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  • Welcome to the newest police state!

    You thought things were scary in this country now? It'll only get worse if the legislation mentioned in the link passes in Congress. It is a direct response to the findings of the 9-11 Commission Report. Me? I think it's still got too many holes in it...lots of innocent people are going to get caught in this quagmire, and we're talking about law-abiding citizens who maybe disagree in public about national policy or who practice a Middle Eastern religion.

    "Say nothing, do nothing and nothing will happen to you." Here comes the Patriot Act 3.

    An aside: If you try to obtain credit today and decline to provide your social security number on the form, you will be denied credit (and probably be put on some terrorist list). When the Social Security Act was created in 1938 or so, use of the SS# was limited to reporting on a person's wages to determine how much social security they are entitled to when they retire. For the longest time, we were told that our SS#s were not supposed to be used as ID verification. Now, even newborns are given SS#. You know why? Because the government wants to track your whereabouts from the time you're born, that's why. To claim a child on your tax return, what do you need to provide? That child's SS#.

    After I had my little epiphany while trying to buy a $2k bed (and I could have paid cash for it, but wanted to use someone else's money for 6 months, interest free), I went to the SS site and lo and behold, within the last 3 years, the SS Act has been amended so that financial institutions can require that you provide a social security number for any banking transactions. And if you want to make a hefty down payment or pay for a house in cash, they want you to verify where that money came from and they will actually hold up a loan until they can verify where the money came from (they are checking to see if you're a drug lord). If you're over 12 and don't have a SS# yet, when you apply for the number, the SSA will come out and interview you to make sure you're who you say you are. And you can't get any kind of job in the US without having a SS#.

    We don't have a national ID card yet, but they are getting very serious about having one in England (this is not the same as your passport, which as we all know, can be forged). Maybe that microchip in the palm is not such a farfetched notion after all...although the number of people walking around with no right hands (there might be a black market for those chips) will grow exponentially. Not to be irreverent or anything, but some people might call that "the mark of the beast".

    Read here for some commentary on the new "Patriot Act III" Bill that was just introduced in Washington DC this morning.

    http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/092504V.shtml

    Miulang
    "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

  • #2
    Re: Welcome to the newest police state!

    Speaking of the Patriot Act, the courts are taking apart the original version, piece by sordid piece. Today's latest :


    U.S. District Judge Victor Marreo ruled in favor of the American Civil Liberties Union, which challenged the power the FBI has to demand confidential financial records from companies as part of terrorism investigations. (Full article here)

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    • #3
      Re: Welcome to the newest police state!

      Originally posted by Glen Miyashiro
      Speaking of the Patriot Act, the courts are taking apart the original version, piece by sordid piece. Today's latest :
      Yeah, but another part of the article says the judge is staying his order pending the appeal by the US Government. Sheesh. Da guy no moah dakine cojones or what? I tink da ting going go all da way to da US Supreme Court now. By dat time, we no going have any civil rights or privacy protection!!!!

      Miulang
      "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

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      • #4
        Re: Welcome to the newest police state!

        Geeks normally tend to be very apolitical (they're usually too busy with their noses glued to their monitors ) so when a story like this comes out, you kinda have to sit up and at least consider what's being said.

        This article relates to the 2 bills (one in the House and one in the Senate) that grew out of recommendations from the 9/11 Commission report. Be afraid...be very afraid for your civil liberties if the House bill wins! (The Senate bill ain't that great either, but like with this Presidential election, is the lesser of the 2 evils).

        Miulang

        Here: http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1009_22-5...tag=zdnn.alert
        "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Welcome to the newest police state!

          Here's another geek article reporting on the recommendation from a former presidential advisor about having better IDs for every American to help reduce terrorism in this country. He backs away from advocating a national ID card like the one they're proposing in Britain and instead wants to put the burden on each state to beef up its drivers' licenses with biometrics, etc. stuff that's no longer just Flash Gordon but which will cost each state beaucoup bux. I say fogedabout this idea and just go with the implanted chip! (just being facetious)

          Miulang

          More here: http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1009_22-5...tag=zdnn.alert
          "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Welcome to the newest police state!

            as I was cruising around the pages of the Moscow Times this evening, I came across this very interesting column about how secretive the Russian government was, and it sorta kinda reminded me of the direction this country was headed. Shades of justification for our being in Iraq!

