Astounding crash in Kaneohe

[68-eldo]

Re: Astounding crash in Kaneohe

Hypothetically speaking, would it be better to slightly turn with the bump, until I have the car under control; or do I keep the wheels straight? I'm pretty sure jerking the wheel in the opposite direction is bad.

First never ever jerk the steering wheel when trying to avoid another car. That will get you into trouble very easily. A good example is the incident I saw on the H1. A car changed lanes and the driver of a VW in the lane but a little behind the one changing lanes over reacted and jerked the wheel. The VW swapped ends about 5 or 6 times in the middle of the H1 missing the left guard rail by a couple of feet then slid to the right finally stopping in the right lane facing the wrong way. Fortunately everyone else on the road was able to avoid the spinning VW and it lost no paint. The seats probably needed a good cleaning though.

When avoiding a road hazard or other car only turn the steering wheel as much as you need to and no more and no faster than you need to. In avoiding a collision an inch is as good as a mile.

In the incident MyopicJoe posted about turning away from the car changing lanes would lessen damage to the two vehicles if not avoid the accident altogether. However if there is a car in the lane next to you, you could involve the other car. If I was in that situation I would move as much as I could to avoid an accident but I would not hit an innocent car. If there is a collision I would do my best to tag the one that caused it all.

Hmm, that makes sense. Kinda like a PIT maneuver?

Exactly

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Astounding crash in Kaneohe

From what I've heard, there is no longer a place to legally (safely) race cars in Hawaii. Yet our popular culture (movies, TV) glorify speed, equate it with 'manliness' and such, and even our local culture younger drivers sometimes equate being passed as 'being weak,' which leads to road-rage issues.

I just had to comment on this.

First of all, even when we had the raceway park at Campbell, there were still a lot of street racing going on. And if another race course opens up later, guess what? You'll still have street racing, as there's always going to be drivers who don't want to pay entrance fees and/or find 1/4 mile drag strip racing to be boring.

If you really want to cut down on street racing, the key is to institute tougher laws. If a driver gets caught going 80+ mph, then there should be a mandatory license revocation for one year. On a second offense, make it 3 years. And on a third offense, lifetime revocation.

If any driver is caught racing on the streets under any circumstances, automatic forfeiture of the vehicle so that it can be crushed.

When drivers know that tough laws are going to be enforced, that will get them to think twice before they are tempted to race and drive at insane speeds.

[surlygirly]

Re: Astounding crash in Kaneohe

Personally, I've never understood why cars are manufactured to go up to 150mph, when the highest speed limit in the US (barring the autobahn thing in Montana or wherever) is 75. Maybe if they quit making cars that went stupid-ridiculous speeds, people would literally be forced to slow down.

It honestly makes NO sense. I'm sure someone on here can give me an explanation of why cars are made to go so fast when our speed limits are so slow. Even US-manufactured cars that are mostly likely not going to find their way to Europe.

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Astounding crash in Kaneohe

[QUOTE=oceanpacific;227472]

The judge I paraphrased about the 10mph "rule" may have been applying that only to VAN-CAM cases brought before him, but not to cases in which the drivers were "clocked" by HPD officers.

The question then becomes do the police bother to tag anyone doing less than 10MPH over? IIRC, they don't. The precedence was set long before the van cams.

However if there is a car in the lane next to you, you could involve the other car.

What's more, if you successfully avoid the first car, but in changing lanes you crash into someone else, guess who's at fault - you. But if the first guy crashes into you, his insurance pays for your damage.

If a driver gets caught going 80+ mph, then there should be a mandatory license revocation for one year.

OK, so their license is revoked. Then what? Will that really stop them? Look at how many drive without insurance.

I'm not against what you're proposing, but it's incomplete. I just moves the problem.

It honestly makes NO sense. I'm sure someone on here can give me an explanation of why cars are made to go so fast when our speed limits are so slow.

1) It's not illegal
2) They sell

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Astounding crash in Kaneohe

OK, so their license is revoked. Then what? Will that really stop them? Look at how many drive without insurance.

