Haiti earthquake disaster

[tutusue]

Re: Haiti earthquake disaster

Salmoned, you have every right to not donate to something you don't believe in. But the disgust you express for fellow human beings, the majority who have not had the privileges in life that you have, is beyond disturbing. While you haven't always been found beneath my contempt, you certainly are now. And, yes, I know you don't give a rip.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Haiti earthquake disaster

Both these stories are terribly sad:

As Wallets Open For Haiti, Credit Card Companies Take A Big Cut

Not to mention the controversy surrounding the mismanagement of Jean Wyclef's charitable(?) foundation, Yele Haiti.

The waste, inefficiency and lack of qualified oversight over the funds collected and spent by the rapper's charity is truly shameful. Even if it is true that Wyclef never embezzled any funds to benefit himself, the inability to effectively adminster a multi-million dollar charitable organization during a time of critical need can definitely be filed under "good intentions gone wrong."

[matapule]

Re: Haiti earthquake disaster

My donation is going to an organization called "Doctors Without Borders"

Both these stories are terribly sad:As Wallets Open For Haiti, Credit Card Companies Take A Big Cut

Not to mention the controversy surrounding the mismanagement of Jean Wyclef's charitable(?) foundation, Yele Haiti.

There are many good organizations with little or no administrative cost. I found a website once of the major charities in the world and what percentage of their costs went to administration and advertising. Can't find it right now.

But I'm going with Ana on this one, Doctors without Borders is one of the good ones.

[matapule]

Re: Haiti earthquake disaster

I found a website once of the major charities in the world and what percentage of their costs went to administration and advertising.

This isn't the site I was thinking of, but it will work for Haiti. Both Doctors Without Borders and UNICEF (my chosen organization) are 4 star.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Haiti earthquake disaster

Okay, so the Dominicans, who know the Haitians best, are evil and don't want to help. I don't buy it, but you can hold that opinion, Craig. We, on the other hand, who haven't been doing much for the Haitians all along, are good because we now respond in this crisis by sending our troops, taking control of their airport and delaying aid flights in favor of more US military flights. We keep aid in the airport compound rather than air lift it to those in need, but we're doing all we can to help. Yeah, I get it.

There's a lot of suffering in the world, most of it not in Haiti - are you doing all you can to relieve it? [That's a rhetorical question] I can only ask, 'Why Haiti and why now?" Aren't you just following the latest media blitz, helping these poor bastards (the media) prove how powerful they are, how much money they can focus on a problem, if only to cover up the few real problems we should be addressing? Wouldn't it be a bore if the media focused on a single issue or two for years, or however long it took, until the issue was resolved? Oh look, earthquake in Haiti, send cash now, move on to next minor sensation. Repeat until dead.

It's not hearing loss, Leo, it's the death knell of all those species (and the constant wailing of ever more human babies being born) that's drowning out the feeble wailing of those suffering Haitians. If you could at least read and quote the whole sentence, you may discover the concept it conveys. It takes 44 days for world population to increase enough to replace Haiti's entire population (about 9 million) - that's a lot of wailing.

Would it surprise you if I told you that the Lions Club International has been helping Haiti continuosly for years? That the International Red Cross has been helping Haiti for years? That many international service groups have been a part of Haiti's humanitarian needs for years? It's not just what we do when crisis hits, it's what service groups worldwide do on a daily basis. But when crisis hits, the need for help can be overwhelming and more than what service groups can handle and that's when the word goes out to the rest of the world for help as we see now.

Do we (the Lions Clubs) ignore domestic tragedy? Of course not, we spread ourselves thin with 1.4 million members in over 64 countries (including Haiti) to provide whatever we can to aid those in need domestically to internationally. Funds from all these clubs channel thru Lions Club International Fund (LCIF) to provide assistance anywhere on earth. Monies from Chinese Lions clubs, India, Russia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, even Haiti find their way to domestic problems such as Katrina here in the US even locally to Iniki.

This is the bigger picture all international service organizations do on a global scale for all nations. We are autonomous to the red tape of governments.

When you read about the need to help in the papers its because of the overwhelming need beyond the service infrastructure that is already in place.

[salmoned]

Re: Haiti earthquake disaster

It seems I am being misunderstood here. I am not showing disgust for my fellow humans (Tutusue), I am merely expressing the opinion that if we provide aid now, we will forever bear responsibility for all the pain and suffering resulting from that aid. If we increase Haiti's food supply, we will be effectively increasing Haiti's population and their population problem will be our fault to the degree in which we abet it.

I am alive and taking care of myself as best I can. When I suffer, I take care of it myself [within the social structure of which I am a part]. Also, I help others in my social structure as well as I can. I don't interfere with social structures of which I am not a part out of respect for the right of others to live in a social structure of their own choosing. If I cause pain or suffering in another social structure, I will work to remedy the damage. I am not a god and I don't have a right or responsibility to help every other human on the face of the earth. As well, I know there are many more millions suffering worse than the Haitians are now and I am not helping them either. Not because I can't, because I choose to allow them to suffer in dignity as their right as human beings.

It so happens I believe the most necessary help I can provide to humanity is to work toward the reduction of the world's human population and the preservation of the diversity of species. I believe these efforts will best lead to the continuation of our species for the greatest duration possible, my ultimate goal for our species. All my charitable giving goes toward those causes (with nothing left over for disaster relief).

