The Boeing 737 UNAPPRECIATION thread

[Mike_Lowery]

I went to a awards luncheon today; flew from Lihue, Kauai to Honolulu. Boooooo to my company's purchasing department for booking my flight late and forcing me to fly on that interisland carrier which exclusively flies Boeing 737s.

I swear, that plane has to be the most dangerous aircraft serving major world carriers en masse. The takeoffs and landings were shakier than this year's Lakers squad. Watching the flaps and aelerons quiver during the flight was disconcerting.

The Boeing 717 is PIFF for island hopping and unstable weather. I know the 737 is a financial gem to the Boeing Company., but damn that hulk of garbage. Step your game up, Boeing.

[joshuatree]

Re: The Boeing 737 UNAPPRECIATION thread

I went to a awards luncheon today; flew from Lihue, Kauai to Honolulu. Boooooo to my company's purchasing department for booking my flight late and forcing me to fly on that interisland carrier which exclusively flies Boeing 737s.

I swear, that plane has to be the most dangerous aircraft serving major world carriers en masse. The takeoffs and landings were shakier than this year's Lakers squad. Watching the flaps and aelerons quiver during the flight was disconcerting.

The Boeing 717 is PIFF for island hopping and unstable weather. I know the 737 is a financial gem to the Boeing Company., but damn that hulk of garbage. Step your game up, Boeing.

Wouldn't say it's Boeing's fault. That interisland carrier which exclusively flies Boeing 737s is using a 737-200 for interisland, a model which last saw production in 1988. Do the math and you'll realize how old those buggers are.

[mel]

Re: The Boeing 737 UNAPPRECIATION thread

Yep, the Boeing 737-200 is the oldest of the series currently in service. Aloha Airlines is one of the last ones using this plane for passenger service. In the early 1990s Aloha did switch for a while to the Boeing 737-300/400 series, a slightly larger plane. I think that model never met their interisland flight load projections as they "quietly" reverted back to the 737-200 series.

Except for the incident involving Flight 243 in 1988, the 737-200 has proven to be a safe aircraft for Aloha Airlines for many years.

Aloha is looking into replacing the 737 with something else as indicated by this post at the HNL Rare Birds blog.

I too prefer the Boeing 717 flown by Hawaiian Airlines. Guess what? Demand for the 717 never met Boeing's expectations and the model was discontinued last May. Boeing continues to manufacture and sell many derivatives of the Boeing 737, which is the most popular passenger airplane in the world.

When price becomes a factor ($29 fares anyone?) I'm more than willing to fly on Aloha, Go or Island Air, even if Hawaiian is my preferred carrier to fly to a neighbor island.

[Pomai]

Re: The Boeing 737 UNAPPRECIATION thread

Several years ago on a college project, my girlfriend flew from Maui to Kona on an Aloha Airlines flight on said aircraft. She swears the pilot just got his certification. The plane didn't land, it DROPPED to the ground. Then as it taxied in, it was a whiplash fest. High throttle followed by jerking brakes. Throttle, brake, Throttle, brake. NIGHTMARES!

But that's a pilot issue, not the plane.

I do admire how quiet the BMW/Rolls Royce BR715's operate on Hawaiian's newer Boeing 717 fleet. A great improvement over their aging McDonald Douglas (now merged with Boeing) DC-9 and DC-9 MD-80 fleet. Hawaiian Airlines has a PERFECT (knock on wood) safety record.. something my mom, who retired from, is very proud of.

[mel]

Re: The Boeing 737 UNAPPRECIATION thread

Hawaiian Airlines has a PERFECT (knock on wood) safety record.. something my mom, who retired from, is very proud of.

So far Hawaiian has had a perfect safety record, which is true. However there have been incidents involving Hawaiian Airlines planes.

A few years ago a Hawaiian Airlines DC-10 slid off the runway in Papeete Tahiti.

Way back in 1963 a twin engine Hawaiian Airlines Convair 340 prop plane went beyond the runway and through a fence and into some bushes in Hilo.

About 6 years ago when I was onboard a DC-9 flight from Honolulu to Hilo we had to turn back to HNL about 10 minutes after takeoff as the pilot told us over the intercom that some light had indicated a problem. Good thing because we landed safely and routinely without incident and quickly changed to another Hawaiian DC-9 that was waiting at the terminal to take us to Hilo shortly after.

A few years ago, I was on an Aloha Airlines 737 flight upon which our landing was aborted at the last moment.

