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  • You talk pidgin?

    I just caught myself speaking pidgin in another message board site. Apparently, I just made a thread about something important, and usually the forums are busy around this time, so I was expecting a lot of responses quickly. I was wrong. For five minutes, no one responded. I checked, and I saw the problem, which was the topic's title. It read: "which one would go: your legs or your arms?". Pidgin eh? So, I reworded it: "If you had a choice, which would you choose to cut off? your legs or your arm."

    Seeing that this is a Hawaii board, I just wanted to share that with people who understands.

    Did you do something like that? (either online or offline)
    How'd I get so white and nerdy?

  • #2
    Re: you talk pidgin?

    I usually speak standard English but often drop into pidgin when I'm talking with my parents, especially my raised-on-the-plantation father. My wife is always amused when I'm on the phone with him, because it's so uncharacteristic of me to be talking pidgin. Sometimes it's just easier. The other day I was helping him with some repairs and I called from across the room:

    Me: "Dad. I can't find the Philips screwdriver, is it over there?"
    Him: "Hanh?"
    Me: [sigh] "Dad. No moa da Philips screwdrivah. You get um?"
    Him: "Let me see... hai." [holds up the screwdriver for me to come get]

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: you talk pidgin?

      Even though I thought I spoke pretty good standard English, when I was in California people could still tell I was from Hawai'i by my accent. I guess it never really goes away.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: you talk pidgin?

        Ex-pats like me who have been away from Hawaii for eons relish in being able to break out in pidgin with other local ex-pats (go visit da www.ohanalanai.com boards).

        Small keed time, eh, was forced foa speak da kine "good English" even at home. Somebody wen go tell me dat was da only way I going get ahead. So I wen come up hea to da mainland foa school lidat and now close to 40 yeas I stay up heah. So good fun to speak da kine pidgin wit odda ex-pats because we know now wat we go miss by being up heah. Sometimes I tink da ex-pats moa "local" den you guys who still ova in da 'aina. Plenny kine guys ova in da 'aina still trying foa figga out one way to bus' out from ova dere and hele up hea. Plenty us guys want to hele back to da 'aina but no can because no moa enough kala foa live. Eventually though, you going come homesick one way or anoda. Das why stay so important to keep practicing da kine pidgin foa me. Eh, das one real "leveler" which means I not trying to ack betta den somebody else. So wat if I wen go grad school wen I talk da kine pidgin? Nobody going know. Da funny part is plenny kine words we no know how foa spell in pidgin because you going spell da words depending on how you go talk. But since pidgin stay one official dialect ("Hawaiian Creole") den dass okay for us go use, yeah? Plus, when you go wala 'au and you go stick Hawaiian kine words insai too, ho, sometimes come out really funny kine! Like one time on da Lanai, somebody wen go mention "aiyapots". We get good fun trying foa guess wat da person wen go say: "aiyapohts" (as in where planes land) or "aiyapots" (da cannister dat can hold da kine beverages).

        Da odda neat ting about writing and talking in pidgin is you get so good fun, no moa time foa get in beefs! ("Wot, I owe you money?")

        Miulang
        Last edited by Miulang; August 24, 2004, 05:04 PM.
        "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: you talk pidgin?

          Originally posted by Eric
          Me: "Dad. I can't find the Philips screwdriver, is it over there?"
          Him: "Hanh?"
          Me: [sigh] "Dad. No moa da Philips screwdrivah. You get um?"
          Him: "Let me see... hai." [holds up the screwdriver for me to come get]
          LOL.

          Sometimes its easier to speak pidgin when your yelling.
          How'd I get so white and nerdy?

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: you talk pidgin?

            I didn't think I spoke pidgin until I left for the Military right out of High School (Kalani 78). In Basic Training my instructors made me take a reading comprehension test. When I passed it at a college reading level they couldn't understand how someone illiterate could read at the college level.

            Illiterate! How dare! Because of my Pidgin English, they thought I was mentally retarded because I spoke "Funny". I told them they talked funny with their Southern slang.

            After four years in Idaho, I picked up that western slang and when I came home to Hawaii my friends looked at me funny when I would ask them, "Whatch yall looking at me funny like thaaat". They would respond, "Eh Haole! What you did wit bradda Craig!

            It turns out that after one year of repatriating myself here in Hawaii, I developed a more standard sound that helped me get into broadcasting locally.

            But even Pidgin English has it's variations. I though I spoke decent pidgin until I visited Kauai. Hoooo boy sloooow down bradda try talk mo betta den dat no can undastand you. Then there's my Filipino friend Noli, he mixes pidgin with his Filipino accent and bradda, I give up, da bugga speaking something strange!


            When you say, "Eh da lunch wagon on Ward avenue is onolishish ho da kau kau stay broke da mout!" that's a bit Chinese and a bit Japanese mixed in with local talk better known as Pidgin urban style.

