Announcement

**Glen Miyashiro** · May 3, 2004, 10:42 AM

Re: Grading the Public Schools

I have really conflicting emotions about Honolulu's approach to this topic.

On the one hand, as a middle-class parent of public school kids, my knee-jerk reaction is to roll my eyes and dismiss Honolulu as only catering to the "high society" crowd. Between the Gucci ads and the articles on multimillion-dollar architectural renovation projects, it's easy to caricature the magazine's readership as a bunch of Manoa-Nuuanu-Waialae-living, Reyn-Spooner-wearing, rich private school snobs who always look down on the public schools anyway. But that would be unfair, and more to the point, it would be an ad hominem attack that didn't address the article itself.

On the other hand, no one is denying that the public schools are pretty messed up, and could be doing a lot better. Even Pat Hamamoto, the DOE superintendent, says so. Average math and reading scores are low. Classrooms are in terrible condition, and school supplies are meager. And while there are plenty of dedicated hard-working teachers in the public schools, there are also some who are just plain incompetent (and almost no way to get rid of them).

But simply listing the effects of the problem, as I just did, is the easiest and least controversial part. All the other questions are a lot harder: what's causing these effects? what should we do about it? and how can we measure progress in making things better?

In my opinion, Honolulu's article doesn't offer any real help on any of these questions. On the surface, it looks like a straightforward ranking - but the devil is in the details. Honolulu clearly explains how the numerical ranks were calculated, and I take their word that the source data are all as they say. But I have problems with the way they amalgamated the source data, and the underlying assumptions they are making about what these data actually mean.

As pzarquon mentioned, the scores are an average of the following percentages:

a poll of students: given a choice, would you attend your school?
a poll of parents: would you recommend your child's school to others?
a poll of teachers: would you recommend your school to others?
% of students at the school who meet state standards

Clearly, the goal is for all of these measures to be at 100% for every school. But does it do any good to put these numbers together and use them to rank the schools? Does it really tell us anything useful, that helps us with identifying causes and suggesting solutions? I don't think it does. For starters, what good does it do to lump "satisfaction" in with test scores? They seem like apples and oranges to me. You sometimes have schools with low test scores but an enthusiastic community, or less often, vice versa. Another problem I have with this article is that they "graded" the schools on a curve, assigning an even distribution of A through F grades, rather than an absolute scale. I think it was rather gimmicky and done solely to fit with the 'school' theme.

If anything, the article really only accomplishes two things. One, it sells copy because everyone is curious as to how their own school ranks. You buy the issue, look up your school, and you can be smug or ambivalent or relieved or embarrassed, as appropriate. (Given the magazine's readership, probably the first.) And two, it is possible that the low-ranked schools might be shamed into trying to improve their rank, as one school principal is quoted as doing with last year's article.

I guess what annoys me the most about this article is that it doesn't really help. It doesn't analyze causes. It doesn't offer solutions. All it does is put together a list, based on numbers that in my opinion may not even be appropriately averaged. But then again, it's not a DOE report with figures and footnotes and analysis, it's an article in a popular magazine. Maybe I was expecting too much.

**scrivener** · May 3, 2004, 04:03 PM

Re: Grading the Public Schools

Uuurrrrrgh! This is the third time I'm typing this response, because I keep hitting the ESC key instead of the OKINA key!

You should have seen the first response, too, because it was terrific. The second try was okay, but not nearly as good as the first. So this version should be utter crap, but I'll press on.

I don't fault Honolulu its report. The article never claims to be a measuring device by which the actual quality of schools is judged (at least, it didn't last year). It's clear, from the published criteria, that this is a report on attitudes people have toward their schools, and that's valuable in itself, even if it only repeats what people might already know.

Yes, the survey is weighted in a way that favors schools in more affluent neighborhoods. There's something to be gained in knowing this, but I'll get to that later. I'd rather give my interpretation of these numbers first.

Children in wealthy neighborhoods are going to appreciate the education they're being given because that's what they're taught. They are unlikely to miss school except in appropriate circumstances, and they are likely to have some concept of "the future" and education's role in it. They might not love the work, but they'll understand (for the most part) that the work is necessary if they're going to grow up and live the lives their parents live.

Parents who live in these neighborhoods, understanding the value of education, will not settle for something they find dissatisfying in their children's schooling. They are likely to understand where problem areas are, and they are likely to do something about them. Nuuanu Elementary, for example, long known as one of the better public elementary schools on the island, had parent-funded and parent-administered before- and after-school programs long before the Waihee administration launched the A-Plus program.

