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  • Senator Larry Craig

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070901/...o/craig_arrest

    I don't get it. Yes, he went to a public restroom notorious for gay 'meetings'. He made gestures known to indicate this 'meeting' with another man. But, no words were exchanged, nothing really physical (except for their shoes touching), and he didn't expose himself. Everyone knows his intent was to seek an affair... but, is this enough to make an arrest? Do you think he will most likely get off?

  • #2
    Re: Senator Larry Craig

    A cop does not have to have sex with a prostitute in order to bust her for prostitution.
    http://thissmallfrenchtown.blogspot.com/
    http://thefrenchneighbor.blogspot.com/

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    • #3
      Re: Senator Larry Craig

      Originally posted by nikki View Post
      Do you think he will most likely get off?
      Erm.

      The guy already pled guilty. Of course, now he's saying he shouldn't have, that he should've had a lawyer, yada yada yada, but that's only 'cause the incident was uncovered. It's clear his intent was for everything to simply stay under the radar. There may be some legal maneuvering available to undo the paperwork, but he's guilty. And yes, intent without action can still be a crime. But obviously the criminal aspect of this story is pretty mundane. It's the political implications.

      What he did was perhaps pretty scandalous among a specific constituency, but it's how he handled it after the fact that pretty much sealed his fate on a national scale. While presumably he'd still be out of a job in the long run (given a long career of pushing family values and decrying the homosexual agenda), one wonders how differently the mess would've turned out if his response was to come clean and come out, rather than chanting, "I'm not gay!"

      Larry Craig, you may recall, was previously in the national news for preemptively declaring to the media that he wasn't soliciting sex with male congressional pages. The news came out that an investigation was underway, but despite there being no named congresspeople and no details at all, he issued a statement basically saying, "Not me!"

      Which, of course, focused heaps of attention on him. I think ultimately he turned out to have not been involved in the investigation at all.

      Not a particularly bright politician, obviously.

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      • #4
        Re: Senator Larry Craig

        Originally posted by SusieMisajon View Post
        A cop does not have to have sex with a prostitute in order to bust her for prostitution.
        Right, there has to be an offer of sex for money.

        I'm just afraid (well, not really) of making innocent gestures in a restroom and being construed to mean something else. But, I know there's much more to it, and I know he's guilty...

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        • #5
          Re: Senator Larry Craig

          I don't know about innocent gestures. While I guess someone nervously tapping their foot or dropping something on the floor in a toilet stall could be misconstrued (I'm sure as hell going to be a bit paranoid the next few times I gotta use a public facility!), it's clear from the record of arrest that there was practically an entire under-the-wall dance of hand signals. One that's pretty much a well-established and understood code to proposition anonymous sex among men.

          Not that I'd know anything about that.

          Not that there's anything wrong with that.

          Anyway...

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          • #6
            Re: Senator Larry Craig

            Originally posted by pzarquon View Post
            And yes, intent without action can still be a crime.
            OK, thanks... didn't know that.

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            • #7
              Re: Senator Larry Craig

              In his resignation speech, he didn't admit that he was guilty of soliciting. What is kind of ironic, though, is the seeming double standard the people in his party are using as far as what is "acceptable" illegal behavior v. what is not.

              Another of his party members, Sen. Vitter of VA, admitted he had patronized an escort service. The Republican Party did very little to punish him; no one asked him to resign from office. He disappeared from the public eye for a month or so, but he remains in office.

              But for Sen. Craig and Sen. Mark Foley, because the misdemeanors involved homosexual allegations, both were severely chastised and forced to resign.

              In the case of all 3 Republican senators, was the difference simply because Sen. Vitter was accused of an indiscretion that seems almost acceptable nowadays, whereas the country as a whole still trends toward the homophobic? Or was it because Craig's alleged crime was more embarassing for the hard right, church going, Bible toting Republican constituents than consorting with a prostitute of the opposite sex?

              One of the MSNBC commentators said this morning that it's a shame that Sen. Craig's claim to fame will not be for his service to the people of Idaho for 30 years during which time he did do a lot of good, but because of this stupid little incident.

              Miulang
              "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

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              • #8
                Re: Senator Larry Craig

                So, den....how can you guys make sure that you have 'safe shishi's'?
                http://thissmallfrenchtown.blogspot.com/
                http://thefrenchneighbor.blogspot.com/

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                • #9
                  Re: Senator Larry Craig

                  Originally posted by SusieMisajon View Post
                  So, den....how can you guys make sure that you have 'safe shishi's'?
                  I was thinking the same thing, but according to the audio tapes CRAIG was in a stall, so just shi shi at the urinal? And, if you need to use the stall, check for toilet paper or bring extra napkins, and once you're in there, DON'T make hand gestures under the stall.

