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  #26  
Old May 29th, 2011, 06:17 PM
joshuatree joshuatree is offline
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Default Re: Hawaiian Airlines' New Mileage Policy

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Originally Posted by craigwatanabe View Post
whether Go airlines was the bad guy, let's look at the end result, Hawaiian came out the winner. Yes Go cut their fares, so did Hawaiian. Hawaiian was just at fault here for Aloha's demise. Aloha Airlines also had it's own internal issues that kept it from being competitive against even a smaller unknown called Go.

Then when you look at Hawaiian's actions during the time Aloha was crumbling to pieces when Hawaiian was building up routes thruout the south pacific and modernizing it's fleet of aircraft during a time of economic hardships, it was as if Hawaiian knew Aloha would dissolve into nothing and was preparing itself to pick up the pieces where Aloha left.

Remember Hawaiian and Aloha airlines were fierce competitors bent on driving each other into the ground. There was no aloha between the two. Go Airlines simply tipped the balance in favor of Hawaiian.

In the end, between Go, Aloha and Hawaiian, Hawaiian Airlines not only came out the winner, but seems to have turned a major profit during a very bleak period of our economic recession. And now Hawaiian is driving a symbolic nail into the coffin by doing the Walmart move, by removing incentives and raising prices simply because they can. Remember, crude oil is dropping in price? Yet I don't see airfare doing the same, as a matter of fact, it's going up despite plummeting oil prices.

Hawaiian is the real issue here, not Go. They've maneuvered themselves as a somewhat monopoly by making themselves the only airlines we will travel out of respect for Aloha Airlines, their only real competitor that they managed to drive into the ground.

Yes Go Airlines is a crappy airlines, but you don't see Hawaiian airlines worrying about it's only competition. They're raising everything and telling everybody including loyal patrons that it's too bad and there's nothing you can do about it. What are you going to do about it? Fly Go? Apparently those loyal to Aloha and now fly Hawaiian won't, and you can bet that Hawaiian knows that.

As they say, "we got you by the balls". Hawaiian is the true bad guy here, Go was simply the scapegoat. I wonder who sits on Go's board of directors...my hunch is it's someone with pull from Hawaiian pulling the strings on this puppet airlines.
Interesting that no one mentions Island Air, are they serving no one?

Ultimately, the only way interisland fares can be lowered and sustainable is if one of the operators switches over to large turboprops. For such short lights, a prop can perform just as fast (maybe 5-10 min more) yet consume 20% less fuel.
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  #27  
Old May 29th, 2011, 07:01 PM
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Default Re: Hawaiian Airlines' New Mileage Policy

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Originally Posted by matapule View Post
I expect you to Google whatever airline you want.......or do I need to spoon feed you with the exact URL?
Well, I've spent the last 15 minutes trying to google the accounting books for several of the major commercial carriers.... and failed.

Mock me if you want. I can't find that info.

So yes, I guess you're gonna have to spoon feed me the URLs which contain the financial information for each of the airlines.

I am more than eager to be shown solid and comprehensive data which would cause me to revise my thinking.... if in fact, such information does exist. So please lead the way.

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Originally Posted by matapule View Post
I don't think airlines should be charity cases. I think the Governement needs to step in once again and regulate the industry.
Suffice it to say, we're definitely going to have to agree to disagree on this.
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  #28  
Old May 29th, 2011, 11:52 PM
Leo Lakio Leo Lakio is offline
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Default Re: Hawaiian Airlines' New Mileage Policy

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Originally Posted by matapule View Post
Corporate books of all airlines are open to the public.
Is this the sort of info to which you refer? (The link is to the detailed financials of Hawaiian Airlines for the first quarter of 2011, for those who want to know before they click.) Easily found online, in fewer than two minutes.
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  #29  
Old May 30th, 2011, 02:24 AM
Walkoff Balk Walkoff Balk is offline
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Default Re: Hawaiian Airlines' New Mileage Policy

