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  #51  
Old December 18th, 2008, 03:01 PM
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Default Re: Gambling in Hawaii?

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Originally Posted by turtlegirl View Post
I disagree. Though, the same argument was used when Florida got its casino boats - "Now Floridians won't drive up the coast to Atlantic City. Oh, no! Lost revenue!". And the same was said when California got Indian casinos - "Now Californians won't fly to Las Vegas. Oh no! Lost revenue!"

Well, guess what. Atlantic City and Las Vegas are still raking in wads of cash every year, cuz there's no place in the US that comes even close to the experience at these 2 gambling meccas. LV and AC will always be special.
I have 2 comments:

1) Yes, Las Vegas is still a premier resort destination. It is still "special." But you totally neglect to mention what makes it still special.

Vegas has undergone huge changes since other cities legalized casinos. Prior to the 1980s, LV pretty much offered just gaming and shows that were targeted at an adult audience. But now, there's more family-friendly entertainment, theme parks, huge premium outlet malls, sporting events (championship boxing, a speedway that can host Indy and NASCAR events), and so much more.

My point here is that Vegas has stayed at the top,..... but they've had to diversify and adapt to the times. It is not merely living off its history and past glory. Far from it!

2) The experience of Atlantic City actually makes a strong case for Hawaii to legalize gambling. AC was a leading resort destination going back to the 1800s, and for over a century, casinos were not a part of the attraction. Instead, the area was blessed with resources based on its proximity to the ocean. There were the beaches, the boardwalk, amusement parks, vaudeville entertainment, and the site of the Miss America pageant (until a few years ago when it was moved to, you guessed it, LV. Remember what I said about diversifying?) The only legalized gambling that took place was at the horse racing track.

Starting in about the 1960s, AC (as well as Coney Island) began to decline as a visitor attraction as the west coast and Florida became America's favorite playgrounds. To prop up AC's sagging tourism, casinos were legalized in the mid-1970s,..... and the rest as they say, is history.

Like AC, Hawaii has resources that make it a unique destination. But in this day and age of stiff competition from other tropical locales, our beautiful beaches, sunny climate, golf courses and Polynesian culture alone aren't enough. Like LV and AC, we need to diversify and offer other attractions. And gambling would have to be in the mix.
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Last edited by Frankie's Market; December 18th, 2008 at 03:11 PM.
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  #52  
Old December 18th, 2008, 03:27 PM
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Default Re: Gambling in Hawaii?

Hmmm...gambling in Hawaii?

It exists if you know where to go and know someone who can take you in. Get ukapila places. Craps, card games, majong, football, etc. If dey say no moa, dey lying. There's Big Money in Gambling and DRUGS. Protection is key and it's being paid.

Ok. I've said too much foa now.

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  #53  
Old December 18th, 2008, 03:27 PM
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Default Re: Gambling in Hawaii?

One thing I would like to see if possible is if gambling should ever arrive in the islands, I'd love to see a venue or two that could accommodate some top name entertainment in Waikiki where entertainers could do several concert engagements, locals and tourists could enjoy these shows and give an alternative to the gambling at these venues.

But some might say just build a large venue just to accommodate concerts and to heck with the gambling. But this is how it might get built with casino money.

Aj
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  #54  
Old December 18th, 2008, 06:55 PM
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Angry Re: Gambling in Hawaii?

You can bet that there is Gambling in Hawaii, but it's either done by individuals (legally, you can gamble among friends as long as there is no "house" controlling the gambling and payoffs), or it's being done illegally (run by gambling 'joints' or 'houses' where the house makes a profit off the top.

Either way, the State of Hawaii LOSES! It gets no profit, payoff or taxes from the kind of gambling going on.

I am told Nevada has neither sales tax or income tax. Ever wonder why??? Wonder why we are so heavily taxed?

A State lottery would not kill Hawaii; it would take some of the money out of the pockets of drug-dealing criminals and route it to the State. Who do you think is against gambling in Hawaii???

1) Organized crime, and those politicians who are in the pockets of organized crime. But that's not all!

2) Organized religion, very strong and influential in Hawaii has long repressed the will of the people to have a State-run lottery.

This is called 'government of, by and for the special interests.'

