Heiau

[kimo55]

very intrigued with heiau.
wanna know what people think of the supposed tradition of wrapping a rock in ti leaf and leaving it at heiau or other places of significance.

and also; what's the story behind "pork over the pali"?
any anecdotes?

[pzarquon]

Re: Heiau

The "Pork Over the Pali" tale was discussed earlier here. As for paying tribute at heiau, I don't really know myself. I've never entered or passed near one, knowingly at least, and I'll probably try to keep it that way!

But here's an interesting document, posted online as a PDF, titled, "Basic Protocol at Hawaiian Sacred Places." It asserts:

For instance, thousands of visitors and residents go to the various National Parks (i.e., Volcano, Honaunau, Haleakala) and leave an offering of a ti leaf wrapped around a stone. Native Hawaiians are offended by these “stone laulau” offererings that: a. often are stones and ti leaves removed from the sacred site itself, thereby adding to the damage and desecration; b. have no cultural meaning and therefore are considered to be disrespectful and offensive to the “gods” and that place; and c. are left at inappropriate areas throughout the sacred place, thus the offering becomes a desecration in itself.

What should you do? The author says:

Offerings are not required. Your silent prayers or chants are an offering in itself. Most offerings are done in more formalized rituals or ceremonies. The simple rule when making offerings is to bring items of flowers, ferns or other greenery, and non-meat items. If you are unsure, then do not bring anything. If there is no kahu taking care of a sacred place, then the offerings often accumulate and begin to litter the area rather than be an enhancement for the gods.

The site hosting the document is the Northwestern Hawaiian Islands section of KAHEA, the "Hawaiian Environmental Alliance." YMMV!

[Miulang]

Re: Heiau

I really really wanted to go see the Iliiliopae heiau when we were on Molokai last week, but it's on private property and we couldn't contact the owner (or arrange for a local tour guide) to get permission to visit the place.

We have been to one of the largest heiaus in the state (located in Hana) and there's a pretty large one near Wailuku. Whenever I go there, I get this warm feeling of peace and serenity because even though the heiaus now are in some pretty windswept, desolate places, the spirits of the ancient people are still there. And while I'm contemplating things at one of the heiau, I also offer pule for the kanaka maole and their ancestors because if the first Hawaiians had not discovered the islands, lord knows where I'd be today. I don't take any kind of offering with me except for the pule and I hope that the mana from the place will protect me from harm.

Miulang

[Glen Miyashiro]

Re: Heiau

I may not be native Hawaiian, but I know enough about Hawaiian culture to be annoyed when I see those ti-wrapped stones lying around at old heiau. It's disrespectful.

Along the same lines, sometimes I see travel websites that actually encourage visitors to do this and claim that it's a native tradition. Ugh. That's right down there in the gutter along with all that New Age "huna" stuff that actually has nothing to do with Hawai'i except for the stolen name.

[kimo55]

Re: Heiau

I may not be native Hawaiian, but I know enough about Hawaiian culture to be annoyed when I see those ti-wrapped stones lying around at old heiau. It's disrespectful.

Along the same lines, sometimes I see travel websites that actually encourage visitors to do this and claim that it's a native tradition. Ugh. That's right down there in the gutter along with all that New Age "huna" stuff that actually has nothing to do with Hawai'i except for the stolen name.

yep. theres another aspect of this kinda thing;
people jumping on the tiki fad disrespecting the sacred images while turning it into a cartoonish joke.
profane haoles dotting the mainland and giving themselves nicknames like:

akua ku sue.

kanaka

lord wahini

lono.
and claiming ties to Hawaii cuz they like their dizzyland version of "tiki" which is now a decor style. No longer an image of a Polynesian god...

re defining and appropriating Hawaiian words and phrases for their own use;
mana = a positive flow of energy.

heiau;
cemetary.

"the aloha" a physical thing.

crazy world, aint it.

[Glen Miyashiro]

Re: Heiau

Well yeah Kimo, but tiki kitsch is disrespectful in a whole 'nother way. It never claims to be authentic. I don't mind folks poking fun at stuff, even stuff I believe in. After all, I poke fun at other people, so I can't be hypocritical about it. It's folks who claim to be sincere and authentic, who aren't, that bother me.

[kimo55]

Re: Heiau

Well yeah Kimo, but tiki kitsch is disrespectful in a whole 'nother way. It never claims to be authentic.