Of course, you know what happens then. Parents from other areas are drawn to neighborhoods such as Nuuanu because of the school--parents who have the same values. When the parent-population is surveyed, these are not going to be the parents who express dissatisfaction with the school.

Then, there are the teachers. When schools such as Nuuanu, Ma`ema`e, and Noelani have such supportive parents and such dedicated students, they attract teachers. This gives administrators the freedom to choose the teachers that will fit in and work with the system that's in place. Better teachers mean better students. Better students mean happier parents. Happier parents mean better teachers.

In environments such as this, standards-based testing is not an unfair assessment tool.

Now compare that to schools in rural areas. No, rural does not mean "poor," necessarily, but it does mean, as a rule, less-educated parents. It also means, in Hawaii's case, a culture that values family so much that school will often be given second priority on a more regular basis. Attendance is often not stressed by parents in these communities, and family or work situations often make it difficult for parents to regulate students' attendance. Many of these parents don't just work hard--they work hard just to scrape by, often at more than one job. No matter how you look at it, this is just not conducive to active parental leadership in influencing the direction a school can move in.

It's not an appealing environment for teachers, whose jobs are difficult enough as it is without having to be social workers, too, so the rural schools tend to be stepping-stones for young teachers waiting for opportunities closer to home and in more supportive neighborhoods. I have been told on a few occasions of young teachers at Moloka`i High who fly home to Oahu on Friday afternoons and fly back on Sunday evenings. And no matter what anyone tells you, even great young teachers struggle in their first couple of years--it's okay, though, because they get better. But if they get better and then move on to other schools, the rural schools ALWAYS have the first- and second-year teachers.

All this would be enough to affect standards-based assessment, but when you throw in the higher immigrant populations at these schools, it's almost a can't-win battle. The unions won't let schools pay rural teachers more, and the state won't adjust standards for ESL students. How is a school with an immigrant population of 50% supposed to measure up to schools with children who will be third- and fourth-generation college graduates? At schools such as Honowai Elementary (where I went to school from third through sixth grades), the teachers should consider it a triumph just to have the seats full of students who make meaningful progress in a foreign place, speaking a foreign language.

An interesting study is Pearl Ridge Elementary, where I worked in the A-Plus program for a semester in the program's inaugural year. Pearl Ridge draws kids from the upper-income Royal Summit and from the much lower-income surrounding area (the school is located right behind Kam Drive-In, very close to several low-income apartment complexes). The administration at this school has worked hard--really hard--to instill in its students a meaningful sense of school pride. Its students have won national awards for work created in its high-tech video-editing lab, which has increased the school's exposure and reputation. I'm not knowledgable enough about the school to draw any credible conclusions, but here's a school that has a lot going against it, yet remains in the top ten. It seems to me that strong leadership and good teachers can go a long way in establishing a school's rep. Of course, Pearl Ridge's central location doesn't hurt it, either.

There's got to be more to the article than its allowing its readers the chance to gloat. Remember, Honolulu readership has a stake in what's going on in rural schools, too--educated, employed people are less likely to end up in need of public assistance and are less likely to commit property crimes. It's in the best interest of the magazine's readership to look at the disparity here and figure out what it's going to do about it, because it's a very small island.

**dick** · June 9, 2004, 12:19 AM

Re: Grading the Public Schools

I hear people weeping about the public school system here all the time. As a product of public schools (Kula Elementary, Maui High) and UH Manoa, I can say that it all worked out well for me (even though I may not be the brightest bulb in the scoreboard). What many don't want to accept is that school is what you make of it. Just going there won't do a thing for you. Students actually have to study, and this involves studying outside of school. This is what education is all about. School is only one part of the equation. If there is no support at home, even the best school can't do a thing. A friend of mine had the same public education as I did, and is now a professor of mathematics at Harvard. But he did a helluva lot of studying outside the classroom. If you want it bad enough, you can get anything you want. One of the big things about private schools is that the parents have so much invested in that education they'll make sure thier kids learn all that they can and make it worth the money.

**Mocha** · June 9, 2004, 10:24 AM

Re: Grading the Public Schools

You said it very succinctly Dick...education IS what you make of it. We were very fortunate to have saved money early enough to spend on sending our kids to private schools. I think they would have done fine at public schools but we had gone to private schools so wanted to give our kids the "privilege" also. The kids really do appreciate the sacrifice...they tell us now. They all have good jobs and are self-sufficient. BRAVO to you for telling it how it is.