I never could understand why Hawaii voters continue to vote for incumbents, or for whomever waves more signs.
Vote for incumbents ONLY if you like the status-quo.
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  #55  
Old December 18th, 2008, 07:04 PM
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Red face Re: Gambling in Hawaii?

hi this is sansei and their is a true reason many year's ago when they wanted to pass a legal law on bringing shipboard gambling only it wasnt passed is that due to criminal's and other's who wish to come here and gamble and make the people who live here give up their saving's and gamble and it would be the same for horseracing and other's such as these and this is all true.

this is why they wouldnt pass a law on shipboard gambling and other's when i was young and i saw it all on the news.


Well thank's for your time
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  #56  
Old December 18th, 2008, 08:23 PM
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Default Re: Gambling in Hawaii?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie's Market View Post

2) The experience of Atlantic City actually makes a strong case for Hawaii to legalize gambling. AC was a leading resort destination going back to the 1800s, and for over a century, casinos were not a part of the attraction. Instead, the area was blessed with resources based on its proximity to the ocean. There were the beaches, the boardwalk, amusement parks, vaudeville entertainment, and the site of the Miss America pageant (until a few years ago when it was moved to, you guessed it, LV. Remember what I said about diversifying?) The only legalized gambling that took place was at the horse racing track.

Starting in about the 1960s, AC (as well as Coney Island) began to decline as a visitor attraction as the west coast and Florida became America's favorite playgrounds. To prop up AC's sagging tourism, casinos were legalized in the mid-1970s,..... and the rest as they say, is history.
I have to speak about this, having lived it. I have talked a bit about it before but I think I need to clarify a few things on this topic. Yes, gambling was legalized to prop up AC's sagging tourism. In fact, it was a last ditch effort to save Atlantic City. No one would go near the place. The tourism had gone "down beach" as they say. On that whole peninsula at the end of New Jersey primarily had its population on the barrier islands all the way down to Cape May. It was truly an awesome place to grow up, Atlantic City not withstanding.

The argument for legalization was that it would bring prosperity and that golden carrot known as year-round jobs (something rare in South Jersey) to the area as a whole. There were promises and more promises about all the good gambling would bring. Well, none of them panned out. What it did do was to attract a completely different kind of visitor. Lots of them to Atlantic City. The casinos were raking it in. However, the state and the mob were in cahoots and the people who had lived there for generations saw nothing except their way of life disappear. Oh wait, we saw an influx of mob, criminals, hookers, drug addicts......... and this affected not only Atlantic City, but extended down toward Cape May. And what money didn't line the pockets of criminals and politicians went to North Jersey (as different from say, Alaska is to Hawaii) The bottom line is, the only ones who prospered from gambling were the casino owners and those whose pockets they lined.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaonohi View Post

A State lottery would not kill Hawaii; it would take some of the money out of the pockets of drug-dealing criminals and route it to the State. Who do you think is against gambling in Hawaii???

1) Organized crime, and those politicians who are in the pockets of organized crime. But that's not all!
Don't go by Atlantic City's example. Legalization started a mob war. New York vs. South Phillie. I believe the South Phillie mob was pretty much wiped out. Massacre on Cherry St. I think the dubbed it. The state and town politicians were just as bad. I think they indicted an entire town (mayor etc.) once not so long ago. Pleasantville was the town, I believe.

Maybe Hawaii could learn from the mistakes that were made in Atlantic City. I'd hate to see Hawaii turn into another Atlantic City
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  #57  
Old December 18th, 2008, 08:58 PM
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Default Re: Gambling in Hawaii?

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Originally Posted by Kalihiboy View Post
One thing I would like to see if possible is if gambling should ever arrive in the islands, I'd love to see a venue or two that could accommodate some top name entertainment in Waikiki where entertainers could do several concert engagements, locals and tourists could enjoy these shows and give an alternative to the gambling at these venues.
We already have the venue -- the massively underused Convention Center! It's in the perfect location, on the edge of Waikiki but easily accessible to the 'locals' as well. And it would turn a money-losing white elephant into a money maker, sending tons of buck$ into the city coffers.
I haven't decided if I'm for or against gambling here, but... the convention center is the perfect place for it.
I think I would be amenable to a lottery, as long as the profits go to schools and charitable causes.
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  #58  
Old December 18th, 2008, 09:12 PM
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Default Re: Gambling in Hawaii?

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Originally Posted by acousticlady View Post
Oh wait, we saw an influx of mob, criminals, hookers, drug addicts.
Interesting viewpoint you bring to the discussion. I just had to say, though.... we don't have legalized gambling in Hawaii as yet. That fact hasn't shielded our state from petty/organized crime, prostitution, and drug addiction, has it? Maybe not on the scale of AC, but it's there in the islands. Don't kid yourself otherwise. Spend a Friday and Saturday night on the sidewalks of Kuhio Avenue and your eyes will be opened up to reality.
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  #59  
Old December 18th, 2008, 10:20 PM
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Default Re: Gambling in Hawaii?