            So lata's we goin grind la dat (then you give them the palm down shaka sign local style) Hmmm is there a way we can get the shaka sign as an icon we can use on this board?
            Life is what you make of it...so please read the instructions carefully.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: you talk pidgin?

              Originally posted by craigwatanabe
              But even Pidgin English has it's variations. I though I spoke decent pidgin until I visited Kauai. Hoooo boy sloooow down bradda try talk mo betta den dat no can undastand you. Then there's my Filipino friend Noli, he mixes pidgin with his Filipino accent and bradda, I give up, da bugga speaking something strange!

              When you say, "Eh da lunch wagon on Ward avenue is onolishish ho da kau kau stay broke da mout!" that's a bit Chinese and a bit Japanese mixed in with local talk better known as Pidgin urban style.

              So lata's we goin grind la dat (then you give them the palm down shaka sign local style) Hmmm is there a way we can get the shaka sign as an icon we can use on this board?
              Good idea about the shaka smilie.

              And yeah, I read that pidgin a mixture of various languages mixed together to help the plantation workers understand each other.
              How'd I get so white and nerdy?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: you talk pidgin?

                Originally posted by Miulang
                Ex-pats like me who have been away from Hawaii for eons relish in being able to break out in pidgin with other local ex-pats (go visit da www.ohanalanai.com boards).

                So good fun to speak da kine pidgin wit odda ex-pats because we know now wat we go miss by being up heah. Sometimes I tink da ex-pats moa "local" den you guys who still ova in da 'aina.

                Eventually though, you going come homesick one way or anoda. Das why stay so important to keep practicing da kine pidgin foa me.
                Miulang
                I had to pick out some of your comments because I agree with so much on this. This topic about "pidgin vs. good English" has been on the boards for awhile now. I also left Hawaii a long time ago. Going on 37 years. Went to parochial schools and the usual thing...parents did not allow us to speak pidgin English when my sis and I were growing up. I've heard it said that a person's accent/inflection or lack of it is a result of whoever was responsible for their language skills. So maybe those East Coast Maryknoll nuns and the Franciscan nuns had an influence on me as a result. I don't have an accent or a local inflection and never have. There are a lot of people in Hawaii that have remained there that don't have one either. People here never know where I'm from. BUT, c'mon...admit it we ALL do and can slip into the "pidgin mode" if we want to.

                We here on the mainland are often estranged from the Hawaiian culture and people, and live in places where there aren't ANY local people around. To hear the locals' sing-song patois, the pidgin english and the unique sayings, reminds us of home. Maybe that's why on the other site where pratically everyone there are outside of Hawaii, break into pidgin on the boards. We miss that connection...the comfort of being around our family and friends.

                I admit for myself it's not easy to write in pidgin. You really have to think about it. But when I do, it's a kick. It's like we have our own special language and we're connected. On those very rare times that I'm around the ohana and the pidgin is flying (and I'm trying ), I get so nostalgic for home and family. I'm referred to as the "wannabee tita."

                Well, that's my 2-cents and I'll get off the box now. Aloha.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: you talk pidgin?

                  Originally posted by btwnc2c
                  I admit for myself it's not easy to write in pidgin. You really have to think about it.

                  not for me. its nachurl li dat.
                  prefer it when im 'off duty".
                  more fun.
                  and it helps cement da ohana and confuses da haoles who you don't want part of the conversation.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: you talk pidgin?

                    not for me. its nachurl li dat.
                    Even if pidgin flows easily from one's keyboard, reading pidgin is another matter entirely. For good reason, there's no Pidgin Manual of Style or anything, so there's no rules or conventions as to how pidgin looks (since it is, after all, an oral tradition). Is it li'dat, or la'dat? Stay or stey or steh? Some folks use apostrophes to mark omitted letters in English words (he wen' go), some don't.

                    The differences we see in top selling "pidgin literature" are excellent examples. Depending on your own personal style, Lee Tonouchi's stuff may be hard to process but Lois Ann Yamanaka's stuff might flow naturally... or the other way around. There's no right way or wrong way, and that's both good and bad.

                    Whether by design or not, reading written pidgin aloud is one way to stay on track. As long as coworkers don't think you're being strange.

                    and it helps cement da ohana and confuses da haoles who you don't want part of the conversation.
                    I suppose. Of course, this might be an argument against speaking strictly pidgin. Interesting how a pidgin/creole language that developed to be more inclusive to different types of people can also be invoked in a way that is exclusionary...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: you talk pidgin?

                      Originally posted by pzarquon
                      I suppose. Of course, this might be an argument against speaking strictly pidgin. Interesting how a pidgin/creole language that developed to be more inclusive to different types of people can also be invoked in a way that is exclusionary...
                      hate it being referred to as creole. cuz that has nothing whatevah to do with Hawaii. creole is from another completely far removed geographic locale.