I'm not against what you're proposing, but it's incomplete. I just moves the problem.

Yes, people do drive without insurance. But if they get caught, what happens to them, Gecko?

That's right!!! They get fined.

Now, if you get caught driving without a valid license, what can happen to you, Gecko?

That's right!!! You can get fined. And on repeat offenses, even heftier fines and a "timeshare unit" with Bubba is in the offing for ya.

Now, is that complete enough for you?

[surlygirly]

Re: Astounding crash in Kaneohe

1) It's not illegal
2) They sell

But considering all the speeding fatalities, WHY has this issue not even been addressed?

[zff]

Re: Astounding crash in Kaneohe

From what I've heard, there is no longer a place to legally (safely) race cars in Hawaii.

Not exactly. There's no longer a place to legally race cars on Oahu. The neighbor islands still have race tracks.

First of all, even when we had the raceway park at Campbell, there were still a lot of street racing going on. And if another race course opens up later, guess what? You'll still have street racing, as there's always going to be drivers who don't want to pay entrance fees and/or find 1/4 mile drag strip racing to be boring.

When Hawaii Raceway Park was open, there was a lot more going on there than just boring 1/4-mile drag strip racing. Drag racing was easily the most popular, but there was dirt oval track racing and all kinds of road racing (drifting, open-wheel racing cars, road cars, etc.)

I agree with what you're saying, however, that having a track doesn't mean people will stop street racing. It probably wouldn't have stopped this accident (Audi/Wilson Tunnel) from happening. I'm sure, however, that the absence of a race track has caused a substantial number of car enthusiasts to break the laws far more often.

[Composite 2992]

Re: Astounding crash in Kaneohe

If you really want to cut down on street racing, the key is to institute tougher laws. If a driver gets caught going 80+ mph, then there should be a mandatory license revocation for one year. On a second offense, make it 3 years. And on a third offense, lifetime revocation.

If any driver is caught racing on the streets under any circumstances, automatic forfeiture of the vehicle so that it can be crushed.

When drivers know that tough laws are going to be enforced, that will get them to think twice before they are tempted to race and drive at insane speeds.

Drivers caught going more than 100 mph should be imprisoned under a felony offense. AND their cars should be crushed and the scrap metal sold -- the proceeds going to driver safety programs.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Astounding crash in Kaneohe

When Hawaii Raceway Park was open, there was a lot more going on there than just boring 1/4-mile drag strip racing. Drag racing was easily the most popular, but there was dirt oval track racing and all kinds of road racing (drifting, open-wheel racing cars, road cars, etc.)

I am well aware of the different forms of motorsports that took place there. Although I fail to see how the matter of open-wheel race cars is even relevant to the topic of speeding and street racing, since you obviously can't even drive those cars on the public roads. Last I heard, not a single owner of an open-wheel car has responded to the Campbell track closure by taking their vehicle to H-1.

I agree with what you're saying, however, that having a track doesn't mean people will stop street racing. It probably wouldn't have stopped this accident (Audi/Wilson Tunnel) from happening. I'm sure, however, that the absence of a race track has caused a substantial number of car enthusiasts to break the laws far more often.

Any "enthusiast" who races competitively at the race track knows that the experience and challenges is quite different than illegal street racing. My point is that the legitimate competitors and the street racers are two different animals who get their kicks in different ways. That's the bottom line. Would building a race track get a kid to give up street racing? Maybe a few,.... if any. 1/4 mile, oval track. None of it offers the same feeling as opening it up on the freeway.

Now I'm all for constructing a new race track on Oahu. But I just don't want anybody (especially lawmakers) to deceive themselves into thinking that a new race track is a substitute for tougher laws against street racing.

Open up a race track? Hey, you could have opened up 10 race tracks,.... and that guy in the Audi would still have killed himself somewhere.

[asuhoru]

Re: Astounding crash in Kaneohe

I responded to this call.

This was one of the worst accidents I have seen in my 14 years with the fire service.

Very very sad for those involved.


Be safe, everyone.

