the best they could but didn't agree with the penalty itself. I might be misremembering this part; I've been meaning to get 'hold of this book again so I can re-read it.

Only a sick person would enjoy an execution, as each execution represents a failure on the part of our society, to prevent the crime that netted that execution. Still, what we should always consider, is the safety for our law abiding society.

And yes, it is true, that if you witness an execution, you might turn anti capital punishment. The reason is the guest of honor in any execution looks helpless and harmless, and there are people that love him/her such as family.

What people tend to forget, is the victim. Whenever we have an execution, we should always think about the victim or victims of the crime. This would include the victim's survivors.

[Nobunaga]

Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

http://http://news.blogs.cnn.com/201...r-case/?hpt=T2

any comments?

Yes. It was well done. Of course, that is something that I see very often when I research a case, and I will research this one.

While you are at it, these are some other cases that were well done that I researched.
1. Mumia. (Still alive) http://www.freemumia.org/
2. Gary Graham. http://www.ccadp.org/shakasankofa.htm

After researching these two cases, I realized how the anti-DP faction can "create" a reasonable doubt. BOTH of these cases, when researched showed me that a convincing writeup can be made on people who are blatantly guilty.

In the Gary Graham case, I actually communicated with his victim's nephew. What all the reports fail to show which happened during the trial, was on Graham at the time of his arrest, was the exact change to the penny, or a $100 dollar bill that Bobby Lambert used at the Safeway where he made a purchase, and was murdered.

What we all must remember, is the fact that all of the executed was given a trial by a jury of 12 common people, who unanimously agreed that he was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. After an execution, you will always have people dreaming up "reasonable doubts."

Many of these murderers are psychopaths or sociopaths, (same thing) which makes them accomplished liars. Remember that I posted about Roger Keith Coleman? He was obviously a psychopath. This site will give you an idea of the characteristics of a psychopath....
<http://www.minddisorders.com/Flu-Inv/Hare-Psychopathy-Checklist.html>

My bet is that Cameron Todd Willingham was also a psychopath.
Nobu

[Nobunaga]

Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

Agreed!

"Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die." - Malachy McCourt

As I understand and practice forgiveness, it's not about condoning the "crime" and "forgiving" the perpetrator. Rather, it's about accepting that it's happened and changing one's reaction to it so that one doesn't continue to live with resentment, bitterness and anger.

Victims and/or their families have different ways of putting this theory into practice. The husband of a friend of mine was killed while jogging by a drugged, teen driver. What eventually allowed my friend to move thru her resentment and grief was to speak to teens on the dangers of drugs and alcohol. Moving thru that resentment and grief is a form of forgiveness.

Others have asked for the release of the perpetrator, formed a friendship and gone on to speak to relevant groups about their experiences, together.

Different strokes for different folks but, to me, forgiveness is all about moving thru the negative experience, releasing the resentment and, sorry for this trite analogy but...making lemonade out of lemons. When my marriage ended I wrote an affirmation, photocopied it and taped it up all over the house and my car: "Living well is the best revenge" It didn't take long for me to stop wishing the death penalty for my ex!

Thanks Tutu,
I have a sociopath in my family, who fits at least 75% of this checklist of 20 possible symptoms.
http://www.minddisorders.com/Flu-Inv...Checklist.html

I have forgiven this person for the damages that was done to me because of her lies, but I now have nothing to do with the person at all, and I have not spoken to her in over 8 years now.

The best way to deal with a vicious psychopath, is to keep away from him/her. There is no sense in trying to straighten things out, or to try to bring out the truth, because they are accomplished liars, and have this superficial charm. If you wait long enough, the truth will prevail, and what goes around will come around like the old cliche says. In my case, my family was divided because of the lies. I told those who believed the psychopath, I cannot control what they believe, so if they hate me because of the lies, I am not going to do anything about it, and the truth will eventually prevail. Over the last 8 years, the truth came out in some cases, but not all, and I don't care anymore.
Nobu

[tutusue]

Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

Nobu, you and I must be related!!! The main thing I learned from my decades long exposure to a sociopathic family member is that...KARMA ROCKS! Karma handled the situation in ways I could never have thought of. And, I didn't have to do a thing except remove myself from the situation, feel compassion for such a tormented soul and move on with my life. That kind of forgiveness is never easy but it sure beats the alternative.

And, no...I'm not referring to my ex!

[matapule]

Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

As I understand and practice forgiveness, it's not about condoning the "crime" and "forgiving" the perpetrator. Rather, it's about accepting that it's happened and changing one's reaction to it so that one doesn't continue to live with resentment, bitterness and anger.

...............to me, forgiveness is all about moving thru the negative experience, releasing the resentment

This is the psychologically healthy thing to do. You have done well. Blessed be.

Only a sick person would enjoy an execution, .

