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Myanmar: While the world watches

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  • Myanmar: While the world watches

    the brave people of Myanmar fight against a military regime that has ruled with real force and brutality for decades seeking their dream of democracy. Peaceful resistance turned to a blood bath when security forces moved in; Buddhist monks, ordinary citizens and at least one foreign journalist (Kenji Nagai) are amongst those shot or beaten to death. The world watches, the politicians pontificate and where is the UN?

  • #2
    Re: While the world watches

    In the mid- to late-nineties, I really believed this kind of thing is what our military is for, in this post-coldwar America. "Peace-keeping," they called it in the Sudan and in eastern Europe.

    Even in this post-9/11 America, I think this is the nobler cause, and much more worthy of our resources than what's going on in the Middle East. glossyp, I know you and I have disagreed about the ongoing war in Iraq, but do we agree that when common people stand up against oppressive governments, we of all nations should be there?

    I do not know how, of course, we could get involved NOW, with our reserves already stretched thin, but man. Something should be done, not only in Myanmar but in a few other places in the world.
    But I'm disturbed! I'm depressed! I'm inadequate! I GOT IT ALL! (George Costanza)
    GrouchyTeacher.com

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    • #3
      Re: While the world watches

      Originally posted by scrivener View Post
      In the mid- to late-nineties, I really believed this kind of thing is what our military is for, in this post-coldwar America. "Peace-keeping," they called it in the Sudan and in eastern Europe.

      Even in this post-9/11 America, I think this is the nobler cause, and much more worthy of our resources than what's going on in the Middle East. glossyp, I know you and I have disagreed about the ongoing war in Iraq, but do we agree that when common people stand up against oppressive governments, we of all nations should be there?

      I do not know how, of course, we could get involved NOW, with our reserves already stretched thin, but man. Something should be done, not only in Myanmar but in a few other places in the world.
      Getting China onboard would be key. They hold an influence over that country.

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      • #4
        Re: While the world watches

        Sadly, the junta has cut the main internet connections to Myanmar in an effort to keep information about the events occurring in the streets of Yangon from the rest of the world.

        Video slidehow of events in Yangon and worldwide related to this attack on human rights.

        Another news source from Myanmar

        Miulang
        "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: While the world watches

          More pictures and reports from a Burmese blogger who is currently living in London but who has been getting phone reports from people in the streets of Yangon.

          Miulang
          "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

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          • #6
            Re: While the world watches

            I would like to see the people get what THEY want, even if it is not to the satisfaction of government or corporate interests.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: While the world watches

              Originally posted by joshuatree View Post
              Getting China onboard would be key. They hold an influence over that country.
              China seems to be near the root of many a despotic regime in the SE Asia region, and that fact is enough to keep the US at bay. We won't kick NKorea's ass because of China, same goes for Myanmar, we won't help out Taiwan ensure their sovereignty against China and on and on...why is that? Does the theory go that we have as much a chance at besting China as we do creating a democracy in Iraq (or finding OBL)?

              pax

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              • #8
                Re: While the world watches

                Originally posted by Pua'i Mana'o View Post
                Does the theory go that we have as much a chance at besting China as we do creating a democracy in Iraq (or finding OBL)?
                Well, we indirectly went head to head against China during the Korean War and that was fought to a stalemate so I think that lingers in our minds. However, even though both sides play hard ball to the media, I think there is a slow convergence of interests as China did want to defuse the NK situation and things are looking positive now there. China also appears to be pushing Myanmar for reforms so maybe another positive sign. Ever since China signed up for capitalism, they seemed more concern about stability of markets.

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                • #9
                  Re: While the world watches

                  Originally posted by scrivener View Post
                  In the mid- to late-nineties, I really believed this kind of thing is what our military is for, in this post-coldwar America. "Peace-keeping," they called it in the Sudan and in eastern Europe.

                  Even in this post-9/11 America, I think this is the nobler cause, and much more worthy of our resources than what's going on in the Middle East. glossyp, I know you and I have disagreed about the ongoing war in Iraq, but do we agree that when common people stand up against oppressive governments, we of all nations should be there?

                  I do not know how, of course, we could get involved NOW, with our reserves already stretched thin, but man. Something should be done, not only in Myanmar but in a few other places in the world.
                  I do subscribe to the philosophy espoused by Woodrow Wilson that part of America's role in the world was to make it safe for democracy to take root. In retrospect one sees that many of the nations we were at war with have adopted some form democracy - and many of those countries are places where nay sayers claimed that the people there were not suited for democracy. Do we have a responsibility to stand with people willing to resist and die fighting against a regime such as in Burma? I believe we do. Will it happen? Probably not. Nonetheless, I remain a firm believer that democracy is, as Alexis de Tocqueville wrote, "universal and irresistable", to freedom loving people wherever they may live.

                  Here is an excellent essay written by a professor at Tufts University that compares Wilson and Bush and their worldviews plus a good dose of Truman and Kennedy. He articulates my point of view of what the position of our nation should be in regards to supporting the people of Burma. Bush's bid for a Wilsonesque legacy. Note that it was written more than two years ago.

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                  • #10
                    Re: While the world watches

                    Originally posted by glossyp View Post
                    I do subscribe to the philosophy espoused by Woodrow Wilson that part of America's role in the world was to make it safe for democracy to take root. In retrospect one sees that many of the nations we were at war with have adopted some form democracy - and many of those countries are places where nay sayers claimed that the people there were not suited for democracy. Do we have a responsibility to stand with people willing to resist and die fighting against a regime such as in Burma? I believe we do. Will it happen? Probably not. Nonetheless, I remain a firm believer that democracy is, as Alexis de Tocqueville wrote, "universal and irresistable", to freedom loving people wherever they may live.

