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Old September 1st, 2008, 10:41 AM
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Default Sarah Palin - pros & cons

A questionaire was sent to all Alaska Gubernatorial candidates in the 2006 election. The following question was asked:

11. Are you offended by the phrase ďUnder GodĒ in the Pledge of Allegiance? Why or why not?

Sarah Palin answered on her questionaire with the following:

"Not on your life. If it was good enough for the founding fathers, its good enough for me and Iíll fight in defense of our Pledge of Allegiance."

Someone needs to take Sarah aside and whisper in her ear: "SARAH! The Pledge of Allegiance was written in 1892 by a Baptist minister. The words "under God" were added in 1954 by the Legislature. The Founding Fathers are recognized from the period in the late 18th century. They had nothing to do with the Pledge of Allegiance!"

I hope Sarah Palin is never asked to spell potato!!!!

It appears that Sarah Palin's developmental maturity is stuck in high school. Her vocabulary is high school, her knowledge of world and governemental affairs is high school level, and at times her personal appearance is straight out of GREASE. At least this weekend, she had the "naughty librarian" look.

So Sarah Palin really doesn't know what the Vice President does. She thinks she has international policy experience because her state is next to Russia. She believes that being president of the PTA is appropriate experience to be Vice President of the USA. Couple this with John McCain who graduated 3rd from the bottom of his class at Annapolis.

And we haven't even begun to investigate in depth the abuse of gubernatorial powers, cover ups, and lies charges.

You certainly can't accuse the GOP of being intellectuals. The GOP is being consistent with first Bush/Cheney and now McCain/Palin.

Will it ever end?
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Old September 1st, 2008, 11:50 AM
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Default Re: Sarah Palin - pros & cons

Sarah Palin addresses the Alaskan Independence Party convention
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Old September 1st, 2008, 12:17 PM
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Default Re: Sarah Palin - pros & cons

This is very funny. She likes Ron Paul for President. This should make tunnl happy.
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Old September 1st, 2008, 03:38 PM
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Default Re: Sarah Palin - pros & cons

In that same 2006 questionnaire, Palin was asked:

3. Will you support funding for abstinence-until-marriage education instead of for explicit sex-education programs, school-based clinics, and the distribution of contraceptives in schools?

SP: Yes, the explicit sex-ed programs will not find my support.

Well folks. I think we all now have ample evidence of how devastatingly effective a just-say-no-to-sex education is.
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Old September 1st, 2008, 04:16 PM
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Default Re: Sarah Palin - pros & cons

In all fairness, while I agree that abstinence-only sex-ed does not work, neither do most of the safe-sex models where education about contraception is also provided. In just about all instances of both forms of sex-ed, sexual activity dips steeply immediately after the instruction but gradually rises back to general levels. The studies tend to be very short, however, and sample sizes quite small (parents are eager to have their kids in programs, but not so eager to have their kids answer the surveys that these studies involve).

The most effective programs include involvement by community groups (which could be church groups or secular groups), the local media, parents, and educators, in a multi-pronged approach that covers sex itself, disease prevention, and pregnancy.

The biggest problem is that there is a disconnect between what some people think sex education should be and what others think it should be, and you can hear it in the tone of even the posts here and in the other VP thread. It is easy to mock the abstinence-only contingent and to make it look stupid because their ideas don't lead to lower rates of teen pregnancy. However, abstinence-with-contraceptive-ed endorsers typically have as their main goal a decrease in STDs and pregnancies, while abstinence-only folks have as their main goal abstinence.

This is a HUGE difference in philosophies, and while the educator in me sees the PRACTICAL advantage of contraceptive education (that doesn't sound right, the way I just worded it), my heart is with those who wish their kids would wait until they're married. I've been mocked for my own stance on this, but fine: I can take it.

It is sooooo easy to point to one family and say, "Ha! Your plan didn't work!" but teenagers are teenagers; some of them are going to get pregnant unexpectedly and some of them are going to wait until they are better equipped for sex before they become that intimate with someone, and we do everything we can as parents and educators to help them make the best decisions, but ultimately the decisions are their own.