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Originally Posted by Frankie's Market View Post
Interesting viewpoint you bring to the discussion. I just had to say, though.... we don't have legalized gambling in Hawaii as yet. That fact hasn't shielded our state from petty/organized crime, prostitution, and drug addiction, has it? Maybe not on the scale of AC, but it's there in the islands. Don't kid yourself otherwise. Spend a Friday and Saturday night on the sidewalks of Kuhio Avenue and your eyes will be opened up to reality.
Oh to be sure, I agree it already exists. Just as it did in South Jersey. But, it wasn't as prevalent or as overt. I think there was a period in the 80's that would have made Tony Soprano blush.

I think the lottery would actually be a good thing as long as it is well managed. But I would be very careful of full scale legal gambling.
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  #60  
Old December 19th, 2008, 02:25 AM
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Default Re: Gambling in Hawaii?

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Originally Posted by LikaNui View Post
We already have the venue -- the massively underused Convention Center! It's in the perfect location, on the edge of Waikiki but easily accessible to the 'locals' as well. And it would turn a money-losing white elephant into a money maker, sending tons of buck$ into the city coffers. I haven't decided if I'm for or against gambling here, but... the convention center is the perfect place for it.
I think I would be amenable to a lottery, as long as the profits go to schools and charitable causes.
I know Paul Anka, Michael McDonald and many others have held private concerts at the Convention Center for various conventions brought in from the mainland. I don't know the seating capacity of the convention center, heck I only go when I have to pick up my Honolulu Marathon race packet. But this is a good idea.

Before casino gambling, a state lottery should be introduced first, Have a large chunk go to education and other good causes, bring it to a ballot issue (I would not be surprised if this comes up as a big topic for the next Governor) and let the people decide.

Aj
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  #61  
Old December 20th, 2008, 03:43 AM
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Default Re: Gambling in Hawaii?

Quote:
Yes, Las Vegas is still a premier resort destination. It is still "special." But you totally neglect to mention what makes it still special.

Vegas has undergone huge changes since other cities legalized casinos. Prior to the 1980s, LV pretty much offered just gaming and shows that were targeted at an adult audience. But now, there's more family-friendly entertainment, theme parks, huge premium outlet malls, sporting events (championship boxing, a speedway that can host Indy and NASCAR events), and so much more.
Aside from the championship boxing, the city I grew up in has every single one of those things- a theme park, three premium outlet malls within an hour of each other (not to mention the OTHER 12 malls in the metroplex..and those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head), museums, sporting events, shows, etc. And nobody's exactly rushing to come to Dallas, TX for a vacation. Why's that, I wonder?

TG's right. LV and AC just have that magic draw to them. I don't care how many commercials they put on TV about their restaurants, shopping, shows, whatever. Most people go to Vegas to gamble. Or at least one of the people in their party are there to gamble. If locals want to go shopping, there are plenty of places to go here on the island. So the "against" arguments are such crap. Vegas isn't going to lose jack if we legalize gambling here.

This was going on in Arkansas when I lived there, and that state needed the money as badly as Hawaii does. Tunica, Miss was all mad b/c they thought they'd lose money from gamblers. So gambling's still illegal, Arkansas still sucks, and nothing's been resolved.

...And these are the days of our lives...
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  #62  
Old December 25th, 2008, 04:39 PM
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Default Re: Gambling in Hawaii?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LikaNui View Post
I think I would be amenable to a lottery, as long as the profits go to schools and charitable causes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalihiboy View Post
Have a large chunk go to education and other good causes
While the money may go to education, what do you think the end result will be?

I predict that the state would either cut back funding or start shifting expenses to the DOE. Net effect - little to no benefit to education - all the real benefit would go to the general budget and/or political pork.
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  #63  
Old December 27th, 2008, 06:34 PM
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Default Re: Gambling in Hawaii?

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Originally Posted by GeckoGeek View Post
While the money may go to education, what do you think the end result will be?

I predict that the state would either cut back funding or start shifting expenses to the DOE. Net effect - little to no benefit to education - all the real benefit would go to the general budget and/or political pork.
I think we would have to see how other states operate who put the majority of lottery funds into education. I think it is Georgia, I could be wrong on this who has been amongst the most successful in this in recent years.

