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  #1  
Old May 31st, 2011, 04:39 PM
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cabanalane cabanalane is offline
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Question Smaller cars in Hawaii?

Since I left Hawaii long time ago, so I don't know.

Cars today seems to get bigger and bigger. Take Honda Accord for example. It used to be a small car back in the 70s and 80s. Then it became a good medium size car. Today, the Accord is large, and hungry. We can add Trucks-SUVs to the list too. A pick up truck is huge compare to 15-25 years ago.

Also, there are a bunch of smaller cars too. Or we should call them micro cars. Cars like the Honda Fit. Ok, I know they are roomy, and etc, but you know what I mean by "small."

Just wondering. With high gas prices, and smaller streets and parking spaces, are small cars popular?

I'm only using Honda for example. But we can use any brand.
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  #2  
Old June 2nd, 2011, 01:00 PM
zff zff is offline
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Default Re: Smaller cars in Hawaii?

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Originally Posted by cabanalane View Post
A pick up truck is huge compare to 15-25 years ago.
I know what you mean. I don't necessarily mind that trucks are getting bigger, but I wish I could still buy the smaller-sized ones. I used to have an old Toyota pickup, and although I like the new Tacomas, I wish I could still buy a mini-truck from Toyota.

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Originally Posted by cabanalane View Post
Just wondering. With high gas prices, and smaller streets and parking spaces, are small cars popular?
Yeah, those "micro cars" as you call them are definitely popular.
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  #3  
Old June 2nd, 2011, 01:31 PM
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Default Re: Smaller cars in Hawaii?

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Originally Posted by cabanalane View Post
Cars today seems to get bigger and bigger. Take Honda Accord for example. It used to be a small car back in the 70s and 80s. Then it became a good medium size car. Today, the Accord is large, and hungry. We can add Trucks-SUVs to the list too. A pick up truck is huge compare to 15-25 years ago.
There's a practical reason why compact p/up trucks aren't as popular as before. It's called safety.

Back in the old days, people didn't think twice about having any number of passengers ride in the open bed of their trucks. But with laws becoming more restrictive and more news stories about fatalities involving p/ups, truck owners are more apt to purchase vehicles with extended/crew cabs so that they can carry a couple of people in the back seat and not get hassled by the cops... or their conscience.
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Old June 2nd, 2011, 03:52 PM
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Default Re: Smaller cars in Hawaii?

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Originally Posted by Frankie's Market View Post
There's a practical reason why compact p/up trucks aren't as popular as before. It's called safety.

Back in the old days, people didn't think twice about having any number of passengers ride in the open bed of their trucks. But with laws becoming more restrictive and more news stories about fatalities involving p/ups, truck owners are more apt to purchase vehicles with extended/crew cabs so that they can carry a couple of people in the back seat and not get hassled by the cops... or their conscience.
Is that really the compelling factor? If someone wanted to haul people, wouldn't he/she buy a minivan or an SUV -- or even a sedan? Isn't there still a market for people who buy trucks just to haul stuff and not people?

Last edited by zff; June 2nd, 2011 at 03:58 PM.
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  #5  
Old June 2nd, 2011, 04:23 PM
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Is that really the compelling factor? If someone wanted to haul people, wouldn't he/she buy a minivan or an SUV -- or even a sedan? Isn't there still a market for people who buy trucks just to haul stuff and not people?
Let me guess. You've never owned an open bed pick-up, right? 'Cause if you did, then I wouldn't be answering this qustion.

Yes, if someone wanted a vehicle to haul a family of 3 or more kids to school, shopping, and soccer practice, then of course it makes sense to purchase a minivan or SUV.

But that's not what I was talking about. I was thinking more along the lines of someone who doesn't usually carry passengers. But there's the key word. Usually. There are occasional times when a single guy (or gal) needs to give 2 or more friends a lift. If that person owns a crew cab, then he/she has a back seat to use. It may not be ideal for everyday use with kids or for long road trips. But if you're in a pinch, it'll do.

Not so for a p/up truck with a small cab that's only meant for the driver and one passenger. At the most, you could try to squeeze in two passengers. And even then, you could get pulled over by a cop and cited if there's no seat belt for the middle passenger.
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  #6  
Old June 2nd, 2011, 04:38 PM
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Default Re: Smaller cars in Hawaii?

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Originally Posted by Frankie's Market View Post
Let me guess. You've never owned an open bed pick-up, right? 'Cause if you did, then I wouldn't be answering this qustion.
I stated in my previous post that I used to own a Toyota pickup. I own a Mazda B-series now, but if I need to carry more than 2 people, I would use my car.