I know this is somewhat off topic, but I'm becoming very uncomfortable with what sounds like GLEE at worst and understandable schadenfreude at best at what cannot be an easy situation for the people involved.
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Old September 1st, 2008, 05:06 PM
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Default Re: Sarah Palin - pros & cons

Quote:
Originally Posted by scrivener View Post
I know this is somewhat off topic, but I'm becoming very uncomfortable with what sounds like GLEE at worst and understandable schadenfreude at best at what cannot be an easy situation for the people involved.
Everybody's entitled to their opinion. Wolf Blitzer and his colleagues on CNN were discussing the pros-and-cons of abstinence-only education in the context of what is happening with Sarah Palin's family. Personally, I don't think commentators supporting a more explicit education need apologize for emphatically stating their case in the midst of what must be a very difficult time in the Palin household. YVMV, as I'm sure it may. And that's cool. You'll get no condemnation from me for disagreeing. But I don't think discussion and debate of this vital topic should suddenly be "pussy-footed" upon because of just one particular teen getting pregnant, as high profile as that teen has suddenly become based upon a fateful decision that her mother made to step into the national stage.
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Old September 1st, 2008, 05:14 PM
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Default Re: Sarah Palin - pros & cons

Breaking news: Sarah Palin has just hired a private attorney to defend her in the Alaskan Legistature's Troopergate investigation. Hmmm, looks like this scandal may be a little more serious that what it was earlier portrayed to be. Yet another sign that John McCain's veep selection was not adequately vetted.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5h...0SHtgD92U5TQO1
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Old September 1st, 2008, 05:25 PM
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Default Re: Sarah Palin - pros & cons

Quote:
Originally Posted by scrivener View Post
I know this is somewhat off topic, but I'm becoming very uncomfortable with what sounds like GLEE at worst and understandable schadenfreude at best at what cannot be an easy situation for the people involved.
Scrivener, you are free to spin this whichever way you want, but nothing in my posts in this thread discusses the "pregnancy." I have already stated in another thread that the 'pregnancy" issue is a sad one for the teenager. It is her mother, Sarah Palin, who needs to be held accountable for putting her career ahead of her daughter's well being.

If this discussion of the potential next Vice President of the USA makes you feel uncomfortable you might not want to read these threads anymore. It may sound like GLEE to you for people to ask and discuss honest questions about the qualifications and background of a vice presidential candidate, but that is a necessary part of the vetting process that was clearly not done by McCain and his staff. So spin away.

Tell us why you think Sarah Palin is a good candidate. I'd like to hear your reasoning. That's what this thread is about.
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Old September 1st, 2008, 05:30 PM
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Default Re: Sarah Palin - pros & cons

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie's Market View Post
Breaking news: Sarah Palin has just hired a private attorney to defend her in the Alaskan Legistature's Troopergate investigation. Hmmm, looks like this scandal may be a little more serious that what it was earlier portrayed to be. Yet another sign that John McCain's veep selection was not adequately vetted.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5h...0SHtgD92U5TQO1
I don't think the hiring of an attorney in of itself is sufficient to base an assumption that this scandal will become bigger than what the MSM have made it out to be. According to her wikipedia entry, she doesn't have a Juris Doctorate herself, so hiring a (good) attorney is prudent. Interesting trivia -- she spent one semester at Hawaii Pacific University.

Don't get me wrong -- I still don't trust her.
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Old September 1st, 2008, 05:50 PM
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Default Re: Sarah Palin - pros & cons

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I don't think the hiring of an attorney in of itself is sufficient to base an assumption that this scandal will become bigger than what the MSM have made it out to be. According to her wikipedia entry, she doesn't have a Juris Doctorate herself, so hiring a (good) attorney is prudent.
A fair enough observation. As you say, hiring a private practice attorney is a prudent move. But at the same time, it does show that this Alaskan state investigation is serious and not some frivolous matter that will just quietly fade away.

Even if Palin is eventually cleared of any wrongdoing when the investigation is completed, its net effect on the McCain/Palin ticket is negative as it adds a lot of noise and distraction to the message of their campaign.

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Interesting trivia -- she spent one semester at Hawaii Pacific University.
Hey, whaddya know! A fellow Sea Warrior.

Be that as it may, she still doesn't get my vote.
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Old September 1st, 2008, 06:10 PM
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Default Re: Sarah Palin - pros & cons

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie's Market View Post
A fair enough observation. As you say, hiring a private practice attorney is a prudent move. But at the same time, it does show that this Alaskan state investigation is serious and not some frivolous matter that will just quietly fade away.

Even if Palin is eventually cleared of any wrongdoing when the investigation is completed, its net effect on the McCain/Palin ticket is negative as it adds a lot of noise and distraction to the message of their campaign.
I wonder if it's bad enough to resign over? The fact that a VP candidate of a major political party is even under investigation must be a first in the history of this country.

With those photos of her waving around a firearm, she reminds me of Aaron Burr. Cheney should have come to mind first

Last edited by Vanguard; September 1st, 2008 at 06:14 PM.
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Old September 1st, 2008, 06:47 PM
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From the ABC News blog, there were a couple of comments there that I wanted to share.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpu...-on-brist.html

COUNTRY FIRST, FAMILY SECOND
At age 44, Sarah Palin is still very capable of having more children herself. If elected as VP, and if she finds herself suddenly President: what if she also finds herself pregnant yet again? Clearly birth control is NOT something this family supports. And this family has proven that their "Abstinence Only" ideals DO NOT WORK, especially for them!
Having a lot of children does not a family make! Itís fairly common knowledge that when a teenage child becomes pregnant, usually something is missing in the family. Usually the case is that mom and/or dad are not all that available as parents to their children.