                      It is from the Louisiania/Cajun area

                      It is a term used in referring to white Louisianians.
                      It is:
                      * white person born in the colonies
                      * a person of European descent born especially in the West Indies or Spanish America
                      * a white person descended from early French or Spanish settlers of the U.S. Gulf states and preserving their speech and culture
                      * a person of mixed French or Spanish and black descent speaking a dialect of French or Spanish
                      *a language evolved from pidginized French that is spoken by blacks in southern Louisiana
                      * Having to do with creole cooking.

                      but it does not in any way have to do with Hawaii or any aspect of Hawaii or our "slanguage."

                      Originally posted by pzarquon
                      I suppose. Of course, this might be an argument against speaking strictly pidgin.
                      there can be no argument against speaking strictly pigin.
                      if one want to one does. If can, can. if no can, NO CAN!

                      Originally posted by pzarquon
                      Interesting how a pidgin/creole language that developed to be more inclusive to different types of people can also be invoked in a way that is exclusionary...
                      it didnt develop TO BE more inclusive. the slanguage does not have innate inclination or motivation, purpose or cause in and of itself as a sentient being would.

                      the development of pidgin was a natural development with input from all races and cultures on the islands through the decades and i feel it is our unofficial (for locals/kama'aina) language.

                      to argue that one should not speak it is to welcome the natural response;
                      "eh you no like hea da kine? wot, boddah you!?
                      kay den; goway".
                      Last edited by kimo55; September 6, 2004, 12:41 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: you talk pidgin?

                        there can be no argument against speaking strictly pigin.
                        if one want to one does. If can, can. if no can, NO CAN!"

                        Hi Kimo!

                        I have no argument with this, except that I must comment on the fact that my opthamalogist doesn't use pidgin when on the job, nor have my bankers, dentist, etc. Must be a reason for that, and I suspect it goes beyond them simply not wanting to be misunderstood. (G)

                        Pidgin has its place, just as our redneck, Southern drawl and way of speaking does in my beloved South Texas, but at home, same thing is true....professional people leave that stuff at home.
                        Stop being lost in thought where our problems thrive.~

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: you talk pidgin?

                          Originally posted by Karen
                          Hi Kimo!
                          hahzeet!
                          pau mo da lawn oah deah or what?
                          no mo' hana today? jez chill wit da keiki and get time to tok widdus now?
                          glad to seeya again!
                          wheah yoo been jelly bean!?

                          I have no argument with this, except that I must comment on the fact that my opthamalogist doesn't use pidgin when on the job, nor have my bankers, dentist, etc. Must be a reason for that, and I suspect it goes beyond them simply not wanting to be misunderstood. (G)
                          especially when it can be seen that it would be misundahstood when they come work in da shahts, sleepahs and their outrigger ohana t shirt.

                          Pidgin is da casual "Im back wit my gang" thing we wear (conversationally speaking) to feel comfortable, jes as we wear more comfy clothes when we holoholo on down kapiolani pahk steh hangin wit da braddahs.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: you talk pidgin?

                            Originally posted by kimo55
                            hate it being referred to as creole. cuz that has nothing whatevah to do with Hawaii. creole is from another completely far removed geographic locale.
                            "Creole" and "pidgin" are linguistic terms with specific meanings. Yes, "Creole," with a capital C and with no modifiers, is usually taken with the connotations you spell out. However, Louisianians don't have exclusive use of the word.

                            A pidgin is a language spoken by people from disparate linguistic backgrounds as a common tongue; there are pidgins in any area where people with different native languages are brought together and are forced to communicate. Pidgins are spontaneous and creative but have no traditions or grammatical expectations or rules.

                            Once a pidgin is established and develops these rules, especially when it has been passed down through generations so that rather than a learned language, it is an inherited language, it becomes a creole; hence, "Hawaiian Creole English."

                            You might feel that you have "ownership" of this language and I can understand that; it is the common language of the islands and I love it; however, to insist that creole is only about Louisiana and white people is sorta like being mad at Van Morrison because his recording of "Brown Eyed Girl" isn't as good as the Ka`au Crater Boys' version.
                            But I'm disturbed! I'm depressed! I'm inadequate! I GOT IT ALL! (George Costanza)
                            GrouchyTeacher.com

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: you talk pidgin?

                              Originally posted by scrivener


                              You might feel that you have "ownership" of this language and I can understand that;
                              uh, no i did not say i have ownership of this language.


                              to insist that creole is only about Louisiana and white people is sorta like being mad at Van Morrison because his recording of "Brown Eyed Girl" isn't as good as the Ka`au Crater Boys' version.

                              uh, no that would not be the case. On both counts.

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