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Tasers: When Is Their Use Justified?

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  • Tasers: When Is Their Use Justified?

    I was watching the video of Florida police giving Andrew "Don't Tase Me, Bro" Meyer a high-voltage smackdown the other day at a John Kerry speech when it crossed my mind that Taser abuse is a growing problem in the United States. By "abuse" I mean the use of a Taser (or other stun gun) by law enforcement or security when the situation doesn't call for it.

    I realize authorities have a hell of a job day in and day out evaluating and acting on situations that are potentially life threatening, but I think there should be a universal set of rules for use of less-than-deadly force. The police in Meyer's case had force of numbers and should have easily been able to remove him from the building without use of weapons.

    Apparently, Taser abuse is a growing problem because "As the number of law enforcement agencies using stun guns has increased, the number of deaths reported to be associated with this less-lethal technology also has increased," according to this U.S. Department of Justice agency's website.

    So do you think Tasers should be reserved for use on people who pose a palpable threat to either themselves or others? Or do you think it's fine to apply them to anyone or anything that is a pain in the ass, including wayward cows, glass-wielding six-year-olds or library users who forget their ID?
    "If it's brown, it's cooked. If it's black, it's f***ed" - G. Ramsey

  • #2
    Re: Tasers: When Is Their Use Justified?

    I think it's horrible and absurd, the way the taser was used on that college kid that was asking questions. I think it peculiar the timing of the arrest....arresting him for WHAT? refusing to relinquish a microphone?? hell, he didn't fight for it, but he did keep talking and then look at when they turned it off and grabbed him......when he dared to ask Kerry about membership in Skulls and Bones.
    Stop being lost in thought where our problems thrive.~

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    • #3
      Re: Tasers: When Is Their Use Justified?

      That student was impassioned to the point of belligerent. He pissed off everyone around him. Damned kid acted as if he was the birthday boy.

      But he should have been escorted out and left at that. If that tape is correct/untampered with, we can hear that he was tased FOUR times. That was cruel and unusual punishment, befitting what crime, if any?

      pax

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      • #4
        Re: Tasers: When Is Their Use Justified?

        I was shocked when I viewed the video albeit a bit out of focus and all over the place. But, in any Q&A forum isn't there a time limit? Yes, he was a bit overzealous, but all they needed to do to take control was to excercise the 'time limit' rule. If he didn't comply, escort him out and let him be as loud as he chose until he was out of the building.

        Did I see the police rush out of the doorway after using their tasers without him?

        I smell a lawsuit!
        ___
        "Be god to each other."

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        • #5
          Re: Tasers: When Is Their Use Justified?

          Tasers are being abused a lot, so it seems. There's another case pending where a woman in a wheel chair was tasered repeatedly and she died. dang, I shoulda been paying attention to where this has happened, sorry, but it's in this week's news also.

          I saw that video and the kid was just asking Kerry four questions, and this was after complimenting him and saying that Kerry had truly won the election. He didn't slander or threaten the senator, I mean c'monnnn.

          I think the timing of when they finally turned off his mic, and then arrested him for NO good reason....was suspicious. He had just asked Kerry if it was true that he had been a member of Skull and Bones. Sadly, them silencing this type of questioning just gives a tiny bit? of credence to some of the conspiracy theorists.

          I'm no bleeding heart lib and that video sickened me, I thought...China, Russia and countless other countries would this have happened in, but America?!!

          How far are we from a Tiannenmen (spelling?) Sq. event? We had Waco and Ruby Ridge.....taser anyone with the balls to speak about what others just whisper about? Well, that's how I feel about this.
          Stop being lost in thought where our problems thrive.~

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          • #6
            Re: Tasers: When Is Their Use Justified?

            Well-trained police officers can subdue someone without using tasers, clubs or pepper spray. If someone is being belligerent and isn't armed with a knife or other weapon, then he or she can be brought down with arm locks and other moves.

            I observed some of the best in the L.A. Sherriff Department SWAT team training to do exactly that. Keep in mind that this was the LASD, NOT the LAPD. And in that same session I saw some of the SWAT officers from other parts of the country fail miserably to do even a simple kick to the legs.

            Arm locks, choke holds and leg locks take training to be effective and not all law enforcement officers are willing to maintain that kind of expertise, even though it's part of their job.

            Tasers and other non-lethal weapons are justified when the suspect is armed or if there's more than one threat present. If the suspect is armed with a knife or worse, then a gun is justified. And in that case, the LASD was trained to fire three times. Twice at the body and once at the head. But that's strictly in response to a lethal threat.

            In the case of Andrew Meyer security over-reacted. Kerry said he would answer the question and security moves in to grab Meyer?

            These security people handled it poorly because they're a bunch of poorly trained morons. They looked like a bunch of ignorant rent-a-cops. Trigger-happy cowards who don't know how to talk a guy down. This college student was outnumbered 7 to 1. One of the security guys looked like he outweighed Meyer by at least 100 pounds. They had him face-down and cuffs are visible in the hand of at least one officer. Yet they couldn't cuff and control him? Once he's face down it takes just one person to lock him up all day long. Just a little additional pressure can bring a lot of pain in the joints. And if all else fails, a simple choke hold will make him unconcious in less than 10 seconds.

            However, there didn't seem to be any need to escalate it to this level. Again, poor judgement from poorly trained security guards. Meyer wasn't anywhere near Kerry to be considered a physical threat. Unless Meyer barged into this event and had to be escorted out. In which case arm lock the guy, apply firm pressure and escort him out.

