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  • Saudi Ministry Defends Rape Victim Sentence

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21964820

    I don't know about you guys but this is outrageous. It's bad that they criminalize extramarital affairs, but to say that the women deserved to be gang-raped and then sentenced to 200 lashes and 6 months in prison is barbaric.
    Beijing 8-08-08 to 8-24-08

    Tiananmen Square 4-15-89 to 6-04-89

  • #2
    Re: Saudi Ministry Defends Rape Victim Sentence

    Totally sick!
    There's no logic, honor, or true accountability in any of it.
    Sad...
    Life is either an adventure... or you're not doing it right!!!

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    • #3
      Re: Saudi Ministry Defends Rape Victim Sentence

      to me, it's a totally different country and culture, so we're in no place to say what's "right". stickin our noses into their business is what gets us in wars in the first place.

      IMO, eff her for cheatin, eff them for rapin', but let's focus on helping our starving, illiterate, and homeless before we catch feelings for someone halfway around the world.
      Twitter: LookMaICanWrite


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      • #4
        Re: Saudi Ministry Defends Rape Victim Sentence

        Originally posted by Mike_Lowery View Post
        let's focus on helping our starving, illiterate, and homeless before we catch feelings for someone halfway around the world.
        Let's do both, my brother.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Saudi Ministry Defends Rape Victim Sentence

          to me, it's a totally different country and culture, so we're in no place to say what's "right".
          Just bcause it's a different country or culture doesn't make them any less human; or any less entitled to the basic human right to not be gang-raped. While I agree that it would be nice to clean up our own backyard first, so that we can be self-righteous without also being hypocrits, I hardly think that ignoring that such things are happening is the best way to deal with it.

          That's how Nazi Germany got so bad, that's how millions of Jews died; because while the Facist regeim (holy crap, why can't I spell that?) in Germany was growing in power and more and more hostility was aimed at the Jewish population, the rest of the world said, "Not our problem."

          As a goverment, supposedly, founded the principles of inalienable human rights, we have to at least be willing to defend said rights anywhere there are humans. This doesn't absolutely mean military action, but at the very least, pointing it out and saying to the world community, "Hey, look what they're doing, that's messed up."

          Bringing such things to the attention of other like-minded nations or peoples is what makes it possible to apply political pressure, to get other countries involved in a lobby for change. Although, it would be nice to see a little more of our focus be directed inward; ignoring it is not going to make it OK.

          Though, the story itself has unfolded in alot of double-talk and "misinformation" and ammended statements. It's hard to say what really happened. Ultimately, though, I don't care what culture it is, or who's Book it's based on; these kinds of actions are nothing short of savagery.
          Last edited by Zovo; November 27, 2007, 01:38 PM.
          Grab some goggles and answer to nobody.

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          • #6
            Re: Saudi Ministry Defends Rape Victim Sentence

            Hey Zovo!
            That was well written according to me.
            I agree in many ways. Cool.
            Life is either an adventure... or you're not doing it right!!!

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Saudi Ministry Defends Rape Victim Sentence

              I don't know about anyone else in here, but I am personally sick and tired of the middle east, period. The fact that this kind of thing happens there lets me know even more what a HUGE waste of time this stupid Iraq War is.

              The kind of culture and morals in places like Saudi Arabia will NEVER change from the result anything WE (America) do....there will be no democracy, and women will always be degraded, and people will kill in the name of "GOD"...enough is enough

              I'm just tired of all of it. We as Americans have so much information coming at us about the Middle East, very little of it positive, I really think it's affecting our lives all in a negative way. Whether it's people with loved ones fighting the war, the price of Oil (can we PLEASE consider seek more alternative fuels sources more seriously?) or all the horror stories about the atrocities of mankind that happen there, not to mention 9-11....it's just too much.

