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  • Vick and his dogs

    You gotta love the inconsistency displayed by this article.

    http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2007/...-vicks-proper/

    Let me see if I got this straight. PETA don't want dogs to fight, and when they find these dogs, the best idea is to kill them.

    Just another example of liberal cognitive dissonance. Stupid libs.
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    Energy answers are already here.

  • #2
    Re: Vick and his dogs

    Originally posted by timkona View Post
    You gotta love the inconsistency displayed by this article.

    http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2007/...-vicks-proper/

    Let me see if I got this straight. PETA don't want dogs to fight, and when they find these dogs, the best idea is to kill them.

    Just another example of liberal cognitive dissonance. Stupid libs.
    You gotta love Tim's inability to actually understand what he reads, as displayed by this post.

    Conveniently missing this quote from the PETA spokesperson:
    "In most cases, pit bulls seized from dogfighting rings are euthanized, and as sad as that is to all of us, it may be the best thing to do for everyone concerned," PETA spokesman Dan Shannon said.

    Get this straight, Tim. The world ISN'T black and white. There are multiple ways to look at any issue. As much as they'd love to keep the dogs alive, anyone with a lick of sense knows that dogs trained to fight and kill are not likely to be rehabilitated into peaceful family pets.

    Just another example of Tim's closed-minded ability to fall into his simplified world views. "The Politics of BLAME." It's always someone else's fault.

    But I won't sink to calling you "stupid," Tim. A little blinded, perhaps, but not stupid.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Vick and his dogs

      Apparently a South Carolina inmate is trying to sue Vicks for $63 billion dollars for stealing and abusing the inmates dogs and using them to purchase missles for Iran. Part of the inmate's complaint is that Vicks physically hurts the inmate's feelings and dashes his hopes. $63 billion dollars. Wow, that's a lotta hurt feelings

      http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,293268,00.html

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Vick and his dogs

        PETA - the terror cell responsible for burning laboratories, and killing the animals inside, all in the name of saving the animals.

        Sorry Leo, but any opinion from PETA is subject to dismissal.

        The world is black and white. So is right and wrong. Now eat your barbequed chicken and I will see you at the Kentucky Derby.

        If you would like to take this further, my basic question is this:

        What is the fundamental difference between chicken fighting, dog fighting, and horse racing? It would have been much more humane if they had eaten Barbaro. And in some countries, dog is served higher on the menu than chicken.

        We live in a society (here in Hawaii) where cultural practice is being defended vigorously. But we are all too quick to judge other cultural practices.
        FutureNewsNetwork.com
        Energy answers are already here.

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        • #5
          Re: Vick and his dogs

          Don't go to this website if you have a weak stomach. Some of the pictures of fighting dogs are just plain horrendous. Dogs that are trained to fight need to be put down and cannot be adopted by families because they are too mean and could cause serious injuries or death.

          Miulang
          "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Vick and his dogs

            Sorry Leo but the dog lover (and owner) in me has to come out of the woodwork on this one.

            Originally posted by Leo Lakio View Post
            are not likely to be rehabilitated
            So.........there is a chance, albeit a small chance, that rehab MIGHT actually help save a dog's life. Let's say, I dunno, 5% can be saved if a professional trainer worked their asses off and was able to put that dog into a household with a strict training regimen and lots of discipline (Dog Whisperer stylee). Before someone plays the kiddy card me, let say no children should be around these dogs (animal shelters are able to adopt out these kinds of dogs all the time)

            In this scenario: Let's crunch the numbers, 100 dogs seized, 5 are able to be rehabilitated, but PETA is not going to do that. Nope. They have to make a statement. Ethical Treatment= Wholesale Euthanasia. Nice and clean. Damn, that seems really familiar.

            Another thought: What if there was a dog that never saw combat, never was in a fight, just caught up in a wrong crowd. What do you do about that one?

            I have had dogs all my life and had to put a few down but for all the right reasons. Is being raised in an incorrect manner (to some folks) a right reason?

            Hope your tummy is feeling better. A Matt's hotdog took me out last week.
            Last edited by nachodaddy; August 20, 2007, 03:40 PM. Reason: typo+ hotdog
            You Look Like I Need A Drink

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            • #7
              Re: Vick and his dogs

              The saddest part of this whole thing (besides abusing all those dogs) is Michael Vick was already making millions of dollars playing for the Falcons and from all his endorsements. Why did he feel the need to do something illegal? Now because he plead guilty, he'll probably lose it all, on top of being a convicted felon and having to do time in prison. Sad waste of talent.

              The indictment

              Miulang
              Last edited by Miulang; August 20, 2007, 06:41 PM.
              "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

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              • #8
                Re: Vick and his dogs

                Originally posted by Miulang View Post
                The saddest part of this whole thing (besides abusing all those dogs) is Michael Vick was already making millions of dollars playing for the Falcons and from all his endorsements. Why did he feel the need to do something illegal? Now because he plead guilty, he'll probably lose it all, on top of being a convicted felon and having to do time in prison. Sad waste of talent.