I don't doubt that there are uncommon situations -- the single guy who often has to haul big stuff and only occassionally has to carry more than 1 other person, or the 1-vehicle family that's always hauling big or dirty cargo. I'm not saying there isn't a market for mid-sized trucks. All I'm saying is there must surely still be a substantial market for the small ones too.

Last edited by zff; June 2nd, 2011 at 04:54 PM. Reason: Spelling, elaborate, etc.
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  #7  
Old June 2nd, 2011, 05:12 PM
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I own a Mazda B-series now, but if I need to carry more than 2 people, I would use my car.
Yes, IF you own a second car. OTOH, a lot of people can only afford to own one vehicle and need to make the choice that will best fulfill their needs. And at the present time, the compact p/up doesn't seem to be that choice.

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Originally Posted by zff View Post
I don't doubt that there are uncommon situations -- the single guy who often has to haul big stuff and only occassionally has to carry more than 1 other person, or the 1-vehicle family that's always hauling big or dirty cargo. I'm not saying there isn't a market for mid-sized trucks. All I'm saying is there must surely still be a substantial market for the small ones too.
You claim that there "must" be a substantial market for the small pickups. Well, if such a market still existed and money was to be made, then don't you think the auto manufacturers would definitely be trying to supply that demand?

The truth of the matter is that there's no longer much of a demand for the compact-sized pickup in this country. If there was, then Ford wouldn't be ending its domestic production of the Ranger. (The 2011s are the last model year for this longtime nameplate.)
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  #8  
Old June 2nd, 2011, 07:44 PM
Pohaku Pohaku is offline
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Default Re: Smaller cars in Hawaii?

I had a hand-me-down '89 Ranger. I never liked trucks before that--I'd seen too many ostentatious city drivers with giant gas guzzlers. Hummers drive me crazy! But I am there with you folks who love the smaller trucks. You have all this hauling potential while you're just zipping around. This one actually had a tiny, uncomfortable extended cab, so people hardly ever rode in the bed. It was a good distance from perfect, but it worked when needed.

Right now, I've got a Subaru station wagon, which works for the family vehicle...carseat in the back, or put the seat down to haul the xmas tree or whatever.
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Old June 2nd, 2011, 08:05 PM
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Default Re: Smaller cars in Hawaii?

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Originally Posted by Frankie's Market View Post
You claim that there "must" be a substantial market for the small pickups. Well, if such a market still existed and money was to be made, then don't you think the auto manufacturers would definitely be trying to supply that demand?
Yes. I'm sure the auto industry knows its market WAY better than I do, but rereading my post, I can see how it looks like I'm try to imply otherwise.

I guess I was just sort of venting my frustrations at the lack of choices in the compact truck category. I was taking a bit of license and using "must" in that rhetorical, longing sort of way. You know, like "surely, there 'must' be a way to convey the subtleties of spoken language in text". Either way, it's a fruitless longing, I'm aware.



I didn't realize HawaiiThreads was such an unforgiving audience. Maybe I need to use more smileys. I'm just not a smiley kind of guy.
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  #10  
Old June 2nd, 2011, 08:27 PM
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Default Re: Smaller cars in Hawaii?

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Originally Posted by zff View Post
[...]
I guess I was just sort of venting my frustrations at the lack of choices in the compact truck category. I was taking a bit of license and using "must" in that rhetorical, longing sort of way. You know, like "surely, there 'must' be a way to convey the subtleties of spoken language in text". Either way, it's a fruitless longing, I'm aware.
FWIW, it was easily apparent to me what you were implying.
Quote:
I didn't realize HawaiiThreads was such an unforgiving audience. Maybe I need to use more smileys. I'm just not a smiley kind of guy.
For the most part, HTers tend to get it. Then there are those who take the fun out of dysfunctional. Fortunately there are more of the former. If it helps, you can always use the "ignore" feature.
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  #11  
Old June 2nd, 2011, 09:18 PM
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Default Re: Smaller cars in Hawaii?

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Originally Posted by tutusue View Post
FWIW, it was easily apparent to me what you were implying.
Tutu, give us an update on your hybrid. I know you don't drive it that much, but I think you've had it for almost a year now. Tempus fugit.
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  #12  
Old June 2nd, 2011, 09:42 PM
zff zff is offline
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Default Re: Smaller cars in Hawaii?

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Originally Posted by tutusue View Post
FWIW, it was easily apparent to me what you were implying.
Thanks, Tutu!

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Originally Posted by tutusue View Post
If it helps, you can always use the "ignore" feature.
Oh no! I didn't mean to imply Frankie was bothering me or irritating me. I certainly hope he doesn't get that impression either. This wouldn't be the first time I've had my rhetoric or sarcasm being taken the wrong way. You'd think by now I'd learn.

