Electrical costs for Hawaii's public schools

[craigwatanabe]

I didn't know where to put this so here it is.

I was looking at my patio last night and I have two flourescent fixtures holding two 40-watt tubes each. On any given night both lights are on for a duration of maybe five hours. Each fixture burns 80-watts per hour so two fixtures burn 160-watts per hour. Wow no wonder my electric bill from HELCO runs almost $450 a month so I turned off one of the two fixtures and immediately saved 50% off of that particular lighting situation.

Then I read today's SB letter to the editor about how Hawaii's DOE schools are trying to reduce their electrical demands and welcome the use of photovoltaic panels to reduce their electrical costs.

Have you ever been in a classroom? How many flourescent lights are on for roughly 9-10 hours a day? Those long 8-foot tubes must consume at least what 80-watts each! And there's at least four per fixture and I'd imagine at least 10 fixtures per room. That's 2400 watts per hour or almost half a megawatt per day per classroom! And that's only lighting! Couple that with a computer room with ten computers running 400-watt power supplies. In an 8-hour day that can amount to 32,000 watts.

Ways to reduce their electrical demands? How about using the more energy efficient CFC flourescent bulbs. A 7-watt CFC bulb puts out the equivalent of a 60-watt incandescent bulb. How about using laptops instead of power hungry desktops. A typical laptop power supply uses around 90-watts of electricity per hour as opposed to a typical desktop computer with a 400-watt power supply. Never mind the monitor.

Kamehameha on the Big Island uses laptops then stores them away in vaults so if there is a break in the computers are safe.

Speaking of conserving power, I wonder if the state of Hawaii when tabulating the cost of replacing those thousands of feet of copper wire from freeway lighting is also figuring the amount they're saving because those lights aren't on so they can't be using electricity so they must be saving the state a bunch of kala for every night these lights remain off.

Once I mentioned to my friend as we flew over Honolulu one night that if the state and c&c of Honolulu were to shut down every other street light on Oahu, their energy bill on street lighting would be reduced by 50%. That's a hugh savings right there.

[pzarquon]

Re: Electrical costs for Hawaii's public schools

Most modern construction make much better use of natural light. Costco's ginormous warehouses make a big deal of their conservation measures, and sure enough, a lot of the time they need only a fraction of the lights that are installed.

And while older school facilities may very well be overbuilt with light fixtures, in my childrens' classes at least they generally keep half, if not all, the overhead fluorescents off. I'm certain it's a power conservation measure and I'm happy to see it. As long as my kids aren't trying to read in the dark!

Once I mentioned to my friend as we flew over Honolulu one night that if the state and c&c of Honolulu were to shut down every other street light on Oahu, their energy bill on street lighting would be reduced by 50%. That's a hugh savings right there.

Well, all that savings would be wiped out pretty quickly by the very first lawsuit from someone who drives off a dark patch of road...

I remember the resistance to switching to the lower-power, orange sodium street lights from the old, bright whites. I wonder how much energy was ultimately saved with that massive conversion, and meanwhile whether safety or visibility was measurably affected by the different filaments.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Electrical costs for Hawaii's public schools

Well, all that savings would be wiped out pretty quickly by the very first lawsuit from someone who drives off a dark patch of road...

I remember the resistance to switching to the lower-power, orange sodium street lights from the old, bright whites. I wonder how much energy was ultimately saved with that massive conversion, and meanwhile whether safety or visibility was measurably affected by the different filaments.

That's what headlights are for, and if even those don't help then I'd hate to imagine sharing the nighttime roadways with them. Here on the Big Island and even on Maui there are lots of highway roads that aren't lit up. When flying over Honolulu or just look down at Honolulu from the many ridgelines on the Koolau at night you'll see an amazing sight, the Honolulu City Lights as depicted in that song of same. Wow is the factor when beholding that sight. But wow is the amount when you factor the amount HECO must be generating to keep those lights lit up then you see the waste. We talk about our reliance on foreign oil then you look at the city's skyline at night and you ask yourself, "are we really doing enough to curb our appetite for energy?"

Here on the Big Island where energy costs are significantly higher than on Oahu we do as much as we can to reduce our electrical needs. At Home Depot (where I work part time) I sell a ton of power inverters and generators to people living off the grid. They ask me if we sell photo-voltaic panels and I tell them that I wish we did but sadly we don't. I push gas dryers and water heaters both regular and on-demand, because of the energy savings they will see with gas and yeah I used to work for the Gas Company for over 22-years, but that's because I believe in the energy savings gas has to offer over electric.

I'm glad your kid's school is turning off as much as they can to conserve electricity, that's a lot of lighting up on those ceilings.