            During the whole incident not a single officer had eyes out. It could have drawn in other spectators and turned into a melee. None of the officers would have been aware of any other threats because every single one of them was fixated on Meyers. These couldn't have been trained officers. More like goons in uniforms.

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            • #7
              Re: Tasers: When Is Their Use Justified?

              Heh. Rejects from the OJ Simpson School of Thuggery, methinks.


              Miulang
              "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

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              • #8
                Re: Tasers: When Is Their Use Justified?

                The current keeps flowing -- sheriff's deputies from the OC Tasered an unarmed 15-year-old autistic boy Tuesday who dashed into traffic.
                Using the Taser in this case "was the right thing to do," said Jim Amormino, a sheriff's spokesman. "If that were your son, would you want him Tased or hit by a car? The deputy made the right decision. . . . It could have saved [the boy's] life."
                Original story here.
                "If it's brown, it's cooked. If it's black, it's f***ed" - G. Ramsey

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                • #9
                  Re: Tasers: When Is Their Use Justified?

                  Originally posted by Composite 2992 View Post
                  And if all else fails, a simple choke hold will make him unconcious in less than 10 seconds.
                  And how many times has that resulted in death? Is it safer or more dangerous then tasing?

                  One thing to remember. I doubt if security moved in on their own. They would have moved in when the folks running the show told them to remove the trouble maker.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Tasers: When Is Their Use Justified?

                    Originally posted by GeckoGeek View Post
                    And how many times has that resulted in death? Is it safer or more dangerous then tasing?

                    One thing to remember. I doubt if security moved in on their own. They would have moved in when the folks running the show told them to remove the trouble maker.
                    Tasers, according to CBS news, has been connected with somewhere between 40 and 70 deaths since they kept track of them beginning in 2004.

                    By comparison, the choke hold isn't inherently deadly IF applied with appropriate restraint. The same can be said of punching or kicking a suspect. Punch them to make them stop is one thing. Continuing to deliver blows after they're down could be deadly.

                    The key is to stop applying the hold as soon as the suspect goes limp. The problem comes when the hold is maintained well beyond that point and the lack of blood starts to injure the brain.

                    Some judo and jujitsu classes teach students this same hold to the point of unconciousness. It constricts the carotid artery and reduces the blood (and oxygen) to the brain. Same thing happens to high-performance pilots under high g's, whether it's in an aircraft or a centrifuge. It happened to a Star-Bulletin photographer during his flight with the Blue Angels -- twice in the same flight! So death isn't a serious risk if the choke hold is applied and released properly, especially for someone at Meyer's age.

                    A taser throws the victims' nervous system into a state of turmoil. It can bring all voluntary movement to a complete halt. It's capable of making a bull collapse right on the spot. It could cause heart fibrillations, and that's a lot more serious than a brief blackout. With tasing you're never certain where the probes might hit. A badly aimed shot with a thrashing suspect and you could pop him right in the eye. Or, in this case, end up tasing your own people.

                    Even if security were ordered to move in, they did it poorly and with excessive force. Seven security goons couldn't control Meyers without torturing him with a taser? I know cops who could have done it by themselves. In less time with less fuss.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Tasers: When Is Their Use Justified?

                      Originally posted by InfinityProductions View Post
                      I was shocked when I viewed the video albeit a bit out of focus and all over the place.
                      I laughed. I have a very dark sense of humor.


                      Originally posted by InfinityProductions View Post
                      But, in any Q&A forum isn't there a time limit? Yes, he was a bit overzealous, but all they needed to do to take control was to excercise the 'time limit' rule. If he didn't comply, escort him out and let him be as loud as he chose until he was out of the building.
                      They were trying to escort him out. He dropped to the floor like a deadweight and refused to budge.
                      Beijing 8-08-08 to 8-24-08

                      Tiananmen Square 4-15-89 to 6-04-89

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                      • #12
                        Re: Tasers: When Is Their Use Justified?

                        Originally posted by Composite 2992 View Post
                        Tasers, according to CBS news, has been connected with somewhere between 40 and 70 deaths since they kept track of them beginning in 2004.
                        "Connected". Now there's a loaded word. A quick Google shows arguments that most deaths after tasering are due to drugs. Occasionally it will be a contributing factor.

                        Now, getting back to this particular incident, wasn't there a report that this kid deliberately provokes incidents to post on YouTube?

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                        • #13
                          Re: Tasers: When Is Their Use Justified?

                          Originally posted by Random View Post
                          I laughed. I have a very dark sense of humor.



                          They were trying to escort him out. He dropped to the floor like a deadweight and refused to budge.
                          But to be tasered? And, I read another post here, any truth to this guy 'scripting and staging' to post on YouTube?
                          ___
                          "Be god to each other."

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                          • #14
                            Re: Tasers: When Is Their Use Justified?

                            http://www.kitv.com/news/attorney-sa...159508#!bmQ99O

                            Mayor Don't Taze Me Bro.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Tasers: When Is Their Use Justified?

                              Perhaps tasers could be used in lieu of guns by those folks who are so paranoid they feel like they need personal protection. Guns are desgned to be a killing weapon, tasers are not. If Travon had been tasered by George Zimmerman rather than shot to death, he would be alive today and suing the pants off of GZ.
                              Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

                              People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

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