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  • overpopulation and overdevelopment

    from the "duuuh whut shud we do?!" file

    a.k.a; government without a clue.


    Rod Haraga transportation director in his latest lip service offerings, brings up a few quick fixes for congestion from Hawaii Kai to honoruru.

    just like the light rail question. Anything will be just a band aid and nothing more. Until they disallow overbuilding.
    Hawaii Kai overdevelopment has seen rat traps built 2 stories above the permitted height. creating a tunnel effect on the streets. NO setbacks from the sidewalk. Too much development with homes a few feet from each other, paving over each and every empty bit of raw land. Shuler Homes committed an abhorrent travesty when they chopped up the side of a hill at the end of Keahole. (You may witness the carnage coming over the hill to Hawaii kai proper from Kalama valley)
    This should NEVER be allowed here in Hawaii.
    And they wonder why boulders are loosened and come tumbling down into homes built right up against cliffs. Duuuh!
    Henry Kaiser had this area masterplanned. Now I was never a fan of his displacing farmers and original residents of this valley, but... now that he developed Hawaii kai, at least he had a decent view and plan of spreading out the population so this community had breathing room... All that is gone ta hell. And lately, of course, greed takes over (in every arena, in every area on Hawaii) and Hawaii kai has become another overbuilt Wilshire blvd. with TOO many haole transplants from L.A. zooming around like they are on the mainland.
    (saw an ad for enterprise honolulu in today's paper. Their question is:
    "Will Hawaii's future belong to all of us?" and this, being a business oriented, pro development web site, of course, the appropriation of the future of Hawaii from its original inhabitants; kanaka maoli, continues!)

    As I mentioned before, too many 35 story condo buildings are coming up in Honolulu. This of course, overtaxes our decrepit substandard infrastructure and adds to the traffic problem, while every now and then the citizenry and politicians whine about what the next little incredibly ineffective just-for-show temporary fix we can think up.

    puuuuh THEtic!

  • #2
    Saving & Preserving Paradise

    Greetings everyone!

    I know these might be might be stupid questions (ya, ya...we've all heard the "there are no stupid questions" speech. But, there are stupid questions!! LOL) but, I have to ask them.

    These things popped into the old noggin late last night and the bothered me quite a bit.

    What provisions have been made to curb construction on the islands? From what I'm reading....it sounds like at least some areas had rules regarding size of structures, perimeters and how they interacted with the landscape. Well, it doesn't look to me like some of that construction has abided by the rules set down.

    It also looks like some of the older homes and businesses (more environmentally friendly, perhaps) are threatened by newer, bigger "concrete jungle" development. The big money wants to take over what exists. What prevents them from doing this?

    Also...when does the building stop? I have a new nightmare...of Hawaii turning into a big Pacific city. A futuristic view of clumps of steel and concrete in the middle of the pacific..with only the most inhospitable peaks poking through the ugly skyline!!! ARGH!!

    Have limitations been placed on how much can be developed? If not...WHY NOT? AND, is anyone doing anything about it? Can anything be done?

    If what happens up here on the mainland is any guide...if controls aren't put into place...and quick...eventually there won't be a heckuva lot left of paradise. Oh, I'm sure SOMETHING would be left...but, not even vaguely resembling what is untouched right now. I would hate for that to happen...cheap tenament apartments dotting the skyline...big corporations setting their headquarters there..... sigh! Money & greed is the culprit up here...I would have to assume it is the very same for Hawaii. Help me out here...am I exaggerating and blowing things out of proportion?


    Missouri Mama

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    • #3
      Re: Saving & Preserving Paradise

      Originally posted by Missouri Mama
      Well, it doesn't look to me like some of that construction has abided by the rules set down.

      hands are greased and as in the instance of no setbacks with the ratraps in Hawaii kai, there is corruption at almost all levels. These homes were permitted for i think about 1.5 stories and now they are 3 and four stories. Setback requirements say about 25 feet from road, but some front doors opened right up at a bus stop requiring the kiosk to be moved to an area between buildings. Even tho the bus stop is ON... the sidewalk. So, yea, there are requirements, but no one adheres, when there is money to be made. and no accountability.

      The big money wants to take over what exists. What prevents them from doing this?
      nothing. when there is money to be made, there is no stopping development.

