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  • Electric bill

    What is everyone paying?
    What do you live in?
    How many in your household?
    Do you have solar water heating?

    We got our bill and we are using 20.4 kwh/day
    We are a family of three living in a house in Mililani.
    We don't have solar water heating.
    We do have solar fans and split AC.
    I have two refrigerators.
    We have a timer on our water heater.
    I changed most of our bulbs to CFLs.

    Someone on the bus said her bill was $97 so that's about 12 kwh/day. She has a family of four and lives in a house.
    just started: mililaniblog.com

  • #2
    Re: Electric bill

    Originally posted by jkpescador View Post
    What is everyone paying?
    What do you live in?
    How many in your household?
    Do you have solar water heating?
    - $26.16 due to a 3300-watt grid-tied photovoltaic array. (Started in 2005 with 1100 watts and upgraded each year to max out the tax credits.) Electric bills range from $17-$41, although the fuel surcharges are probably going to keep us above $20 from now on.
    - 4BR 2.5BA Mililani home.
    - Two adults and a teenager with a huge laundry habit (3-4 loads/week). We'll lower that expense by launching her from the nest in another two years.
    Solar water since early 2006. Well worth the cost.

    Originally posted by jkpescador View Post
    We got our bill and we are using 20.4 kwh/day
    We do have solar fans and split AC.
    I have two refrigerators.
    We have a timer on our water heater.
    I changed most of our bulbs to CFLs.
    Our power use ranges about 2-3 KWHr/day (depends on the weather; 56-78 KWHr/month since the February rains cleared). We might hit zero this summer.

    EnergyStar appliances: GE Arctica fridge, KitchenAid dishwasher (worth every penny!), Kenmore washing machine (practically dries the clothes on the spin cycle), and 60" livingroom ceiling fan.

    Conventional electric clothes dryer and a door-mounted drying rack. Spouse draws the line at hanging a clothesline but we run the dryer 5-6 times/week.

    Convection/microwave oven (hardly use the electric oven or the range anymore). No A/C but five other ceiling fans and two attic solar exhaust fans. Lots of open windows.

    Mostly CFLs (every light that's lit more than an hour/day). Love the low-temperature frosted-globe CFLs in the bathrooms, which keeps them a lot cooler in the summer.

    Radiant foil insulation in both attics, most of the south/west walls, and the back of the (wood) garage door. Installing the attic insulation sweated out just about every water molecule in my body several times over-- much easier to do as part of a roof replacement.

    Future upgrades include replacing picture windows with awning windows (for more airflow), window tinting, and more roof insulation (when the shingles wear out).

    We bought a used (2006) Prius. If the battery-conversion price comes down we'll make it a plug-in and add a few more kilowatts of panels to supply the recharging electricity. The technology exists but the payback is at least 10 years and the range isn't very good-- yet.

    Our tax credits and lower electric bills have already paid for the PV array. Not counting the tax subsidies, the lower bills will earn our expenses back by Sep 2010. The electrical work was done by Keith Cronin & crew from Island Energy Solutions (262-3268) which has become a SunEdison subsidiary. We bought used or blemished panels, made most of our own racks, and did our own mechanical.
    Youth may be wasted on the young, but retirement is wasted on the old.
    Live like you're dying, invest like you're immortal.
    We grow old if we stop playing, but it's never too late to have a happy childhood.
    Forget about who you were-- discover who you are.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Electric bill

      Originally posted by jkpescador View Post
      What is everyone paying?
      What do you live in?
      How many in your household?
      Do you have solar water heating?

      Family of 3.
      50 yr. old single wall construction, open beam ceiling,
      3 bdrm. 1 1/2 bath.
      Solar since 2000.
      100% CFL lighting.

      At that time our bills were averaging $100 per month. The solar dropped it to $65. With the rising fuel costs and surcharges, our bill has more than tripled. We hang our laundry, which made a 25% difference, which was recently sucked up by new higher surcharges. We use at least 2 6,000 btu A/C units every night and 1 10,000 btu unit during the afternoons in the living room and still using 7 kwh less than the same time last year. Yet, our bill remains the same. No "realized" savings.

