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The Debates: Vice Presidential Candidates

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  • The Debates: Vice Presidential Candidates

    Vice President Dick Cheney and Democratic VP candidate John Edwards will meet tonight in their only one-on-one match up before the Nov. 2 election. While veep debates rarely garner much attention compared to debates between the people who top their respective tickets, an unusual amount of weight is being assigned to this event given last week's Bush/Kerry debate, the close presidential race, and, of course, because of how much influence this particular incumbent has had over our nation's policies.

    Expect Cheney to continue to assert that Bush's policies are the right ones, to emphasize his extensive political and business background, and to continue the direct attacks on Kerry (which is, of course, the job of the VP). Look to Edwards to try and assuage concerns about his relative inexerience, to reframe Cheney's political and business background (Halliburton, anyone?), and to hold Cheney to his sometimes over-aggressive words.

    The debate begins at 3 p.m. HST, and I'll catch what I can on KHPR. Chances are, though, I'll depend more on the transcripts, or later rebroadcasts on CSPAN, to get a better idea of what's said. I think the VP is important in general (since he could end up the president), and especially since I think our current VP is the real engine behind the administration, I'm very interested in what he has to say.

  • #2
    Re: The Debates: Vice Presidential Candidates

    I devoutly hope that Mr. Edwards will pointedly ask Mr. Cheney the following questions:

    "Mr. V-P, in light of what your friend Mr. Rumsfeld said yesterday about there being no hard evidence of any ties between al-Qaeda, Osama bin Laden, and Saddam Hussein, why have you consistently insisted that there were such ties, even after the 9/11 Commission pointedly said otherwise?"

    "And, Mr. V-P, on another subject, had you in fact spoken to the President on 9/11 before issuing shoot-down orders to Air Force pilots, or had you assumed authority you had no right to take? Because the 9/11 Commission has said it has found no evidence to support your claim that you had spoken to Mr. Bush before issuing such orders."
    Last edited by Linkmeister; October 5, 2004, 02:47 PM. Reason: Egregious their/there error corrected.
    http://www.linkmeister.com/wordpress/

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    • #3
      Re: The Debates: Vice Presidential Candidates

      Edwards is trying to be scrappy, Cheney is trying to be steady and deliberate. I think Cheney's succeeding in his tone more than Edwards is.

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      • #4
        Re: The Debates: Vice Presidential Candidates

        Hey, what's with the sitting-around-a-table format? Cheney is leaning on his elbows and hunching his shoulders - makes him look kinda scary. (OK, I'm already scared of him so I guess I'm projecting.)

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        • #5
          Re: The Debates: Vice Presidential Candidates

          Originally posted by Glen Miyashiro
          Hey, what's with the sitting-around-a-table format? Cheney is leaning on his elbows and hunching his shoulders - makes him look kinda scary. (OK, I'm already scared of him so I guess I'm projecting.)
          That's one of the rules the Republicans insisted on. They think Edwards is used to talking on his feet in the Senate and in front of juries, and sitting at a table may cramp his style.
          http://www.linkmeister.com/wordpress/

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          • #6
            Re: The Debates: Vice Presidential Candidates

            One thing that strikes me is that Cheney doesn't hesitate to use direct, harsh language in his criticism of Kerry, and (from what I hear, anyway) addresses Edwards directly. Edwards is clearly holding back on the attack front (in line with how he's presented himself), trying to play diplomat, and therefore sadly seems to be flapping ineffectively against his opponent. Edwards is also reaching a bit further than Cheney in dragging the ticket's major talking points into every answer, even if it's barely relevant to the question.

            From what I'm reading in live commentary, Cheney's appearance, his general posture, is unneccessarily hostile, which might cloud what are otherwise - I admit - a few well-landed rhetorical punches so far.

            "It's like a bulldog versus a poodle, and it's not pretty," someone wrote. Ouch.

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            • #7
              Re: The Debates: Foreign Policy

              OK, so I watched VP Cheney and John Edwards debate tonight. This session was far more interesting than the Presidential "debate" last week! I thought it was pretty telling that maybe the "cuteness" factor is gonna weigh heavily in favor of the Kerry/Edwards ticket in the hearts and minds of many undecided women voters! There was John Edwards, all twinkly eyed and smiling broadly and next to him a rather taciturn Dick Cheney. Cheney was actually nonplussed when Edwards complimented him on his family (e.g., sort of in a roundabout way acknowledging that Cheney's daughter is gay). He couldn't even come back with anything more than a "thank you". Both are very experienced speakers, which is a credit both to them and their coaches.