**aleno** · June 9, 2004, 10:52 AM

Re: Grading the Public Schools

As a product of Public schools in Hawaii, I agree with all of you.
I also believe more parent participation is key to the education of the children. Most of the parents probably didn't get much out of school, especially those they say thought of family before school.
The survey should only be used as a tool to regain control of parents having a say in the way schools are being runned. It would be nice to have your school at the top of the list but more community involvement is necessary. More parents need to take responsibility for their childrens education and become involved with the future of their children.

**Mocha** · June 9, 2004, 11:07 AM

Re: Grading the Public Schools

Unfortunately at schools where there should be more parent involvement...the parents are working 2+ jobs and can't take the time to attend meetings at the school. Private schools have their own problems too...and some of the parents close their eyes to the problems telling the school to "just deal with it".

**dick** · June 10, 2004, 12:53 AM

Re: Grading the Public Schools

Yeah, parent involvement is key. And I do realize that a big problem is that many here have to work so hard to stay afloat, so they don't always have the time and energy to devote what they should to thier childrens' educations. And that in and of itself is a sad commentary on the state of affairs in Hawaii. I consider myself fortunate and thankful that my parents were so bent on my doing well in school. The threat always lurked in the background that if I did poorly I'd be sent to a private school. I wanted to hang with my friends who all went to public schools (strange incentive, I know). My dad went to Punahou, and wasn't all that big on public schools (he cringed at my choosing UH Manoa, but it had one of the best programs in the country for my major - which is why I chose to go there), but agreed to give it a shot as long as I applied myself.

**pzarquon** · June 10, 2004, 06:29 AM

Re: Grading the Public Schools

Not so strange! I considered private school a disincentive as well. My dad loves to tell the story of how, after he got through all the hoops you needed to jump through to get an application into Kamehameha Schools, I went to the interview. The staffer asked, "So, why do you want to come to Kamehameha Schools?" My answer was, "I don't." It was a very short interview.

I liked my public school experience, although I may have been in the minority. I say this even though I was the typical sci-fi geek outcast with bad skin, and a popular target of all sorts of pranks and harassment (particularly in Intermediate School). The masochist that I am, I see all that now more as "character building." I might not be a Stanford grad working at a New York law firm, but compared to some of my peers, I think I turned out okay nonetheless.

Besides... there are bad apples in every bunch. I'm sure we all have a story or two of the "child prodigy" that went off the rails.

To me, I see in myself a good exhibit in the "parenting counts" argument. I went to Lunalilo Elementary and Washington Intermediate, both "urban" schools, and was surrounded by heaps of bad influences (and got picked up by the cops myself more than once). Yet, people who meet me today figure I went to Punahou or Iolani, and it takes effort to speak pidgin. (Not that pidgin is a bad thing... I'd speak it well if I could!) The fact of the matter is, I'm more a product of my parents than I am of my schools, and both of them worked. Heck, my dad was in the Army Reserves and eventually divorced my mom, so I barely saw him. Yet, to my chagrin, a lot of folks say I'm a spittin' image of him.

I agree, the challenges for parents are only greater today. My wife stays home with the kids, but that's a nearly impossible luxury for most, and we make some pretty tough sacrifices to make it happen. But for parents who try, I think they have a great chance at raising great kids... at least versus those kids who are just left entirely in the hands of the state.

**Eric** · June 10, 2004, 08:33 AM

Re: Grading the Public Schools

Originally posted by pzarquon

Not so strange! I considered private school a disincentive as well. My dad loves to tell the story of how, after he got through all the hoops you needed to jump through to get an application into Kamehameha Schools, I went to the interview. The staffer asked, "So, why do you want to come to Kamehameha Schools?" My answer was, "I don't." It was a very short interview.

Ha! My cousin tells a similar story about his son, who he badgered into an Iolani interview and aptitude test. The boy took the test... and got every single question wrong. On purpose. Now that takes talent!

**dick** · June 11, 2004, 02:21 AM

Re: Grading the Public Schools

The pidgin thing is an interesting theory. I was prohibited from speaking pidgin when at home, but encouraged to speak it with friends. Why? My dad, who grew up in Honolulu could speak it fluently, and knew that it was an important part of living in Hawaii, but at the same time knew that in order to function in "the real world" one needed to know how to speak "proper" English, without a pidgin accent. I consider myself trilingual (pidgin, English, Japanese (of all things)). I spoke "full-pidgin" when in school with my friends, yet was in advanced English throughout school. People take one look at me and think I'm from Seattle, but when I start talking, it's a different story.