      I'd like to try a PV system, but they're still way too expensive. Like most, we're not that far off from living on the beach. We just don't have that kind of cash for the initial investment.

      A couple months ago I recently saw an ad on Craigslist for a custom built windmill system for under $500. Roof mount and hooked up to the grid.
      That looked intrigueing and very affordable, but never saw the ad since.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Electric bill

        Originally posted by jkpescador View Post
        What is everyone paying?
        What do you live in?
        How many in your household?
        Do you have solar water heating?

        We got our bill and we are using 20.4 kwh/day
        We are a family of three living in a house in Mililani.
        We don't have solar water heating.
        We do have solar fans and split AC.
        I have two refrigerators.
        We have a timer on our water heater.
        I changed most of our bulbs to CFLs.

        Someone on the bus said her bill was $97 so that's about 12 kwh/day. She has a family of four and lives in a house.
        man, our electric bill seemed so high ($340) the most recent bill i got compared to previous ones (usually around $250)!

        38.8 kwh/day (it's usually in the lower 30's like 31 or 32)
        family of four living in a single family house in hot Ewa Beach
        no solar (keep thinking that we should, but just never really made the effort...)
        central a/c that is kept at 79 degrees when only the dogs are home and maybe around 76 or 77 degrees when we are home
        timer on water heater
        some CFL's, some regular that will be changed to CFL's when they burn out... (or should I just change them out now?)
        I'd rather be ... LOST

        sigpic

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Electric bill

          Thank you for all the responses.

          Nords ... How much would a basic PV system cost today? Have costs been going down?

          Da Rolling Eye ... I know the windmill would be outlawed in Mililani. I hope you really aren't one step from the beach. Best of luck to you.

          Kanahina ... I will say that solar fans would make a difference in keeping the house cooler during the day. The installer said they do most of their business in Ewa.

          I am weighing my options about Solar Water Heating. I think PV is actually the way to go but it's more expensive. I think the technology for SWH is improving too as far as panels go and hopefully costs go down. I know some solar tax credits for SWH expire at the end of the year.

          We use hot water for showers early in the morning, showers at night, and some dish washing. We don't use hot water for washing clothes. So this always makes me wonder how much we would save with a SWH.

          I think the 2nd fridge takes up a lot of the energy for the house. I keep trying to clean it out and turn it off but the wife just bought some items and stuck them in the freezer. We dry some of our clothes in the garage. We have ceiling fans in every room. We also bought a window fan that brings in the cool Mililani night air into our bedroom at night. We have insulated our house. We have tint on all the windows.
          just started: mililaniblog.com

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Electric bill

            We just spent a week in a time share on Maui. They had signs in the condo asking to conserve electricity (such as being careful to not run the dryer longer than necessary). I think the electricity bills must be getting high enough to make the condo owners really take notice!
            Now run along and play, but don’t get into trouble.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Electric bill

              Okay...1 person in a 464 sq. ft. studio condo...
              Association pays for central A/C and hot water...
              Some CFLs...
              Dishwasher, stack W/D, fridge...
              The latest HECO bill was $75.00.
              9 kwh per day

              Makaha condo, 400 sq. ft., 1 bdrm, with 1 current, full-time house sitter...
              no A/C...
              30 gal. water heater...
              no dishwasher or in-unit W/D, old fridge...
              2 ceiling fans...
              Latest HECO bill; $55.00
              6 kwh per day

              HECO tells me the major difference in usage between the 2 condos is the refrigerator in the studio. Huh? It used to be in the Makaha condo where it didn't spike the bill. Plus it's an energy saver. I moved a much older fridge to Makaha when I took the newer fridge to town.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Electric bill

                I think we are between 800-1000sq ft, 1 1/2bed, 2 bath. Family of three with occ guests.
                Oceanfront condo, no a/c, fans in mainroom and bedroom that run all the time
                stack w/d (cold wash only) old fridge, d/w
                tiny water heater
                no solar anything, about half the lighting is fluorescent or CFLs.
                two computer systems online all the time (dh won't allow us to shut them down daily)
                bill this month $157.00 for 17 kwh/day. Strangely enough, the last 5 months have all been 17 kwh/day, give or take a tenth. The cheapest bill I have seen so far is 127.00 in January. So I budget for 150.00-200.00 a month.