[joshuatree]

Re: Electrical costs for Hawaii's public schools

I didn't know where to put this so here it is.

I was looking at my patio last night and I have two flourescent fixtures holding two 40-watt tubes each. On any given night both lights are on for a duration of maybe five hours. Each fixture burns 80-watts per hour so two fixtures burn 160-watts per hour. Wow no wonder my electric bill from HELCO runs almost $450 a month so I turned off one of the two fixtures and immediately saved 50% off of that particular lighting situation.

Then I read today's SB letter to the editor about how Hawaii's DOE schools are trying to reduce their electrical demands and welcome the use of photovoltaic panels to reduce their electrical costs.

Have you ever been in a classroom? How many flourescent lights are on for roughly 9-10 hours a day? Those long 8-foot tubes must consume at least what 80-watts each! And there's at least four per fixture and I'd imagine at least 10 fixtures per room. That's 2400 watts per hour or almost half a megawatt per day per classroom! And that's only lighting! Couple that with a computer room with ten computers running 400-watt power supplies. In an 8-hour day that can amount to 32,000 watts.

Ways to reduce their electrical demands? How about using the more energy efficient CFC flourescent bulbs. A 7-watt CFC bulb puts out the equivalent of a 60-watt incandescent bulb. How about using laptops instead of power hungry desktops. A typical laptop power supply uses around 90-watts of electricity per hour as opposed to a typical desktop computer with a 400-watt power supply. Never mind the monitor.

Kamehameha on the Big Island uses laptops then stores them away in vaults so if there is a break in the computers are safe.

Speaking of conserving power, I wonder if the state of Hawaii when tabulating the cost of replacing those thousands of feet of copper wire from freeway lighting is also figuring the amount they're saving because those lights aren't on so they can't be using electricity so they must be saving the state a bunch of kala for every night these lights remain off.

Once I mentioned to my friend as we flew over Honolulu one night that if the state and c&c of Honolulu were to shut down every other street light on Oahu, their energy bill on street lighting would be reduced by 50%. That's a hugh savings right there.

I agree, I think they can do a lot more to cut power consumption. I've seen new skylights that basically consist of a parabolic mirror that follows the sun and focuses this light into fiber optic tubings which can then be transported to where you want the light to diffuse. It can transport the light as far as two stories which I think pretty much covers almost all of Hawaii's school buildings. Don't think I've seen many three stories and up for public schools. With the abundant sunshine we get, I don't see why this isn't a worthy investment. Imagine not having to turn on any artificial lights for at least 8 hours a day?

As for street lighting, I wonder why they even bothered to light up the freeways. You can drive for miles and miles on freeways in California and it's not lit at all, they use a lot of reflectors on the road and your lighting comes from the car's headlights. I remember sections of Likelike and Pali before having any street lighting and people did fine traversing those roads. Spend the money on more reflectors. Not unless there's some crazy blackmarket for reflectors, I doubt those thieves would want those.

[joshuatree]

Re: Electrical costs for Hawaii's public schools

or better yet, why don't the city just spend the replacement money on this, it'll pay for itself in power savings

http://www.solarlighting.com/product...LV_series.html

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Electrical costs for Hawaii's public schools

or better yet, why don't the city just spend the replacement money on this, it'll pay for itself in power savings

Maybe, but I doubt it. Batteries are a maintenance item and they cost money too. Where those kinds of things really work is in saving having to run a power line to that location. It can get expensive.

Seems to me I remember an article awhile back in the newspaper that mainland county people expressed surprise that Oahu was lighting ALL of it's roads. The mainland doesn't.

Since more politicians are making noise on alternate energy and stuff, maybe it's time we point out we need start by re-thinking out power usage.

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Electrical costs for Hawaii's public schools

I didn't know where to put this so here it is.

I was looking at my patio last night and I have two flourescent fixtures holding two 40-watt tubes each. On any given night both lights are on for a duration of maybe five hours. Each fixture burns 80-watts per hour so two fixtures burn 160-watts per hour. Wow no wonder my electric bill from HELCO runs almost $450 a month so I turned off one of the two fixtures and immediately saved 50% off of that particular lighting situation.

80W x 5 hours x 30 days = 12,000 W-H or 12 KW-Hour

12 KW-H x 20¢/KW-H (an outrageous price, but I don't know what we're paying now) = $2.40

I think you need to look somewhere else for an explanation on that $450 a month bill.

[Hellbent]

Re: Electrical costs for Hawaii's public schools

im glad someone else wrote in with the same idea i had about schools and solar electric panels. now if only a contractor would donate the equipment to the schools for advertising/promotion our schools would be set. well, except for the a/c, books, library hours, etc.