                The indictment

                Miulang
                I agree. Sad all around. Not too bright.
                Last edited by ploal5333; August 20, 2007, 09:55 PM.

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                • #9
                  Re: Vick and his dogs

                  No takers? No takers? All right, I'm gonna ask again...........

                  What, pray tell, is the fundamental difference between chicken fighting, dog fighting, and horse racing?

                  Hawaii is the perfect place to debate this topic due to the cultural popularity of one of those sports.

                  Could somebody pass the mustard, please?

                  ps - my avatar is 6-0
                  FutureNewsNetwork.com
                  Energy answers are already here.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Vick and his dogs

                    Originally posted by nachodaddy View Post
                    Sorry Leo but the dog lover (and owner) in me has to come out of the woodwork on this one.



                    So.........there is a chance, albeit a small chance, that rehab MIGHT actually help save a dog's life. Let's say, I dunno, 5% can be saved if a professional trainer worked their asses off and was able to put that dog into a household with a strict training regimen and lots of discipline (Dog Whisperer stylee). Before someone plays the kiddy card me, let say no children should be around these dogs (animal shelters are able to adopt out these kinds of dogs all the time)

                    In this scenario: Let's crunch the numbers, 100 dogs seized, 5 are able to be rehabilitated, but PETA is not going to do that. Nope. They have to make a statement. Ethical Treatment= Wholesale Euthanasia. Nice and clean. Damn, that seems really familiar.

                    Another thought: What if there was a dog that never saw combat, never was in a fight, just caught up in a wrong crowd. What do you do about that one?

                    I have had dogs all my life and had to put a few down but for all the right reasons. Is being raised in an incorrect manner (to some folks) a right reason?

                    Hope your tummy is feeling better. A Matt's hotdog took me out last week.

                    Being trained from Birth to fight until death may not have been the dog's choice, but being that dogs are NOT human, I seriously doubt they have any chance of becoming "peaceful" dogs or being "rehabliltated"

                    I too am a dog lover, I have 2 myself, but these dogs were never bred as pets, and being that they are capable of ALOT of harm, I agree with the euthenization.

                    PETA, tho I don't always agree with them, I feel are justified in this opinion. Dangerous to people and other animals.

                    I'll repeat myself. I LOVE dogs, but these dogs were never meant to be part of soceity, they were just bred to fight and kill.

                    I hope this gguy gets ALOT of Jail time. He certainly deserves it.
                    http://tikiyakiorchestra.com
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                    • #11
                      Re: Vick and his dogs

                      Originally posted by timkona View Post
                      What, pray tell, is the fundamental difference between chicken fighting, dog fighting, and horse racing
                      Howzit Tim,

                      Not taking sides in the debate, but my answer to your question is this:

                      The horses don't kill each other.

                      Granted, they do compete with each other for the enjoyment of humans, and some of them might die in the pursuit, but they don't deliberately kill each other.

                      Blaine
                      Make trouble, have fun, do good stuffs.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Vick and his dogs

                        Originally posted by nachodaddy View Post
                        So.........there is a chance, albeit a small chance, that rehab MIGHT actually help save a dog's life. Let's say, I dunno, 5% can be saved if a professional trainer worked their asses off and was able to put that dog into a household with a strict training regimen and lots of discipline (Dog Whisperer stylee). Before someone plays the kiddy card me, let say no children should be around these dogs (animal shelters are able to adopt out these kinds of dogs all the time) In this scenario: Let's crunch the numbers, 100 dogs seized, 5 are able to be rehabilitated...
                        Sure, it would be nice to save these beautiful animals - but how are you going to identify the 5% who MIGHT be redeemable? You even used "might" with that 5% yourself - them's some mighty slim odds. In the grand scheme of the world, you really think time, effort, money, resources, are best put into the risky scenario that MAYBE five dogs out of a hundred could eventually end up rehabilitated - and then you even still say "no kids" around them. There's no way you can give me a solid guarantee that last aspect will be enforced. So, even playing it under your structure, it's still very high risk for injury, even death, to humans versus a very low chance of successfully saving a few dogs. I'm not willing to invest in that game, sorry.
                        Originally posted by nachodaddy View Post
                        Another thought: What if there was a dog that never saw combat, never was in a fight, just caught up in a wrong crowd. What do you do about that one?
                        Sorry, but you're stretching here. How do you analyze this collection of canines, using human societal criteria? Couldn't we just as easily argue that ALL of the seized dogs were "caught up in the wrong crowd," namely those humans who bred and trained them for fighting? Without those people - the ones who should face justice, including their investors - perhaps those dogs could have led productive lives as companions; but that opportunity is past.
                        Originally posted by nachodaddy View Post
                        but PETA is not going to do that. Nope. They have to make a statement. Ethical Treatment= Wholesale Euthanasia. Nice and clean. Damn, that seems really familiar.
                        I'm not a PETA member myself, but this goes to the heart of my original response to Tim, which was not so much about PETA's qualified response, but about Tim's yes-or-no world view.
                        Originally posted by timkona View Post
                        Sorry Leo, but any opinion from PETA is subject to dismissal. The world is black and white. So is right and wrong. Now eat your barbequed chicken and I will see you at the Kentucky Derby.
                        Tim is a very intelligent man; his posts reflect that regularly. I don't expect him to AGREE with other points of view all the time, but he seems incapable of accepting that there ARE other points of view than his own, that they are legitimate, and that the holders of differeing viewpoints are not necessarily either "stupid" or "libs."