              Look at you folks...You live in Hawaii...arguably one of the most beautiful places on earth. Sure it ain't perfect, but compared to Saudi Arabia, it's pretty damn close. NOW....this little bit of news, if you read it, probably ruined part of your day...WHY ? Yes, it's horrible, yes its wrong, but I say if people want to live like frikken barbarians...let em' . I don't need to hear about it. Nothing good comes of it by letting this info into your psyche.

              Sorry, for the rant, and maybe it's a little ignorant of me, but I'm making a conscious effort to NOT let any news item concerning that part of the world under my radar. I know I'll be alot less stressed out as a result of it.

              Like I said...sorry for the rant.

              So, how about those Lakers ?
              http://tikiyakiorchestra.com
              Need a place to stay in Hilo ?
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              • #8
                Re: Saudi Ministry Defends Rape Victim Sentence

                Yes, it's horrible, yes its wrong, but I say if people want to live like frikken barbarians...let em' .
                What about those who are merely victims of barbarism? Is it best to allow them to suffer so that we don't have to think about it?
                Grab some goggles and answer to nobody.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Saudi Ministry Defends Rape Victim Sentence

                  Originally posted by Mike_Lowery View Post
                  to me, it's a totally different country and culture, so we're in no place to say what's "right". stickin our noses into their business is what gets us in wars in the first place.
                  Perhaps, but as one poster have stated in sentiment, "evil wins when good men do nothing."

                  Originally posted by Mike_Lowery View Post
                  IMO, eff her for cheatin, eff them for rapin',
                  Hypothetically speaking, if your sister or your (adult) daughter is caught cheating, do you think she deserves to be gang-raped? Because that's what the Saudi Ministry of Justice have stated.

                  If she violated moral law, then those guys should turned her over to the legal authority. They shouldn't take the law in their own hands and punish her by rape.

                  Lucky you and your family live in Hawaii, where adultery is not a criminal felony.
                  Beijing 8-08-08 to 8-24-08

                  Tiananmen Square 4-15-89 to 6-04-89

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                  • #10
                    Re: Saudi Ministry Defends Rape Victim Sentence

                    Originally posted by tikiyaki View Post
                    I don't know about anyone else in here, but I am personally sick and tired of the middle east, period. The fact that this kind of thing happens there lets me know even more what a HUGE waste of time this stupid Iraq War is.

                    The kind of culture and morals in places like Saudi Arabia will NEVER change from the result anything WE (America) do....there will be no democracy, and women will always be degraded, and people will kill in the name of "GOD"...enough is enough

                    I'm just tired of all of it. We as Americans have so much information coming at us about the Middle East, very little of it positive, I really think it's affecting our lives all in a negative way. Whether it's people with loved ones fighting the war, the price of Oil (can we PLEASE consider seek more alternative fuels sources more seriously?) or all the horror stories about the atrocities of mankind that happen there, not to mention 9-11....it's just too much.

                    Look at you folks...You live in Hawaii...arguably one of the most beautiful places on earth. Sure it ain't perfect, but compared to Saudi Arabia, it's pretty damn close. NOW....this little bit of news, if you read it, probably ruined part of your day...WHY ? Yes, it's horrible, yes its wrong, but I say if people want to live like frikken barbarians...let em' . I don't need to hear about it. Nothing good comes of it by letting this info into your psyche.

                    Sorry, for the rant, and maybe it's a little ignorant of me, but I'm making a conscious effort to NOT let any news item concerning that part of the world under my radar. I know I'll be alot less stressed out as a result of it.

                    Like I said...sorry for the rant.

                    So, how about those Lakers ?
                    Their ball movement is a lot more purposeful since Fisher returned. They just need to iron out some inconsistencies on defense whenever substitutions are made.

                    Originally posted by Random View Post
                    Perhaps, but as one poster have stated in sentiment, "evil wins when good men do nothing."


                    Hypothetically speaking, if your sister or your (adult) daughter is caught cheating, do you think she deserves to be gang-raped? Because that's what the Saudi Ministry of Justice have stated.

