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  #1  
Old May 21st, 2004, 06:05 PM
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Default Mass Transit...

As traffic problems on Oahu will only get worse, what's YOUR vision of Mass Transit?

Monorail system?
Improved Bus system?
Or??
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  #2  
Old May 21st, 2004, 07:51 PM
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Default Re: Mass Transit...

I've been a longtime supporter of light rail, and I'm absolutely apalled at the unstoppable force and inevitable disaster that is Jeremy's BRT plan. For such a small island, it's hard to believe we handle transportation so badly.

Frankly, I wish we at least had a decent network of bike paths and trails.
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  #3  
Old May 21st, 2004, 11:47 PM
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Default Re: Mass Transit...

I don't know if there's any news on this, but most of the people in my neighborhood in Waipahu works in downtown.

How about having ferries transport people? Maybe 2-3 ferries for the "major" towns (Waipahu, Ewa/Ewa beach, and Kapolei, and/or probably Nanakuli, Maili, and Waianae side). Those ferries will be able to carry people from specific "docks" in the towns, and drop them off at various locations (near Ala Moana, the harbors, and Waikiki).

The only disadvantage I see, is the cost of the ferries and operators, and the ability of people "stomaching" a daily commute on a ferry. It won't be a smooth ride, but it's one alternative.
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  #4  
Old May 22nd, 2004, 05:35 AM
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Default Re: Mass Transit...

Having some kind of rail line sharing the same road as the cars I think is a very dangerous one at least in the first year or two of operation. Having either an elevated or underground line is too expensive to build and operate.

So I guess more and frequent buses.
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  #5  
Old June 11th, 2004, 08:40 AM
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Default Re: Mass Transit...

The big problem is that people here are, for some reason, deathly afraid of walking further than 20 feet from their car to where ever they're going. Evidence? Look at bizzarro vultures at Ala Moana waiting 40 minutes to park close to the center when there are acres of parking on the third deck by Shirokiya and Macy's. Whoa, wait, gotta walk a little. Trains require people to walk at least several blocks to thier destinations. People here won't do it.

Trains are the way to go, frankly. But if they build them, "they" will never come. There are too many lazy people here.

When I lived in Japan, I had to walk 15 minutes from my house to my station, then ride, transfer, walking another 5 minutes (and then ride standing, god forbid, crammed like a sardine), then getting off at the final destination, then walking another 15 minutes to my building -- then lather, rinse, repeat in the evening. And that was a short commute. I knew people who would walk at least a half hour to the station. Some had to bus to the station (not to mention the walk to the bus stop). Some rode bicycles -- now that's a foreign concept.

Oddly enough, people are kinda healthy in Japan.

I routinely walk to assignments in downtown or neighboring areas. I walk for miles for my liquor (never drive when having cocktails). I have serious wonders about people who have aversions to walking.

Super Size me, dammit. And bring it to my table while yer at it.
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  #6  
Old June 11th, 2004, 07:40 PM
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Default Re: Mass Transit...

Quote:
Originally Posted by pzarquon
I've been a longtime supporter of light rail, and I'm absolutely apalled at the unstoppable force and inevitable disaster that is Jeremy's BRT plan. For such a small island, it's hard to believe we handle transportation so badly.

Frankly, I wish we at least had a decent network of bike paths and trails.
I've also been frustrated by how long it's taken to get light rail here.

A limited defense of BRT: In some places where it's been tried, most notably Sao Paulo, Brazil, it's been a great success. Much cheaper to build and maintain than rail; nearly as fast if dedicated lanes are provided. The problem is that you need a critical mass of ridership for this to work - this prevents the dedicated lanes from generating even more auto congestion on the remaining lanes.

IMHO, one of the main difference here is both economic and culture. In Brazil, the average standard of living is lower, the generally lower cost of BRT compared to rail makes a real difference in demand. Secondly, there is no cultural stigma attached to riding the bus as there is in much of the U.S. I do think that there are people here who would ride a light rail but refused to ride a bus, even if there was no difference in speed or convenience.
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  #7  
Old June 12th, 2004, 03:09 PM
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Default Re: Mass Transit...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dick
The big problem is that people here are, for some reason, deathly afraid of walking further than 20 feet from their car to where ever they're going. Evidence? Look at bizzarro vultures at Ala Moana waiting 40 minutes to park close to the center when there are acres of parking on the third deck by Shirokiya and Macy's. Whoa, wait, gotta walk a little. Trains require people to walk at least several blocks to thier destinations. People here won't do it.

Trains are the way to go, frankly. But if they build them, "they" will never come. There are too many lazy people here.