      Also...when does the building stop? I have a new nightmare...of Hawaii turning into a big Pacific city.
      It is this already. Too many people i meet, visitors, say "this place is too overbuilt. Looks too much like miami, or wilshire. can get this junk at the high end boutique shops anywhere. won't be coming back again. It is no longer Hawaii"
      Even high up in local govmt, this is admitted to be a third world country; with its incredible high degree of internal fraud and corruption, incredible substandard infrastructure, intelligence-insulting excuse making by the ex city magnager, and transportation dept spokespersons...our tax dollars squandered...
      We must be the laughing stock of the nation, the way this state, city and county are run.
      And it is being run right into the ground and what is NOT being run into the ground is being overpriced to the degree the original inhabitants of these islands can't even afford to live here!
      American laws and real estate standards are transplanted here and we see "natives" get priced right out of their old neigborhoods with the speculation, overbuilding, property taxes rising...

      so sad, but that is the way of america. And to think the majority of islanders never wanted this. Tough luck. too bad. If someone can make a buck, no matter how it destroys Hawaii, they apparently have a right.
      Not pono?
      Not ethical?
      basically morally corrupt?
      yes on all counts.
      but who cares, They can relocate here and bring THEIR culture here with them.
      as we watch the Hawaiian culture acceleratingly disappear.
      They have a legal right to buy and resell at auction a year later at three times the price. and to built high end homes and high gloss strip malls all over our islands.

      see;
      http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showthread.php?t=2662


      *
      Last edited by kimo55; March 22, 2005, 07:54 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Saving & Preserving Paradise

        Unfortunately, if you seek a paradise away from ramapant development, Hawai'i isn't where you're going to find it. With the exception of the island of Moloka'i, everywhere else, as Kimo has said, has encouraged development, some in better ways than others, but mostly what has resulted is crowded roads and ridiculously high real estate costs to go along with the higher cost of living because almost everything has to be shipped from the Mainland. Even though some County governments are now trying to develop long range plans to limit future growth, that's like closing the barn door after the horses have escaped. Are they really going to tear down the skyscrapers and replace them with the kinds of architecture that Kimo and I lament the passing of with each new real estate development announcement? Dubious.

        On Moloka'i, the local people have consistently chosen a slower lifestyle over the lure of "Californication"...they have resisted attempts by the cruise lines to establish a port of call on the island, they valiantly (but unsuccessfully) tried to stop one Mainland landowner (John McAfee) from selling off over 1,000 acres of land because it was too much of a hassle for him to develop it (although he made more than double the profit from the sale as it cost him just a mere 1 1/2 years previously).

        They will probably never have a Costco or a Walmart on that island, and that's just fine with them. If you want to know what Hawai'i was, do some research on Moloka'i. If you truly want to get away from overdevelopment, that's about the only place in Hawai'i where you will find it.

        Miulang
        "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Saving & Preserving Paradise

          Thanks everyone for the replies. Man, am I naive...moreso than I thought. This is upsetting to me....I can't even imagine what it must be like for all of you.

          Man.

          Another question, and I realize I really don't "have a clue" (my words) as to what all is going on and the extent...and the realities associated with it...please humor me.

          Now this may be like tossing rocks at a sherman tank but, is it possible to try and buy up the land yourselves? Now don't get mad at me...bear with me here for a sec. I understand now that the land was taken illegally (thanks for those links Kimo..that's my conclusion on it so far) it is an insult (to say the least) to even suggest having to buy back something that was once yours. BUT, that seems to be where it stands right now (unless I'm missing something...and I probably am). You guys would need some powerful and big dollar support to pull this off ...esp. considering the current conditions & trends (wow...didn't know it was that bad...thanks KIMO on the perspective about neighborhoods, taxes & all)

          If I understand, the Akaka legislation would give back land to native Hawaiians right (how much I wonder)? Beyond that...Are there any other coalitions that have additionally been started? Groups formed with the express goal of buying up lands on the behalf of and for Native Hawaiians. Does such a thing exist? Could it? It seems almost like the only way to stop ....or rather preserve anything. I know I may be completely unrealistic here...I can read about things from where I am at...but, it's completely different than living in Hawaii...truly understanding. Actually doing what I'm suggesting...may not be possible, I guess....it's easy to make suggestions when one doesn't completely grasp what's going on.

          Your comments?

          MM

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Saving & Preserving Paradise

            Darn.

            Disregard my previous post guys/gals...it went way beyond naivety, I think. More of the situation is sinking in. I should know better about blurting something before researching & thinking about it thoroughly. I still have hope though....maybe an ill-placed & unrealistic hope...but, hope nonetheless.

            Just finished reading that link you provided Kimo. Wow. Quite an eye-opener for sure. Definitely not something we hear about. Looks like the tourism industry is doing a real good job at promoting the "right" image, eh?
            Last edited by Missouri Mama; March 22, 2005, 01:08 PM.

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            • #7
              Re: Saving & Preserving Paradise

              would it be possible for me to view the link as well?
              There is not a day I do not dream about The Islands...

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Saving & Preserving Paradise

                Much of the land is leasehold, which means some family or corporation owns it and you just rent the land and put up your house. Most leases run at least 99 years, but if the landowner decides to put the land to a different use, you are SOL with a house but no land to put it on!

                If you're planning to buy a house in Hawai'i, you have to make sure you're buying a "fee simple" property.

                In all the places I have lived, Hawai'i was the only place I have ever encountered this situation. Everywhere else, when you buy a house, you also own the land beneath it.