It's folks who claim to be sincere and authentic, who aren't, that bother me.

thats what i am saying.
many feel they represent Hawaii and think they own the true and only history and legend of the above. claiming to be the only avenue and repository of the history of 'tiki" and then we see, as i state, Hawaiian words and aspects of polynesian history and culture being warped and misrepresented.

[kamlost]

Re: Heiau

Someone should look up a historian to end all these wrong doings and traditions! A lot of the good ones have passed on yah? :\

[Peshkwe]

Re: Heiau

thats what i am saying.
many feel they represent Hawaii and think they own the true and only history and legend of the above. claiming to be the only avenue and repository of the history of 'tiki" and then we see, as i state, Hawaiian words and aspects of polynesian history and culture being warped and misrepresented.

Heh....then there's a full on major twinkie alert over at the HA board!

Ummm...this is a twinkie (it's based in an Ndn culture set, but it'd translate over to Hawaiian real easy):

http://www.geocities.com/planettwinkie/WhatIs.html

[kimo55]

Re: Heiau

Heh....then there's a full on major twinkie alert over at the HA board!

Ummm...this is a twinkie (it's based in an Ndn culture set, but it'd translate over to Hawaiian real easy):

http://www.geocities.com/planettwinkie/WhatIs.html

is the HA board the link you gave?

it was innuresting...
in fak i laughed harrrrrd. verry funny.
and true!
Serge King should se this.


BTW; not that I usually know these things...
but..
a twinkie is a common term in the gay world:

"twinkie: gay slang for a young gay man admired for his good looks and slim build, but not for his intellect"


NOT that there's anything wrong with that!

[Miulang]

Re: Heiau

Heh....then there's a full on major twinkie alert over at the HA board!

Ummm...this is a twinkie (it's based in an Ndn culture set, but it'd translate over to Hawaiian real easy):

http://www.geocities.com/planettwinkie/WhatIs.html

Ho Peshkwe!
I really really like that definition of Twinkie. Never heard of it before, but it sure does make sense...just like "Apple" (red on the outside, white on the inside) and Oreo (black on the outside and white on the inside). Translated to Hawai'i, would a Hawaiian twinkie be a "coconut"?

What's even sadder is that people of color who should be proud of their cultures/heritages very often adopt the white core when faced with the possibility of having to learn about their ancestors (yuck), and instead of standing up to discrimination, take the easier course and adopt the ways of the predominant culture.

The most eye-opening epiphany occurs when a person who was once part of the "predominant" culture gets put in the middle of another community where s/he becomes the minority. Yeow. Talk about role reversal.

Miulang

[Peshkwe]

Re: Heiau

is the HA board the link you gave?

it was innuresting...
in fak i laughed harrrrrd. verry funny.
and true!
Serge King should se this.


BTW; not that I usually know these things...
but..
a twinkie is a common term in the gay world:

"twinkie: gay slang for a young gay man admired for his good looks and slim build, but not for his intellect"


NOT that there's anything wrong with that!

Not that link, this would be the link for the individual in question:

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/bo...727#post200727

But if that 'Twinkie' link made you laugh you should really like this one:

12 Steps For Recovering New Agers

[Peshkwe]

Re: Heiau

Ho Peshkwe!
I really really like that definition of Twinkie. Never heard of it before, but it sure does make sense...just like "Apple" (red on the outside, white on the inside) and Oreo (black on the outside and white on the inside). Translated to Hawai'i, would a Hawaiian twinkie be a "coconut"?

What's even sadder is that people of color who should be proud of their cultures/heritages very often adopt the white core when faced with the possibility of having to learn about their ancestors (yuck), and instead of standing up to discrimination, take the easier course and adopt the ways of the predominant culture.

The most eye-opening epiphany occurs when a person who was once part of the "predominant" culture gets put in the middle of another community where s/he becomes the minority. Yeow. Talk about role reversal.

Miulang

Well in the terms of that site and for most Ndn peeps a 'twinkie' is more the New Age/Cultural thief type person rather than a slam against someone who doesn't act in accordance to an internal cultural role....

The 'apple/coconut' thing is more a slam towards the Ndn acting dominate culture(white) when s/he comes back to the Rez or the Hawaiian coming home from the mainland from college (or working/living away awhile) with a different vocabulary and education and different social habits. The slam comes when their homies are trying to bust chops or the person is getting a bit show-offy and needs to step it back a notch for communications sake, or if an individual has thrown away their culture and heritage (tapping it only when it's convienient) because of being ashamed of it for the most part.

