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  • Baby tossed on the road in Florida

    According to the CNN website, that incident about a baby being tossed from a slow moving car in Florida this week is false. It turns out that the person who reported the incident was the baby's mother.

    What's really ironic is that under Florida state law, if the mother just left the infant with the police without saying anything, everything would have been fine as far as any legal hassles are concerned.

  • #2
    Re: Baby tossed on the road in Florida

    I'm a recent 1st time grandmother! BABIES have always touched my heart...eh, no tell! I just wanted to know if there's a similar law here in Hawai'i. Babies and children are PRECIOUS!
    Be AKAMAI ~ KOKUA Hawai`i!
    Philippians 4:13 --- I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Baby tossed on the road in Florida

      That's a good question. "Safe harbor" or "safe haven" laws exist in most states, and I'm always intrigued when I hear stories about how they're implemented. One of the most amazing stories is that of Debi Faris-Sifelli. She dedicates her life to giving a proper resting place to babies who were abandoned or killed, a true tragedy since she does live in a "safe haven" state where distraught or overwhelmed parents could give up their children with amnesty.

      She was running out of money, running out of space... and then she won the lottery.


      Sadly, however, her work must continue.

      Hmm. According to this site, which may be out of date:
      In 1999, Texas was the first state to enact a safe haven law. Forty-one other states have followed suit, leaving only eight states which have no such law: Alaska, Hawaii, Massachusetts, Nebraska, New Hampshire, Vermont, Virginia, and Wyoming. The Wyoming legislature is currently considering legislation.
      I wonder if this has been taken up recently by our legislature? It might be a better use of their time than a "naps and snacks" law.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Baby tossed on the road in Florida

        Originally posted by pzarquon
        That's a good question. "Safe harbor" or "safe haven" laws exist in most states, and I'm always intrigued when I hear stories about how they're implemented. One of the most amazing stories is that of Debi Faris-Sifelli. She dedicates her life to giving a proper resting place to babies who were abandoned or killed, a true tragedy since she does live in a "safe haven" state where distraught or overwhelmed parents could give up their children with amnesty.

        She was running out of money, running out of space... and then she won the lottery.


        Sadly, however, her work must continue.

        Hmm. According to this site, which may be out of date:

        I wonder if this has been taken up recently by our legislature? It might be a better use of their time than a "naps and snacks" law.
        Chicken Skin about the LADY! As for our legislature (dummies) they just enacted a law about it being illegal to eat either a dog or cat. Yesterday, was Frogs, now this. I'm calling my REPRESENTATIVE/SENATOR'S office NOW, and a few other's whom I know!
        Be AKAMAI ~ KOKUA Hawai`i!
        Philippians 4:13 --- I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Baby tossed on the road in Florida

          Hmm. The two articles I linked are the same piece, just two different publications with different headlines. Sorry about that.

          Here's the official site for the Garden of Angels. According to the Fast Facts page, the above was correct:
          Forty-six other states have passed ‘safe haven’ laws. The states that DO NOT currently have this law passed are; Nebraska, Hawaii, Alaska and Vermont.
          The articles mention that advocacy is part of her mission is going to these non-participating states and lobbying for the laws to be drafted and enacted. I wonder if she could be enticed to visit our state Legislature? Someone who does the hard work she does could also probably benefit from some spiritual regeneration in Hawaii anyway.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Baby tossed on the road in Florida

            Originally posted by pzarquon
            "Forty-six other states have passed ‘safe haven’ laws. ".....

            duuuh.
            who thought this up!?
            safe haven is an obvious redundancy. "haven" means a place of safety.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Baby tossed on the road in Florida

              Why, you're right, Kimo! Boy, you put those sloppy infant rescuers in their place. That'll teach 'em!

              Seriously, though, "safe haven" is a phrase whose redundancy is quite often debated. A "haven" is supposed to be safe, but a lot of people say the phrase works when a protection is being offered as an alternative to a "haven" that isn't safe. Just ask the UN! So, in this context, one might say, "saving a baby's life by giving it away" is supposedto be The Right Thing To Do, but these laws are required just in case some overzealous prosecutor decides to go after an overwhelmed or distressed mother who left a baby with a church.

              I don't neccessarily agree that "safe haven" isn't reduntant, by the way, but it's an odd point to be quibbling about in a discussion about a far more important issue.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Baby tossed on the road in Florida

                Even if Hawai'i doesn't have a "safe haven" law in place, I doubt you're going to find many abandoned or unwanted babies in the 'aina because of the tradition of hanai.

                In the true sense of the word ohana, many relatives will adopt a child informally and raise it, rather than giving it up for adoption or abandoning it. I think the kanaka maoli, while "poorer than most" in the economic sense, have a much richer family life because they take care of all their keiki. One of the most beautiful things about the people of Hawaii is when you hear about hana'i children and "calabash cousins."