                    If she violated moral law, then those guys should turned her over to the legal authority. They shouldn't take the law in their own hands and punish her by rape.

                    Lucky you and your family live in Hawaii, where adultery is not a criminal felony.
                    Have you been following the story? She wasn't punished by rape--the punishment was for being alone with a man who is not her husband. The rapists were handled in a different case. She's receiving additional lashings for turning it into an international incident by amplifying the victim spotlight on herself and getting Americans and Canadian involved. Yes, rape is a heinous crime, but her punishment is for other reasons.

                    Also, Saudi is a family-run country. Their magistrates don't play with the anyone who brings unwanted Americans and American thought into Saudi. Americans bring in too many Christian ideologies into a Wahhabi/Salafi-dominated country.

                    This is just American media carefully spinning some of us with wordplay. We'll eventually hunt down more Muslims in that region because of this girl, and venture into Iran in a minute.

                    Adultery's not a crime in several states, but the mental punishment that victims experience is deeper than any welt from a cane or whip. Where are all the good people stopping this evil from eating away at an individual? And if my hypothetical child or wife got raped, I'll murder the perp. Believe that.
                    Last edited by Mike_Lowery; November 28, 2007, 12:29 AM.
                    Twitter: LookMaICanWrite


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                    • #11
                      Re: Saudi Ministry Defends Rape Victim Sentence

                      Originally posted by Mike_Lowery View Post
                      to me, it's a totally different country and culture, so we're in no place to say what's "right". stickin our noses into their business is what gets us in wars in the first place.

                      IMO, eff her for cheatin, eff them for rapin', but let's focus on helping our starving, illiterate, and homeless before we catch feelings for someone halfway around the world.
                      According to The Independent, "Saudi Arabia's Justice Ministry has said a girl gang raped by seven men and then sentenced to six months prison and 200 lashes has confessed to cheating on her husband, in the kingdom's latest response to the negative international reaction to the case. "

                      In the LATEST reaction...hmmm...I wonder if her confession was actually given by free will or forced upon her as justification for the punishment AFTER worldwide media attention was focused on the case? And does cheating in that country simply mean hanging out with a man that's not her husband or relative? Or does it actually mean physically cheating? It all seems really fishy to me, especially in light of "when her lawyer, Abdul Rahman al-Lahem, appealed the sentence, he was removed from the case, his license suspended and the penalty doubled to 200."

                      I may not be from another country, but as a woman here in the US who was raised by strict Indian parents who wouldn't let me date or hang out with males either, I can recall getting interrogated by my dad if a male school classmate innocently and casually said hi to me in Walmart! My dad had already judged me guilty from the beginning, and nothing I ever said would prevent him from viewing me with suspicion, no matter how good a child I was. I never did anything, but I was always judged as guilty anyway.

                      If the Saudi Arabian husband was out cheating on his wife, I bet there would be no punishment involved; everything would simply be hush-hush and swept under a rug. I think that bothers me more than the actual punishment doled out, even though I think the punishment was unfair and cruel.

                      As a woman, I can't help but get angry. My situation was nowhere near what this girl experienced, but I can relate to those feelings of powerlessness and helplessness and frustration that she is probably feeling.

                      So "eff" everyone who chooses to morally judge others without knowing the entire story.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Saudi Ministry Defends Rape Victim Sentence

                        So "eff" everyone who chooses to morally judge others without knowing the entire story.
                        Unfortunately, in this particular instance, I don't think we'll ever know the whole story. Or at least not the true version.

                        But yes, as Mr. Lowery was so kind to clear up; she was not punished by rape. She was punished for cheating on her husband and for making a local issue into an international incedent.

                        The story, in linear form, would be more like; She met with a man who was not her husband with the intent to commit adultery with him, then she was raped.