                Miulang
                "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                Comment


                • #9
                  overpopulation and overdevelopment

                  clueless journalists, dumb politicians... or is that a redundancy?

                  today's headlines:

                  "Rush-hour drive time could double by 2030
                  If nothing is done to improve O'ahu's transportation network...."
                  By Mike Leidemann

                  duuuh.
                  It's the overpopulating and overdevelopment of the island, ya idjits! Allow tower condo buildings to be erected everywhere, as is happening, and traffic will always be a problem. Forget bandaids like more lanes, lite-rail, doubledecker hiways.
                  Oahu is not "growing". It is a finite land mass with finite resources that are being depleted and a very fragile infrastructure that cannot take the already overpopulated condition.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: clueless journalists, dumb politicians...

                    Originally posted by kimo55
                    ...or is that a redundancy?

                    today's headlines:

                    "Rush-hour drive time could double by 2030
                    If nothing is done to improve O'ahu's transportation network...."
                    By Mike Leidemann

                    duuuh.
                    It's the overpopulating and overdevelopment of the island, ya idjits! Allow tower condo buildings to be erected everywhere, as is happening, and traffic will always be a problem. Forget bandaids like more lanes, lite-rail, doubledecker hiways.
                    Oahu is not "growing". It is a finite land mass with finite resources that are being depleted and a very fragile infrastructure that cannot take the already overpopulated condition.
                    It's OK if they build "up", but not "out". And if they build more high density buildings they should be multiuse (retail and residential). They have to control the numbers of cars of those residents. They can do that by making sure each building has retail stores on the ground floor or make those urban neighborhoods the kinds of places that don't require people to need cars to get from point A to point B. They can restrict the number of parking spaces. If you could work, do all your grocery shopping, banking, eat at a restaurant, buy clothes, etc. in your neighborhood or within a short bus ride, how often would you need to use your car to go anywhere?

                    Kinda ironic that these "urban villages" (and we have some up here now) are going back to a time when small businesses were in your neighborhood so you never really needed to go far for anything.

                    I live in an urban village of Greenwood, which is 15 miles north of Seattle. Within my own little community, I have a post office, a library, at least 4 schools, multiple banks, a lot of restaurants, 4 supermarkets, a department store (not WM), 3 drug stores, a community playhouse, a couple of videostores, all within walking distance. The only thing we don't have are commercial theaters...and who needs those anymore?

                    The current mentality of the American consumer is to live out in the hinterlands where there's wide open spaces so you have to get in your car to drive to WM!



                    Miulang
                    "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: clueless journalists, dumb politicians...

                      Originally posted by Miulang
                      It's OK if they build "up", but not "out".

                      out or up. no matter.
                      It's all helping to destroy the island. Promote adding to the population, either up or out and problems increase and nothing will help it.
                      apparently 'the powers that be' want our island to resemble a big city on the mainland.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: clueless journalists, dumb politicians...

                        Originally posted by kimo55
                        out or up. no matter.
                        It's all helping to destroy the island. Promote adding to the population, either up or out and problems increase and nothing will help it.
                        apparently 'the powers that be' want our island to resemble a big city on the mainland.
                        If you can't stop 'em at da border (like Oregon did for a little while), they all have to live someplace. Might as well protect the open space that does still exist from development but still provide housing for the immigrants. And if you do that, you might as well build an environment that crams 'em all together like sardines so you eventually stop in the inflow (but then again, you'd have lots of people jumping ship, too).

                        Miulang
                        "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: clueless journalists, dumb politicians...

                          as for Waikiki, it is a lost cause. A city no longer resembling anything in Hawaii. No more of the supposed "sense of place". lewers streets as i said... the last old style area with any character, is being replaced with an antiseptic high end shopping dining and lodging development, with some kinda elevated walkways. yea. that's island style.
                          ( no longer do we or visitors have a choice to visit the cool old style nautical/tropical polynesian lanai dining, and something affordable to the wallet or purse. R.I.P. davey jones Locker, Longboard bar, Chuck's Old Hawaii steakhouse, Waikiki broiler. RIP, cool view of eclectic lowlevel buildings with bamboo, thatch, old wood, open lanais, rattan furniture.)

                          Developers say we need to compete with Maui. So any semblance of lowlevel old style architecture abundant in foliage is being destroyed. Many people come here to get away form the crap they can find in any other resort town in the world. They also come here for the old Hawaii charm. many budget travellers come here in big numbers, These people will no longer visit and I dunno what will replace them; maybe one high end visitor to every three budget traveller?
                          greed and myopia wins out again.
                          Last edited by kimo55; April 5, 2005, 09:22 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: clueless journalists, dumb politicians...

                            Originally posted by Miulang
                            Might as well protect the open space that does still exist from development but still provide housing for the immigrants.

                            "woulda shoulda coulda";
                            Moratorium on building.
                            height limits to 'towers".
                            landmark, protective status on more old builldings and businesses.
                            limit on number of "towers" per sq. mile.
                            strict design guidelines.
                            (as in Santa Barbara).

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: clueless journalists, dumb politicians...

                              If you do those things, you won't be able to compete with Maui! And Maui doesn't even have public transportation yet!

                              Miulang
                              "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                              Comment

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