                And dh wants a freestanding AC!!!!!!!! AACCKK!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Electric bill

                  Originally posted by jkpescador View Post
                  Nords ... How much would a basic PV system cost today? Have costs been going down?
                  Total costs used to be about $10,000 per 1000 watts but are coming down. I'm not current but I watched them come below $8/KW and they're probably still dropping.

                  Panels get cheaper to manufacture when demand is high. Germany & Japan (and, believe it or not, New Jersey) heavily subsidize PV and have greatly spiked demand. That caught companies by surprise in 2006 but everyone (including Hoku) is jumping on the panel bandwagon. Production has ramped up and prices are dropping.

                  I used to buy eBay/Craigslist panels for no more than $4/watt, and I'd have to wait months between purchases. But just a couple months ago a local was unloading 10 KW of panels on Craigslist for $4/watt even before the haggling started. Of course people had a bit of trouble coming up with $40K but they sold.

                  Inverters (what makes AC voltage out of the DC voltage) used to retail at $2500 for a 3000-watt model in early 2005. A few months ago at a home show I saw a 7000-watt model for $4500. Spouse dragged me away before I lost control of my wallet, but if I was starting over again I'd buy twice the inverter that I thought I needed.

                  Labor is a big part of an installation and that's directly related to the speed at which the guys can work. You may be sold a certain type or brand of hardware because it's faster/easier to install, not necessarily because it's better. Keith Cronin used to talk about all the extra training, special tools, and speed jigs he paid for to make installations go faster, and his guys were $75/hour in 2005-- well worth it, too. I'd recommend getting an estimate from Keith (or using the estimate calculators on PV websites) to figure out how much PV you want and how much it'd cost. If you have solar water and you're not using air conditioning then you probably want a minimum of 3000 watts. If you have A/C then you probably want a minimum of 6000 watts. I'm still trying to figure out how to boost our system "just one more time" to 4000 watts.

                  Originally posted by jkpescador View Post
                  Da Rolling Eye ... I know the windmill would be outlawed in Mililani. I hope you really aren't one step from the beach. Best of luck to you.
                  If it makes us feel happier, at last year's science fair a MHS student persuaded a wind-turbine manufacturer to mount monitoring gear on the high school's roof. Over the next couple months she was able to demonstrate that there wasn't enough wind to justify the expense of installing a turbine.

                  Originally posted by jkpescador View Post
                  Kanahina ... I will say that solar fans would make a difference in keeping the house cooler during the day. The installer said they do most of their business in Ewa.
                  Huge, huge difference-- especially if the only other choice is running an air conditioner.

                  We have a cathedral ceiling next to a stairwell, and the thermocline used to rise 20 degrees as you went upstairs. We cut a hole in the ceiling at the top of the stairwell and ducted it to a solar fan on top of the roof. Even before the ducting was connected you could feel the "whoosh" of warm air leaving the house. Standing under that grating on sunny days you can practically feel the fan pull the combover hair off your head.

                  The solar fan in our garage attic reduced temps from 125-130 degrees down to the high 90s. Radiant foil on the inside of our (wood) garage door reduced its temps by 25 degrees.

                  Compared to the cost of air conditioning or 120v fans, solar fans & radiant foil insulation pay for themselves in a couple years. It's even worth the cost of a home equity loan.

                  Originally posted by jkpescador View Post
                  I am weighing my options about Solar Water Heating. I think PV is actually the way to go but it's more expensive. I think the technology for SWH is improving too as far as panels go and hopefully costs go down. I know some solar tax credits for SWH expire at the end of the year.
                  We use hot water for showers early in the morning, showers at night, and some dish washing. We don't use hot water for washing clothes. So this always makes me wonder how much we would save with a SWH.
                  Soldered copper is pretty straightforward. Our solar water panels are over 30 years old and were sitting in a vacant lot for a couple years before we found them. I flushed them and tested them, and they've been leak-free for over two years (including the earthquakes). Don't hold back because of material/quality concerns. Inter-Island Solar Supply and the local wholesale manufacturer do a good job and they stand behind their warranties.