[joshuatree]

Re: The Boeing 737 UNAPPRECIATION thread

The 717 never sold well because it was like a stepchild for Boeing. It was known as the MD-95 before Boeing renamed it to fit the plane into their product line. But there were still complications. The 717 and the 737-600 model covered the same 100 pax category. And since the 717 is a MD design, the cockpit layout differed from the rest of the Boeing planes and buyers who were long time Boeing users saw that as a cost op expense in having to train crew to a cockpit that had no similarities.

At this point, I don't even know if Aloha is serious about replacing their planes. That Embraer test drive was back in July 2006. The few other possible replacements would be the Boeing 737-600, Airbus 318, and the Canadair CRJ-900. Out of all of those, the Embraer would seem to be the best fit for Aloha's interisland operations, considering they probably don't want to look at any turboprop options. But I haven't heard anything about Aloha checking out any other planes these days.

[Fat Jeff]

Re: The Boeing 737 UNAPPRECIATION thread

I'll take any variant of the 737 for the short neighbor island jumps. But I'd rather have dental surgery than fly again on the 767's that United flies from the mainland to Hawaii. My last trip I sprung for a first class seat and found it to be less comfortable than coach! Can you believe there was less hip room, and not much more let room than coach? Ugh...on the flipside, I'll fly anywhere on the 777...nice, very nice...

[Lei Liko]

Re: The Boeing 737 UNAPPRECIATION thread

I'll take any variant of the 737 for the short neighbor island jumps. But I'd rather have dental surgery than fly again on the 767's that United flies from the mainland to Hawaii. My last trip I sprung for a first class seat and found it to be less comfortable than coach! Can you believe there was less hip room, and not much more let room than coach? Ugh...on the flipside, I'll fly anywhere on the 777...nice, very nice...

I used to work for United Airlines and so I'd often fly as a Non-Rev in First Class.

You're right -- the 767 First Class Cabin is crap. Same goes for the 757s as well. I did however, like flying the Airbus 319/320.

And you're right, the 777s are freaking awesome...especially First Suite to Japan!

I rarely ever fly with the carrier that exclusively flies 737s, but that's probably a good thing because the last time I did, I felt like I was in a cardboard box that was ready to fall apart. Still, for $29 O/W, I'll just about fly whoever.

[Miulang]

Re: The Boeing 737 UNAPPRECIATION thread

The 717's that Hawaiian flies are wonderful! The entire fleet of HA planes are named for the native birds of Hawai'i, and there's one plane that flies interisland and one that flies the transpac route between Seattle and Maui that have leather seats throughout the entire plane (they may have been the first of the next-gen Boeing jets that HA bought). The leather seats are nice, but the legroom sucks. The other 717s and 767s in HA's fleet have cloth seats, and for some reason, they also have more legroom.

Miulang

[Pomai]

Re: The Boeing 737 UNAPPRECIATION thread

That was one of the perks being a kid with a mother in the airline industry and an executive dad. Every flight we took to Japan, Hong Kong and Europe was on 747s in first class. Often I sat by myself on the top deck, eating peanuts and sippin' Coca Cola. **Singing Firgie's GLAMOROUS**

The coolest part was when the pilots would invite me into the cockpit. They never asked if I've seen a movie about Gladiators or been to a Turkish prison though.

I used to work for United Airlines and so I'd often fly as a Non-Rev in First Class.

You're right -- the 767 First Class Cabin is crap. Same goes for the 757s as well. I did however, like flying the Airbus 319/320.

And you're right, the 777s are freaking awesome...especially First Suite to Japan!

I rarely ever fly with the carrier that exclusively flies 737s, but that's probably a good thing because the last time I did, I felt like I was in a cardboard box that was ready to fall apart. Still, for $29 O/W, I'll just about fly whoever.

[Composite 2992]

Re: The Boeing 737 UNAPPRECIATION thread

The 737 is the most popular commercial passenger jet in the world.

The older jets (the 200 series) are pretty noisy. The newer versions, including the 400 and 600 series, use CFMI turbofan engines with more bypass and are a lot quieter. More efficient, too.

I had the opportunity to actually fly and land a 737, and can attest to the aircraft's responsiveness. It was surprisingly agile, even this particular aircraft which was just a few steps away from being turned to scrap metal. It was far more quick to maneuver than the Cessnas or Piper that I was flying at the time.

If the landing was rough, it's the pilot and conditions. Skill levels vary broadly in any airline, and some people are just better pilots than others, just like some drivers are better than others. The two landings I shot were as smooth as any that I'd done in single-engined light aircraft.

