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View Poll Results: Should New Years fireworks be banned?
Yes, only professional displays should be allowed 13 50.00%
No, everyone should be allowed to use fireworks 13 50.00%
Voters: 26. You may not vote on this poll

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  #76  
Old January 14th, 2009, 08:05 PM
Bobinator Bobinator is offline
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Default Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
The HPD seems to be partially to blame for the matters.
They say they can't effectively control the illegal participants, (some of whom are HPD officers...), but I find this impossible to believe. I don't think they want to.
Like I stated, HPD is allowing the contraband to go through. Keep the legal ones legal and enforce current law. The paperless firecrackers are a lot less noisy and don't cause nearly as much of a disturbance. They also don't leave much residue or paper garbage. If HPD only does what it's supposed to, then Boisse wouldn't be pushing for a Ban.
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  #77  
Old January 14th, 2009, 08:20 PM
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Lightbulb Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tutusue View Post
Ryan (and Mrs. Ryan!) shouldn't be forced from their home in order to protect the health of their children.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 68-eldo View Post
I agree. Why should anybody be driven out of their home because their neighbor has no consideration for their neighbors?
Okay, I also agree, but like tutusue said, Ryan and his ‘ohana were not forced to do what they did... they wanted to. My question was why more people don’t follow his lead, not whether or not they should. At the very least, it supports your local airlines and the outer island economies!
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  #78  
Old January 14th, 2009, 08:54 PM
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Default Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

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Originally Posted by TuNnL View Post
Okay, I also agree, but like tutusue said, Ryan and his ‘ohana were not forced to do what they did... they wanted to. My question was why more people don’t follow his lead, not whether or not they should. At the very least, it supports your local airlines and the outer island economies!
What I thought I said was that they were forced to leave their home to protect the health of their children. That was a NEED. They found a place on the BI that kills 2 birds with one stone...that is, protects the keiki AND gives them some time on their island of choice. That is a WANT! Still, NO ONE should be forced from their home to protect their health from fireworks.

For those who cannot remain at home for health reasons, an outer island trip is a very nice solution. However, the affordability is not an option for so many people...esp. in our current economy. The current fireworks situation is terribly unfair to those people.
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  #79  
Old January 14th, 2009, 11:02 PM
Paul Valenti Paul Valenti is offline
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Default Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

I just got back from Honolulu and my first New Years Eve there in a few years - I oppose a ban for several reasons:
1 It won't work
2 It criminalizes behavior that has been taking place for over 50 years
3 It only happens once a year
4 I like the fireworks and the local parties that accompany the fireworks

Paul valenti
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  #80  
Old January 14th, 2009, 11:28 PM
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LikaNui LikaNui is offline
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Default Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

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Originally Posted by Paul Valenti View Post
It only happens once a year.
Ahem. Try twice. Fourth of July ring a bell? And the fireworks don't just happen on the day of the holiday, they quite often start a week or so in advance, and last a few days afterwards.
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  #81  
Old January 15th, 2009, 12:08 AM
Paul Valenti Paul Valenti is offline
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Default Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

Ok twice - and, yes they do start early - but, so what! There are still over 350 days a year when it doesn't happen and it has been a part of Hawaii's tradition for over half a century. But, most importantly, it really doesn't matter because a lot of people - mostly people who were not born on the Island - have been trying to get fireworks banned in Hawaii for years - it has never worked and it will never work unless we want to have cops in ever yvalley from kalihio to niu and then some - and that probably wouldn't work because there are a logt of local cops who feel the way I do as well. There are far too many really important things to focus on than trying to stop something like fireworks in Hawaii. And, that's MY story and I'm sticking to it.
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  #82  
Old January 15th, 2009, 01:40 AM
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Default Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

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Originally Posted by LikaNui View Post
Ahem. Try twice. Fourth of July ring a bell? And the fireworks don't just happen on the day of the holiday, they quite often start a week or so in advance, and last a few days afterwards.
And for Chinese New Year. And after any close football games, especially in Ewa Beach after September.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Valenti View Post
Ok twice - and, yes they do start early - but, so what!
Thanks for your sympathy. Maybe next New Year's you could start with my respiratory system at my house, and I'll start somewhere else with clean lungs & clean air.