My high school in AZ was torn down and re-built, as was my K-8th grade schools and several other elementary and middle schools while here we repair existing schools. Not saying which system is better, but I would hope funds derived from the lottery could be put to better use than what we now have in place.

Aj
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  #64  
Old December 28th, 2008, 10:30 PM
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Default Re: Gambling in Hawaii?

Well, for most of the mainland, the school funding is done on a more local level. In Hawaii it's done at the state level. I think that gives it a little more equality of funding across counties then you'd find in the mainland. So there may be places in the mainland where an underfunded school did benefit. But I'd sure be looking across the whole range of experience and not a few examples.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalihiboy View Post
I would hope funds derived from the lottery could be put to better use than what we now have in place.
Agreed. I don't think giving DOE more money is going to fix much. I believe DOE's problems is more in how it uses the money than how much it gets.
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  #65  
Old December 29th, 2008, 12:12 AM
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Default Re: Gambling in Hawaii?

Any and every time this shows up on a ballot, I am going to vote it down. I have never been to LV, though I have been to a few Indian casinos. Wherever it is legal it is...ugly. Machines in convenience stores. Blinky signs designed to attract some sap who hopes to **WIN!!**

I don't want to see it, live around it, raise my children and grandchildren exposed to it. Thus far I have been granted my wish. I understand well the arguments pro and con. My vote will always be no.
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  #66  
Old December 29th, 2008, 01:54 AM
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Default Re: Gambling in Hawaii?

My sources tell me that gambling dens close up real fast when the power goes out like a couple of days ago.
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  #67  
Old April 6th, 2009, 09:33 PM
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Wink Re: Gambling in Hawaii?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pua'i Mana'o View Post
Any and every time this shows up on a ballot, I am going to vote it down. I have never been to LV, though I have been to a few Indian casinos. Wherever it is legal it is...ugly. Machines in convenience stores. Blinky signs designed to attract some sap who hopes to **WIN!!**

I don't want to see it, live around it, raise my children and grandchildren exposed to it. Thus far I have been granted my wish. I understand well the arguments pro and con. My vote will always be no.
You bring up some logical, salient and just plain common-sense points.

I'm against casino gambling here because I think it would sully our island paradise. I've always been for a lottery system, and it COULD be done tastefully and productively, but do I trust Hawaii politicians to keep it that way? HAH!

So, I'll just keep sending my money out of state each month on the VERY SLIM chance that I might get any return.

I have ex-relatives who HAVE hit it big - and the hardly deserved it - so I guess it could happen to anyone. $52.00 a year isn't a big investment; some magazines cost more! I don't know how many other people are doing this, but... that money COULD stay here.

People living in Hawaii have gambling fever. The airlines and travel agencies know it, and constantly ship people to Lost Wages, NV to show them a good time while they fleece them.

I used to go to school at UC Davis. In the summer I'd go to Tahoe and play craps. I saved my inevitable winnings (never ostentatious) and used it for ski tickets and gear for the winter. Year end I pretty much broke even. Tahoe knows (or knew) how to do gambling with good taste.

Now, maybe if we legalized gambling on only one island (Kaho`olawe?, Molokai? [Bite your tongue], Ni`ihau? Lanai?), or even shipboard gambling? Nah, maybe not. Of course people gotta have SOME reason to go out on the Lanai....

A state-run lottery with tickets only at Satellite City Halls? Tickets by mail? Or - get this - sold by students as a fund-raiser! Like they do with coupon books and cookies and krispy creme donuts? They'd get more takers! "Hey, buy a non-fattening lottery ticket!"

I think we will never see any gambling here. Hawaii is too provincial, to controlled by religious organizations, too conservative (even though we vote liberal, go figger!)

With all our faults, there is no place I'd rather be... (though I HAVE been eyeing Tahiti lately....)
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  #68  
Old April 7th, 2009, 03:36 AM
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Default Re: Gambling in Hawaii?

I'm in Seattle as we speak.

Lessee, I've been to Muckleshoot Casino, bought a crap-ton of scratch tickets, and been to some cardrooms.

Coulda spent that money in Hawaii.

Naw, it went to WA.

But then again, I came out even, so nobody won anything.

But it was fun while it lasted....
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  #69  
Old April 7th, 2009, 09:58 AM
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Default Re: Gambling in Hawaii?

Gambling in Hawaii would be OK only if it doesn't bring in the mob from Vegas, and retains its local flavor and culture. How about legalized cock fighting on the Big Island?
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