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  • Electronic Voting in Hawaii

    I found this in Hawaii.inet-providers newsgroup.

    http://tinyurl.com/5sb53

    " On September 2nd, a group of concerned citizens met with the
    Office of Elections staff, including Dwayne Yoshina, Chief
    Elections Officer.

    Also present were representatives from Hart Intercivic, makers
    of the eSlate voting machine which Hawaii is making much too
    much use of this year.

    While they are supposedly here for HAVA compliance, in truth
    they're currently planned to be available for use by anyone,
    with 399 of them out on election day (one in every precinct)."
    Check out my blog on Kona issues :
    The Kona Blog

  • #2
    Re: Electronic Voting in Hawaii

    Thanks for the heads up. Without a paper backup (for auditing), I wouldn't touch a "touch screen" voting machine with a ten foot pole. I just mailed in my Absentee Ballot yesterday.

    Here are the articles from the Star-Bulletin and from the Advertiser on the machines. Only the Advertiser notes the concerns over auditing.

    Here's the product information page for the HIC eSlate. From its form factor and its 'one per precinct' deployment, I can see why they were picked to accommodate handicapped voters. Like the handicapped stall in a bathroom, though, I guess they think they have to let other voters "play" if its otherwise not being used.

    I'll definitely write a note to the Office of Elections. I wouldn't care about non-HAVA use if there was a paper component, so I'll at least urge adding that before "full deployment" in future elections.

    I guess I should be happy they're not swiss cheese Diebold systems...
    Last edited by pzarquon; September 10, 2004, 07:56 AM.

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    • #3
      Re: Electronic Voting in Hawaii

      The lack of a paper ballot makes me nervous, too. However, according to the Advertiser article, this machine isn't intended to supplant the existing optically-scanned paper ballots (which work just fine); it's supposed to be an additional option for ADA compliance purposes. Of course, in dead-heat races, those few extra votes from the new machines could tip the balance. But votes that close never happen in real life, right?

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      • #4
        Re: Electronic Voting in Hawaii

        We've had several close races. There was the whole Lingle-Cayetano margin of 1.3 percent in 1998. That same year, Zandra Amaral lost in a Democratic primary for a state House seat on Maui by 90 votes. Alex Sonson lost to Rep. Roy Takumi (D, Pearl City) by nine votes. and Sen. Robert Bunda (D, Wahiawa) beat Gerald Hagino by 15 votes in the Democratic primary.

        With 399 of these new machines out there, a systemwide bug could definitely be an issue.

        Heck, in 1960, JFK took Hawaii (instead of Nixon) by a razor-thin 115 votes. With Hawaii in some polls showing signs of swinging to the right, and with our polls closing last in the nation... an electoral college tie in the other 49 states could turn our poor state into the next Florida.

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        • #5
          Re: Electronic Voting in Hawaii

          Originally posted by pzarquon
          Heck, in 1960, JFK took Hawaii (instead of Nixon) by a razor-thin 115 votes. With Hawaii in some polls showing signs of swinging to the right, and with our polls closing last in the nation... an electoral college tie in the other 49 states could turn our poor state into the next Florida.
          Gag. Lingle would love it, HVCB (or whatever the acronym is these days) would love it, the media would love it, and the rest of us would likely take up arms to avoid it.
          http://www.linkmeister.com/wordpress/

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          • #6
            Re: Electronic Voting in Hawaii

            http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story....9-416480346b1c

            New Voting Procedures Ahead
            By Kenneth R. Conklin, 6/14/2004 12:33:24 AM

            Kenneth Conklin

            This is a description of federally mandated changes in the process of voting,
            implemented in Hawaii for the 2004 elections. It's a highly subjective talk-story from someone at the bottom of the food-chain, calling attention to small signs of big changes ahead. I attended a routine training program for precinct election officials. It turned out to be far from routine. Afterward I thought about what happened, and did some research. This is my report to the class on my "excellent adventure."
            Check out my blog on Kona issues :
            The Kona Blog

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            • #7
              Re: Electronic Voting in Hawaii

              Before anyone rushes out and embraces e-voting, please go to the following links for information on some of the flaws that can occur with the current version of the technology (this could be more disastrous than the dangling chad incident in Florida in 2000).

              Info on security concerns:http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0307/S00065.htm
              http://avirubin.com/vote.pdf

              Info on the current vendors of "black boxes" who currently are in bed with the US government via contributions to various and sundry political causes:
              http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0131-01.htm

              Your right as an American to vote for whoever you choose could be seriously jeopardized unless the black box system your government chooses also issues some sort of receipt to you to prove that your vote has been recorded properly.

              Miulang
              "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

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              • #8
                Re: Electronic Voting in Hawaii

                Before anyone rushes out and embraces e-voting...
                I don't know anyone, and certainly no one here so far, who's embracing e-voting. Most folks I know think it's a bad idea, a prospect whose only supporters seem to be e-voting machine manufacturers and those election officials they've managed to enlist as cheerleaders.