Also, shifting winds and changing weather can also have a dramatic effect upon the quality of a landing. Sometimes you gotta put the plane down firmly and not try to "grease" it in for the sake of passenger comfort.

The captain supervising my flight said that I was able to put the plane at a specified altitude better than some first officers he'd worked with, and that was a surprise to me especially considering the amount of flight hours they'd logged. And it was the first and only time I'd ever flown an aircraft that size.

As for that Aloha's pilots' skills, keep in mind that when one of their aircraft suffered catastrophic structural failure (a situation unforseen by the entire airline industry at that time), it was Aloha's pilots who successfully landed that plane and saved all but one on board. One of the pilots for that flight, Mimi Tompkins, is still flying for them. Robert Schornsteimer since retired.

In subsequent NTSB simulations of that same situation, no other air crew was ever able to land a 737 with similar damage.

The 717 is quieter than its earlier incarnation, the Douglas DC9. Again, engine design has a lot more do do with it than the aircraft it self. But the 717 has its weak points, too. The T-tailed 717 uses a long threaded rod to help provide what's known as the elevator's trim control. An airline in the northwestern part of the US was trying to cut costs by reducing inspections and maintenance. As a result, the threaded rod wore out, the elevator went to full deflection, and the plane "augered in" after several harrowing minutes of the pilots' best efforts to regain control.

Sadly one of the maintenance supervisors warned the company in advance of potentially serious problems with the cutbacks, but was ignored. And even afterward, he was shunned by many in the industry. Others on the outside hailed him as a hero for what he tried to do.

[joshuatree]

Re: The Boeing 737 UNAPPRECIATION thread

That was one of the perks being a kid with a mother in the airline industry and an executive dad. Every flight we took to Japan, Hong Kong and Europe was on 747s in first class. Often I sat by myself on the top deck, eating peanuts and sippin' Coca Cola. **Singing Firgie's GLAMOROUS**

"If you ain't got no money, take your broke a** home!"

[Kaukura]

Re: The Boeing 737 UNAPPRECIATION thread

The 717's that Hawaiian flies are wonderful! The entire fleet of HA planes are named for the native birds of Hawai'i, and there's one plane that flies interisland and one that flies the transpac route between Seattle and Maui that have leather seats throughout the entire plane (they may have been the first of the next-gen Boeing jets that HA bought). The leather seats are nice, but the legroom sucks. The other 717s and 767s in HA's fleet have cloth seats, and for some reason, they also have more legroom.

Miulang

Those leather clad 767's were acquired from a German airline LTU (not Lufthansa) a few years back and are not among the newest aircraft flying. Those leather seats are much thicker and take up more room between rows whereas the newer seats are thinner (I prefer them anyway). They are not that comfortable in my opinion but I am 6'3" so my comfort mileage may vary.

Many people don't realize it's not necessarily the aircraft type that gives the comfort but rather how the airline itself specifies the seat types, space between rows and other amenities. You can put your grandmas recliner in the oldest plane but it may (or may not) be the most comfortable flight you've ever flown on..

[joshuatree]

Re: The Boeing 737 UNAPPRECIATION thread

Those leather clad 767's were acquired from a German airline LTU (not Lufthansa) a few years back and are not among the newest aircraft flying. Those leather seats are much thicker and take up more room between rows whereas the newer seats are thinner (I prefer them anyway). They are not that comfortable in my opinion but I am 6'3" so my comfort mileage may vary.

Many people don't realize it's not necessarily the aircraft type that gives the comfort but rather how the airline itself specifies the seat types, space between rows and other amenities. You can put your grandmas recliner in the oldest plane but it may (or may not) be the most comfortable flight you've ever flown on..

Did HA choose to keep those leather seats from LTU? I thought every 767 they leased or acquired went back to Boeing for a full retrofit before entering HA service?

[Miulang]

Re: The Boeing 737 UNAPPRECIATION thread

Did HA choose to keep those leather seats from LTU? I thought every 767 they leased or acquired went back to Boeing for a full retrofit before entering HA service?

HA must've chosen to keep the leather seats, because the jet named 'io has leather seats and I was squished for legroom (even with the seat in front of me in the full upright position), while on the Kolea, the seats were cloth and I had the legroom I expected (which is not to say that it was spacious, but at least I didn't feel like the seat in front of me was in my lap like I did on 'io)..

Miulang