                        I'm sure the Saudi government rationalizes it by saying that had she not been cheating on her husband she wouldn't have ended up raped; which to a degree is true, but issues of adultery are really between a man and his wife, there is no reasn a court of law should get involved unless an issue of divorce is presented.
                        Grab some goggles and answer to nobody.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Saudi Ministry Defends Rape Victim Sentence

                          Originally posted by Mike_Lowery View Post
                          Have you been following the story? She wasn't punished by rape--the punishment was for being alone with a man who is not her husband. The rapists were handled in a different case. She's receiving additional lashings for turning it into an international incident by amplifying the victim spotlight on herself and getting Americans and Canadian involved. Yes, rape is a heinous crime, but her punishment is for other reasons.
                          Yes, I have been following the story.

                          I disagree with them having such a moral law.

                          I also disagree the actions of those men who caught her committing a violation of their moral law.

                          She got punished both by the justice system and the vigilante action of those men.

                          Originally posted by Mike_Lowery View Post
                          Adultery's not a crime in several states, but the mental punishment that victims experience is deeper than any welt from a cane or whip. Where are all the good people stopping this evil from eating away at an individual? And if my hypothetical child or wife got raped, I'll murder the perp. Believe that.
                          If that woman is your wife in this incident, and the justice system only give the men who raped her a slap on the wrist, is that fair? Do you believe she got what she deserve -- including the vigilante rape -- for cheating on you?

                          Rationalize, schmationalize. If you see someone commit a crime, you don't go vigilante and administer justice yourself.

                          I hope those men got punishment by castration, and I'm not talking about their cajones. Shorten their parts until it looks like little nubs.
                          Beijing 8-08-08 to 8-24-08

                          Tiananmen Square 4-15-89 to 6-04-89

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                          • #14
                            Re: Saudi Ministry Defends Rape Victim Sentence

                            Originally posted by Random View Post
                            Yes, I have been following the story.

                            I disagree with them having such a moral law.

                            I also disagree the actions of those men who caught her committing a violation of their moral law.


                            She got punished both by the justice system and the vigilante action of those men.
                            As do most people in the Western world. The problem is their moral law is based on Islamic law; we were raised with a Christian natural law paradigm. Saudis could give a rat's posterior of Western opinion in this case. In other words, you want them to have your version of a moral law--which they would disagree with.

                            If that woman is your wife in this incident, and the justice system only give the men who raped her a slap on the wrist, is that fair? Do you believe she got what she deserve -- including the vigilante rape -- for cheating on you?

                            Rationalize, schmationalize. If you see someone commit a crime, you don't go vigilante and administer justice yourself.

                            I hope those men got punishment by castration, and I'm not talking about their cajones. Shorten their parts until it looks like little nubs.
                            It's difficult to say how I would feel had I been a Saudi, having been born and raised in the US. If I grew up in a society that controls women to the degree that Saudi Arabia does, I'd probably feel that the original sentence was fair, and possibly glad that she's lucky to have not received the death penalty for adultery. I'd be pissed @ the new sentence regardless of my ethnicity/culture/nationality/race/creed/color/weight/shoe size.

                            I'm not trying to administer justice here; just don't eff with my family. And don't you find it ironic that you're crying about the "vigilante rape" as punishment and oppose taking justice into your own hands, yet you advocate corporal punishment via genital mutilation? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. I guess here in lies the problem with violence worldwide; it's circular.
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                            • #15
                              Re: Saudi Ministry Defends Rape Victim Sentence

                              Originally posted by Mike_Lowery View Post
                              And don't you find it ironic that you're crying about the "vigilante rape" as punishment and oppose taking justice into your own hands, yet you advocate corporal punishment via genital mutilation? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. I guess here in lies the problem with violence worldwide; it's circular.
                              To you, it's circular. To me, it would level things out, considering she got raped and that was not part of her court punishment.

                              Of course, I would accept prison sentence (at least 5 years) in lieu of castration of the rapists. I may have violent thoughts but you can't say I'm not generous.
                              Beijing 8-08-08 to 8-24-08

                              Tiananmen Square 4-15-89 to 6-04-89

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