A 'Twinkie' is a person who will take an aspect of a culture's spirituality twist up with some other stuff (each bit possibly true in it's own individual way) and they'll call it true whole cloth...then talk it up with a golden throat. If you dare to confront them they claim you are ignorant, since each thing they do ~is~ true...yup-yup...it is!!...as individual pieces belonging to their own particular culture/thing, mash them together tho and you have a real mess of a lie that has the glamour of truth to it....but lets face it, the best way to lie is to tell part of the truth an then shut the hell up isn't it? Some move on from simple twinkiness to full on 'I'll sell it to ya for a fee' shamans aka Plastic Shame-ons.

A perfect example is the author Mary Summer Rain...she's MAJOR Twinkie...she's a non-Ndn (middle-eastern blood, I think Lebonese) from Westland Michigan (Wasteland...bleh...land of stepford wife suburbia). The biggest plastic shame-on of them all is Sun Bear and his Bear Tribe.

I've noticed y'all are getting the plastic shame-ons scamming folks with the Hawaiian aspects of <cue synthisyzed backgound music and nature effects>OOOoooo...Aaahhhhhhh......SPIRTCHUL-ALITY!!!!

Ten to one with the rock laulau's, it was some new age rock rubbin' bliss bunny that came up with it by mixing Hawaiian stuff with Ndn stuff substituting the ti leaf for a tobacco leaf (which without the rock, would prolly be a good prayer offering if you were Ndn and it was done the right way). Prolly figgerd..."hey I can do the locals one better" and somehow it caught on.

[Ailina]

Re: Heiau

Translated to Hawai'i, would a Hawaiian twinkie be a "coconut"?

So, assuming this term--or a like one--finds its way into usage in Hawai'i, what would distinguish a "coconut" from a brown person who was raised with "white core," but is no less proud of her culture/heritage? Would it apply to only people Born & Raised in Hawai'i who should be "brown/brown"? Or would it also apply to brown people raised on the mainland who enter/reenter Hawaiian society?

Obviously, this thread would make me feel a little uncomfortable, because I really have to go out of my way to learn about where the "brown" part of me came from, and there's an inherent "brown" element that Hawai'i-raised people possess is not inherent in me--either that, or the "white" element is just a lot stronger.

I also wonder if/how "coconut" would apply to other individuals in similar circumstances. For instance, I know a Hawaiian (blood) family...the dad was Born & Raised, but the kids were raised with "white core." They've grown up intensely aware of their Hawaiian heritage; they are culturally Hawaiian as well, but their "white core" is most evident. They enjoy country music (and Hawaiian music), they speak with a noticable Southern accent (but are familiar with the Hawaiian language), they enjoy "white" things...the same kinds of things that typically warrant the term "Oreo" or "Apple" when applied to other races. Would this make them "coconuts," too?

It's an intriguing and disturbing question for me, because here on the mainland, there are so many of us 2nd-generation who feel especially removed from our culture/heritage. Terms like "coconut," though obviously not in use now, feel a little theatening.

I acknowledge it's probably all about context. As with the Twinkie website link--which I thought was funny, too--"Twinkie" or "coconut" might only apply to people who have less than honorable intentions, or as Kimo said, have a tendency to misrepresent and/or warp Hawaiian words and aspects of polynesian history and culture.

It's just that terms like that, that usually have innocent beginnings, usually end up carrying the same stigma as many other tabu words.

My spare change...

[Ailina]

Re: Heiau

Well in the terms of that site and for most Ndn peeps a 'twinkie' is more the New Age/Cultural thief type person rather than a slam against someone who doesn't act in accordance to an internal cultural role....

The 'apple/coconut' thing is more a slam towards the Ndn acting dominate culture(white) when s/he comes back to the Rez or the Hawaiian coming home from the mainland from college (or working/living away awhile) with a different vocabulary and education and different social habits. The slam comes when their homies are trying to bust chops or the person is getting a bit show-offy and needs to step it back a notch for communications sake, or if an individual has thrown away their culture and heritage (tapping it only when it's convienient) because of being ashamed of it for the most part.

I missed this post, because I think we were writing at the same time. You've addressed some of the things I was thinking about as I was writing.