**Kekaha Roots** · June 17, 2006, 01:38 PM

Re: Grading the Public Schools

Originally posted by dick

I hear people weeping about the public school system here all the time. As a product of public schools (Kula Elementary, Maui High) and UH Manoa, I can say that it all worked out well for me (even though I may not be the brightest bulb in the scoreboard). What many don't want to accept is that school is what you make of it. Just going there won't do a thing for you. Students actually have to study, and this involves studying outside of school. This is what education is all about. School is only one part of the equation. If there is no support at home, even the best school can't do a thing. A friend of mine had the same public education as I did, and is now a professor of mathematics at Harvard. But he did a helluva lot of studying outside the classroom. If you want it bad enough, you can get anything you want. One of the big things about private schools is that the parents have so much invested in that education they'll make sure thier kids learn all that they can and make it worth the money.

I'm a few years late to this thread, but I believe you've hit the nail on the head. IMO, education is what you make of it. I strongly believe the more support and active participation that a parent has with their children, the better they will do in school. Even though my daughter went to a Blue Ribbon school, my wife & I still had to dedicate a lot of time with her each week to ensure that she was getting all of the educational concepts down.

**damontucker** · June 17, 2006, 03:18 PM

Re: Grading the Public Schools

Originally posted by dick

The pidgin thing is an interesting theory. I was prohibited from speaking pidgin when at home, but encouraged to speak it with friends. Why? My dad, who grew up in Honolulu could speak it fluently, and knew that it was an important part of living in Hawaii, but at the same time knew that in order to function in "the real world" one needed to know how to speak "proper" English, without a pidgin accent. I consider myself trilingual (pidgin, English, Japanese (of all things)). I spoke "full-pidgin" when in school with my friends, yet was in advanced English throughout school. People take one look at me and think I'm from Seattle, but when I start talking, it's a different story.

Dick that's funny... Me being from the Northwest... I would say you look like you come from the Northwest...

Now the funnier thing... I used to have a people tell me "you look local...until you open your mouth"

Now that I've lived here for 10 years plus... When I see tourists... I pretend to talk the worst pidgeon that I possibly can... !!! and they get a big kick out of thinking they are talking "Hawaiian" with a local

and I dunno any Hawaiian!

**lissy** · July 4, 2006, 03:03 PM

Re: Grading the Public Schools

I have a question that I would like to pose to you all. I am moving to the island with a group called Teach For America. Fifty-seven of us have been chosen to teach on the Leeward coast in many of the schools that are now struggling. I will be teaching special education in the 4th and 5th grade at Nanaikapono in Nanakuli. I am a new teacher, but my plan is to continue to teach in the schools that need me the most throughout my career. My father has done so for thirty-five years in the most struggling schools in New York, I hope to do so in Hawaii.

I am moving to the island with three of my own children. I have a ten year old daughter, a five year old son and a 14 month old baby girl. I am considering moving to the Makaha Valley Plantation for two reasons. One is simple economics, it is hard to get by with a teachers salary anywhere in the world. The second reason is that I would like to live near to the community I teach in since I realize that I have a lot to learn from community members about the culture and norms of the community. Also, I would like to be near my students and their families so I can have greater access to them and a better chance to help them.

That being said, I am concerned about where Iwill send my own children to school. I researched Makaha Elementary which seems to have the same test scores as many of the "better" schools on the island, if not slightly lower. I am looking for advice from people that live on the island as to whether or not you would advise me to live in Makaha with my children. I am looking to make the best decision for them, and am the first to admit that I have a lot to learn about Hawaii the Island and the culture of Hawaii. I thank you in advance for any advice you give me, it is truly appreciated.

Thank you,

Lissette

**damontucker** · July 4, 2006, 03:58 PM

Re: Grading the Public Schools

Lizz, I work for the DOE...

I commend you on what you are doing.

Unless you are planning on sending your children to a private school.
I believe you will need to send your children to a school that is in the place of your geographic region.

You may apply for a GE (Geographic Exemption) http://doe.k12.hi.us/ge/index.htm

That way maybe you could send them to a school closer to the one that you are teaching at... or even the school that you are actually teaching at.

I wish you the best of luck. You can also get general information at:http://doe.k12.hi.us/

Manoa

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