Craig, no it wouldn't surprise me that others choose to work for the maximization of human protoplasm on earth. That goes to my moniker - I know I'm swimming upstream against the flow of a river much larger than myself, yet I must try to reach the headwaters to plant a seed of reason and restraint.

Craig, is there less suffering now as a result of decades of aid or more? Is the need for aid less now or greater? Will we ever see the need for aid abated through the efforts of aid workers? I suggest there is more suffering now, more need for aid now, and we will never see the overall need for aid abated via the efforts of aid workers. That effort is simply stoking the fire, not quenching it.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Haiti earthquake disaster

One day disaster will happen to you, shall we exercise that same thought? Or do we help you?

No matter what you feel about yourself and the way you treat others, there are those that will (despite your refusal), will risk their lives and comfort to aid and assist you.

You can't change the way humanitarians think or feel, and we can't change the way you feel, however we will still save your life because as that old cliche goes, "the life you save may be your own". And that's money in the bank.

[salmoned]

Re: Haiti earthquake disaster

You're not the humanitarian you believe yourself to be, but I doubt you will ever realize that fact.

I might hope, were I in need, for my social structure to provide assistance. I would not expect or hope for assistance from any other social structure unless that structure was the cause of my need.

[You're absolutely wrong, disaster will never happen to me. I may face adversity, but I'll deal with it my way, not yours.]

[matapule]

Re: Haiti earthquake disaster

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Haiti earthquake disaster

"Hope For Haiti" musical telethon on TV tonight - on multiple channels (salmoned, better listen to music and drink old wine tonight; keep your TV off).

Quincy Jones has plans for Haiti-relief anniversary update of "We Are The World" to be recorded Feb. 1, the morning after the Grammy Awards.

[salmoned]

Re: Haiti earthquake disaster

No worries, it's not on PBS - thanks for the shout out.

[Kaonohi]

Re: Haiti earthquake disaster

Almost everyone is going to misunderstand you on this one, sal-mon-ed, whomever. Me to a lesser degree, I hope.

It seems I am being misunderstood here. I am not showing disgust for my fellow humans (Tutusue), I am merely expressing the opinion that if we provide aid now, we will forever bear responsibility for all the pain and suffering resulting from that aid. If we increase Haiti's food supply, we will be effectively increasing Haiti's population and their population problem will be our fault to the degree in which we abet it.

Yeah. Poorer populations increase partly because that is part of their survival strategy.
Advanced populations overpopulate because it's "us against them."
Everybody wants kids as a survival and conquest strategy.
Little do they know it is a genocide strategy - these mouths must be fed.
Nature steps in and reduced populations. Sometimes seemingly at random, sometimes the reason is obvious (overcrowding = disease).

It's natural. Natural is good, even if it hurts.

It so happens I believe the most necessary help I can provide to humanity is to work toward the reduction of the world's human population and the preservation of the diversity of species. I believe these efforts will best lead to the continuation of our species for the greatest duration possible, my ultimate goal for our species. All my charitable giving goes toward those causes (with nothing left over for disaster relief).

Earth can only support so much, so many. Already we take more space than is fair.

My strategy is different than yours. It may be that someone I save through disaster relief - because they know the pain of overpopulation - may be the ONE who helps us balance our population on Earth.

There will be always innumerable disasters, and dead victims. The survivors should be helped, because they may turn around and help humanity - out of their experience. Bury the dead, help the living. Reduce overpopulation, for surely it will otherwise kill us.

is there less suffering now as a result of decades of aid or more? Is the need for aid less now or greater? Will we ever see the need for aid abated through the efforts of aid workers? I suggest there is more suffering now, more need for aid now, and we will never see the overall need for aid abated via the efforts of aid workers. That effort is simply stoking the fire, not quenching it.

There will always be suffering, and I don't think it has any relation to aid at all. I hope, too, that in spite of our troubles we retain,and not discard our humanity - that we help those who are in need is what makes us human. Lesser animals (except dolphins & whales) turn their back on their suffering members. We should be better than that.

[matapule]

Re: Haiti earthquake disaster

Everybody wants kids as a survival and conquest strategy.

Actually that is not the case. Read the book The Empty Cradle for an eye opening account of how the world is currently being threatened by underpopulation.

Lesser animals (except dolphins & whales) turn their back on their suffering members.

K, I don't think that conclusion is based on science. A number of lesser animals aid the sick and dying. Elephants come to mind right off the bat.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Haiti earthquake disaster

Actually that is not the case. Read the book The Empty Cradle for an eye opening account of how the world is currently being threatened by underpopulation.

With six boys I'm countering that theory. I look at it this way, my six kids will help support me thru Social Security deductions. It may be the biggest ponzy scheme but the last one won't care anyway since it won't matter at that point.

[matapule]

Re: Haiti earthquake disaster

With six boys I'm countering that theory. I look at it this way, my six kids will help support me thru Social Security deductions. It may be the biggest ponzy scheme but the last one won't care anyway since it won't matter at that point.

Six boys? Some people are gluttons for punishment. The only thing worse would be six daughters!

But you get the point. Those six boys will support you in your old age through SS contributions, but who is going to support them when they retire? My two children, daughters, have elected not to have children. Who is goinng to support them?

It's a conundrum, but we're way off topic here, and I apologize for it.