When I go back and reread my post, I can see why Frankie responded the way he did. I've been guilty of being too serious on forums too. It's not a problem in the least, but thanks, Tutu, for your concern!
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Old June 2nd, 2011, 10:14 PM
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Default Re: Smaller cars in Hawaii?

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Originally Posted by matapule View Post
Tutu, give us an update on your hybrid. I know you don't drive it that much, but I think you've had it for almost a year now. Tempus fugit.
I'm still loving it after 3200 miles and 11 months! 85% of my driving is around town so I don't get the same great mileage as folks on the mainland who get to take their cars out for long stretches. Still, I went from 12-15 mpg to 35 mpg. No complaints, esp. with the current price of gas. Other than a fairly low lease payment, gas and insurance, I haven't spent a dime on the car. I like to fugit about my tempus, thank you very much!

How about yours? Hybrid, not tempus!
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  #14  
Old June 2nd, 2011, 11:27 PM
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Oh no! I didn't mean to imply Frankie was bothering me or irritating me. I certainly hope he doesn't get that impression either. This wouldn't be the first time I've had my rhetoric or sarcasm being taken the wrong way. You'd think by now I'd learn.

When I go back and reread my post, I can see why Frankie responded the way he did. I've been guilty of being too serious on forums too. It's not a problem in the least, but thanks, Tutu, for your concern!
I didn't sense any irritation on your part, either. You have your POV on the matter, as do mine. It's all good.

Getting back to Cabanalane's original post, I just wanted to provide a sensible answer and an explanation to the question that seemed to be perplexing.... why are motorists in Hawaii purchasing larger, heavier pick-ups compared to 20 years ago, despite rising gas prices? And I wanted to point out that it's not just superficial reasons, like people simply more room for booming subwoofers or wanting to feel like the "King of the Road." There are practical considerations in the matter.

Think about this. Fifty years ago, nobody blinked an eyelash if a parent cradled an infant in the passenger seat of a moving car. Now fast forward to 2011: Even without the cops involved, if a parent does that nowadays, they're gonna get looks of disapproval from everyone passing by. The same thing is now beginning to happen with p/up truck drivers who load children on an open bed. I've seen it myself. Parents transporting their kids to school from the back of a pick-up getting looks of disdain from school staff and the other parents. But the same parent can avoid that disapproval if they could safely fasten their kids in the back seat of a crew cab.
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Last edited by Frankie's Market; June 2nd, 2011 at 11:38 PM.
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  #15  
Old June 3rd, 2011, 12:58 PM
speedtek speedtek is offline
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Default Re: Smaller cars in Hawaii?

The reason cars have gotten bigger is because of Government Safety Guidelines. With airbags and all that other safety equipment that has to be installed.
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Old June 3rd, 2011, 01:03 PM
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The reason cars have gotten bigger is because of Government Safety Guidelines. With airbags and all that other safety equipment that has to be installed.
No way Jose!, otherwise we wouldn't have cars like the SMART or FIT. Nice try blaming safety standards but if ain't gonna fly.
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Old June 3rd, 2011, 01:52 PM
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The reason cars have gotten bigger is because of Government Safety Guidelines. With airbags and all that other safety equipment that has to be installed.
I've been joking out of frustration that cars/trucks have been getting wider and bigger because of the rising obesity epidemic. People (and some of their pets!) can't fit inside smaller vehicles anymore.

And as someone who's currently looking for a small hatchback, I can certainly understand why they're so popular, especially in HI. I mean, seriously, look at our parking spaces. Parking garages have to park us in like sardines to accommodate all the people at various places--and there's STILL not enough parking many times. Every time I go to the Mainland, I feel like I'm parking my car in a mansion, that's how much bigger the spaces seem to be. And f course, then there's the fuel economy...

I prefer a hatchback to a small pickup because I don't have to constantly worry that I adequately tied down whatever I'm trying to haul. Nothing more fun than driving behind someone on the freeway, and then all of a sudden you see a bag come unsecured and blown by the wind directly at your windshield...

Here's some stuff that was rather interesting on the subject of small pickups:

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2010/01...n-detroit.html

And plenty of point already touched upon here are continued in this one:
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/200...mpact-pickups/
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Old October 8th, 2011, 01:10 AM
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Default Re: Smaller cars in Hawaii?

Speedtek is correct about size of vehicles getting bigger for safety. Even the Honda Fit has gotten a bit larger for better crash ratings. Stronger B-Pillers allow for greater roll-over protection. Bigger butts and active rear headrests to reduce rear-end injuries.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) has mandated that all 2011 vehicles must pass higher safety marks than in 2010. It is for that reason is why the 2011 Toyota Camry which for years had an overall 5-star safety rating was given only 3-stars for their 2011 model year. Honda on the other hand got an overall 5-star safety rating.