When I lived in Japan, I had to walk 15 minutes from my house to my station, then ride, transfer, walking another 5 minutes (and then ride standing, god forbid, crammed like a sardine), then getting off at the final destination, then walking another 15 minutes to my building -- then lather, rinse, repeat in the evening. And that was a short commute. I knew people who would walk at least a half hour to the station. Some had to bus to the station (not to mention the walk to the bus stop). Some rode bicycles -- now that's a foreign concept.

Oddly enough, people are kinda healthy in Japan.

I routinely walk to assignments in downtown or neighboring areas. I walk for miles for my liquor (never drive when having cocktails). I have serious wonders about people who have aversions to walking.

Super Size me, dammit. And bring it to my table while yer at it.
I'd walk 15 minutes to my destination after getting of a rail system, but I don't that much time to kill walking. My classes start at 8:00, and I catch the 6:15 Rout A bus at the Waipahu Transit. The ride takes me atleast 1 hour, and usually I have to do something before classes start.

One way to alliviate the traffic problems, is either buy a smaller car if your the only one in it, or use your humungous SUV or van to carpool other people to their work.

I don't see why a single person would be driving an Escalade or Navigator like a pimp in NYC. If you have that much money, then move to somewhere closer to your workplace.
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  #8  
Old June 13th, 2004, 06:57 AM
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Default Re: Mass Transit...

One thing with a rail system, is that it would have to have frequent trains, and those trains would have to run on time. For some reason, I can't see that happening in Hawaii. I use Japan as an example only because I used the trains there daily. And I could set my watch by the trains there (unless someone jumped in front of a train - which happened startlingly often). I had it down to a pattern where I could walk from my house and get to my office right on schedule every day. No waiting, no hassles (aside from stuffed trains). The train system there is an art, really. If something efficient and "real" could be set up here, people would probably get into it. I often feel kinda guilty because my job requires me to drive everywhere (for the most part), and I'm often by myself. Thus I drive a small car. There are too many jerks out there driving those stoopid (sic) SUVs for no other reason than to look "cool" and drive something big. Anything over a small car's GVW should require a special licence. I've seen idiots driving these things who take forever just to park in a normal parking space. If you can't handle the vehicle, you shouldn't be driving it. Another idea would be to tax the living crap out of people who drive these things. An SUV tax, if you will - anything over a certain GVW pays triple the taxes. Cripes, I smoke and drink and pay retardo taxes on my vices, why shouldn't these people, too?
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  #9  
Old June 13th, 2004, 07:39 AM
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Default Re: Mass Transit...

Light rail would be wonderful but as the past opinions suggest...people wouldn't use it. And they would never be on time! It's so true that you can set your watch to the rail systems in Japan. You just have to know the schedule and sure enough...the train comes, ON TIME!
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  #10  
Old June 13th, 2004, 07:13 PM
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Default Re: Mass Transit...

"Look at bizzarro vultures at Ala Moana waiting 40 minutes to park close"

Ain't it the truth! I just can't believe some of those motorized-wheel people who drive round and round trying to get a spot where they won't have to walk more than six feet to the store.
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  #11  
Old June 14th, 2004, 07:09 PM
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Default Re: Mass Transit...

No matter what system gets installed, there's gonna be a problem with all the people who live back in valleys or up on ridges. Somehow there has to be a way to get them to the line. For example, I live 1.5 miles up a hill; walking down might not be a problem at 0730, but I'll be damned if I want to walk back up at 1800, probably with some packages from a grocery store.

You need some sort of "park and ride" system, which is/was partially in place for TheBus; I remember working in Mililani and seeing one right across from the National Guard building above the freeway, but it never looked overly full.

I rode some of those Japanese trains and subways, btw. I still remember the "pushers" trying to get you on the cars.
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  #12  
Old June 15th, 2004, 03:48 AM
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Default Re: Mass Transit...

The van that they use for the Mililani Trolley might be useful for feeding the lines, but they have to come more frequently. I think the Milliani one just uses one van to service the route at least during the weekend.
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  #13  
Old June 15th, 2004, 01:37 PM
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Default Re: Mass Transit...

Isn't it fun in Japan...the pushers! Even the elderly aren't polite when it comes to getting onto the train! They push and shove with the best of them! And yet while they're waiting for the trolley here in Waikiki...they wait patiently...no pushing or shoving!
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  #14  
Old June 16th, 2004, 01:08 AM
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Default Re: Mass Transit...

Those japanese people sounds like fun

But I have my watch set for the bus's time (and ironically, its synced with my school's time) and ever since schools breaked for summer, I've been catching the 6:00am Route A bus from the Waipahu Transit with a few seconds to spare.
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  #15  
Old June 16th, 2004, 07:11 AM
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Default Re: Mass Transit...