              What was really interesting to me was on C-Span after the debate when people who had watched the the show phoned in with their opinions. At least 2 of the people said this debate clearly showed the differences in the tone of both tickets: Cheney waving the fear factor (if you don't re-elect our ticket, you can be assured that terrorism will strike again in this country) and Edwards waving the choice card (You have your choice. You can either have 4 more years of the same that you've had already, or you can go in a different direction). The people commented that Cheney was coming from a position of fear and Edwards was coming from one of hope. Will the country's decision on Nov. 2 be as black-and-white?

              Miulang
              "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

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              • #8
                Re: The Debates: Vice Presidential Candidates

                I think Edwards took more swings, but Cheney landed more punches. Given the completely different styles and tones we saw, I'd say the debate overall was a draw. True believers liked what they saw from their guy, undecideds didn't get too much new to work with.

                If you handicap Edwards for his youth and inexperience, I suppose you could say he "won." Of course, it's that handicap that the Democrats really need to overcome.

                Edwards, I felt, got a bit of the Kerry disease insofar as he couldn't answer a question without a flowery introduction, often leading him off track. He also brought up some of the right points - same-sex marriage, health care, and of course Halliburton - but gave up obvious chances to go in for the kill. His "nice" might have played well with the overly sensitive voter, but he didn't win any points among the "meat and potatoes" crowd.

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                • #9
                  Re: The Debates: Vice Presidential Candidates

                  Well now. During the debate, Mr. Cheney suggested that one could verify the facts about Halliburton at a site called FactCheck.com.

                  They know that if you go, for example, to factcheck.com, an independent Web site sponsored by the University of Pennsylvania, you can get the specific details with respect to Halliburton.
                  Try it. It's too funny. Talk about a rapid response!

                  He meant FactCheck.org, which is indeed run out of the University of Pennsylvania. Com versus Org: a common mistake.


                  (Crossposted from my blog. I found this little tidbit at Political Animal, Kevin Drum's blog at the Washington Monthly).
                  http://www.linkmeister.com/wordpress/

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                  • #10
                    The VEEP debate

                    After about half an hour, I said to myself, "I don't need to listen to this crap", but I weakened and tuned in again for the concluding half hour.

                    It was, I think, much closer than the Bush2-Kerry debate. The VP is far better at public speaking than his boss.

                    But there surely was a lot of bullsh*t from both sides.

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                    • #11
                      Re: The VEEP debate

                      Originally posted by Albert
                      After about half an hour, I said to myself, "I don't need to listen to this crap", but I weakened and tuned in again for the concluding half hour.

                      It was, I think, much closer than the Bush2-Kerry debate. The VP is far better at public speaking than his boss.

                      But there surely was a lot of bullsh*t from both sides.
                      And because Cheney is so much more eloquent than his boss, there is a rumor spreading around that Cheney is the one actually running the country!

                      Miulang
                      "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: The Debates: Vice Presidential Candidates

                        And because Cheney is so much more eloquent than his boss, there is a rumor spreading around that Cheney is the one actually running the country!
                        Was there any doubt? Actually, therein lies the danger of overplaying Cheney's performance yesterday. If you insist that he really did do that well, you've set an almost impossible standard in voters' minds when Bush and Kerry go at it again in their second debate.

                        I'm not a fan of the Bush/Cheney ticket, but I can be more objective than some might expect. I mean, Edwards could have definitely done better last night. And I do think Bush might do better in the "town hall" format (when he can do his "aw, shucks" regular Joe act) versus the dueling podiums style. But now he has to measure up against himself (Mr. Never Lost a Debate), Kerry, and his running mate.

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                        • #13
                          Re: The Debates: Vice Presidential Candidates

                          Does anybody else think that the reason Cheney declared in the debate that he aspired to no higher office than the one he has now is because he knows he's running the country and if the Republicans win again in November, that he gets to be king for another 4 years?

                          Miulang
                          "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: The Debates: Vice Presidential Candidates

                            I detest polls with miniscule sample numbers of less than 1,000 people, so once again I checked the poll on the main page at CNN.com. As of noon today, they had 223,969 responses to the question "Who won the VP debate?", as follows:

                            Edwards 64% 142,808
                            Cheney 36% 81,161

                            Practically 2 to 1 for Edwards, with close to a quarter-million people responding. Sounds like a resounding victory for Edwards to me.
                            .
                            .

                            That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

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                            • #15
                              Re: The Debates: Vice Presidential Candidates

                              "Edwards 64% 142,808
                              Cheney 36% 81,161"

                              That's absurd. It was much closer to 50-50. That 64-36 split would have made more sense in the first Bush2-Kerry debate (with Kerry at 64 or, in my opinion, even higher).

                              And now, sheez, we have another one of these marathons on Friday already?!

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