[tutusue]

Re: Astounding crash in Kaneohe

I responded to this call. [...]

Wow...I have PTSD symptoms just thinking about what you must've witnessed. A curiosity question, Asuhoru...does the State offer counseling to first responders after such a horrific accident? Or, are police and fire personnel expected to just buck up after a certain amount of time on the job?

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Astounding crash in Kaneohe

Yes, people do drive without insurance. But if they get caught, what happens to them, Gecko?

That's right!!! They get fined.

Yup. It used to be $1000 mandatory fine. It may have gone up since then. But considering that less than two months ago, HA reported that 1 in 8 Hawaii drivers were uninsured, does it sound like the deterrent is effective? I can accept that it's not zero, but 1 in 8?

Now, if you get caught driving without a valid license, what can happen to you, Gecko?

That's right!!! You can get fined. And on repeat offenses, even heftier fines and a "timeshare unit" with Bubba is in the offing for ya.

Now, is that complete enough for you?

The operative words being "if" and "can". The question is what is really happening? Given the odds of being caught without a license is the same as being caught without insurance, I wouldn't recommend taking bets on it keeping those who have lost their licenses out of the driver seat. I also consider it unlikely that someone would be sentenced to jail for driving with a suspended license given the number of violent offenders we're letting go.

I'm not sure exactly what's wrong. Only that it's not working.

[asuhoru]

Re: Astounding crash in Kaneohe

Wow...I have PTSD symptoms just thinking about what you must've witnessed. A curiosity question, Asuhoru...does the State offer counseling to first responders after such a horrific accident? Or, are police and fire personnel expected to just buck up after a certain amount of time on the job?

Our department has counseling via teams who go around to 'group talk' to those involved. These sessions can be immediately after the incident or the next shift on.

Not sure how the PD has their's set up but Im guessing its the same.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Astounding crash in Kaneohe

Yup. It used to be $1000 mandatory fine. It may have gone up since then. But considering that less than two months ago, HA reported that 1 in 8 Hawaii drivers were uninsured, does it sound like the deterrent is effective? I can accept that it's not zero, but 1 in 8?

The Advertiser now estimates that 1 out of 8 drivers in this state are uninsured? If that's true, Gecko, then it indicates that more drivers are heeding the law than in the past. A 1997 article in the SB estimated that "one-fifth to one-third" of all Hawaii drivers at the time drove illegally without no-fault insurance.

http://archives.starbulletin.com/97/...ss/story1.html

Thanks for making my case, Gecko.

The operative words being "if" and "can". The question is what is really happening? Given the odds of being caught without a license is the same as being caught without insurance, I wouldn't recommend taking bets on it keeping those who have lost their licenses out of the driver seat. I also consider it unlikely that someone would be sentenced to jail for driving with a suspended license given the number of violent offenders we're letting go.

I'm not sure exactly what's wrong. Only that it's not working.

Gecko, I don't know why we're even having this discussion. I would think it is common sense for everyone to realize that even the strictest laws do not provide a 100% effectiveness. You will always have people who break the law because they think they can get away with it, or they just don't don't care.

Certain states have capital punishment. Does that stop all murders? Honestly, do I have to answer that question for you?

If you feel that the mandatory no-fault insurance law is not working because 1/8 of drivers are supposedly uninsured, then what do you think the percentage of uninsured drivers will be without the mandatory no-fault law? Got news for you. That percentage will shoot up through the roof.

It doesn't matter a whit what you "consider unlikely" as far as law enforcement/sentencing goes. The bottom line is that driving without a valid licence in this state is a crime, for which you can be arrested. The fact of the matter is that people have gone to prison for multiple citations of driving without a license or with a suspended license. The fact that "more serious" crimes happen in this state isn't going to be a mitigating factor when it comes to sentencing.

[tutusue]

Re: Astounding crash in Kaneohe

Our department has counseling via teams who go around to 'group talk' to those involved. These sessions can be immediately after the incident or the next shift on.[...]

Cool. I highly approve of my taxes being spent for this benefit. It's truly needed.