"It has never worked" is an excuse, not a reason, and usually a starting point for change.
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  #83  
Old January 15th, 2009, 02:13 AM
Paul Valenti Paul Valenti is offline
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Default Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

Lika Nui

Sorry, but you don't have my sympathy - you remind me of the folks who bought condo's in the tower next to Iolani back in the sixties knowing full well that the school played football games next to the Ala Wai and then whined and moaned about the noise and tried to stop the games. The same attitude affected the fools who sued the state so that they could build luxury homes in Royal Gardens despite being warned that it was a lava flow plain - and then tried to sue again after Madame Pele destoyed their homes. Fireworks have long been a part of Hawaii's culture - a decidely Asian culture - and the fact that a lot of newcomers don't happen to like it fails to move me in the same way that efforts to ban chicken fighting fails to move me. It has never worked because despite all the complaining - most people - local people - still use fireworks, still want to use fireworks, and are unlikely to stop just because someone tries to ban them. Finally, I can think of at least a dozen other issues that are both far more importand and far more likely to contribute Hawaii's quality of life than the fireworks issue - wasting time on manini stuff distracts us from solving serious problems like the high cost of living, the lousy schools, the the poverty of most Native Hawaiians, and the corruption in high places that infect many parts of Hawaii. Finally, in regard to your lungs and the air - I suppose you drive a car?

With respect,

Paul Valenti - Kamaaiana Portague Haole
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  #84  
Old January 15th, 2009, 02:30 AM
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Default Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Valenti View Post
Lika Nui
Um, I think you meant Nords, not me.
But I'll still answer part of your post:

Quote:
Fireworks have long been a part of Hawaii's culture
Sure. But face it, it's just kids taking advantage of a chance to make noise. Ask any of 'em what the cultural significance is.
It's like when I encounter the young Rasta wannabe's and their Jawaiian pseudo-reggae music. They've got the dreds, they're wearing the colors... and I like to ask them about the culture (as you say about fireworks) and I ask them to tell me who Haile Selassie was.
They have no frickin' idea.
They just like the music and da ganja, mon.
And kids just like fireworks noise.
Nothing cultural about it.
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  #85  
Old January 15th, 2009, 02:45 AM
Paul Valenti Paul Valenti is offline
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Default Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

OK - you have a point - part of my argument stems from a visceral reaction to people trying to change the place where I grew up and make it more like the mainland - I hate living on the mainland - I have grown very tired of it here, but I have a 13 year old who still needs her Daddy close - my wife and I are divorced - so, I kind of want some of old Hawaii to be there when I go home again. Actually, I would be quite happy with some sort of compromise that left the local folks in the valley's - Kalihi, Niu, Manoa, and in what's left of the old neighborhoods like Ewa and what used to be Makakilo - pre-California - to have their fireworks without inundating the entire Island with the noise and smoke - I noticed this year that Waikiki was - relatively speaking - a lot less smoky. Still, I remain unalterably opposed to an outright ban everywhere. Regardless of whether or not the youngsters even recognize their heritage in this regard - I still have fond memories, strong lungs and a stubborn streak.

Fortunately, or unfortunately, I will ultimately have little to say about how this all plays out - I will just have to go with what develops - but, it has been interesting talking to you. It is almost midnight over here in moldland and I have to work early tomorrow so I am going to have to say - Mahalo and Aloha.

Paul Valenti
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  #86  
Old January 15th, 2009, 05:41 AM
integlspwr integlspwr is offline
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Default Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

i agree with paul. when i have kids or adopt etc, i will make sure they celebrate new years with fireworks because its what i was brought up with, with my uncles. All my uncles are the same.

If i recall, you light fireworks around your house to shooo away the bad spirits and to start off the new year fresh and with new energy.
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  #87  
Old January 15th, 2009, 11:39 AM
Paul Valenti Paul Valenti is offline
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Default Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

Thanks integlspwr -

As I said, what matters to me is that we don't just ban everything - local folks with keiki's who combine the festivities and fireworks with neighborhood parties bring the community together in a lot of ways - if the tourists and mainlanders want to ban fireworks in Waikiki - where a lot of local people won't even go anymore - that's fine. But, I don't think trying to do that in Makiki, Kalihi, Aina Haina, Niu, Kalani, Ewa, Waipahu or anywhere else that is largely populated by kamaaina residents is workable or desirable - And, as I said, my attitude may not make sense to a lot of people, but for me, it's what I grew up with, I have always looked forward to it, and still don't mind if da kine gets a little messy once or twice a year. Beyond that, I think bans and so-called "zero tolerance" attitudes are a very mainland thing - and I think I have been pretty clear about how I feel about that.

Hele on!
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  #88  
Old January 15th, 2009, 12:47 PM
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Lightbulb Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1stwahine View Post
HPD Chief Wants Total Fireworks Ban For Oahu
Correa Says Time Right For Ban Despite Lawmakers Previous Decisions

"HONOLULU -- Honolulu's police chief on Tuesday renewed a push for a complete ban on fireworks on Oahu.