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Originally Posted by joshuatree View Post
Ultimately, the only way interisland fares can be lowered and sustainable is if one of the operators switches over to large turboprops. For such short lights, a prop can perform just as fast (maybe 5-10 min more) yet consume 20% less fuel.
Was that Mahalo Airlines?
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  #30  
Old May 30th, 2011, 04:48 AM
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Default Re: Hawaiian Airlines' New Mileage Policy

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Originally Posted by Leo Lakio View Post
Is this the sort of info to which you refer? (The link is to the detailed financials of Hawaiian Airlines for the first quarter of 2011, for those who want to know before they click.) Easily found online, in fewer than two minutes.
if an airline (or any company) is publicly owned, they have to make SEC filings yearly. those filings are usually included in a company's annual report which is often available through a company's website - such as Hawaiian Holdings. For anyone who knows how to use a search engine, these are pretty easy to find.
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Last edited by anapuni808; May 30th, 2011 at 04:53 AM.
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  #31  
Old May 30th, 2011, 02:17 PM
joshuatree joshuatree is offline
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Default Re: Hawaiian Airlines' New Mileage Policy

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Originally Posted by Walkoff Balk View Post
Was that Mahalo Airlines?
Yes, that was one of them. But Mahalo used smaller than the largest props available today which are far better in ride comfort to challenge jets.
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  #32  
Old May 30th, 2011, 02:37 PM
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Default Re: Hawaiian Airlines' New Mileage Policy

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Originally Posted by Leo Lakio View Post
Is this the sort of info to which you refer? (The link is to the detailed financials of Hawaiian Airlines for the first quarter of 2011, for those who want to know before they click.) Easily found online, in fewer than two minutes.
Thanks! I'll be looking over these numbers for awhile.

Maybe it was easy for some people to find. But I was unaware of this part of WSJ's website. Fascinating.
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  #33  
Old May 30th, 2011, 04:36 PM
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Default Re: Hawaiian Airlines' New Mileage Policy

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Originally Posted by matapule View Post
I think I understand. HAL has made the business decision to modify their mileage plan in order to weather the rise in cost of fuel and operations. I don't understand why some here are complaining. It is a reality of business.
Yes, rising fuel costs was a reality. But many airlines were better hedged against this expense compared to HAL.

Thanks to Leo's helpful guidance, the number that stands out on Hawn. Holdings' statement (comparing the 1st quarter of 2010 & '11) was the 55.5% spike in fuel costs. Talk about a major OUCH!!!!!

But how about the same statistic for the other carriers in the same time period?

Southwest Airlines - 26.4%

American Airlines - 24.8%

United Continental - 28.4%

Delta - 29%

Oh, but are just the Big Dawgs. How about smaller entities, like:

WestJet - 22.6%

Alaska Airlines - -16% (That's NO misprint. Alaska Air's fuel expenses dropped by $12.8 million, while still posting a net income for the quarter.)

Seems to me like the powers-that-be at HAL have done a very poor job in managing fuel expenses, absorbing increases that are about double what Southwest, American, United, and Delta have each paid for. And the response to their incompetence is,.. what? Stick it to the loyal base of Hawn. Miles customers?

There ya go, everyone. Decide for yourselves if this is the kind of treatment that HAL's frequent flyers deserve.
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Last edited by Frankie's Market; May 30th, 2011 at 05:14 PM.
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  #34  
Old May 30th, 2011, 05:54 PM
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Default Re: Hawaiian Airlines' New Mileage Policy

I'd rather see the airlines make a profit and thus be able to stay in business. I make my reservations by looking at the best price, convenient destination, and workable departure/arrival times. Accumulating mileage is last on my list of why I choose an airline. So for me, they could actually do away with mileage and it would not be all that upsetting.

Additionally, when my family takes a trip on an airline, we are not able to ever have enough accumulated mileage to get everyone on the flight "for free". So, pricing is more important.

