Convert or be killed!...the game

[Miulang]

No, this is not about a call to convert to Islam or die. There is a videogame being sold by WalMart and other stores called "Left Behind: Eternal Forces."

Liberal and progressive Christian groups say a new computer game in which players must either convert or kill non-Christians is the wrong gift to give this holiday season and that Wal-Mart, a major video game retailer, should yank it off its shelves.

...Left Behind: Eternal Forces, a PC game inspired by a series of Christian novels that are hugely popular, especially with teens.

The series by Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins is based on their interpretation of the Bible's Book of Revelation and takes place after the Rapture, when Jesus has taken his people to heaven and left nonbelievers behind to face the Antichrist.

Left Behind Games' president, Jeffrey Frichner, says the game actually is pacifist because players lose "spirit points" every time they gun down nonbelievers rather than convert them. They can earn spirit points again by having their character pray.

"You are fighting a defensive battle in the game," Frichner, whose previous company produced Bible software, said of combatting the Antichrist. "You are a sort of a freedom fighter."

Somehow, I just don't see this ever overtaking the popularity of Doom. Rapture, anyone?

Miulang

[Bard]

Re: Convert or be killed!...the game

Left Behind Games' president, Jeffrey Frichner, says the game actually is pacifist because players lose "spirit points" every time they gun down nonbelievers rather than convert them. They can earn spirit points again by having their character pray.

"You are fighting a defensive battle in the game," Frichner, whose previous company produced Bible software, said of combatting the Antichrist. "You are a sort of a freedom fighter."

Wow, that's awesome, and what do you think would be happening right now if it was a game about Islam instead of Christianity? Replace 'bible' with 'koran' and 'antichrist' with whatever is appropriate... At the very least I bet some game developers would be receiving a call from the FBI.

[timkona]

Re: Convert or be killed!...the game

If the game was rooted in Islam, then we would call it reality.

[Miulang]

Re: Convert or be killed!...the game

If the game was rooted in Islam, then we would call it reality.

Um, Tim, this game IS reality to the Christian Rapturists (and to a somewhat lesser extent to the LDS Church). If you don't accept the deity, then you either get left behind when the end of the world comes or go to hell (or you can get baptized after you're dead to prevent you from going to hell at the end of the world).

Miulang

[timkona]

Re: Convert or be killed!...the game

Funny how I do not see Rapturists or LDS members walking into cafe's wearing TNT vests.

Yet I read daily of the slaughter being perpetrated by Islamists upon their Muslim brethren, or anybody else who is in the way.

Convert or Kill was my catchphrase. Where's my lawyer??

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Convert or be killed!...the game

Convert or Kill was my catchphrase. Where's my lawyer??

I thought you borrowed it from some faith's holy book. Now, where were the posts that had those quotes...?

[Miulang]

Re: Convert or be killed!...the game

Funny how I do not see Rapturists or LDS members walking into cafe's wearing TNT vests.

Yet I read daily of the slaughter being perpetrated by Islamists upon their Muslim brethren, or anybody else who is in the way.

Convert or Kill was my catchphrase. Where's my lawyer??

Given the chance, I'm sure our white supremacist bretheren would be happy to oblige.

The purpose of this game, as the company founder stated, is not so much to kill nonbelievers as it is to CONVERT them. And isn't that the first step that the jihadists use to find suicide bombers?

Miulang

[glossyp]

Re: Convert or be killed!...the game

Um, Tim, this game IS reality to the Christian Rapturists (and to a somewhat lesser extent to the LDS Church). If you don't accept the deity, then you either get left behind when the end of the world comes or go to hell (or you can get baptized after you're dead to prevent you from going to hell at the end of the world).

Miulang

Your grasp of LDS doctrine is awfully weak if that's what you think Mormons believe and you ought to do better research before posting.

[glossyp]

Re: Convert or be killed!...the game

Given the chance, I'm sure our white supremacist bretheren would be happy to oblige.

The purpose of this game, as the company founder stated, is not so much to kill nonbelievers as it is to CONVERT them. And isn't that the first step that the jihadists use to find suicide bombers?

Miulang

The only problem with your conclusion is that nowhere in the Bible (which I suppose must be the preferred religious text of white supremacists, rapturists and the like) are converts who murder non-believers promised 72 virgins and salvation as incentives.