                Miulang
                "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

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                • #9
                  Re: Baby tossed on the road in Florida

                  I don't know if I'd go as far as attributing it to Hawaiian cultural mores, but you do make a good point. Compared to Los Angeles and New York, finding a baby in a hotel dumpster is a prettyrare occurrance out here.

                  It may also have a lot to do, of course, with a more accepting attitude toward sex education, birth control, and abortion. I mean, Hawaii is conservative, sure, but it ain't Utah.

                  Thing is, like the debate over a newly resurfaced bill to ban the selling of dogs or cats for food (which is a whole 'nother thread, if someone wants to tackle it), the question is, do we have to have a problem before investing time and energy to address it? In other words, will we have to wait until the next abandoned baby to embrace a movement to enact a "safe haven" law here?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Baby tossed on the road in Florida

                    Originally posted by pzarquon
                    Why, you're right, Kimo! Boy, you put those sloppy infant rescuers in their place. That'll teach 'em!

                    well, I believe nothing will teach anyone on either side of that debacle...
                    I will also point out that if they really need it, they can go even further and should seek refuge at the "secure protected anonymous defended remote safe haven security bunker sheltering shelter" which is an updated format (for those that didn't think 'safe haven' conveyed it..) that guarantees a mother who does not want her child (this is one weird concept) can dispose of it without fear of reprisal.


                    You want me to try to join in on the discussion, pzarq?
                    Just the idea of something called "safe haven".... created for 'parents' who decide they can't handle it, and we offer them an acceptable legal supportive place to enable them to dispose of... walk away from their children with amnesty.
                    nooooononono. I don't find myself able to discuss this in a levelheaded fashion.
                    Except to say, yes, because of our concept of hanai ohana...etc. this thing would not happen here. unless the icehead is frosted outta their thick skull. Then NO safe haven concept goin be any good.
                    Last edited by kimo55; February 11, 2005, 08:31 PM.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Baby tossed on the road in Florida

                      Which is worse? Having an abortion or having to give up/abandon a baby? I heard on the radio a couple of weeks ago a psychologist who had interviewed women who had done both. She said she was quite startled to hear a lot of the women say it was more traumatic to give up a baby than to have an abortion.

                      The reason? There's a definite conclusion to the dilemma when you have an abortion (although there probably is some residual guilt, if you happen to be the religious type), but when you give up a child for adoption, you live with the guilt forever because it's an admission that you couldn't take care of it (for whatever reason). And then there's the fear that somewhere down the road (unless it was an "open" adoption) that your child will resurface years later and want to know why you abandoned him/her. The liberals would say that wasn't true, the woman would feel good because she was giving the child an opportunity for a better life, but according to this woman psychologist, it's not true for a certain percentage of women who have been in this situation.

                      Miulang
                      "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Baby tossed on the road in Florida

                        There are many reasons why women may do either of the two, but if they weren't rape...why spread their legs and have unprotective sex in the first place? A child doesn't ask to be born. A fetus is still a human being.
                        Be AKAMAI ~ KOKUA Hawai`i!
                        Philippians 4:13 --- I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Baby tossed on the road in Florida

                          At about the same time as the Florida case was happening, there was another incident where a pregnant woman was attacked by another woman who wanted her unborn child as her own. This mentally deranged woman had already told people around her that she was pregnant and expecting any day.
                          In this case, however, unlike the case in Missouri a couple of months ago, the pregnant woman was successful in fending off her attacker and actually killed her.


                          Miulang

                          http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/02/12/wom....ap/index.html
                          "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Baby tossed on the road in Florida

                            We're sorry to report that Hawaii is one of only four states that does not have a Baby Safe Haven law, allowing a scared and distraught young Mom to safely surrender a newborn baby to personnel at a fire of police station, or hospital. Nebraska, Alaska and Vermont are the only other three with Nebraska and Vermont having bills before their legislature. Massachusetts is the most recent state, and now the population base in the US covered by Baby Safe Haven laws is 99% of the population.
                            The Hawaii legislature passed a good Baby Safe Haven law two years ago, and Gov. Lingle vetoed it based on a "report" by a Massachusetts group. That paper was filed with completely false information on the very successful laws across the country, and the group admitted that they never once made a single phone call, or wrote a letter, to the state agencies who had jurisdictional authority over their own Baby Safe Haven laws.
                            So far well over 300 newborns have been safely surrendered under the 46 states with Baby Safe Haven laws, with some small population states having no surrenderings at all, but glad they have the law in case of a crisis by a woman who may decide to abandon.
                            Honolulu county could be approached for a ballot question on the 2006 ballot, it could force the issue before a tragedy happens. Does anyone have an interest?
                            Or you could approach your state legislator to refile the bill, and override the Gov. veto.
                            Here's a web site to visit for us here in New England:
                            http://babysafehavenyes.org
                            Jean & Mike

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