Chief Boisse Correa made his case after many illegal aerials rocketed over the island on another New Year's Eve.

A similar push for a ban at the state Legislature eight years ago came close to passing.
Well, it looks like the city may grant Boisse his wish. Charles Djou isn’t waiting around for the state to reconsider a ban. He’s making this a county issue:

Quote:
A resolution seeking county control over state fireworks regulations advanced through a City Council committee yesterday as councilmembers addressed public outcry over a perceived proliferation of fireworks.
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The resolution, proposed by City Councilman Charles K. Djou, does not have the force of law but “urges the state Legislature to amend and strengthen the state Fireworks Control Law, by authorizing the counties to adopt laws more stringent than those imposed by the state.”
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  #89  
Old January 15th, 2009, 01:07 PM
Paul Valenti Paul Valenti is offline
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Default Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

I think the chief's time would be better spent on other things - I seriously doubt that he has the manpower to effectively enforce a ban anyway. I suspect that the chief has political aspirations - this seems like grandstanding to me.
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  #90  
Old January 15th, 2009, 01:42 PM
Ron Whitfield Ron Whitfield is offline
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Default Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

Most of us grew up with fireworks, both legal and illegal.
So what?
We're talking about illegality, along with all the major negatives that go with it that can and does include the loss of life, limb/sight, and property.
The bad greatly outweighs the very little good, and that some are nostalgic for noise and pollution as fun is a poor reason for continuing the assault and dangers.
Some say eating dog is OK because it's a tradition.
I enjoyed playing chicken as a kid, where you seriously risked your life or body parts and the same of others, often innocents. I wouldn't suggest it today..., nor should we keep other tired and hurtful traditions of the past that heavily afflict our neighborhoods.
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  #91  
Old January 15th, 2009, 02:32 PM
Paul Valenti Paul Valenti is offline
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Default Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

I am getting tired of this conversation - and, no, I don't see any problem with eating dogs either, or with Filipino style chicken fighting for that matter. What I am tired of though is the idea that just because some people happen to be tired of something we should make everyuone else stop doing it. There have been fireworks in Hawaii since long before statehood and I am willing to bet there will be fireworks in Hawaii for a long time to come - as I said, if some want to limit it in the commercial districts and in Waikiki - fine, but stop with the zero tolerance, banned everywhere crap - nobody is being assaulted and I see little or no danger - if you are concerned about danger why don't you ban surfing, rock climbing, and bungi jumping. I don't find the tradition either tired or hurtful.

And, just because something is illegal doesn't make it wrong or bad!

I don't mean to be short - I just think there should be some way to find a middle ground - I do not now, nor will I ever see the point in these zero tolerance, demonzation of things some of us don't happen to agree with.

And, that's all I have to say about that.

Paul
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  #92  
Old January 15th, 2009, 02:55 PM
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Default Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

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Originally Posted by Paul Valenti View Post
I am getting tired of this conversation -
That's one of the great things about HT. You are not forced to be here. And, you are not forced to read a thread that you are tired of. (Guess that is actually two great things about HT.)
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  #93  
Old January 15th, 2009, 03:05 PM
Paul Valenti Paul Valenti is offline
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Default Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

Hey - no worries - I liked the discussion, it's just that I think this partiuclar horse is dead - and anyway, all we can do is say what we think and then go with whatever develops. Thanks for the participation.

Paul
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  #94  
Old January 15th, 2009, 03:31 PM
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Default Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Valenti View Post
[...]I still have fond memories, strong lungs and a stubborn streak.[...]
In none of your posts in this thread have I read any acknowledgement or compassion for the more than 154,000 people in Hawaii with lung disease. That number is cited in a PSA for the American Lung Assoc. of Hawaii's upcoming "Breathe Concert" and is more than the entire population of Maui.
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Originally Posted by Paul Valenti View Post
I am getting tired of this conversation - [...]
Paul, with all due respect, you are here...by choice. You continue to read this thread...by choice. If you are truly tired of this conversation, well, the next step is pretty clear. Again, that's your choice.
(ETA: I was composing this reply while Paul was posting his reply above.)
Quote:
[...]What I am tired of though is the idea that just because some people happen to be tired of something we should make everyuone else stop doing it.
And, for some of us the issue is HEALTH. For some reason you choose not to acknowledge that. Out of curiosity...why?
Quote:
I don't mean to be short - I just think there should be some way to find a middle ground [...]
I don't think you're being 'short'. Selfish, yes, but not short. And, I agree that there could and should be a compromise, not an outright ban. I love watching fireworks from the safety of my hale but I don't love that so many people have to suffer because of them.