As for travel for work, the above three criteria [best price, convenient destination, and workable departure/arrival times] are what get me to book a certain flight.

Mileage is a happy bonus, but the basic pricing, etc, is what counts in the long run.

http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/b...122824103.html

U.S. airlines burn an average of 22 gallons of fuel for every 1,000 miles each passenger flies. At $3.03 a gallon, airlines are currently spending $330 per passenger just on fuel for a 4,950-mile transcontinental round-trip. Some fliers might have paid less than that for their ticket while others could have spent more than $2,000.

A decade ago, fuel accounted for about 15 percent of airline operating expenses. Five years ago, it was 29 percent. Today, itís 35 percent.

Salaries and benefits account for 28 percent. Ten years ago, it was the biggest expense at 39 percent. But several major airlines filed for bankruptcy and that allowed them to renegotiate labor contracts.

Aircraft maintenance, airport landing fees and travel agency commissions account for 18 percent.

Aircraft lease payments, food and drinks and in-flight entertainment account for 5 percent. And thatís even with most airlines no longer serving peanuts.

Another 14 percent goes to miscellaneous costs, such as updating reservation systems and marketing partnerships with other airlines.
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  #35  
Old May 30th, 2011, 10:21 PM
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Default Re: Hawaiian Airlines' New Mileage Policy

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Originally Posted by Amati View Post
I'd rather see the airlines make a profit and thus be able to stay in business..........
Thank you Amati for a very thoughtful and comprehensive reply. Your information is something we can sink our teeth into rather than asking someone else to do our research for us.
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  #36  
Old May 30th, 2011, 10:33 PM
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Default Re: Hawaiian Airlines' New Mileage Policy

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Originally Posted by Frankie's Market View Post
There ya go, everyone. Decide for yourselves if this is the kind of treatment that HAL's frequent flyers deserve.
No disputing your logic, "don't fly with HAL because they are poorly managed." But then watch HAL go out of business because of your logic and watch your fares on GO double in cost. Yes, that makes sense and is justice!

I've been thinking FM, that you are the perfect person to be CEO of HAL and YOU can make all the clairvoyant business decisions. I've been there and done that, and making all the "best" decisions at any one time is not all that easy or obvious. But then again,, I admit, you know better than I.
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  #37  
Old May 30th, 2011, 11:19 PM
Leo Lakio Leo Lakio is offline
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Default Re: Hawaiian Airlines' New Mileage Policy

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Originally Posted by Frankie's Market View Post
Thanks! I'll be looking over these numbers for awhile.
Maybe it was easy for some people to find. But I was unaware of this part of WSJ's website. Fascinating.
You are most welcome, sir.
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  #38  
Old May 31st, 2011, 12:58 AM
joshuatree joshuatree is offline
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Default Re: Hawaiian Airlines' New Mileage Policy

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Originally Posted by Amati View Post
I'd rather see the airlines make a profit and thus be able to stay in business. I make my reservations by looking at the best price, convenient destination, and workable departure/arrival times. Accumulating mileage is last on my list of why I choose an airline. So for me, they could actually do away with mileage and it would not be all that upsetting.

Additionally, when my family takes a trip on an airline, we are not able to ever have enough accumulated mileage to get everyone on the flight "for free". So, pricing is more important.

As for travel for work, the above three criteria [best price, convenient destination, and workable departure/arrival times] are what get me to book a certain flight.

Mileage is a happy bonus, but the basic pricing, etc, is what counts in the long run.
I mostly agree but I may put mileage above best price if the price differential is not that significant. So far, people have been discussing mileage in the context of free tickets but many mileage earners use them merely for their perks as elite members. For instance, a higher priced ticket may not be a bad move at all if the mileage is enough to bump me into a higher status that waives baggage fees. Some allow additional checked baggage free of charge and some allow access to lounges or priority ticketing/boarding. Money made back right there.
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