Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The Debates: Foreign Policy

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • The Debates: Foreign Policy

    Tonight was the first of three schedule debates between George W. Bush and John F. Kerry. Held in Florida, the topic was foreign policy. Did you tune in? Catch any of the soundbites and clips? Read the blow-by-blow by blogs?

    CSPAN was the best outlet to watch. They just kept a steady split screen showing both candidates, all the time. So much for the meticulous and restrictive demands of the debate agreement. And while the candidates did play by the rules, the exchange turned out to be a tad more lively and spontaneous than most predicted.

    Of course, fans of both camps are claiming victory. Some are saying a draw.

    I don't think there were any knock-out blows, or deal breakers. I'd score it 65/35 in Kerry's favor, which is nice, but won't turn the tide.

    Kerry fans were encouraged by Bush's awkwardness and almost unbelievable repetition (and their candidate's sudden ability to not ramble on for once). Bush fans howled at Kerry's "pass the global test" line. Kerry came across as resolute and sure, defying much of how he's been framed by the Bush camp. Bush, at least at times, was gracious (not taking the "character flaw" bait) and playful (though I think the "leash" remark about his daughters will ruffle some feathers). Lots of material to seize on and argue about until the next one, at the very least.

    I don't suppose those of us strongly in one camp or the other were swayed at all. I wonder how the all-important undecideds will judge the proceedings?
    12
    George W. Bush
    25.00%
    3
    John F. Kerry
    66.67%
    8
    Draw
    8.33%
    1

  • #2
    Re: The Debates: Foreign Policy

    For the 5 or 10 minutes that I watched the darn thing, the thing I noticed most (and I was watching this on CBS, I think, which also had a split screen of both candidates--wasn't that against the rules?) was Bush looking very grumpy at times but mostly looking like one of those deer caught in the headlights of an oncoming car that's going about 80 mph!

    Man, if that had been a real debate, you can bet Kerry would have been at Dubya's jugular...reminds me of the analogy I came up with one day about the difference between a data geek (code cruncher) and an IT analyst:
    A data geek is very focused on the task in front of him, to the exclusion of everything else around him. An analyst is very big picture oriented and is always looking at all the alternatives. You need both kinds of people to have a successful organization, but you have to be careful who you select for which kind of job.

    A CEO, for instance, should never be a data geek. Because once he gets fixated on doing one thing, he shuts everything else out. He will lead his staff/troops over a cliff รก la lemming style because he will never see the cliff...he is only honed in on his objective. He will do his appointed task, on time and on budget, most of the times as long as you leave him alone.

    An analyst, on the other hand, is contantly searching for alternatives. It will take him forever to come up with an answer because he is always thinking there's a better way to do things. He is constantly distracted by other things but when he finally totes up all the input he has received, he will generally come up with a better answer. An analyst is more of a strategic thinker.

    From the sound byte I saw last night, I think Bush is more of a geek. He kinda sorta admitted (or maybe I was hallucinating this) that maybe the war in Iraq was wrong but he couldn't--wouldn't--change course because that would look bad to the troops. He had to remain constant in his resolve, no matter what. So he wants to save face while his troops in Afghanistan and Iraq are getting their asses wiped? Hmmm...

    Miulang
    "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.โ€ --Mark Twain

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: The Debates: Foreign Policy

      No doubt last night's debate was Kerry's albeit by a small margin. It certainly gave me much more confidence in Kerry's ability to lead than I gave him credit for. As for Bush, LOL... He scored a couple of points but overall what I got out of the whole 90 minutes from him was a bit of amusement from his splenetic antics.
      He leo wale no...

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: The Debates: Foreign Policy

        I listened on the radio, so don't know if they violated the rule against "making faces".

        In style, I think Kerry was the clear winner. (Is there anyone without a life who has counted the number of times Bush2 said "uh" ... )

        At one point Bush2 sounded so distressed I wondered if he would cry.

        In substance .... well, I did have to agree with Bush2 (a VERY rare event) when he opposed Kerry's notion that the USA should conduct direct discussions with North Korea, instead of including China and Japan. I'd be more in favor of leaving the entire thing to China and Japan. It's in their backyard, and they probably have far more influence than we do.

        And I really doubt that Kerry has the ability to form a worldwide "alliance" to deal with the mess we've made in Iraq. Would France and Germany be more likely to get involved with Kerry in control? Most doubtful.

        Outside Hamilton Library this morning there were people shouting at me "register to vote!" I shouted back, "give me someone worth voting for!"

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: The Debates: Foreign Policy

          I thought Kerry won it by a mile; Bush once again sounded like his IQ is lower than his age. Especially loved it when Bush commented about Iraq causing 9/11 instead of Al Qaeda.

          Also loved Bush's comment "I know how the world works."

          Too many polls are taken with just a miniscule random sampling, so I found it interesting to see the poll currently at CNN.com. When asked who won the debate, as of 10:30 this morning they had 735,840 responses:

          John Kerry 71% 519,942
          George Bush 22% 158,670
          Tie 8% 57,228

          Don't know how long they'll keep that poll open, but.
          .
          .

          That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: The Debates: Foreign Policy

            It seemed to me that Bush used words like "absurd" and "ludicrous" quite often when talking about Kerry's statements. It sounded like he was in denial.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: The Debates: Foreign Policy

              Regarding North Korea, the Chinese have repeatedly asked the US to get into bilateral discussions with the Koreans, contrary to what Bush kept saying about the six-party talks collapsing if we did so. That was one of the points made in the "Debate Referee" section of the WaPo today.