                  Solar water has a 3-8 year payback versus photovoltaic's 20-year payback. Of course the spreadsheets never account for oil prices rising so rapidly, but it's much more achievable to shell out $4000-$5000 for a solar water system (and get back $2500-$3000) than to cough up 10x that amount for PV. Once the hot-water bill is under control then it may be easier to save up for PV.

                  It's not so much the use of the hot water as it is keeping it hot. We even saw the difference on our highly efficient EnergyStar water heater, let alone on the crap water heaters installed in most houses. On the two or three days a year when the sun can't keep up with our teen's showers and we turn on the electricity to the solar water heater, we can see the change in our electric bill.

                  You can test this at home by shutting off the breaker to the water heater for a couple weeks. You'll see it in your electric bill and (before your family mutinies) you might even be able to gather enough data to figure out how long it'll take to pay back the expense of installing solar water.

                  Originally posted by jkpescador View Post
                  I think the 2nd fridge takes up a lot of the energy for the house. I keep trying to clean it out and turn it off but the wife just bought some items and stuck them in the freezer.
                  The math that usually persuades spouses is showing them the real cost of those frozen items. Unless you're butchering your own hogs/cattle, it's usually cheaper to let the grocery store keep the meat cold and sell it at a higher price than to buy it on bulk sale and then have to keep it cold at home.

                  One of the first questions out of HECO's enegy-audit staff will be "Do you have a second refrigerator?" I've even seen California public utilities offer people $100 for their garage fridges-- just enough to give them up, not so much to make it worth replacing them.

                  In 2000 we bought a higher-quality GE 20-cubic-foot fridge. It was our only fridge and we kept it as fully loaded as can be achieved with a teenager. It consumed an average of 97 watts per hour-- 850 KWHr/year despite its official rating of 745 KWHr/year.

                  Last year we got a 2007-model GE Arctica 25-cubic-foot fridge. It's a high-end EnergyStar model that used to have to be custom-ordered from Sears. (We got it from a distressed Craigslist seller.) It's rated at 618 KWHr/year and we've been using about 707 KWHr/year. The new fridge is 25% bigger than the old one and yet it uses nearly 20% less energy. Lowe's & Home Depot are selling EnergyStar fridges right out of stock that probably use 60-70% of the energy consumed by the average 10-year-old fridge, and less than half the energy of the typical garage fridge. That payback comes pretty fast.
                  Last edited by Nords; June 15, 2008, 06:57 AM.
                  Youth may be wasted on the young, but retirement is wasted on the old.
                  Live like you're dying, invest like you're immortal.
                  We grow old if we stop playing, but it's never too late to have a happy childhood.
                  Forget about who you were-- discover who you are.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Electric bill

                    I am comparing our costs in Mexico to Hawai'i in preparation for our move to Honolulu. I hope you don't mind my throwing in a price comparison here in Los Cabos, Baja California

                    Temperature/weather quite similar to Hawaii except less rainy. Latitude is about the same. Air cond. only necessary in July, August, and September.

                    2 bdrm condo on the beach open to tradewinds
                    1300 sq.ft. cement block construction but lots of floor/ceiling, south and west facing glass
                    Condo owner pays all utilities except common areas incl. in HOA fees
                    Family of two plus occasional guests
                    No solar
                    Mini split air conditioning units (three)
                    Celing fans in living/sleeping areas
                    100% CFL
                    Elec. 30gal. w/h and cooktop
                    Have d/w but use it only twice a month to keep things lubed
                    In unit w/d but dry clothes mostly on clothes racks in guest bdrm.
                    Energy efficient over/under frig
                    No t.v. service - use pc and SIRIUS radio for entertainment
                    Keep a.c. thermostat at 83F during day during hot season, turn it off at night, open sliders, and sleep under fans

                    Average Oct thru June is 12 kwh/day and about $60 per month
                    Average Jul thru Sept is 30kwh/day and about $175 per month
                    Water cost about $40 to $50 per month - low flow toilets, restrictors on showers, no landscaping water - converting to de-sal water over next 12 months and water cost will come down
                    Telephone plus DSL is $60 per month
                    Cable TV (if we had it) $60 for basic service (50% stations in Spanish)

                    It appears that our living expenses - food, transportation, entertainment, housing, utilities - will remain about the same in Honolulu compared to Los Cabos.