But maybe Palin and McCain are showing the world that a Man can handle a large family on his own while his other half is busy running the White House. Proving that the 'traditional' family that conservatives always we all must strive for is really not necessary. A man can do it alone. Sounds to me like itís a fairly easy step from that stance to the one that says gays can raise children. After all, what children really need is a responsible and loving adult at home to raise them. Right Sarah?

How does McCain and Palin think that ANY parent, mom or dad, can deal with a family of 5 children that include a son freshly deployed overseas as a soldier in an ugly war, a daughter dealing with adolescence, another in grade school, a new-born infant with downs-syndrome and an unmarried teenager pregnant with their grandchild to be born just as before inauguration of the highest offices in the world???? PLUS DEAL WITH: Russia, Iran, North Korea, Columbia, Darfur, China, Iraq, Afghanistan, Al Qaeda, the Taliban, Hurricanes, terrorists, nuclear proliferation, oil crisis, house markets failures, bank failures, global warming (just to name a few very real issues) and God Knows what else will be throw at the world over the next four years???

Who can deal with all that at the same time? NOBODY. And if Sarah finds herself in the fairly likely position of Commander in Chief, she will be faced with some VERY DIFFICULT decisions: the needs of her young and expanding family and the needs of the turbulent and ever-changing world.

No one should have to make that choice. And no one should suffer for whichever choice she makes. Her family deserves the attention they require from BOTH parents and this country and the world deserve the attention we all require from our leader.

Pretty simple really, Sarah Palin is years from being ready to be President of the United States. Maybe in 2016, at age 50 and with a smaller immediate household, she can manage to be a good parent and a good president but today, she obviously cannot be good at both at the same time.

Posted by: Paul Palmer | Sep 1, 2008 5:11:01 PM


I am a working Christian mother and I have been listening to FOBT for decades.

My issue is not with Palin's daughter it is with her mother. There is NO WAY that I would subject my family to this level of scrutiny given the challenges that they face:

1st: She just gave birth 4 months ago to a baby that has Down's Syndrome and within weeks was back at work. Who was taking care of the child? Who was breastfeeding, nurturing and working to ensure that this baby could maximize their potential. Who was taking care of her other 4 children that welcomed an adorable little boy in their hearts that would face challenges that will affect them all.

2nd: The 17 year old daughter is now pregnant for 5 months and it is bad enough that she is the Governor's daughter and that would put her in the headlines in Alaska. However, her MOTHER has now accepted the nomination for Vice President WHILE she is pregnant and could possibly take the oath of office when she is giving birth or shortly thereafter. Who is going to help this frightened high school senior through this? Who is going to teach her how to be a mother given that she is just a child-- the Vice President of the united states.....??? Who is going to dry her tears and teach her how to change diapers? Who is going to teach her how to be a woman? "Focus on the Family?????"" There is no focus for Palin on her own family--- that is clear.

3rd: How could you say yes to the "opportunity of a lifetime" when you need to say yes to the call of God on your life to be a MOTHER first and a politician second. The opportunity of Palin's life is to look at the challenges and make the decision to nurture and care for her family.

McCain's judgement is horrific and he definately is pandering to women and to Christians. Dr. Dobson should be ashamed of himself... the child is not the issue--- everyone does make mistakes. Palin is definately making a mistake-- she is neglecting her first priority her children. God help her.

Posted by: Rhonda | Sep 1, 2008 6:53:49 PM


As a final note, it should be said that Paul and Rhonda are not "liberal bloggers" who are in the tank for Obama. They are Christians who won't buy into Dr. James Dobson's spin on this latest revelation surrounding the Palin family. And if you take the time to read some of the other comments, you'll find that they're not alone in expressing disenchantment with Focus On The Family's response to this news story.

Last edited by Frankie's Market; September 1st, 2008 at 07:00 PM.
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Old September 1st, 2008, 06:49 PM
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Default Re: Sarah Palin - pros & cons



I think it's great to see a women that is attractive as well as smart representing America instead of the nasty looking old bags that Clinton put in his cabinet. John McCain has good taste.

Last edited by AlohaKine; September 1st, 2008 at 06:52 PM.
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Old September 1st, 2008, 07:02 PM
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Default Re: Sarah Palin - pros & cons

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie's Market View Post
From the ABC News blog, there were a couple of comments there that I wanted to share.