[joshuatree]

Re: Electrical costs for Hawaii's public schools

Maybe, but I doubt it. Batteries are a maintenance item and they cost money too. Where those kinds of things really work is in saving having to run a power line to that location. It can get expensive.

Seems to me I remember an article awhile back in the newspaper that mainland county people expressed surprise that Oahu was lighting ALL of it's roads. The mainland doesn't.

Since more politicians are making noise on alternate energy and stuff, maybe it's time we point out we need start by re-thinking out power usage.

I think it's worth having the city/state do a cost analysis on it. As far as that link shows, the system has a 5 year warranty so I think it's safe to say the batteries themselves will last that long. The solar panels show a 20 year warranty. The issue right now is to figure out a way of perhaps not having to run another power line to these lights. The thieves keep stealing them.

Yeah, it is a surprise why Oahu lights ALL of it's roads. Studies have shown that excessive lighting can actually impair a driver's ability to see clearly at night. Unfortunately, I think people instinctively associate more street lighting to safer roads.

Totally agree on re-thiniking power usage.

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Electrical costs for Hawaii's public schools

our schools would be set. well, except for the a/c,

I strongly suspect that when the DOE is talking about their electricity costs, it has more to do with A/C then with the lights. A lot of schools are having to use A/C because of the noise, smells, grime and I suspect in some cases because the area around them is building up making the tradewinds less effective then what they used to be.

A/C takes a LOT more power then a few fluorescent lights.

[sppam]

Re: Electrical costs for Hawaii's public schools

Have you ever been in a classroom? How many flourescent lights are on for roughly 9-10 hours a day? Those long 8-foot tubes must consume at least what 80-watts each! And there's at least four per fixture and I'd imagine at least 10 fixtures per room. That's 2400 watts per hour or almost half a megawatt per day per classroom! And that's only lighting! Couple that with a computer room with ten computers running 400-watt power supplies. In an 8-hour day that can amount to 32,000 watts.

I just wanted to say that having worked in one of the older schools I, and several other teachers, tended to turn off the lights in our classrooms during different times of the day. For me, the florescents were too bright. I had done my master's thesis on the physical environment of the classroom...those lights are not the best for you physically to start with. Besides, with the leuvered windows, we had so much natural light coming in by late morning (not to mention the gentle breeze), I'd just start turning down the lights to compensate the difference.

[Hellbent]

Re: Electrical costs for Hawaii's public schools

yes, but from what i understand some schools dont even have a/c, or something like that. so the point i was trying to make is that besides reducing the electricity costs, theres still a/c for classrooms that dont have it and all the other things schools need.

[sppam]

Re: Electrical costs for Hawaii's public schools

You're right. Not all schools have a/c. Ours wasn't one of them (unless you count the office). I did some research into it while doing my thesis to find out the DOE's policy. (It's hard to teach, let alone learn, when it's 90 degrees in the classroom.) In order to get a/c in a classroom, you have to keep track of how many days in a given month your classroom reaches above a certain temp (I want to say 88 degrees...I'm going off of memory). It has to reach that temp or higher for something like 8 or 10 days within one month's time to qualify for a/c. And even then, it's only for the individual classroom.

And then there's the cost. The electric is paid by the school. It has to come from their budget. The budget for my school, and I can imagine many others who are relying on state and federal funds to operate, are already stretched out thinly in trying to keep critical programs going and maintain the school, etc.

[MadAzza]

Re: Electrical costs for Hawaii's public schools

It's hard to teach, let alone learn, when it's 90 degrees in the classroom.

I'm not disagreeing. However ...

One hundred years ago, students and teachers in Hawaii seemed to learn at least as well as the students and teachers of today. And they wore a LOT more clothing back then. I'm always amazed when I look at those old photographs of people in Hawaii -- women wearing long-sleeved long dresses with petticoats, long woolen stockings, lace-up black shoes; men wearing long pants, jackets over their shirts, ties ...

They seemed to do all right. Are we just really wimpy, or spoiled, or what?

[Glen Miyashiro]

Re: Electrical costs for Hawaii's public schools

I think we're spoiled, and wimpy. And we also expect more of ourselves.

I wondered the same thing about Hawaiian businesses -- how in the world did they get anything done with no A/C, let alone no computers?

Part of the answer can be seen in the old buildings in Honolulu. They're tall-ceilinged and airy, with plenty of windows for daylight and ventilation. That was how you built, back then. It helped keep things as cool as feasible -- but it did take up more space. You couldn't cram workers in nearly as tightly as you can today with air conditioned buildings.

And part of the answer is that we didn't expect to get as much done, back then. Things took longer. And if you were to look at the curriculum of a typical school, I'm guessing that it wasn't packed quite as tightly as school curricula are today.