                    Ofa 'atu
                    Mui Houma
                    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

                    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Electric bill

                      We used 17 - 25 kwh/day for 2008.
                      We are a family of two living in a house in Waimalu.
                      We have solar water heating (25yrs old and a 25yr old water heater).
                      We have central AC but are too cheap to use it.
                      We have one pretty new refrigerator.
                      I changed most of our bulbs to CFLs.
                      We have a plasma TV which uses 500-600 watts and a computer which uses at least 100 watts (even on sleep mode) which are used frequently.
                      We frequently watch movies from my computer with the video playing on my plasma and the audio on my surround sound, makes for some pretty dam expensive entertainment.

                      Anyone else not get their HECO bill yet this month?? I've never gotten it later than the 5th of the month so this is odd...
                      What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof. – Christopher Hitchens

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Electric bill

                        I don't think I've seen mine. It's paid automatically, so I just open it, cringe and set it aside.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Electric bill

                          My HECO bill link appeared in my email last night. No great surprises, but the kwh/day just keeps climbing.

                          17.9 in 11/08
                          18.5 in 12/08
                          20.9 in 01/09

                          The only difference I can see is a few hours of Christmas tree lights in December. And that was about 3-4 strands (in a 6-ft pre-lit tree.)

                          I am resigned to $5-$6 per day for electricity. The other two household members are no help.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Electric bill

                            I was just looking into installing PV. Can anyone recommend a contractor, or is it simple enough to do it yourself? (I'm reasonably handy with home repair and upgrades...)
                            Burl Burlingame
                            "Art is never finished, only abandoned." -- Leonardo Da Vinci
                            honoluluagonizer.com

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Electric bill

                              Originally posted by buzz1941 View Post
                              I was just looking into installing PV. Can anyone recommend a contractor, or is it simple enough to do it yourself? (I'm reasonably handy with home repair and upgrades...)
                              It is simple enough to do yourself, especially if you've done electrical work around your home. You can still get a shock if you mess up the electrical-safety precautions. Of course if you inadvertently provide a path to ground while you're connecting a live three-kilowatt array to the inverter, then you'll never even know you're dead. But otherwise it's not rocket science.

                              If you're going off the grid then you can probably get away with anything. What HECO doesn't know won't hurt you.

                              However HECO's net-metering agreement requires an electrical contractor's license number and a construction permit. I found the permit process to be especially annoying due to the department's lack of PV experience and the bureaucracy. Paying the contractor to run the permit was worth every penny of the $150* to the contractor and $411* to the govt.

                              The building code of PV systems is non-intuitive. Decisions that seemed logical or more economical were laughed at by the electrician because they didn't conform to code. Community association rules may also be PV-hostile, especially if the sun would reflect off the panels into a neighbor's window.

                              I used Keith Cronin of Island Energy Solutions because he was willing to let us do the mechanical part (while teaching us the code) and he wired in the first 1100 watts of panels. We did the next two kilowatts ourselves. I've heard rumors that SunEdison has already shut down their Hawaii venture and cut Keith loose, but if he's not interested in the work then he'll give you a good referral.

                              I'd also recommend Cully Judd & Ron Richmond at Inter-Island Solar Supply. Ron used to handle HECO's net-metering agreements and he can definitely cut through the red tape. And if IISS can't do the job then they'll recommend a trustworthy contractor.

                              It's worth paying retail for a new inverter (or letting the contractor sell it to you) but PV panels are getting cheap again. All of ours are used or seconds bought through the classifieds, Craigslist, & eBay.

                              One of the island's first PV home users, Mike Morton, used to say that it was always easier/cheaper to cut back consumption than it was to boost production. He also advocated installing solar water, if you didn't already have it, before photovoltaic.

                              PM me if you want to come by for a tour. I'll talk your ears off...

                              *2004 retail prices...
                              Youth may be wasted on the young, but retirement is wasted on the old.
                              Live like you're dying, invest like you're immortal.
                              We grow old if we stop playing, but it's never too late to have a happy childhood.
                              Forget about who you were-- discover who you are.

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