Then there are a lot of very sick people in the American society because I include hunting for "sport" in the category of "enjoying an execution." I was at a relation's house several years ago. His house is decorated with the heads of wild boar he has killed over the years for sport. Everyone was sitting around watching a TV program. My relative get up in the middle of the program and said to his two pre-teen children (boy and girl), "I'm bored. Let's go out and shoot some squirrels." They each got their rifles and went out and started shooting squirrels for fun.

I have no problem with killing an animal for food. But in my opinion, if you kill an animal, you better darn well be ready to eat it.

these are some other cases that were well done that I researched..........After researching these two cases,.........I actually communicated with his victim's nephew.

On what basis are you researching crimes and communicating with victims?

[Nobunaga]

Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

Nobu, you and I must be related!!! The main thing I learned from my decades long exposure to a sociopathic family member is that...KARMA ROCKS! Karma handled the situation in ways I could never have thought of. And, I didn't have to do a thing except remove myself from the situation, feel compassion for such a tormented soul and move on with my life. That kind of forgiveness is never easy but it sure beats the alternative.

And, no...I'm not referring to my ex!

Hi Tutu,
Psychopaths/sociopaths are more common than we think. I would guess among the people we see, at least one in fifteen fit the description. According to Dr, Hare's checklist, we all have one or two of the symptoms, but not more. A sociopath has between 10 and 15 of those symptoms. I have two of them in my family. The one that I keep away from is quite dangerous, and unfortunately, she is intelligent enough to be law abiding, or perhaps intelligent enough not to get caught as far as the law.

As far as being related, it is possible. My dad came from a family of 8 children, and he was disowned. I don't even know half of the family with my surname, and I only know the other surnames of my aunts because my dad told me when I was dating, to not date any girls with those surnames.

I married a girl from Waianae, and I lived in Makaha for 4 years before moving to Kauai.
Nobu

[Nobunaga]

Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

Matapule> I have no problem with killing an animal for food. But in my opinion, if you kill an animal, you better darn well be ready to eat it.

Nobu> Although I did hunt before, I don't like hunting anymore because of the amount of work it takes. I did shoot a deer on Molokai, and a sheep on the Big Island, and of course many birds in California, but many years ago. I guess we all change with age, but besides the work it takes to hunt, I feel terrible about destroying a beautiful animal.

I think you might be stretching things a bit too far though. I still kill rats and mice when I can. I live next to a field, and they come into my garage, and get caught in my traps. I think they are attracted to the dog foods I have. AND, I am not about to eat a mouse or a rat.

Matapule> On what basis are you researching crimes and communicating with victims?

Nobu> No basis at all. I did participate in a death penalty discussion as an anti-DP person some years ago, because I had a former personal friend who was on Death Row in the South. (He died in prison from a heart failure)

During the discussions, I communicated with the nephew of Bobby Lambert, (The victim of Gary Graham). Tom Lawrence, the nephew of the victims of Daryll Mease (who was on Death Row, but his sentence commuted to a life sentence by the governor of MO at the request of the late Pope John Paul.) Shirly Dicks, who was the mother of Jeffrey Dicks who was on Death Row in TN, but died of a heart attack. And a few others, murder victim survivors, and relatives of DR inmates. The names I mentioned are those I can recall offhand, but I did communicate with more than double that.

I switched sides to pro DP after doing the research I did, on the claimed innocents, and then I went further and researched the costs of capital punishment. I too, at one time believed that capital punishment cost more than LWOP, and that capital punishment did not deter. I am convinced now, that I was wrong.

While Capital punishment is not a happy subject, I think that the truth about it should be known. There is a snow job done by both sides of the issue, but a lot more coming from the anti DP side.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

There is a snow job done by both sides of the issue, but a lot more coming from the anti DP side.

Measured by what means, besides your own anecdotal evidence?

[Nobunaga]

Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

Measured by what means, besides your own anecdotal evidence?

Hi Leo,
First of all, I want to ensure you, and everyone else on this board, that I am not pointing toward any individual or individuals on this board with my statements. When it comes to capital punishment, the claims are general, coming from either side.

Among the bogus claims made by the anti-DP side are:
1. People have been executed and later on proven to be innocent.
2. Capital punishment costs more than Life WithOut the possibility of Parole.
3. Over 100 people on death row have been exonerated because of proven innocence. (Over 100 people on death row have been released for several reasons. ONE of them is proven innocence, but very few. Most are released because of the fact that a new trial is granted to the inmate, and for reasons by the prosecution, they vacate the case.
4. Executions do not provide closure for the murder victim survivors. (It does sometimes, and it doesn't sometimes)
5. Capital punishment does not deter. (It definitely deters. A closer to accurate statement is that capital punishment does not deter more than a long prison sentence.)
6. States that have capital punishment have a higher homicide rate than states that do not. (while this is true, as I pointed out in this thread, the homicide rates in the non-capital punishment states were always lower than the capital punishment states even before they abolished capital punishment.

Being that you are anti DP, I would think you know the bogus claims coming from the pro side. However, if you don't, I will provide the claims that I know of upon your request.
Nobu