                    Here is an excellent essay written by a professor at Tufts University that compares Wilson and Bush and their worldviews plus a good dose of Truman and Kennedy. He articulates my point of view of what the position of our nation should be in regards to supporting the people of Burma. Bush's bid for a Wilsonesque legacy. Note that it was written more than two years ago.
                    I agree with you that we should be supporting the dissidents, but where you and I diverge somewhat in opinion is that once the opportunity arises, the US should not dictate the kind of "democracy" that a newly free country should have.

                    Our past foreign policy (and bucks) have been used to foment the change by giving the resistance the financial backing it needs to overcome the incumbent regime. Unfortunately, time and time again, those initial good faith efforts have been turned against us (too many countries to list here where that has happened in the past).

                    In the case of Myanmar, not only are there issues with the monks and the general population, but for years and years (actually since 1949), there has been an ongoing campaign of oppression by the government against the Karen people. (Some of us on HT know an American who spent a few years in Myanmar helping run the resistance with this group, but as an NGO Christian missionary and not a representative of the US government).

                    More about the Karen rebels. One of their most famous leaders was a young boy of of 12 or 13 who led a group of young people to fight against the Burmese government.

                    Sadly, I don't know how we can help and yet not be taken advantage of down the road.

                    Miulang
                    Last edited by Miulang; September 29, 2007, 02:25 PM.
                    "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: While the world watches

                      Originally posted by Miulang View Post
                      I agree with you that we should be supporting the dissidents, but where you and I diverge somewhat in opinion is that once the opportunity arises, the US should not dictate the kind of "democracy" that a newly free country should have.
                      I did not say that there is only one kind of democracy. I did state that former war enemies have "adopted some form of democracy". Hardly an endorsement of dictating a specific model.

                      Originally posted by Miulang View Post
                      Sadly, I don't know how we can help and yet not be taken advantage of down the road.
                      Perhaps this is just part and parcel of change and should not be a reason to remove ourselves from the fray. Not every case of assisting the downtrodden has resulted in active emnity.

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                      • #12
                        Re: While the world watches

                        Hmmm...probably another reason why the US has to take special interest in what's going on in Myanmar...

                        Just last Sunday - when marches led by Buddhist monks drew thousands in Myanmar's biggest cities - Indian Oil Minister Murli Deora was in the country's capital for the signing of oil and gas exploration contracts between state-controlled ONGC Videsh Ltd. and Myanmar's military rulers.

                        The signing ceremony was an example of how important Myanmar's oil and gas resources have become in an energy-hungry world. Even as Myanmar's military junta intensifies its crackdown on pro-democracy protests, oil companies are jostling for access to the country's largely untapped natural gas and oil fields that activists say are funding a repressive regime.

                        ...Altogether, nine foreign oil companies are involved in 16 onshore blocks exploring for oil, enhancing recovery from older fields, or trying to reactivate fields where production has been suspended, according to Total's Web site. A block is an area onshore or offshore in which an oil company is granted exploratory and discovery rights.

                        Offshore, nine companies, including Total, Petronas, PTTEP, South Korea's Daewoo International Corp., Chinese state-run companies China National Offshore Oil Corp., or CNOOC, and China Petroleum & Chemical Corp., or Sinopec, are exploring or developing 29 blocks, Total said.

                        Despite economic sanctions against Myanmar by the United States and the European Union, Total continues to operate the Yadana gas field, and Chevron Corp. has a 28 percent stake through its takeover of Unocal. Existing investments were exempt from the investment ban.

                        Both Total and Chevron broadly defended their business in the nation.
                        Miulang
                        "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: While the world watches

                          Originally posted by Miulang View Post
                          Hmmm...probably another reason why the US has to take special interest in what's going on in Myanmar...



                          Miulang
                          Total, mentioned in the story above, is a French company. Here is a statement on their website about the current situation in Myanmar:

                          In light of recent events unfolding in Myanmar, Total would like to restate its position regarding its presence in the country.
                          September 26, 2007

                          First of all, the Group would like to express its deep concern over the present situation, which it is monitoring very closely. Under these particular circumstances, Total is deploying heightened vigilance to ensure the safety of its employees. We hope that the current tensions facing the country will quickly subside and that solutions will be found in order to safeguard the population and protect human rights.

                          We are convinced that through our presence we are helping to improve the daily lives of tens of thousands of people who benefit from our social and economic initiatives. By promoting responsible behavior, our local teams can serve as a model for business and political leaders looking for ways to address the country's human rights issues.

                          We would like to thank all those who have encouraged us to pursue our actions to help the local people and enhance their well-being through the defense of common values. To those who ask us to leave the country, we reply that far from solving Myanmar's problems, a forced withdrawal would only lead to our replacement by other operators probably less committed to the ethical principles guiding all our initiatives. Our departure could cause the population even greater hardship and is thus an unacceptable risk.

                          Jean-François Lassalle,
                          Vice-President Public Affairs,Total Exploration & Production


                          And Chevron, the American company, doesn't even list Myanmar as a county that they are drilling in (they do list Thailand and Cambodia, however).


                          Miulang
                          "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: While the world watches

                            An interesting essay that examines China's role (they are the principal outside beneficiaries of the natural resources, etc. of Myanmar) and why the Chinese might be motivated to apply pressure to the junta. Myanmar at a Crossroads from the Korea Times.

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                            • #15
                              Blackwater murders verses Myanmar protest deaths

                              US's Blackwater mercenary soldiers kill a dozen unarmed civilians in a routine daily action by Blackwater forces in Iraq as the Myanmar military kills ten protestors during days of marches by thousands of protestors and which story gets top billing in the U.S. media? The one Bush wants to talk about.

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