The "pushers" as they have been referred to on this thread, serve an important purpose. Since the trains must run on schedule, if the doors don't close at the appointed time, the trains will run late. Anyone not in the doorway isn't allowed into the train when the bell rings. Anyone with an appendage in the train is then stuffed in, and any arms or legs sticking out are also subsequently stuffed in (thus, if you want to be on a certain train, it's critical that you get at least a foot in the door so that you'll be stuffed in). It works brilliantly. Of course fights would break out here if that were to happen on a Hawaii train. The whole culture and concept behind commuting is so different. I can honestly say that even were a train system built here, it would never amount to much just because people are lazy and afraid of mass transit. Live too far from the station? Well, how about bicycling there? Live on a hill? Well, I lived on a hill and walked straight up, but found that I was losing weight and gaining energy. Bus systems should be adjusted to feed the rail system and not compete with it. It's that easy. Of course, it would take gridlock and lack of any reasonable parking to get people to "get with the program." Oh wait, I forgot, everyone needs an SUV and needs to be three feet from thier destination. I can only hope Honolulu gets to this point (of critical mass), and soon.
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  #16  
Old June 16th, 2004, 03:06 PM
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Default Re: Mass Transit...

I currently live in Waipahu, near a freeway on ramp, so I have no trouble getting to the freeway and going my merry way. But with all the congestion and (yes, gotta say it) idiot drivers, it's a trying journey. If we had mass transit that was [mostly] on time and relatively hassle-free, I would definitely do that to/from work. Back in high school and most of college, I walked to the bus stop. I've done 15-30 minute walks to the bus stop and even 1+ hour(s) from my origin to destination. I have no problem with walking, but frankly, if I don't have to deal with it, I won't.

I want the least amount of hassle, which means I hate the vulture thing at parking lots. I'd rather park farther away where I can have empty stalls on either side of my car, than circling or squatting up front and causing a mess.

So yes, light rail with park and ride stations would be kind of cool. And it would give me a great reason to get into MP3s and buy myself an MP3 player.
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  #17  
Old August 14th, 2004, 02:45 PM
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Default Re: Mass Transit...

Quote:
Originally Posted by skchai
IMHO, one of the main difference here is both economic and culture. In Brazil, the average standard of living is lower, the generally lower cost of BRT compared to rail makes a real difference in demand. Secondly, there is no cultural stigma attached to riding the bus as there is in much of the U.S. I do think that there are people here who would ride a light rail but refused to ride a bus, even if there was no difference in speed or convenience.
I agree wholeheartedly. The problem is that in Hawaii, we think like mainlanders. We think having a car is requsite to being a full fledged human, and that if you don't have one, you're of a lesser caste. There needs to be a major sea change in the way we all see cars; not as a right, but as an indulgence.
One way is for the government to encourage virtue. The way I see it, if you don't drive, you're giving of yourself to make life better for everyone else (now, and in the future), so the C&C or the state should make doing the right thing more appealing. I.e., tax credits, less inhumane options for masstransit, and a safer network of bike routes and trails to bring cyclists out of the margins and into the mainstream.
But then again, how's that going to happen when big business owns the state house and our governor's family got rich off selling cars?
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  #18  
Old August 16th, 2004, 02:55 PM
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Default Re: Mass Transit...

There was a time in Japan (still may be enforced) where you could only own a car if you had a private place to park one, and that cars over 10-years old were penalized to the point where it would be uneconomical to own one.

Basically Japan made it very difficult to own a car. I think we need toll booths at the major arteries then at the same time lower the state taxes on a gallon of gas to compensate for the toll costs.

I hated taking the bus because there's typically no seats left for the morning commute. This may sound ironic but to get people to ride the bus, you have to get more buses on the road. The two-fold result is that everyone is guaranteed a comfortable ride to work and there would be so many buses on the road, I'd probably want to catch the bus instead of having to deal with them with my car.

They need buses arriving every 5-minutes so if you miss the bus, you won't be 15-20 minutes late for work if you have to catch the next.

Here's an idea that may work for East Bound commuters. Buy a cheap decent car, leave it in town to drive to appointments or emergencies and take the bus in and out each day. Yes that may sound a bit much, but think about how much you'll save on gas. Catch the bus to your friend's home where your car is parked. Take your car and use it while in town. Park it back at the home and take the bus back to Kapolei. That could work if a rail system were in place as well.
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  #19  
Old August 17th, 2004, 03:50 AM
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Default Re: Mass Transit...

Quote:
Originally Posted by craigwatanabe
They need buses arriving every 5-minutes so if you miss the bus, you won't be 15-20 minutes late for work if you have to catch the next.
If you happen to live and work in the area bounded by Alaa Park on the west side, Ala Moana Blvd. on the south side, Kalakuka Ave. on the east side and South King Street on the north side then the various routes that come and go through that section of town does provide that 5 to 10 minute window between buses at a stop.