Last edited by tutusue; January 15th, 2009 at 03:34 PM.
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  #95  
Old January 15th, 2009, 03:55 PM
Paul Valenti Paul Valenti is offline
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Default Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

Ok - So many things to say:

Number one - AS I SAID - I have no problem with some sort of compromise that DOES NOT impose a blanket ban on everyone everywhere. I have plenty of sympathy for people with lung problems - I grew up asthmatic in Hawaii - but, again, AS I SAID - I am opposed to any outright ban on all fireworks everywhere - period.

I said I was tired of the conversation only because, AS I SAID - the horse is dead - I mean, how much is there to say about this? One either thinks there should be a ban, doesn't think there should be a ban or thinks, as I do, that there is a middle ground someplace.

A lot of this is like the Chicken Fighting issue - I am opposed to the mainland style of Chicken Fighting because I think the fowl take too long to die and it ends being brutal rather than exciting, but with the Filipino method, the chickens are dead in seconds. But, a lot of people object on moral grounds - I mean, they are Chickens for Christ sake! People object because it is killing - but we are humans - we kill - witness Gaza, abortions, murder in New Orleans, and the Iraq War - But, in the end, all we can do is say what we think and I feel that saying it over and over again doesn't really serve a purpose. So, in regard to Fireworks - I am not selfish, I think we can have our cake and eat it too - some kind of controls on where peopel use them is certainly acceptable - an outright ban is not.

Thanks for your time
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  #96  
Old January 15th, 2009, 04:05 PM
Ron Whitfield Ron Whitfield is offline
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Default Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

If the cops can't/won't crack down of the few these day's that are blowing off illegals, how will they manage any other controls?
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  #97  
Old January 15th, 2009, 04:13 PM
Paul Valenti Paul Valenti is offline
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Default Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

I don't think the cops are the answer to begin with - pot and chicken fighting are illegal but that hasn't seemed to slow anyone down. The answer is some kind of policy that has the support of most people - then, and only then - will the cops have the community support necessary to enforce what everyone sees as a reasonable law. I work with homeless people everyday here on the mainland and I can tell you right now that if everyone thinks the rules are wrong no one will support police enforcement - everyday I see instances of laws being broken with impunity because no one thinks the laws are right or justifiable. For example, some zealots in this state have passed a rule that prohibits smoking within 25 feet of a bus stop - how do you think that is working out? Law enforcenment only works whenthe vast majority agree withthe law - otherwise, it is an exercise in either repression or futility.
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  #98  
Old January 15th, 2009, 04:14 PM
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Default Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Valenti View Post
[...]So, in regard to Fireworks - I am not selfish, I think we can have our cake and eat it too - some kind of controls on where peopel use them is certainly acceptable - an outright ban is not.[...]
The word 'selfish' was used to note your lack of compassion and acknowledgement for the thousands suffering with lung problems. Your posts were all about...you. And the fact that you suffered from asthma as a child and still didn't acknowledge those with health issues speaks volumes. The word was not used in relationship to the fireworks issue itself.
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  #99  
Old January 15th, 2009, 04:23 PM
Paul Valenti Paul Valenti is offline
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Default Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

Thanks for that - and you're particular concerns aren't selfish because they are NOT all about you?

Folks like you really crack me up! The question was do I agree with banning fireworks or not - I - yes ME - don't agree - that was the answer to that question.

Perhaps you should get off the moral high horse - no one said we shouldn't have compassion for those with health problems, but theirs are not the only concerns here.

ONE MORE TIME - I said that I oppose an outright ban on fireowrks everywhere on the Island - I am fine with some sort of compromise that works for the vast bulk of the population - but, just because some people have health problems DOES NOT mean that we all have to stop living. It's nice to know that there are still self-righteous people like you around - what would we do for entertainment without you? But, hey, I know that when solid argument or compromise fails ad homien is always a good fallback position, isn't it?
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  #100  
Old January 15th, 2009, 04:23 PM
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Lightbulb Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
If the cops can't/won't crack down of the few these day's that are blowing off illegals, how will they manage any other controls?
I’d like to get back to this simple yet important point that Ron is making. If it were as easy as passing a law, fireworks would have ceased to have been a problem years ago. A law is only as good as HPD’s ability to enforce it. If they lack the will or the resources to enforce current laws which specifically ban aerial fireworks and greatly limit the amount of firecrackers you can pop (with city permit documentation required), why would a total ban improve the situation?

We all know there are health concerns. Hell, there are health concerns with vog, and Lord knows that occurs much more often then fireworks, not to mention being more toxic. The question is: what is the most effective solution?
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