                  The audio tapes also had CRAIG pleading that he didn't want this to get "out."

                  Perhaps he should have just said, "Sorry. I screwed up." Who knows what the reaction would have been. But, he pled guilty, retracted because it became public...and thought the best thing for him to say was, "I'm not gay."

                  It's quite comical.
                  ___
                  "Be god to each other."

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                  • #10
                    Re: Senator Larry Craig

                    Originally posted by InfinityProductions View Post
                    It's quite comical.
                    My thoughts exactly.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      wretchedly sorry political state , Re: Sinator Larry Craig

                      Maybe Craig had had successful encounters in that restroom before. Maybe he was expecting results of a pre-arranged rendezvous.

                      One thing for sure, the truth is not going to come from Craig's mouth no matter whatever else might do so.

                      What's with Idaho voters that such a character could be elected by them over and over...is there nobody in Idaho who can run and win against such a morally corrupt hypocrite, not to mention the fact that he must be among the dimmest lightbulbs in the ceiling?

                      What does it say about this corporatist democracy that such people so easily make careers out of elected high office in the United States? It shows very clearly just how wretchedly sorry is the political state of the nation.
                      Last edited by waioli kai; September 1, 2007, 09:45 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Senator Larry Craig

                        I keep hearing about the solicitation of sex in this case, but where is the intended exchange of money explained? Was it in the hand signals? If it's just a proposition, I don't get what's so illegal about what happened.
                        But I'm disturbed! I'm depressed! I'm inadequate! I GOT IT ALL! (George Costanza)
                        GrouchyTeacher.com

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                        • #13
                          Re: Senator Larry Craig

                          I don't think money entered into it at all. I mean, I don't think these particular anonymous encouters end with an exchange of cash for the most part. He was arrested for "lewd conduct," and pled guilty to the lesser charge of "disorderly conduct," presumably the same charge a heterosexual couple would get for getting it on in a public restroom.

                          Which is to say, there wasn't anything particularly illegal about what he was doing as far as paperwork is concerned. And for me, the problem wasn't really the specific act, either.

                          I guess there's some degree of homophobia or double-standard at work in fanning this controversy, but what really upsets me and a lot of people, I think, isn't that he was looking for sex in a bathroom. It's that he did what he did being who he is (a longtime "family values" politician who has backed anti-gay policies), and mostly, how he handled himself after getting caught.

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                          • #14
                            creeps like Sen. Larry Craig

                            Originally posted by scrivener View Post
                            I keep hearing about the solicitation of sex in this case, but where is the intended exchange of money explained? Was it in the hand signals? If it's just a proposition, I don't get what's so illegal about what happened.
                            Say you're sitting in a multi-stalled restroom stall in the only occupied stall and a person is looking at you through the crack in the door. Maybe that would not make you uncomfortable and a tad anxious about opening the door; maybe it would bother you so little you'd just let your son go in the same restroom unaccompanied by you.

                            If you were in a restroom stall at a major airport and all of the many stalls were empty until someone came, peeked into your stall, then chose the stall right next to you....after that, even without all of the Sinator Craig leg and hand manuvers under the divider, would your business in the stall be just business-as-usual? How can it not be possible to appreciate the fact that sometimes creeps like Larry Craig get busted?

                            I'm not suggesting that you don't appreciate his kind getting busted, but each state has its own parameters for what constitutes harassment, stalking, disorderly conduct, sexual solicitation, sexual deviancy....Craig got off with just a charge of disorderly conduct. Had I or any of my family been a target of such actions as Sen. Craig's I would want him to charged with more than just disorderly conduct. Are there really people who believe Craig was just exhibiting such deviant behavior for the first time? Are those people all die-hard Reublicans?
                            Last edited by waioli kai; September 1, 2007, 10:47 PM.

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                            • #15
                              Re: wretchedly sorry political state , Re: Sinator Larry Craig

                              [QUOTE

                              What's with Idaho voters that such a character could be elected by them over and over...[/QUOTE]

                              Well....Bush got elected twice.
                              http://thissmallfrenchtown.blogspot.com/
                              http://thefrenchneighbor.blogspot.com/

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