[joshuatree]

Re: Convert or be killed!...the game

Funny how I do not see Rapturists or LDS members walking into cafe's wearing TNT vests.

Yet I read daily of the slaughter being perpetrated by Islamists upon their Muslim brethren, or anybody else who is in the way.

Convert or Kill was my catchphrase. Where's my lawyer??

What about the Crusades or the Inquisitions? Religion in general is nothing but man-made and evil.

[Bard]

Re: Convert or be killed!...the game

It's funny, just today I was talking with my wife about a creepy guy who was talking with her on some forum and started quoting parts of The Bible about how people will be rewarded for killing the non-believers ("funny" in that "heeeh heeeh, honey please report that guy to the admins" sort of way). I can have her give me the quotes if anyone wants 'em.

[scrivener]

Re: Convert or be killed!...the game

The good folks over at Kotaku reviewed this game and thought it was a decent game. The even gooder folks at Jawbone of an Ass wrote about this back in February.

As a worshipping believer, I have to say that not all conservative evangelicals agree with Jenkins, LaHaye, or any of their writings. I'm not sure what I believe about the rapture (whether I am post-millenialist or pre-millenialist is something I don't think I really need to work through), but after you've laughed at this idiotic game for a few minutes, please consider that the spirit in which this game is intended is something I do understand. If these people truly believe that there is a heaven and that there is a hell (and I think it is clear that they do), of what harm is it to encourage other believers to pray on nonbelievers' behalfs? Would it not be more condemnable NOT to pray?

[Bard]

Re: Convert or be killed!...the game

Heh. What might actually tip the scales of the game to kinda cool would be if they had a light/dark side system like KoToR. Imagine if instead of praying for redemption points when you shot a looter in the game, your character in the game slowly started going over to Satan.

I really have nothing against the game except for its subtle jihadist message (or so I gather from reading the articles, I've never played it).

Well, that and I get tired of people constantly praying for my soul... but that's pretty harmless and makes me feel good that people care about me enough to do it anyway

[Miulang]

Re: Convert or be killed!...the game

I wandered over to the Left Behind Games website and there was a defense of the game published by the company's CEO:

...In Left Behind: Eternal Forces, the players' objective is to find ‘tribulation clues', which include Bible mysteries, codes and fascinating and eternally relevant information. In the initial missions, there is little emphasis on physical warfare and gamers are introduced to powers of influence which result in a battle for the hearts and minds of people. As missions progress, there are no ‘objectives' to cause war physically. However, physical warfare results when the player is required to defend against the physical forces of evil; led by the Global Community Peacekeepers.

I suppose a pure minded person (unlike myself) would see no harm in practicing the notion that one must go about redeeming other people (like myself) of their unwashed heathenness, but I remember when I was a small kid that on Saturdays, the Seventh Day Adventist missionaries would come around and try to peddle their goods...I would always hide so I wouldn't have to listen to their spiel.

Miulang

[scrivener]

Re: Convert or be killed!...the game

I suppose a pure minded person (unlike myself) would see no harm in practicing the notion that one must go about redeeming other people (like myself) of their unwashed heathenness

Okay, I know that a discussion about religion is not what anyone had in mind for this thread, but something here pains me, so I feel I have to say something.

I suppose the point is very fine, but I need to express that when Christians pray for others' salvation, they are not attempting to redeem anyone; a critical part of the doctrine is that each person must make that choice for him- or herself, must ask for that redemption of his or her own accord. I know that history (the world's, the nation's, and our own) is rife with examples of people trying to coerce, frighten, cajole, and bribe others into making that choice, so I don't blame anyone for having a negative view of the body of believers.

I do, however, want to say that when you hear about a believer praying on another's behalf, it's because of a deep conviction and belief that none but the individual can take that step; when you know there's nothing else you can do, you pray. It is an act of faith that is laughable, preposterous, possibly condescending, and strangely sweet. To care so much about another's soul that in private moments in private places, one will lift up another in this act of faith is at the least harmless and at the most holy.

It's easy to write a check to alleviate someone's earthly suffering; it's humbling--and at times humiliating, even--to cry out in all sincerity to a deity you can't be a hundred percent sure is there on behalf of a person who probably doesn't want it or appreciate it.