Thing is every since the Express buses came into service it's been kind of rare for me to be standing in a bus.
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Old August 18th, 2004, 06:33 PM
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Helen, it's because I'm a male and you're not. That's the unwritten rule of bus etiquette, able-bodied middle aged men must give up their seat to everybody else. Violating this will result in many a stink eye.

One female newpaper reporter did a story on taking the bus to work. She said it was a pleasant experience where she was able to read the paper or a book or set her schedule for the day. Yeah sure if you're sitting down. Try doing that standing shoulder to shoulder to someone next to you who doesn't believe in deoderant or loves to splash on Chanel No 5 by the bucket.

Then the AC's either on full blast or not on at all. You sweat then freeze then you get off the bus, tell your boss your sick and puking your guts out from the nausea and take the bus back home doubling the experience.

If you're sitting, you're not rocking hence you're not getting sick.

Helen I'm glad your experiences on TheBus is a good one, for me, I paid for my car, I'm using it, I have a great time driving my BMW to work in it's climate controlled environment and a cup holder right next to me (do they have those on the bus?)
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  #21  
Old August 18th, 2004, 11:40 PM
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Default Re: Mass Transit...

Quote:
Originally Posted by craigwatanabe
One female newpaper reporter did a story on taking the bus to work. She said it was a pleasant experience where she was able to read the paper or a book or set her schedule for the day. Yeah sure if you're sitting down. Try doing that standing shoulder to shoulder to someone next to you who doesn't believe in deoderant or loves to splash on Chanel No 5 by the bucket.

Then the AC's either on full blast or not on at all. You sweat then freeze then you get off the bus, tell your boss your sick and puking your guts out from the nausea and take the bus back home doubling the experience.
Oh yeah (the latter part). Especially if your sitting near where the air comes out, your arm might be freezing, then warm, off and on. I gotten used to it, but that is irratating, when the AC goes off, you'd have to turn down your music because its quiet, but when it goes back on a few seconds later, you're scrambling to turn up your music to listen to it.

And what about the people who lifts their arm to reach the bars on the top. Especially if your short, and your nose is right in their armpit if you turn towards them. That alone is reason to wake up an hour early to catch an almost empty bus.
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  #22  
Old August 19th, 2004, 03:08 AM
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Default Re: Mass Transit...

Quote:
Originally Posted by craigwatanabe
Helen, it's because I'm a male and you're not. That's the unwritten rule of bus etiquette, able-bodied middle aged men must give up their seat to everybody else. Violating this will result in many a stink eye.
No one is giving up a seat for me to sit on because there are free seats on the bus. Ever since the Express buses became available one can find seat on the bus. Most times you sit alone.

Yeah there are times when it gets crowded you have to stand up but it's been kind of rare.
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  #23  
Old August 23rd, 2004, 01:05 AM
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Default Re: Mass Transit...

Quote:
Originally Posted by helen
No one is giving up a seat for me to sit on because there are free seats on the bus. Ever since the Express buses became available one can find seat on the bus. Most times you sit alone.

Yeah there are times when it gets crowded you have to stand up but it's been kind of rare.
On the A?

Try going rush hour time (6-8am) and by the time you get to Kalihi, there isn't any seats left.

And Waipahu High School kids are so darn lazy. I live near 7-11/Jack-in-the-box along Farrington Hwy, and when the buses came along that side, there were some high schoolers waiting for 30 minutes just to take a 5 minute bus ride!!!

Oh yeah, I found a linkto show an example of the Japanese subway pushers one poster started. Man, those people do fit in there like sardines.
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  #24  
Old August 23rd, 2004, 01:49 AM
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Default Re: Mass Transit...

I used to catch the bus on 18th Avenue and was able to take a seat. However by the time that bus reaches the McCully area, you are giving up your seat and my stop was across the Kodak Building to get to work. Back then I learned that there are your "regular's" and if you sit in "their" seat they get pretty huffy about it.

The first time I sat in this guy's personal seat on the bus, I heard a hushed, "Oh shit he's gonna get it" from several passengers. Next thing I know this guy gets on and see's me in his seat and starts screaming at me. I
ignore him and he sits behind me berating me for stealing his seat. I was about ready to pound this guy as I turned around wondering what his problem was when he suddenly wimped out and turned the other way. Nope riding the bus was not a pleasant experience for me since I had to see this guy every morning I rode that freezer to work.

And Helen, not everybody has the luxury of an Express bus where as you say it is a more comfortable experience.
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  #25  
Old August 23rd, 2004, 02:30 AM
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Default Re: Mass Transit...

Quote:
Originally Posted by adri1456
On the A?
Yes on the A and yeah I know you take the route in the opposite direction from me so this is a case of your mileage may vary kind of thing.
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