            Take a gander and tell me what you think...seems to me only the geography has changed but the tactics are very very similar: http://www.themoscowtimes.com/storie...10/19/009.html

            Miulang
            "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Welcome to the newest police state!

              We already knew that you had to swear an oath of allegiance to the Prez if you wanted to be in one of his audiences, and now comes word out of little Jacksonville, OR, where the Prez put in an appearance last week that describes how "protestors" were beaten and hit with pepper shot. Protestors who were men, women and children trying to express their 1st Amendment right to free speech were put down by the strongarm tactics of the local SWAT team. This is getting really really scary. Will the right to speak opposing views continue to be squashed if the current Administration wins the election? I fear so.

              The article below appears as a guest editorial in the Lone Star Iconoclast, the Crawfordville, TX hometown newspaper of the current President. Read the eyewitness account and shudder. BTW: I don't think this ever made the news anywhere else...I wonder why???

              Here is an excerpt of the eyewitness account:
              "I write this from my home in Jacksonville Oregon (population 2,226). President George W. Bush came here this week. The purpose of his visit was political. Southern Oregon has been deemed a “battle ground” area in the presidential race. John Kerry has made incredible inroads in this traditionally Republican stronghold. President Bush’s campaign stop was an attempt to staunch the slide. ...
              This week it was a different scene. Police armed with high powered rifles perched upon our rooftops as the presidential motorcade approached. Helicopters flew low, overhead. A cadre of motorcycle police zoomed into town. Black SUVs followed, sandwiching several black limousines carrying the president, his wife and their entourage as they sped to the local inn where they would eat and sleep.
              The main street was lined with people gathered to witness the event. Many supported the president. Many did not. Some came because they were simply curious. There were men, women, young and old. The mood was somewhat festive. Supporters of John Kerry sported signs, as did supporters of George Bush. Individuals, exercising their rights of free speech began chanting. On one side of the street, shouts of “four more years” echoed in the night air. On the other side of the street, chants of “three more weeks” responded. The chants were loud and apparently could be heard by President Bush. An order was issued that the anti-Bush rhetoric be quieted. The local SWAT team leapt to action.
              It happened fast. Clad in full riot gear, at least 50 officers moved in. Shouting indecipherable commands from a bullhorn, they formed a chain and bore down upon the people, only working to clear the side of the street appearing to be occupied by Kerry supporters. People tried to get out of their way. It was very crowded. There was nowhere to move. People were being crushed. They started flowing into the streets. Pleas to the officers, asking, “where to go” fell upon deaf ears. Instead, riot police fired pellets of cayenne pepper spray into the crowd. An old man fell and couldn’t get up. When a young man stopped to help, he was shot in the back with hard pepper spray balls. Children were hit with pepper spray. Deemed “Protesters” people were shoved and herded down the street by the menacing line of armed riot police, until out of the President’s ear-shot. ...One 19 year- old man shouted obscenities at anyone expressing dissatisfaction with the president, encouraging the police to “tazar” the “Stinking Protesters.” Neither the “Protestors,” nor the police harassed this vocal young man. Across the street, individuals shouting support for the president were allowed to continue. Officers monitored this group but allowed them to shout words of support or hurl derisions toward Kerry supporters, undisturbed. ..."


              The entire story here:
              http://www.iconoclast-texas.com/Colu...t/guest42a.htm

              Miulang
              Last edited by Miulang; October 18, 2004, 06:35 PM.
              "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Welcome to the newest police state!

                More evidence of the Administration's "pre-emptive" tactics against terrorism. More than 700 Muslim and Arabic-American people in the US were questioned and/or held during the days leading up to the elections for no other reason than that they were Arab.

                I guess the Administration could claim that their efforts prevented a terrorist attack somewhere in the country from happening during the elections, but the country will never know if the reason that didn't happen was because of the detentions.

                No wonder John Ashcroft wants to ride off into the sunset.

                http://www.thehawaiichannel.com/news...25/detail.html

                Miulang
                "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                Comment

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