              If you didn't see the video, Albert, you missed a display. Bush looked "petulant," according to the NYT. According to me, he just looked like he really didn't want to be there and saw no reason why he should be questioned at all; that's understandable, since he's apparently surrounded by "yes-men" and all his campaign crowds are vetted in advance for their support.
              http://www.linkmeister.com/wordpress/

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: The Debates: Foreign Policy

                "Bush looked "petulant," according to the NYT. According to me, he just looked like he really didn't want to be there"

                Sounds like that amazing sequence in "Fahrenheit 911" in the schoolroom.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: The Debates: Foreign Policy

                  Albert, the debate is available online for viewing if you like. C-SPAN has the split-screen version that pzarquon mentioned.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: The Debates: Foreign Policy

                    Originally posted by Albert
                    "Bush looked "petulant," according to the NYT.
                    Go to http://www.democrats.org/ and see a 30-second video of all the faces Bush made during the debate!
                    (Mahalo to Ian Lind for the site.)
                    .
                    .

                    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: The Debates: Foreign Policy

                      Prairie Home Companion this weekend was very amusing about the debate. I hope Bush2 wasn't listening.

                      And someone was counting. Garison said Bush2 used "mixed signals" 14 times.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: The Debates: Foreign Policy

                        I saw maybe half of the thing, and Bush did look annoyed, as if he felt like "Hey, I am the PRESIDENT and I shouldn't have to do this!" LOL, and were I the most powerful man in the world, I think I would have felt the same way, like "dang, those pesky debates."

                        I don't think debates swing any voters, and I haven't ever really trusted the honesty of people that claim to be undecided a month before such a major election. I think Kerry looked better that day, but problem for Kerry is that the way one presents their self in a public debate isn't one of my criteria for choosing a president. What he stands for, and will do for this country IS.

                        Kerry kept saying he has a plan, for Iraq, but he won't admit what that plan is. LOL...cute ploy, but not honest. He says the war was a mistake, and that isn't going to encourage or endear our troops to him, nor help him get any but a tiny minority of their vote. I don't trust or respect Kerry, he isn't open with his plans, except he is making the news that he will still give IRAN Nuclear Fuel!! Oh yeah baby...what a smart man he is, or a fool?

                        Terrorism is a huge threat, I intuitively expect more on our soil, and I do not feel safe when I think of Kerry at the helm, plus so many that served with him in the military said he was a loose cannon. Made me think of Hillary clinton, and how they are probably each other's alter egos, YECH.

                        Kerry can talk real good. (G) How nice! That is one of the few things I can say about him that are good. I suspect Kerry can talk real good like the proverbial snake in the grass, oh yeah, he can talk, deceive, and is mostly all talk, not substance or action.

                        Kerry thinks we can NEGOTIATE with our enemies, with terrorists! He said he would, as president, still give Iran fuel for nuclear capabilities "if Iran pledges to use it for peaceful capabilities!!" LOL GOOD GRIEF, oh yeah, and they would never lie to us, would they, so he'd hand it over.

                        YOu feel safe voting this man into office?

                        Anything but Bush...that mentality will harm us all, and generations to come.

                        God Help us, if Kerry squeaks out a victory. I doubt he will, and God help us, seriously, if he does.
                        Stop being lost in thought where our problems thrive.~

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: The Debates: Foreign Policy

                          Karen, if you can make a case for Bush as an employee (CEO) of the shareholders (we the people) not being fired, please do.

                          That doesn't mean making the case for why Kerry shouldn't be hired; I've seen all of your reasons why you think that's a bad idea. Just explain why Bush has done such a superlative job in your mind that he should be rehired.
                          http://www.linkmeister.com/wordpress/

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: The Debates: Foreign Policy

                            Originally posted by Karen
                            I saw maybe half of the thing, and Bush did look annoyed, as if he felt like "Hey, I am the PRESIDENT and I shouldn't have to do this!" LOL, and were I the most powerful man in the world, I think I would have felt the same way, like "dang, those pesky debates."
                            That's the difference between democracies and monarchies: in democracies, the leaders are accountable to their people. I don't think Bush is all that keen on that idea. It makes for all sorts of trouble when you have to answer all those irritating questions.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: The Debates: Foreign Policy

                              Have you guys seen the buggah who found a loophole in the Florida election rules that allows anyone with a Florida address and/or the stated intention of residing in Florida to get a Florida ballot? He's appealing to all the carpetbagger snowbirdies from the north who winter in FL to register in FL because NY is not a swing state.

                              Bet Katherine Harris, her successor and Jebbie are red faced over that one. Can they now hurriedly change their laws to close this loophole?

                              I heard on a radio show after the debates one political pundit talking about "voting strategically". She said if you don't reside in one of the swing states where the vote is going to be too close to call, make sure you vote and vote for Kerry and not for any of the other candidates. Because a no/abstain vote = a vote for Bush. The object of the voting strategically group is not so much to vote Kerry in as it is to vote Bush out.

                              Miulang
                              Last edited by Miulang; October 4, 2004, 09:33 AM.
                              "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.โ€ --Mark Twain

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X