Stronger steel (59% stronger) on the front and rear of the car as well as larger B-Pillars (for NHTSA side impact) meant larger girths to handle the added steel and crumple zones to minimize impact entry into the passenger cabin. These design changes made the vehicle wider and taller.

Larger diameter tires also allowed for more distance per tire rotation giving newer model year cars better fuel economy. Larger diameters means bigger wheel wells. To accomodate a better ride on larger wheels, the wheelbase had to be extended out making the car longer.

So is the Honda Fit less safer than the Honda Accord? No. They are equally safe even against each other due to the designs of the crumple zones and the added benefit of ACE or Advanced Compatibility Engineering that allows frontal kinetic impact force to be distributed around the passenger compartment, not thru it.

Tutu's Honda Insight also incorporates these safety features. The Insight has ACE, the Prius has nothing even close to it. In a head on collision, I'd put my money on the Insight to save my life.

I've sold both Hondas and Toyotas. There is a big difference. That's why my mother is out of her Toyota Matrix and into a Honda Fit.
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Old October 8th, 2011, 03:39 AM
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Default Re: Smaller cars in Hawaii?

Craig...did I read somewhere that all 2011 Insights come equipped with ESC, including the LX? When I leased my 2010 I got the EX specifically because it had ESC when the LX didn't. The salesman tried to tell me the ESC wasn't important because we don't drive in snow. Bull-honkies, I told him...I want ESC! A week after I got the car I had to do a very fast, hard swerve to avoid being hit by a car and was so thankful for the ESC, whether or not it came into play! Lovin' my Insight and will probably get another one in 21 months!
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Old October 8th, 2011, 01:57 PM
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Default Re: Smaller cars in Hawaii?

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Craig...did I read somewhere that all 2011 Insights come equipped with ESC, including the LX? When I leased my 2010 I got the EX specifically because it had ESC when the LX didn't. The salesman tried to tell me the ESC wasn't important because we don't drive in snow. Bull-honkies, I told him...I want ESC! A week after I got the car I had to do a very fast, hard swerve to avoid being hit by a car and was so thankful for the ESC, whether or not it came into play! Lovin' my Insight and will probably get another one in 21 months!
ESC is the industry standard for Electronic Stability Control. Honda calls it VSC for Vehicle Stability Control. And yes the 2010 model year LX Insight lacked that feature. Honda realized that was not in line with their philosophy of "Safety for Everyone" and has incorporated it in all their models from the base line Fit to the Fully loaded Pilot Touring and the Odyssey Touring Elite. VSC is offered as standard on all 2011 and 2012 model year Insights as well.

VSC is critically important. So important that the NHTSA will be mandating them in all future automobiles along with Daytime Running Lights (both of which are standard on most Honda vehicles and all 2011 and later model years.
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  #21  
Old October 9th, 2011, 09:31 PM
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Default Re: Smaller cars in Hawaii?

I bought a 99 conversion van, captains chair, sofa that changes to a bed, etc. Love it, not hurting too bad keeping 50 or 60 bucks in it and even playfully daydreaming about shipping it to Oahu and just parking wherever when I need some zzzz's. Any idea's how long I would be able to do that before having to give up and rent a place?
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  #22  
Old December 26th, 2011, 01:29 AM
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Question Re: Smaller cars in Hawaii?

Anyone own a Kia Soul?
My wife and I are considering getting a 2011 or 2010.
I like the utility factor of the large hatchback area with back seats down, fuel economy...

Any pointers or reviews would be appreciated!
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  #23  
Old December 26th, 2011, 03:03 AM
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Default Re: Smaller cars in Hawaii?

Have you checked edmunds.com, MM?
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  #24  
Old December 26th, 2011, 12:16 PM
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Default Re: Smaller cars in Hawaii?

I think I would not be interested in this vehicle because of the stupid dancing rodent commercials. When we're out and about and spot a SOUL, the comment is: "Look! A rat car!"
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  #25  
Old December 26th, 2011, 08:52 PM
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Default Re: Smaller cars in Hawaii?

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Originally Posted by Menehune Man View Post
Anyone own a Kia Soul?
My wife and I are considering getting a 2011 or 2010.
I like the utility factor of the large hatchback area with back seats down, fuel economy...

Any pointers or reviews would be appreciated!
The Scion xB would be its most direct form factor competitor. I think you are shopping for a pre-own? If new, then look at the 2012 model because they upgraded the engine and trans so it gets more power with better mpg. Happy car shopping!
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