McCain's judgement is horrific and he definately is pandering to women and to Christians.
Posted by: Rhonda | Sep 1, 2008 6:53:49 PM[/I]

Paul and Rhonda, well said.
What's wrong with that. Should John McCain act all sexist so women don't want to vote for him? Does that also mean that Walter Mondale was "pandering" in 1984 when he had a women selected as his VP running mate?

As for Christians, they a major voting block within the Republican community. You can't just shaft them as a Republican and expect to win.
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Old September 1st, 2008, 07:58 PM
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It's very telling about us, as a nation, that we spend so much effort discussing the physical appearance of a major political candidate. That's why we haven't had a female president yet.
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As for Christians, they a major voting block within the Republican community. You can't just shaft them as a Republican and expect to win.
True - but don't forget that Christians make up a large part of Democratic voters as well (despite the GOP's efforts to portray the party's members as godless).

As for pandering to the female vote - if that's what the GOP is doing, they are in for a surprise. Women, as a group, are not so easy to manipulate.

Last edited by Leo Lakio; September 1st, 2008 at 08:02 PM.
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Old September 1st, 2008, 08:02 PM
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Default Re: Sarah Palin - pros & cons

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It's very telling about us, as a nation, that we spend so much effort discussing the physical appearance of a major political candidate. That's why we haven't had a female president yet.
Sarah Palin's name wasn't on the ticket earlier.
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Old September 1st, 2008, 08:45 PM
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Default Re: Sarah Palin - pros & cons

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It's very telling about us, as a nation, that we spend so much effort discussing the physical appearance of a major political candidate. That's why we haven't had a female president yet.True - but don't forget that Christians make up a large part of Democratic voters as well (despite the GOP's efforts to portray the party's members as godless).

.
The liberal Democrats also often stand for things like gay marriage, condom distribution in schools, sex ed. classes, abortion rights, removal of God references, and so on that go against the what strict Christians believe in many cases. I'm not saying that I necessarily agree with this but to does seem to be how they feel.

George W. Bush for example REFUSED to meet the Log Cabin [ gay ] Republicans. While I'm sure the Log Cabin folks were not happy with him on that, his much larger Christian Conservative base was likely pleased. See below article.

03/24/00 - "Governor Bush would not meet with Log Cabin Republicans." Ari Fleischer, spokesman for Governor George W. Bush's presidential campaign, to the Wall Street Journal, but "may meet with a group of Republicans who support him and happen to be gay."
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Old September 1st, 2008, 08:47 PM
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Default Re: Sarah Palin - pros & cons

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I think it's great to see a women that is attractive as well as smart representing America
So is that your criteria for what is necessary to represent America? Rather shallow don't you think? As far as being smart....she thinks the Pledge of Allegiance was drafted by the Founding Fathers and she doesn't know what the Vice President does, and we're only beginning to learn the rest about her.

Quote:
instead of the nasty looking old bags that Clinton put in his cabinet.
Now that wasn't very classy.

Quote:
John McCain has good taste.
We're not talking about good taste, we're talking about good judgement, there is a difference. If people are going to be so shallow, then we deserve the leadership we get.
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Old September 1st, 2008, 09:00 PM
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Members of 'Fringe' Alaskan Independence Party Say Palin Was a Member in 90s
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Old September 1st, 2008, 09:13 PM
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It never hurts to be attractive, in particlular in diplomacy with other Governments for example. The concept works on the "reptilian" part of the brain. A person is normally more inclined to go with the plans of someone that is attractive as opposed to a short, bucktoothed, morbidly obese slob with big hairy worts all over his face, with a shovel jaw and hook nose.
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Old September 1st, 2008, 09:24 PM
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A person is normally more inclined to go with the plans of someone that is attractive as opposed to a short, bucktoothed, morbidly obese slob with big hairy worts all over his face, with a shovel jaw and hook nose.
Well that settles it. I guess you won't be following me into battle anywhere!
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Old September 1st, 2008, 09:43 PM
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Well that settles it. I guess you won't be following me into battle anywhere!
I'm not saying it's that only factor but it is one factor.
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Old September 1st, 2008, 10:00 PM
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I'm not saying it's that only factor but it is one factor.
My "looks" is the ONLY factor I have going for me! Other than that, I have no other redeeming social qualities. I'm not even house broken.
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Last edited by matapule; September 1st, 2008 at 10:06 PM.
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Old September 2nd, 2008, 01:14 AM
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It never hurts to be attractive, in particlular in diplomacy with other Governments for example. The concept works on the "reptilian" part of the brain.
Ah - that explains why Margaret Thatcher was such a failure as a politician.
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Old September 2nd, 2008, 01:49 AM
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Ah - that explains why Margaret Thatcher was such a failure as a politician.
I dunno. Maybe she's beautiful by British standards.
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