                Bev Harris has collected more information than you can shake a stick at at her Black Box Voting site, and has even posted her entire book on the pitfalls of electronic voting online as PDF files.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Electronic Voting in Hawaii

                  The Star-Bulletin catches up with its own piece on the concerns over these eSlate machines.
                  Observers from the Democratic and Republican parties and the League of Women Voters said the machines, which will be available in all precincts for the primary election Saturday, should be used only by disabled voters.
                  It cites Jason Forester, the same author of the USENET post linked above, representing "Safe Vote Hawaii." They (he?) just launched the site on Tuesday.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Electronic Voting in Hawaii

                    This is more along the lines of Online voting....

                    I find it ironic that kids in Hawaii can vote online at http://www.kidsvotinghawaii.org/ (Even Home schoolers)
                    (however, it's not counted in the real election only the kidsvoting hawaii election... however, it's nice to see how young kids would have voted)

                    But adults aren't given an opportunity to vote in real life online.
                    Last edited by damontucker; November 4, 2006, 04:23 PM.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Electronic Voting in Hawaii

                      Originally posted by manoasurfer123 View Post
                      This is more along the lines of Online voting....

                      But adults aren't given an opportunity to vote in real life online.
                      Manoa: There are too many security risks involved with online voting (even more than with electronic voting machines). Would be way too easy to "hack the vote". I wouldn't want a replay of the 2000 national elections, even though I have a very queasy feeling in the pit of my stomach that any part of the country using electronic voting machines exclusively is going to find their results contested, especially if the results are really whacky.

                      The DoD offered an electronic voting option to all state governments for its service members who wanted to vote but were stationed away from home, but only 8 states took the DoD up on its offer due to the security and privacy issues. Servicemembers apparently are allowed to fax their ballots to the US, though, which is almost as insecure as online voting, unless the faxes go into a secure fax server (as opposed to being printed out).

                      Miulang
                      Last edited by Miulang; November 4, 2006, 04:22 PM.
                      "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Electronic Voting in Hawaii

                        It seems that if they can have absentee ballots... they should at least try and figure out away to eventually do it.

                        I honestly think a hacker would hack banks before an election thing...

                        If banks can keep such secure transactions... it seems somehow they should be able to make online voting secure.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Electronic Voting in Hawaii

                          Originally posted by manoasurfer123 View Post
                          It seems that if they can have absentee ballots... they should at least try and figure out away to eventually do it.

                          I honestly think a hacker would hack banks before an election thing...

                          If banks can keep such secure transactions... it seems somehow they should be able to make online voting secure.
                          Yeah, but I'm not so sure I would trust the government to come up with a way to do ANYTHING securely! For instance, if the US government can have available on a website that is accessible to anyone/anywhere since 1991, plans for building a trigger mechanism in ARABIC for a nuclear weapon to make it easier for the terrorists (to heck with having them have to translate it), then what guarantees could they give me that they wouldn't let someone hack into my personal information? And if they allow that to happen (as opposed to when other organizations lose personal information that face all kinds of legal problems if they allow this to happen), how would the people who are impacted get redress? Can individual citizens sue the government for security breaches? If a class action suit was filed and the government was forced to pay fines, what good would that do? Any money the government paid out in fines to the litigants would have started out in their own pockets in the first place!

                          Oregon and a few other states have gone to 100% mail-in ballots, which makes much more sense than online balloting. The one thing I can't quite figure out about Hawai'i voting is why they open "absentee voting" polling places prior to the actual official day of voting? That must be costing the State lots of money that could be used elsewhere. For people who don't want to or can't vote on election day, why not just let them mail in absentee ballots?

                          Miulang
                          "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Electronic Voting in Hawaii

                            Originally posted by Miulang View Post
                            Yeah, but I'm not so sure I would trust the government to come up with a way to do ANYTHING securely!
                            Using the US Post office as a courier for absentee ballots seems to be trusting the government with your vote.

                            If you can pay your government taxes online... why can't they figure out a way to secure voting online?

                            I'm sure the government secures the money coming in online from those online payments!

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                            • #15
                              Re: Electronic Voting in Hawaii

                              Originally posted by manoasurfer123 View Post
                              Using the US Post office as a courier for absentee ballots seems to be trusting the government with your vote.

                              If you can pay your government taxes online... why can't they figure out a way to secure voting online?

                              I'm sure the government secures the money coming in online from those online payments!
                              Well, you don't exactly pay the government directly when you pay your taxes online, either. You use a credit or debit card (and get charged by the government for that privilege on top of what you owe). The bank that issued your credit/debit card is the one who sends the government your tax money.
                              The federal government does have encrypted methods of receiving money in large amounts from corporate entities, but not from individual citizens.

                              Miulang
                              "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

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