                        He falls into that same pool of response for anything he doesn't agree with. How many of his posts have included the phrases "politics of NO" and "liberal cognitive dissonance," or automatically blame either "liberals" or "boomers" for anything he dislikes?

                        I finally understand why voters in Kona soundly rejected him, when he ran for office - he would rather blame the same group of people for problems, over and over, than actually propose real, solid solutions that would benefit people other than himself. His post to launch this thread was another rehashing of his same blame games, and my response was to point that out. The supposed issue of the thread didn't matter, as his screeds have become interchangeable, no matter the topic. Yet when confronted with real questions he cannot answer, he vanishes from discussion. You could search the archives of HT and find numerous occasions where he has avoided direct questions from myself and other posters, and (if responding at all) responded with more of his catch-phrases. Shame - because he seems capable of so much more.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Vick and his dogs

                          Going to the other extreme, though, are municipalities that are creating ordinances which prohibit certain breeds of dogs from being owned within their city limits. Just as there are "bad" people, there are "bad" dogs. But not all dogs are bad. And not all bad dogs are representative of a breed. Every pet owner does have the responsibility of treating his animal humanely, and teaching them to behave when in the company of human beings. Any dog is capable of doing this, but sometimes it does take a lot of patience (and a lot of dog treats).

                          Tim neglected to mention the abuse that greyhounds that are bred for racing suffer, or foxes that are the prey for the fox hunts. Seems most of the "blood sports" (including dog fighting) evolved as pasttimes initially of the haute bourgeoisie and only in recent times has it filtered down to the petty bourgeoisie and ghetto culture.

                          Miulang
                          "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Vick and his dogs

                            Originally posted by Leo Lakio View Post
                            Sure, it would be nice to save these beautiful animals - but how are you going to identify the 5% who MIGHT be redeemable? You even used "might" with that 5% yourself - them's some mighty slim odds. In the grand scheme of the world, you really think time, effort, money, resources, are best put into the risky scenario that MAYBE five dogs out of a hundred could eventually end up rehabilitated - and then you even still say "no kids" around them. There's no way you can give me a solid guarantee that last aspect will be enforced. So, even playing it under your structure, it's still very high risk for injury, even death, to humans versus a very low chance of successfully saving a few dogs. I'm not willing to invest in that game, sorry. .
                            I have to agree. It's too big a risk. And sadly, it's the victims who suffer the most, because in fact, these dogs are victims of their abusers.
                            Aloha,
                            Mokihana

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                            • #15
                              Re: Vick and his dogs

                              Leo, I thank you for your reply here. Finally got some meat to work with.

                              Originally posted by Leo Lakio View Post
                              Couldn't we just as easily argue that ALL of the seized dogs were "caught up in the wrong crowd," namely those humans who bred and trained them for fighting?
                              No argument there, that is pretty much a given.

                              Originally posted by Leo Lakio View Post
                              There's no way you can give me a solid guarantee that last aspect will be enforced. So, even playing it under your structure, it's still very high risk for injury, even death, to humans versus a very low chance of successfully saving a few dogs. I'm not willing to invest in that game, sorry.
                              Sorry, buddy, no guarantees here, just like in the real world. Wish I could give you one but it would be a lie.

                              Originally posted by Leo Lakio View Post
                              How do you analyze this collection of canines, using human societal criteria?
                              Of course not. You would have to use animal societal criteria and that would have to be conducted by those who are trained in that field.

                              I am digging all the empathy here but it really rings hollow when in the same sentence (or paragraph) one condemns an animal to death. I do believe in rehabilitation where it makes sense and I also believe in euthanasia where it makes sense as well. I believe that being a specific breed and/or having a rough upbringing shouldn't be a one way ticket to the gas chamber.

                              Another thing that I did believe before this conversation even started, and so far I have no reason to think otherwise, is that it is infinitely easier to kill one hundred than it is to select and save five (or one for that matter).

                              You seen my giri before, welcome to my ninjo.
                              Last edited by nachodaddy; August 21, 2007, 11:56 AM. Reason: typo
                              You Look Like I Need A Drink

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